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What's your minimum for Hall of Fame


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#61 Holy Moses

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 06:56 AM

View PostiBanesto, on 14 May 2018 - 06:15 AM, said:

The 2 majors rule currently rules out players like Garcia, Day, DJ, Stenson, Thomas and Rose.

Some elected players would be ineligible such as De Vincenzo, Kite, Nagle, Charles, Couples, Venturi, Love III and Woosnam.

Garcia, Day, DJ, Stenson, and Rose are all underachievers at this point in their careers, so Iím not opposed to keeping them out

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#62 bladehunter

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 07:24 AM

View PostDarth Putter, on 13 May 2018 - 09:24 PM, said:

View PostShilgy, on 13 May 2018 - 07:45 PM, said:

View PostForged4ever, on 13 May 2018 - 07:27 PM, said:

View Postgolfgirlrobin, on 13 May 2018 - 03:36 PM, said:

I'd like to see them go to some sort of point system like the LPGA uses.  Factor in everything that's important and let the chips fall where they may.
She always has the most logical answer in these types of threads, lol

I'm with Robin on the points system����

You guys, even the ones of ya that I love, are a bunch of putzes, lolol��

Carry on��
RP
Nice to see you on here Richard!

The nice thing about the points system is that other finishes do somewhat get rewarded. Player of the Year, scoring average and such.
Who's having the better year? Finau or Potter Jr? Finau 16 events and 14 cuts and a more high finishes.
Potter Jr has a win but has missed 10 of 17 cuts.

But too many on here it's cut and dried about total wins only.

Charles Howell III

87 top 10s and 198! top 25s in 514 starts on the PGA Tour

$35,000,000 and change in earnings #21 all time

2 wins

IN or OUT?

Out.
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#63 Holy Moses

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 07:30 AM

View Postbladehunter, on 14 May 2018 - 07:24 AM, said:

View PostDarth Putter, on 13 May 2018 - 09:24 PM, said:

View PostShilgy, on 13 May 2018 - 07:45 PM, said:

View PostForged4ever, on 13 May 2018 - 07:27 PM, said:

View Postgolfgirlrobin, on 13 May 2018 - 03:36 PM, said:

I'd like to see them go to some sort of point system like the LPGA uses.  Factor in everything that's important and let the chips fall where they may.
She always has the most logical answer in these types of threads, lol

I'm with Robin on the points system����

You guys, even the ones of ya that I love, are a bunch of putzes, lolol��

Carry on��
RP
Nice to see you on here Richard!

The nice thing about the points system is that other finishes do somewhat get rewarded. Player of the Year, scoring average and such.
Who's having the better year? Finau or Potter Jr? Finau 16 events and 14 cuts and a more high finishes.
Potter Jr has a win but has missed 10 of 17 cuts.

But too many on here it's cut and dried about total wins only.

Charles Howell III

87 top 10s and 198! top 25s in 514 starts on the PGA Tour

$35,000,000 and change in earnings #21 all time

2 wins

IN or OUT?

Out.

Not even close. Heís in the Hall of the Very Rich though with Kuchar.
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#64 smeech8000

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 09:55 AM

View PostRobertBaron, on 13 May 2018 - 10:36 PM, said:

I'd add a fame quotient to my qualifications. I always get a little pissy that Halls of Fame end up being purely about stats or accomplishments and don't actually factor in, you know, fame to their criteria.

Guys like Daly and Couples would certainly qualify based on their level of fame as they were some of the most famous players of their eras. It wouldn't help guys like O'Meara who were solid players but weren't exactly the biggest stars (his 2 majors certainly help his cause more than the fame quotient would).

Adding a subjective component ("fame quotient") is probably a bad idea as it is in no way objectively quantifiable.  It also relegates induction to a popularity contest... do you think Fowler would be so "famous" right now had the Tour not pimped him so hard early in his career?  I personally like the guy but you have to admit he owes much of his fame to the PGA Tour marketing machine as opposed to the excellence of his play.  If he wins another Players he'd meet the criteria, but were his career to end today I doubt he gets in.

