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Bore Out Shaft for Tip-Weight Insertion


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#1 A.Princey

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 07:56 PM

I am not finding a ton of good advice on installation of tip weights whose stems are slightly larger diameter than the inner diameter of the shaft. Is it ok to slowly bore out the inner diameter of the tip to accommodate the wider weight? I am referring to .335 graphite wood shafts FWIW.

We're talking like 1/64" in width difference. I'm just wondering if the shaft will retain its integrity.

Edited by A.Princey, 15 May 2018 - 10:37 PM.

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#2 Valtiel

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 08:08 PM

I'd wait for the experts to chime in, but I feel like you'd be playing with fire at that point. You're probably far better off sanding/grinding down the weight to fit.
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#3 tobybear

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 08:10 PM

Its possible, but I would suggest taking that size off of the tip weight instead of the shaft.

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#4 Nessism

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 08:20 PM

1/64" shouldn't hurt anything.  Drill minimum depth necessary.
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#5 Bad9

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 08:24 PM

I have done it with Xcaliber iron and wood shafts. No issues and some have been in use for 4-5 years. I drilled the bare minimum to get them to fit.

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#6 A.Princey

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 08:30 PM

Hmmmm.... maybe I'll look for some copper gauge wire or hell, just a plain nail to do the job. That's basically all this tip weight is anyway! Many diameter and length nails to choose from. The grinding of the stem is going to be a TON of work to get it well-fitted.
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#7 Hack Daddy

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 12:04 AM

View PostA.Princey, on 13 May 2018 - 08:30 PM, said:

Hmmmm.... maybe I'll look for some copper gauge wire or hell, just a plain nail to do the job. That's basically all this tip weight is anyway! Many diameter and length nails to choose from. The grinding of the stem is going to be a TON of work to get it well-fitted.

Matrix recommends using a drill bit to enlarge shafts for tip weights. SOP.
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#8 A.Princey

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 12:16 AM

View PostHack Daddy, on 14 May 2018 - 12:04 AM, said:

View PostA.Princey, on 13 May 2018 - 08:30 PM, said:

Hmmmm.... maybe I'll look for some copper gauge wire or hell, just a plain nail to do the job. That's basically all this tip weight is anyway! Many diameter and length nails to choose from. The grinding of the stem is going to be a TON of work to get it well-fitted.

Matrix recommends using a drill bit to enlarge shafts for tip weights. SOP.
Do you have posted literature that speaks to this reality or is it something you remember reading somewhere? I am not doubting your knowledge, I'd really just like to see it for myself, mainly because the nail/wire idea is much more appealing at this point.
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#9 Stuart G.

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 03:41 AM

View PostA.Princey, on 13 May 2018 - 07:56 PM, said:

I am not finding a ton of good advice on installation of tip weights whose stems are slightly larger diameter than the inner diameter of the shaft. Is it ok to slowly bore out the inner diameter of the tip to accommodate the wider weight?

We're talking like 1/64" in width difference. I'm just wondering if the shaft will retain its integrity.

Yes - that little will be no problem at all.  I've gone many times to an 11/64" (ID increased by about 3/64") drill bit for those brass tip weights for graphite (Billy Bob's or Hireko).  The only thing you have to worry about is potential damage from an overheated drill bit - so don't try to take on too much at once or too fast.

Edited by Stuart G., 14 May 2018 - 03:43 AM.


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#10 A.Princey

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 07:44 AM

Cool, thanks for the added reassurance. Some things about shafts are fairly intuitive/common sense, but this isn't one of them.

I'll send you the bill when my driver head sails down the fairway!!!! I kid, I kid....

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#11 wkuo3

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 08:15 AM

Always modify the tip weight before you entertain modify the shaft tip.

Not recommended for golfers have a higher swing speed and/or a steeper attack angle.  Many had reduced the shaft tip diameter to fit a .370 graphite into a .355 hosel, and it's only 1/4" - 1/2" at best.  I'd assuming most graphite shaft are being used by golfers with just moderate swing speed..

I had seen modified brass inserts from a variety of sources when I pulled the shaft for guys.  There were modified brass tip from screws, nails and all sorts of other kinds.  But they're usually not adding more than 2-5 gm. at best because of the density of the metal is not quite as tungsten or lead could achieve, tungsten powder mixed with a little epoxy will do the trick most of the time, just need to be drilled out if wish to remove it later.