Daly meets the criteria but he's not getting in either IMO.  Couples induction was an aberration that met the baseline qualifications, but at least he had 15 Tour wins AND 1 Major AND 2 Players, plus a couple Vardon's and PotY's for good measure.

More casual golf fans know O'Meara as "oh that's Tiger's buddy" as opposed to the guy who won the AT&T pro-am every other year and went .500 in the majors in 1998.


View PostiBanesto, on 14 May 2018 - 06:15 AM, said:

The 2 majors rule currently rules out players like Garcia, Day, DJ, Stenson, Thomas and Rose.

Some elected players would be ineligible such as De Vincenzo, Kite, Nagle, Charles, Couples, Venturi, Love III and Woosnam.

IMO none of the current players you listed should be in thus far... they're all 1-major guys with a bunch of other wins (but not 15 Tour wins).  Garcia and Stenson are above the rest IMO due to their international finishes but the HOF will hopefully expand criteria to account for that as some of these current players get closer to retirement.

The older players had different criteria, as they would now under the Veterans Category.
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#65 Ferguson

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 10:00 AM

18 wins on US soil with 2 majors
--- or ---
30 wins internationally with at least 10 on US soil with 2 majors


The Players is a joke and shouldn't be counted.

Fred Couples should not be in.


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#66 Holy Moses

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 11:35 AM

View PostFerguson, on 14 May 2018 - 10:00 AM, said:

18 wins on US soil with 2 majors
--- or ---
30 wins internationally with at least 10 on US soil with 2 majors


The Players is a joke and shouldn't be counted.

Fred Couples should not be in.

Fred is the reason the WGHOF changed their rules. He should not be in.
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#67 grm24

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 11:56 AM

View Postsmeech8000, on 14 May 2018 - 09:55 AM, said:

IMO none of the current players you listed should be in thus far... they're all 1-major guys with a bunch of other wins (but not 15 Tour wins).  Garcia and Stenson are above the rest IMO due to their international finishes but the HOF will hopefully expand criteria to account for that as some of these current players get closer to retirement.

The older players had different criteria, as they would now under the Veterans Category.
Garcia and Stenson both have at least 15 wins on the tours that count towards the 15 wins needed. It's not 15 PGA Tour wins.

From the World Golf HOF web site:

A player must have a cumulative total of 15 or more official victories on any of the original members of the International Federation of PGA Tours (PGA TOUR, European Tour, Japan Golf Tour, Sunshine Tour, Asian Tour and PGA of Australasia) OR at least two victories among the following events: The Masters, THE PLAYERS Championship, the U.S. Open, The Open Championship and the PGA Championship.

Edited by grm24, 14 May 2018 - 11:57 AM.


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#68 smeech8000

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 11:59 AM

View Postgrm24, on 14 May 2018 - 11:56 AM, said:

View Postsmeech8000, on 14 May 2018 - 09:55 AM, said:

IMO none of the current players you listed should be in thus far... they're all 1-major guys with a bunch of other wins (but not 15 Tour wins).  Garcia and Stenson are above the rest IMO due to their international finishes but the HOF will hopefully expand criteria to account for that as some of these current players get closer to retirement.

The older players had different criteria, as they would now under the Veterans Category.
Garcia and Stenson both have at least 15 wins on the tours that count towards the 15 wins needed. It's not 15 PGA Tour wins.

From the World Golf HOF web site:

A player must have a cumulative total of 15 or more official victories on any of the original members of the International Federation of PGA Tours (PGA TOUR, European Tour, Japan Golf Tour, Sunshine Tour, Asian Tour and PGA of Australasia) OR at least two victories among the following events: The Masters, THE PLAYERS Championship, the U.S. Open, The Open Championship and the PGA Championship.