Lead tip weight made for .370 into a tapered .355 hosel just need to be shaven off a little with a sharp utility knife ( put the tip weight in a vice before you do that ), simple but will also remove a little weight from the tip weight when shaving it thinner.  No issue if you mix the shaving with a little epoxy and put the mixture in the tip before the weight goes in.

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#12 Stuart G.

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 08:25 AM

View PostA.Princey, on 14 May 2018 - 07:44 AM, said:

Cool, thanks for the added reassurance. Some things about shafts are fairly intuitive/common sense, but this isn't one of them.

I agree it's not and to be honest even I wasn't sure the first time I did it (to my own shafts) despite the theory being sound.  But they held up really well despite some strong abuse (lots of range work with a steep swing on hard mats).

Now, I wouldn't pretend to know what the actual limit is for how far you can open up the ID (one of these days I'll write to Aldila or UST CS and see what they have to say about that)  - but I have noticed that all the shafts I've done this to have had quite a bit of the inner most layer just being epoxy or paint in some cases (a byproduct of the manufacturing process) and not seen any actual graphite come out when opening up the ID's. So a very good guideline is that as long as it's only epoxy being removed, then I wouldn't worry too much about the integrity.   The tensile strength comes from graphite, not the epoxy.   It's when you start cutting out graphite that you need to need to start being concerned.

Although I should add, my use of the 11/64" bit and removing up to 3/64" (for those brass tip weights) has been limited to graphite iron shafts (.355 tp).   And with a tight fit, the brass can actually add to the strength (it's stronger then the graphite it's replacing). But I've also used those tungsten/rubber weights (no added strength) in .335 wood shafts and  taking down a .335 tip shaft only 1/64" shouldn't be a problem regardless of what type of tip weight is used.


View PostA.Princey, on 14 May 2018 - 07:44 AM, said:

I'll send you the bill when my driver head sails down the fairway!!!!

No problem - I'll happily give you 100% refund of all my consulting fees :taunt:

Edited by Stuart G., 14 May 2018 - 08:36 AM.


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#13 Hack Daddy

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 01:35 PM

View PostA.Princey, on 14 May 2018 - 12:16 AM, said:

View PostHack Daddy, on 14 May 2018 - 12:04 AM, said:

View PostA.Princey, on 13 May 2018 - 08:30 PM, said:

Hmmmm.... maybe I'll look for some copper gauge wire or hell, just a plain nail to do the job. That's basically all this tip weight is anyway! Many diameter and length nails to choose from. The grinding of the stem is going to be a TON of work to get it well-fitted.

Matrix recommends using a drill bit to enlarge shafts for tip weights. SOP.
Do you have posted literature that speaks to this reality or is it something you remember reading somewhere? I am not doubting your knowledge, I'd really just like to see it for myself, mainly because the nail/wire idea is much more appealing at this point.

Pick up the phone and call matrix tech. Or call any quality, well respected club fitter in your area. They (we've) all done it based on recommendations from the OEMs.
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#14 Bad9

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 06:20 PM

View PostHack Daddy, on 14 May 2018 - 01:35 PM, said:

View PostA.Princey, on 14 May 2018 - 12:16 AM, said:

View PostHack Daddy, on 14 May 2018 - 12:04 AM, said:

View PostA.Princey, on 13 May 2018 - 08:30 PM, said:

Hmmmm.... maybe I'll look for some copper gauge wire or hell, just a plain nail to do the job. That's basically all this tip weight is anyway! Many diameter and length nails to choose from. The grinding of the stem is going to be a TON of work to get it well-fitted.

Matrix recommends using a drill bit to enlarge shafts for tip weights. SOP.
Do you have posted literature that speaks to this reality or is it something you remember reading somewhere? I am not doubting your knowledge, I'd really just like to see it for myself, mainly because the nail/wire idea is much more appealing at this point.

Pick up the phone and call matrix tech. Or call any quality, well respected club fitter in your area. They (we've) all done it based on recommendations from the OEMs.

I get why someone might question me but jeez if Stuart says its ok you can be pretty sure it is.
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#15 ChipNRun

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 07:54 PM

View Postwkuo3, on 14 May 2018 - 08:15 AM, said:

Always modify the tip weight before you entertain modifying the shaft tip. ...

Sanding the tip weight is safer - and easier - than boring out hosel.

Also, the heavier the tip weight, the more likely you are to introduce a draw bias into the club. Too much weight slows the hosel and lets a lighter toe rotate shut faster.