Good catch, thanks for pointing this out!
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#69 WidespreadPanic

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 12:02 PM

In not sure, but the reporter telling Webb in the post win press conference that he's now in the discussion for the HOF seems a little off base. A US Open and Players is huge and a career that a ton of players would take, but a total of 5 wins is not HOF.
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#70 sethdavidsdad

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 12:17 PM

View PostDave230, on 13 May 2018 - 03:37 PM, said:

I would say a points system of 24-30 points, with a win counting for 1 point and a major for 6-8 points, possibly points for other related achievements.

So these kind of players would all be equal for me:

24 wins+0 majors
17 wins+1 major
10 wins+2 majors
3 wins+3 majors

Majors are more important than regular events. But hypothetically if you win 3 majors, then didn't win a single other Tour event (you would be exempt for hundreds of tournaments on the regular Tour), that's possibly more of a flaw than not winning a major.
I like something like this except I would say 2 or more majors your in. Need to have 20 wins at least with no major. If only one major need at least 15 wins

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#71 Shilgy

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 12:25 PM

View PostWidespreadPanic, on 14 May 2018 - 12:02 PM, said:

In not sure, but the reporter telling Webb in the post win press conference that he's now in the discussion for the HOF seems a little off base. A US Open and Players is huge and a career that a ton of players would take, but a total of 5 wins is not HOF.
But a US Open win and Players win does get you on the ballot.

The only problem I have with hard and fast numbers is that wins are getting spread out among more and more players as the depth in golf increases.  Who is likely the better player

A wins 24 times no majors between 1924-1936
B win 21 times from 1972-1992 one major
C wins 17 times one major 1995-2015

Personally I would have it C>B>A with C and B quite close. And quite a bit ahead of A.

Furyk-Wadkins-Smith(MacDonald) for those wondering.

If the Hall of Fame went by the numbers being quoted in a few years it would be the cobweb hall of fame. AKA the ghosts of golf past.
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#72 Yuck

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 01:19 PM

View PostShilgy, on 14 May 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

View PostWidespreadPanic, on 14 May 2018 - 12:02 PM, said:

In not sure, but the reporter telling Webb in the post win press conference that he's now in the discussion for the HOF seems a little off base. A US Open and Players is huge and a career that a ton of players would take, but a total of 5 wins is not HOF.
But a US Open win and Players win does get you on the ballot.

The only problem I have with hard and fast numbers is that wins are getting spread out among more and more players as the depth in golf increases.  Who is likely the better player

A wins 24 times no majors between 1924-1936
B win 21 times from 1972-1992 one major
C wins 17 times one major 1995-2015

Personally I would have it C>B>A with C and B quite close. And quite a bit ahead of A.

Furyk-Wadkins-Smith(MacDonald) for those wondering.

If the Hall of Fame went by the numbers being quoted in a few years it would be the cobweb hall of fame. AKA the ghosts of golf past.


You have a point.  HOF is "big" enough to make sure the "best of their time" are included.  That is a different discussion than the "best of all time", which becomes more controversial.

Edited by Yuck, 14 May 2018 - 01:20 PM.


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#73 Shilgy

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 02:29 PM

View PostYuck, on 14 May 2018 - 01:19 PM, said:

View PostShilgy, on 14 May 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

View PostWidespreadPanic, on 14 May 2018 - 12:02 PM, said:

In not sure, but the reporter telling Webb in the post win press conference that he's now in the discussion for the HOF seems a little off base. A US Open and Players is huge and a career that a ton of players would take, but a total of 5 wins is not HOF.
But a US Open win and Players win does get you on the ballot.

The only problem I have with hard and fast numbers is that wins are getting spread out among more and more players as the depth in golf increases.  Who is likely the better player

A wins 24 times no majors between 1924-1936
B win 21 times from 1972-1992 one major
C wins 17 times one major 1995-2015

Personally I would have it C>B>A with C and B quite close. And quite a bit ahead of A.

Furyk-Wadkins-Smith(MacDonald) for those wondering.

If the Hall of Fame went by the numbers being quoted in a few years it would be the cobweb hall of fame. AKA the ghosts of golf past.


You have a point.  HOF is "big" enough to make sure the "best of their time" are included.  That is a different discussion than the "best of all time", which becomes more controversial.
Good way to phrase it imo.
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#74 gatorMD

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 02:35 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 13 May 2018 - 01:55 PM, said:

15 tour wins and 2 majors for me.  Other wise almost every 1 major winner out there is in.

agree with this.  And Tiger being the GOAT should have veto power on all nominations.

Edited by gatorMD, 14 May 2018 - 02:35 PM.

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#75 Z1ggy16

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 02:38 PM

I think the 15 wins is legit, but 2 majors...? If Danny Willett won the Master's again somehow and didn't sniff the top 50 in another tourney , I don't think he'd be HOF worthy.

I think if you bumped it up to 3 major's or 4 majors if 1 of those was a Player's, without any other tourney wins... then I think I could be okay with that. Two just isn't enough to be considered one of the games best.

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#76 Guia

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 02:46 PM

Daly is already in the AA Hall of Fame.  

20 wins is getting very difficult, fewer and fewer will reach that many.  I would say 3 Majors and 15 wins.

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#77 gatorMD

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 02:48 PM

View PostZ1ggy16, on 14 May 2018 - 02:38 PM, said:

I think the 15 wins is legit, but 2 majors...? If Danny Willett won the Master's again somehow and didn't sniff the top 50 in another tourney , I don't think he'd be HOF worthy.

I think if you bumped it up to 3 major's or 4 majors if 1 of those was a Player's, without any other tourney wins... then I think I could be okay with that. Two just isn't enough to be considered one of the games best.

how many people have won 2 or more majors?  

can't be that many.  That is quit a feat imo.  I think the US and Brits Am should count too.
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#78 Darth Putter

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 02:53 PM

View PostShilgy, on 14 May 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

View PostWidespreadPanic, on 14 May 2018 - 12:02 PM, said:

In not sure, but the reporter telling Webb in the post win press conference that he's now in the discussion for the HOF seems a little off base. A US Open and Players is huge and a career that a ton of players would take, but a total of 5 wins is not HOF.
But a US Open win and Players win does get you on the ballot.

The only problem I have with hard and fast numbers is that wins are getting spread out among more and more players as the depth in golf increases.  Who is likely the better player

A wins 24 times no majors between 1924-1936
B win 21 times from 1972-1992 one major
C wins 17 times one major 1995-2015

Personally I would have it C>B>A with C and B quite close. And quite a bit ahead of A.

Furyk-Wadkins-Smith(MacDonald) for those wondering.

If the Hall of Fame went by the numbers being quoted in a few years it would be the cobweb hall of fame. AKA the ghosts of golf past.

Macdonald Smith has more PGA Tour wins than anyone not in the HOF at 24. He never entered the PGA Championship, I guess he didn't like match play.

He had 14 top 5 finishes in the majors including his only Masters appearance.

He is a member of the PGA Hall of Fame.

Johnny Farrell (22/1) , Willie Macfarlane (21/1)  and Bill Melhourn (20/0) are from the same era and are the next three down on the all time wins list not in the HOF.

The last winner of twenty tour events not in the Hall of Fame is Doug Sanders. Everyone else in the top 37 is in, including Harry Cooper with no majors and 31 wins.
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#79 Ferguson

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 02:54 PM

View PostGuia, on 14 May 2018 - 02:46 PM, said:

Daly is already in the AA Hall of Fame.  

20 wins is getting very difficult, fewer and fewer will reach that many.  I would say 3 Majors and 15 wins.



This is the Hall of Fame, not spaghetti and meatballs.