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#16 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 08:42 PM

View PostChipNRun, on 14 May 2018 - 07:54 PM, said:

View Postwkuo3, on 14 May 2018 - 08:15 AM, said:

Always modify the tip weight before you entertain modifying the shaft tip. ...

Sanding the tip weight is safer - and easier - than boring out hosel.

Also, the heavier the tip weight, the more likely you are to introduce a draw bias into the club. Too much weight slows the hosel and lets a lighter toe rotate shut faster.

He’s not boring out the hosel.  He’s drilling out the inside of the graphite shaft to accept the weight.

And whoever told you the second paragraph is smoking too much ganja.  100% fallacy.
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#17 Valtiel

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 08:58 PM

Thanks again to Stuart for adding more knowledge to the forum!

View PostChipNRun, on 14 May 2018 - 07:54 PM, said:

View Postwkuo3, on 14 May 2018 - 08:15 AM, said:

Always modify the tip weight before you entertain modifying the shaft tip. ...

Sanding the tip weight is safer - and easier - than boring out hosel.

Also, the heavier the tip weight, the more likely you are to introduce a draw bias into the club. Too much weight slows the hosel and lets a lighter toe rotate shut faster.

While I believe this is technically a sound concept, the amount of weight necessary in that location to make any appreciable change is more than you'd ever like put in a shaft tip.
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#18 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 09:43 PM

View PostValtiel, on 14 May 2018 - 08:58 PM, said:

Thanks again to Stuart for adding more knowledge to the forum!

View PostChipNRun, on 14 May 2018 - 07:54 PM, said:

View Postwkuo3, on 14 May 2018 - 08:15 AM, said:

Always modify the tip weight before you entertain modifying the shaft tip. ...

Sanding the tip weight is safer - and easier - than boring out hosel.

Also, the heavier the tip weight, the more likely you are to introduce a draw bias into the club. Too much weight slows the hosel and lets a lighter toe rotate shut faster.

While I believe this is technically a sound concept, the amount of weight necessary in that location to make any appreciable change is more than you'd ever like put in a shaft tip.

A large amount  of weight added in the heel area of a wood or hybrid absolutely creates draw bias by inducing more gear effect in the club. We see this in many modern heads with “ draw biased” designs.   Gear effect is imparted by the shape of the head and the curvature of the face, otherwise known as bulge.  (Roll is the vertical component in face curvature.)

Irons do not have bulge and have no significant depth to them to create a pivoting point for them to rotate around.  Adding 10 grams of weight to the hosel, or inside the shaft tip,  therefore has way to induce draw bias in an iron.  The idea that more weight “slows down the hosel and lets the lighter toe rotate shut faster is simply incorrect.  This does not happen.

The one thing adding a large amount of weight to the shaft tip will do is cause the sweet spot, or center of gravity,  to migrate ever so slightly toward the hosel and a hair higher. It is incredibly minute, but it does occur. I personally believe that extremely sensitive golfers can feel this COG migration by sensing that dead center strikes feel a bit less perfect than they should.

This is why I personally never add more than 4 grams of tip weight.  I only use tip weights for fine tuning up to 2 SW points.  Any more weight goes on the blade as lead tape.  Just my preference.  I know many have no issue using more tip weight.  I just won’t. Using 10 grams as is being discussed here is unthinkable to me.

Edited by Jagpilotohio, 14 May 2018 - 09:47 PM.

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#19 Valtiel

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 12:59 AM

View PostJagpilotohio, on 14 May 2018 - 09:43 PM, said:

View PostValtiel, on 14 May 2018 - 08:58 PM, said:

Thanks again to Stuart for adding more knowledge to the forum!

View PostChipNRun, on 14 May 2018 - 07:54 PM, said:

View Postwkuo3, on 14 May 2018 - 08:15 AM, said:

Always modify the tip weight before you entertain modifying the shaft tip. ...

Sanding the tip weight is safer - and easier - than boring out hosel.

Also, the heavier the tip weight, the more likely you are to introduce a draw bias into the club. Too much weight slows the hosel and lets a lighter toe rotate shut faster.

While I believe this is technically a sound concept, the amount of weight necessary in that location to make any appreciable change is more than you'd ever like put in a shaft tip.

A large amount  of weight added in the heel area of a wood or hybrid absolutely creates draw bias by inducing more gear effect in the club. We see this in many modern heads with " draw biased" designs.   Gear effect is imparted by the shape of the head and the curvature of the face, otherwise known as bulge.  (Roll is the vertical component in face curvature.)