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#80 Darth Putter

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 03:02 PM

Lloyd Mangrum

golf side
36 tour wins
1946 US Open Champion
money list leader in 1951
Vardon Trophy winner 1951, 1953
3 majors he was a runner up including one to Ben Hogan and a 1 iron in 1950
14 top 5s in majors overall

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missed three years in his prime due to World War II
during the war he was wounded at D-Day and the Battle of the Bulge
won two Silver Stars and two Bronze Stars
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so, Lloyd Mangrum...

IN or OUT? (I say in of course)

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#81 Darth Putter

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 03:13 PM

View PostFerguson, on 14 May 2018 - 10:00 AM, said:

18 wins on US soil with 2 majors
--- or ---
30 wins internationally with at least 10 on US soil with 2 majors


The Players is a joke and shouldn't be counted.

Fred Couples should not be in.

How about Bernhard Langer?

Two Masters
one other US Tour win, the Heritage the week after his 1985 Masters win
40 more European Tour wins (second on the all time list)
Order of Merit winner twice
European Tour POY twice
reached #1 in the OWGR (indeed the first man ranked #1)
10 time member of the Ryder Cup team

I'm not going to count his Senior Tour stuff, but he seems like a HOF member to me.
swing is irrelevant, score is everything

just say NO.... to practice swings

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#82 gatorMD

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 03:14 PM

why not a minimum score of say 33, where a major counts as 10 and a regular tour win counts as 1....?
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#83 puttfordoux

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 03:21 PM

A Masters, a Players, and an enviable swing.

Guess Adam Scott is a lock for the HOF as well.

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#84 Darth Putter

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 03:29 PM

View PostgatorMD, on 14 May 2018 - 02:48 PM, said:

View PostZ1ggy16, on 14 May 2018 - 02:38 PM, said:

I think the 15 wins is legit, but 2 majors...? If Danny Willett won the Master's again somehow and didn't sniff the top 50 in another tourney , I don't think he'd be HOF worthy.

I think if you bumped it up to 3 major's or 4 majors if 1 of those was a Player's, without any other tourney wins... then I think I could be okay with that. Two just isn't enough to be considered one of the games best.

how many people have won 2 or more majors?  

can't be that many.  That is quit a feat imo.  I think the US and Brits Am should count too.

counting just the pro majors, 81 men have two majors

Amateurs getting a  majors boost if we count those two tournaments.

Jack goes up to 20 at #1
Tiger stays at #2 with 17
Bobby Jones a clear third with 13

John Ball moves all the way up to T5 with Hogan and Player with his 8 British Amateurs and 9 overall

Arnie goes to 8 and ties Tom Watson

Harold Hilton goes from 2 to 7

Phil picks up one to go to 6

Jerome Travers and Lawson Little go from 1 to 5 (Little won the US and British Amateurs back to back in 1934 and 1935, a very impressive feat)

Sir Michael Bonallack has 5 British Amateurs
swing is irrelevant, score is everything

just say NO.... to practice swings

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#85 grm24

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 04:05 PM

View PostZ1ggy16, on 14 May 2018 - 02:38 PM, said:

I think the 15 wins is legit, but 2 majors...? If Danny Willett won the Master's again somehow and didn't sniff the top 50 in another tourney , I don't think he'd be HOF worthy.
If Willett would win another major it would only make him eligible to be nominated for the HOF vote. It wouldn't put him in.


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#86 Shilgy

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 04:15 PM

View PostDarth Putter, on 14 May 2018 - 02:53 PM, said:

View PostShilgy, on 14 May 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

View PostWidespreadPanic, on 14 May 2018 - 12:02 PM, said:

In not sure, but the reporter telling Webb in the post win press conference that he's now in the discussion for the HOF seems a little off base. A US Open and Players is huge and a career that a ton of players would take, but a total of 5 wins is not HOF.
But a US Open win and Players win does get you on the ballot.