Irons do not have bulge and have no significant depth to them to create a pivoting point for them to rotate around.  Adding 10 grams of weight to the hosel, or inside the shaft tip,  therefore has way to induce draw bias in an iron.  The idea that more weight "slows down the hosel and lets the lighter toe rotate shut faster is simply incorrect.  This does not happen.

The one thing adding a large amount of weight to the shaft tip will do is cause the sweet spot, or center of gravity,  to migrate ever so slightly toward the hosel and a hair higher. It is incredibly minute, but it does occur. I personally believe that extremely sensitive golfers can feel this COG migration by sensing that dead center strikes feel a bit less perfect than they should.

This is why I personally never add more than 4 grams of tip weight.  I only use tip weights for fine tuning up to 2 SW points.  Any more weight goes on the blade as lead tape.  Just my preference.  I know many have no issue using more tip weight.  I just won't. Using 10 grams as is being discussed here is unthinkable to me.

Ah I see, you were addressing the "slows the hosel/lighter toe" portion. I'm familiar with the other portions you mentioned re: irons and CG vs Woods with bulge. I believe Wishon said something to the effect that it would take 16+ grams to move the sweet spot of an iron in any measurable way but i'm not 100% sure that was the number he mentioned. I do remember it was something extremely high though.
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#20 Stuart G.

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 03:46 AM

View PostJagpilotohio, on 14 May 2018 - 09:43 PM, said:

Gear effect is imparted by the shape of the head and the curvature of the face, otherwise known as bulge.  (Roll is the vertical component in face curvature.)

Gear effect really has nothing to do with bulge and roll.  Gear effect is entirely about the relative location of impact with respect to the rearward c.g. of the club and the resulting twisting motion of the club because of that offset impact (and the resulting spin transferred to the ball from that twist). It's actually the other way around.  Bulge and roll exist because of and as a way to help counter the gear affect.  But it's not even a direct "fix", it's actually indirect as it's a directional (horizontal launch angle) "correction" to what's really a spin "problem".

And irons don't have bulge and roll because they don't' have enough of a rearward c.g. to have any appreciable gear effect.


View PostJagpilotohio, on 14 May 2018 - 09:43 PM, said:

Irons do not have bulge and have no significant depth to them to create a pivoting point for them to rotate around.  Adding 10 grams of weight to the hosel, or inside the shaft tip,  therefore has way to induce draw bias in an iron.  The idea that more weight "slows down the hosel and lets the lighter toe rotate shut faster is simply incorrect.  This does not happen.

Now you have me curious.  So if it doesn't come from gear effect and it doesn't come from an MOI change (affecting the ability to impart face rotation), then where do you think the draw bias does come from?

Edited by Stuart G., 17 May 2018 - 07:28 AM.


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#21 Valtiel

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 04:36 AM

View PostStuart G., on 15 May 2018 - 03:46 AM, said:

Gear effect really has nothing to do with bulge and roll.  Gear effect is entirely about the relative location impact location with respect to the rearward c.g. of the club and the resulting twisting motion of the club because of that offset impact (and the resulting spin transferred to the ball from that twist). It's actually the other way around.  Bulge and roll exist because of and as a way to help counter the gear affect.  But it's not even a direct "fix", it's actually indirect as it's a directional (horizontal launch angle) "correction" to what's really a spin "problem".


This is something I always curious about. What is it about moving CG forward or backwards that impacts directionality e.g. forward CG drivers having the reputation of being less forgiving and "more crooked"? Does the CG moving forward decrease gear effect and thus cause bulge and roll to actually hurt you on mishits? I can't imagine that is it otherwise it would be a fairly easy problem to solve...

Also regarding your question for Jagpilotohio, I think he meant to say "has NO way to induce draw bias".

Edited by Valtiel, 15 May 2018 - 04:39 AM.

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#22 Stuart G.

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 05:59 AM

View PostValtiel, on 15 May 2018 - 04:36 AM, said:

This is something I always curious about. What is it about moving CG forward or backwards that impacts directionality e.g. forward CG drivers having the reputation of being less forgiving and "more crooked"? Does the CG moving forward decrease gear effect and thus cause bulge and roll to actually hurt you on mishits? I can't imagine that is it otherwise it would be a fairly easy problem to solve...

The confusion might come from mixing up a couple of different concepts together.  There are two different more major contributing factor for gear effect.  The location of the c.g. (relative to the location of impact) and also the MOI of the club.

When we talk about different c.g. locations in a typical driver, we are generally talking about all drivers having a c.g. in a small little box that's < 1.5 cm in size front to back (and < 1 cm side-to-side).   In that context, the movement of the c.g. in that small volume only has a fairly small impact on the amount of gear effect relative to other things that are also changing.  That other significant change is the MOI of the club.   For Horizontal gear effect (MOI about the vertical axis through the head) the MOI of modern drivers can vary from the low-mid 3000 gm-cm^2 all the way up to a bit over 5000 gm-cm^2.   And that much of a change can have a noticeable impact on the amount of gear effect.

So to put it simply, forward C.G. drivers have the reputation for having more gear effect (being lower spinning but more unforgiving) not because of the c.g. location but because one of the typical consequences of that more forward and low c.g. is also a relatively low MOI.  And that change dominates when compared with the c.g. location movement.

Edited by Stuart G., 15 May 2018 - 06:57 AM.


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#23 Valtiel

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 06:59 AM

View PostStuart G., on 15 May 2018 - 05:59 AM, said:

View PostValtiel, on 15 May 2018 - 04:36 AM, said:

This is something I always curious about. What is it about moving CG forward or backwards that impacts directionality e.g. forward CG drivers having the reputation of being less forgiving and "more crooked"? Does the CG moving forward decrease gear effect and thus cause bulge and roll to actually hurt you on mishits? I can't imagine that is it otherwise it would be a fairly easy problem to solve...

The confusion might come from mixing up a couple of different concepts together.  There are two different more major contributing factor for gear effect.  The location of the c.g. (relative to the location of impact) and also the MOI of the club.

When we talk about different c.g. locations in a typical driver, we are generally talking about all drivers having a c.g. in a small little box that's < 1.5 cm in size front to back (and < 1 cm side-to-side).   In that context, the movement of the c.g. in that small volume only has a fairly small impact on the amount of gear effect relative to other things that are also changing.   What also does change considerably though is the MOI of the club.   For Horizontal gear effect (MOI about the vertical axis through the head) the MOI of modern drivers can vary from the low-mid 3000 gm-cm^2 all the way up to a bit over 5000 gm-cm^2.   And that much of a change can have a noticeable impact on the amount of gear effect.

So to put it simply, forward C.G. drivers have the reputation for having more gear effect (being lower spinning but more unforgiving) not because of the c.g. location but because one of the typical consequences of that more forward and low c.g. is also a relatively low MOI.  And that change dominates when compared with the c.g. location movement.

Gotcha. I was familiar with the concepts but had not put them together. I understood that more forward CG = lower MOI but I had not plugged that into the principles of gear effect. So lower MOI = more twisting on off center hits which = more subsequent gear effect spin creating larger draws/cuts. Could that twisting be stabilized at all by moving weights to the heel/toe side of the club? Take my M1 for example, if I put all 25 grams (or even more if I had heavier weights) in the front track dead center, what would change if I split that weight in half and moved it to either side? Would that sort of "perimeter weighting" have any impact on the twisting of the club head or is the amount of weight too small?
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#24 Stuart G.

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 07:23 AM

View PostValtiel, on 15 May 2018 - 06:59 AM, said:

So lower MOI = more twisting on off center hits which = more subsequent gear effect spin creating larger draws/cuts.

Basically - although "faster" twisting might be a bit more precise.

View PostValtiel, on 15 May 2018 - 06:59 AM, said:

Could that twisting be stabilized at all by moving weights to the heel/toe side of the club? Take my M1 for example,

It has some effect.  For example on the 2016 M1 460 - the MOI will vary from 3876 gm-cm^2 to 4284 gm-cm^2 depending on the weight settings.   Still not going to get you even close to a high MOI driver (like the Ping G at 5027 gm-cm^2), but it still might help some.

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#25 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 09:46 AM

View PostStuart G., on 15 May 2018 - 03:46 AM, said:

View PostJagpilotohio, on 14 May 2018 - 09:43 PM, said:

Gear effect is imparted by the shape of the head and the curvature of the face, otherwise known as bulge.  (Roll is the vertical component in face curvature.)

Gear effect really has nothing to do with bulge and roll.  Gear effect is entirely about the relative location impact location with respect to the rearward c.g. of the club and the resulting twisting motion of the club because of that offset impact (and the resulting spin transferred to the ball from that twist).    It's actually the other way around.  Bulge and roll exist because of and as a way to help counter the gear affect.  But it's not even a direct "fix", it's actually indirect as it's a directional (horizontal launch angle) "correction" to what's really a spin "problem".

And irons don't have bulge and roll because they don't' have enough of a rearward c.g. to have any appreciable gear effect.


View PostJagpilotohio, on 14 May 2018 - 09:43 PM, said:

Irons do not have bulge and have no significant depth to them to create a pivoting point for them to rotate around.  Adding 10 grams of weight to the hosel, or inside the shaft tip,  therefore has way to induce draw bias in an iron.  The idea that more weight "slows down the hosel and lets the lighter toe rotate shut faster is simply incorrect.  This does not happen.

Now you have me curious.  So if it doesn't come from gear effect and it doesn't come from an MOI change (affecting the ability to impart face rotation), then where do you think the draw bias does come from?

I was half asleep when I posted last night after the near toture of a 7 hour charity scramble the included a 45 minute lightening delay.

Let’s summarize the intentions of that post.

Adding 10 grams of weight to a shaft tip does not cause the “hosel to slow down and the lighter toe to rotate past  it” and cause a draw.

I shouldn’t have even included the bit about woods because it isn’t really relevant to the original post.  It was only to make the point that adding substantial heel weight (or toe weight)  makes a difference with them.

Moving a significant amount of weight from the rear of a driver to the heel of a driver will cause a draw because it increases gear effect by encouraging the head to rotate at impact imparting spin.

Gear effect is certainly not caused by bulge.  I can’t believe I actually suggested that. Bulge is designed into a driver face to decrease the amount of hook that occurs on a a toe hit and decrease the amount of slice on a heel hit, which occurs because of the gear effect....the twisting of the head that occurs on shots missing the center of the face.  Adding significant weight to the heel of the driver increases this gear effect and induces hook spin even on balls struck in the middle of the face.

Anyways...

2 good very things about that scramble that frazzled my brain.  It actually still hurts this morning.

1. City Bar b Que catered the dinner afterwards. Sooooo good. The smoked pulled pork was amazing.

2. I hit one of the best tee shots of my entire life. 314 yard Par 4  dogleg right around a lake that runs  the full length of the hole  on the right. Supposed to be a forced lay up hole.  Lake entirely fronting the green cut into a small hillside.   No run up area.  2 partners in the fairway with a 5 iron and a hybrid. One in the water. Wind off the right, hurting slightly. Pin is front left  lasered at 288. I am being egged on to go for it.  Why not? I’m still pretty long off the tee. It’s a scramble. I wind up and absolutely crush it.  I literally hit it as perfectly as I possibly could. Beautiful high baby draw fighting the wind started just off the right edge of the green.  Landed 3 yards onto the green into a swail so it only released about 4 yards. Green was damp.  Just past pin high for eagle but unfortunately had an incredibly difficult right to left downhill 25 footer for eagle.  No one converted but it was a nice tap in birdie.

It is not every day that I get to repair a ball mark on the green from my driver on a 314 yard par 4.  Certainly made the day....that and the BBQ.

Edited by Jagpilotohio, 15 May 2018 - 09:49 AM.

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#26 Stuart G.

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 10:03 AM

View PostJagpilotohio, on 15 May 2018 - 09:46 AM, said:

I was half asleep when I posted last night after the near toture of a 7 hour charity scramble the included a 45 minute lightening delay.

Let's summarize the intentions of that post.

No worries. Thanks.

View PostJagpilotohio, on 15 May 2018 - 09:46 AM, said:

I shouldn't have even included the bit about woods because it isn't really relevant to the original post.

Actually, the original post doesn't specify if he's asking about woods or irons.   I assumed irons as well but it turns out he was asking about woods (see post #10)

View PostJagpilotohio, on 15 May 2018 - 09:46 AM, said:

Moving a significant amount of weight from the rear of a driver to the heel of a driver will cause a draw because it increases gear effect by encouraging the head to rotate at impact imparting spin.

Not sure what exactly you mean by 'encouraging'.  It's true,  but only in the context that the c.g. might move (more) inside the impact location.  A greater offset between the c.g. and impact means more torque on the head from the impact.   But the effect on the MOI changes also have to be considered anytime weight is moved.   And it's already been mentioned, you need to move enough weight to get an appreciable movement in the c.g. before you'll see the results show up in the gear effect.

BUT - the effect of moving weight is different from the effect of adding weight.  And tip weights are about adding weight, not moving weight. It takes much more added weight (roughly twice as much) to have a similar effect on the c.g. as it does when moving weight around.

Edited by Stuart G., 15 May 2018 - 10:04 AM.


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#27 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 11:06 AM

View PostStuart G., on 15 May 2018 - 10:03 AM, said:

View PostJagpilotohio, on 15 May 2018 - 09:46 AM, said:

I was half asleep when I posted last night after the near toture of a 7 hour charity scramble the included a 45 minute lightening delay.

Let's summarize the intentions of that post.

No worries. Thanks.

View PostJagpilotohio, on 15 May 2018 - 09:46 AM, said:

I shouldn't have even included the bit about woods because it isn't really relevant to the original post.

Actually, the original post doesn't specify if he's asking about woods or irons.   I assumed irons as well but it turns out he was asking about woods (see post #10)

View PostJagpilotohio, on 15 May 2018 - 09:46 AM, said:

Moving a significant amount of weight from the rear of a driver to the heel of a driver will cause a draw because it increases gear effect by encouraging the head to rotate at impact imparting spin.

Not sure what exactly you mean by 'encouraging'.  It's true,  but only in the context that the c.g. might move (more) inside the impact location.  A greater offset between the c.g. and impact means more torque on the head from the impact.   But the effect on the MOI changes also have to be considered anytime weight is moved.   And it's already been mentioned, you need to move enough weight to get an appreciable movement in the c.g. before you'll see the results show up in the gear effect.

BUT - the effect of moving weight is different from the effect of adding weight.  And tip weights are about adding weight, not moving weight.    It takes much more added weight (roughly twice as much) to have a similar effect on the c.g. as it does when moving weight around.


Good grief.  Post number 10.  Driver head.  Totally missed it.  How big are the freaking tip weights to need to drill out a driver shaft?  

Oh well.  I give up on this thread.   I wouldn’t stick 10 grams in any tip. Iron or driver. Use Lead tape, or a different weight, or hot melt on a wood.

Stick that big nail up there and watch the head fly.  Inserting a new sharp pressure point inside the shaft well above the hosel seems like a recipe for disaster to me.

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#28 Stuart G.

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 11:23 AM

View PostJagpilotohio, on 15 May 2018 - 11:06 AM, said:

Good grief.  Post number 10.  Driver head.  Totally missed it.  How big are the freaking tip weights to need to drill out a driver shaft?  

The same size as the tip weights for graphite iron shafts ;-)

at least I assume that's rhetorical ;-)

View PostJagpilotohio, on 15 May 2018 - 11:06 AM, said:

Stick that big nail up there and watch the head fly.  Inserting a new sharp pressure point inside the shaft well above the hosel seems like a recipe for disaster to me.

For driver shafts it's unlikely the stem will pass the reinforced tip section so not much of an issue.    And that's assuming he's even talking about the brass weights (I'm the only one who mentioned tip weight material).   The rubber/tungsten tip weights (available in 8 gm or 10 gm) are more common and have roughly the same stem diameter and are way too soft to cause any stress risers.

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#29 TheWalkingGolfer

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 02:15 PM

View PostA.Princey, on 13 May 2018 - 07:56 PM, said:

I am not finding a ton of good advice on installation of tip weights whose stems are slightly larger diameter than the inner diameter of the shaft. Is it ok to slowly bore out the inner diameter of the tip to accommodate the wider weight?

We're talking like 1/64" in width difference. I'm just wondering if the shaft will retain its integrity.

I had to do this when working with a .355 graphite shaft for a driving iron. Been about 6 months and no problem to this point. I slowly drilled out the tip by moving up one drill bit size at a time.

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#30 A.Princey

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 10:26 PM

Anyway, back to tip weights....

I slightly bored the IDia of a shaft to receive some 6ga copper wire, worked like a charm. The wire is slightly narrower than the brass weights and is cheap by comparison, 5$ for 5ft. It's density is roughly the same and I just slipped a little epoxy in with the insertion. Easy peasy, and I took her for a spin today, and it performed great! Little lead tape for fine tuning but it's a good build.

The toughest part about the copper wire is bending the curvature of the wire stock straight, but copper is soft enough that it's only takes a couple minutes with a vice and a decent eye.

Edited by A.Princey, 15 May 2018 - 10:43 PM.

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