The only problem I have with hard and fast numbers is that wins are getting spread out among more and more players as the depth in golf increases.  Who is likely the better player

A wins 24 times no majors between 1924-1936
B win 21 times from 1972-1992 one major
C wins 17 times one major 1995-2015

Personally I would have it C>B>A with C and B quite close. And quite a bit ahead of A.

Furyk-Wadkins-Smith(MacDonald) for those wondering.

If the Hall of Fame went by the numbers being quoted in a few years it would be the cobweb hall of fame. AKA the ghosts of golf past.

Macdonald Smith has more PGA Tour wins than anyone not in the HOF at 24. He never entered the PGA Championship, I guess he didn't like match play.

He had 14 top 5 finishes in the majors including his only Masters appearance.

He is a member of the PGA Hall of Fame.

Johnny Farrell (22/1) , Willie Macfarlane (21/1)  and Bill Melhourn (20/0) are from the same era and are the next three down on the all time wins list not in the HOF.

The last winner of twenty tour events not in the Hall of Fame is Doug Sanders. Everyone else in the top 37 is in, including Harry Cooper with no majors and 31 wins.
And of those top 37 you mentioned just five were born from 1950 on.  Heck 3 were born in 1912 alone but just five in the last 68 years? That would include players that have been retired for essentially 20 years.  Does that not show a good reason to change requirements? Or do you believe all the good players were in the past?
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To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened .  :)

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#87 Shilgy

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 04:16 PM

View PostDarth Putter, on 14 May 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

Lloyd Mangrum

golf side
36 tour wins
1946 US Open Champion
money list leader in 1951
Vardon Trophy winner 1951, 1953
3 majors he was a runner up including one to Ben Hogan and a 1 iron in 1950
14 top 5s in majors overall

non golf side
missed three years in his prime due to World War II
during the war he was wounded at D-Day and the Battle of the Bulge
won two Silver Stars and two Bronze Stars
one of our posters will gut you like a fish if you say out (Richard)

so, Lloyd Mangrum...

IN or OUT? (I say in of course)
easily in

http://www.worldgolf.../lloyd-mangrum/

Edited by Shilgy, 14 May 2018 - 04:17 PM.

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To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened .  :)

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#88 DK<80

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 04:20 PM

So many posts I didn't catch anything about Padraig Harrington?  Is this pretty much a given?
3 majors and I think 15-18 wins on Euro/PGA tour?
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#89 lowheel

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 04:24 PM

View PostDarth Putter, on 13 May 2018 - 09:24 PM, said:

View PostShilgy, on 13 May 2018 - 07:45 PM, said:

View PostForged4ever, on 13 May 2018 - 07:27 PM, said:

View Postgolfgirlrobin, on 13 May 2018 - 03:36 PM, said:

I'd like to see them go to some sort of point system like the LPGA uses.  Factor in everything that's important and let the chips fall where they may.
She always has the most logical answer in these types of threads, lol

I'm with Robin on the points system����

You guys, even the ones of ya that I love, are a bunch of putzes, lolol��

Carry on��
RP
Nice to see you on here Richard!

The nice thing about the points system is that other finishes do somewhat get rewarded. Player of the Year, scoring average and such.
Who's having the better year? Finau or Potter Jr? Finau 16 events and 14 cuts and a more high finishes.
Potter Jr has a win but has missed 10 of 17 cuts.

But too many on here it's cut and dried about total wins only.

Charles Howell III

87 top 10s and 198! top 25s in 514 starts on the PGA Tour

$35,000,000 and change in earnings #21 all time

2 wins

IN or OUT?

Lol way out...

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#90 bandrz

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 04:25 PM

View PostDarth Putter, on 14 May 2018 - 03:13 PM, said:

View PostFerguson, on 14 May 2018 - 10:00 AM, said:

18 wins on US soil with 2 majors
--- or ---
30 wins internationally with at least 10 on US soil with 2 majors


The Players is a joke and shouldn't be counted.

Fred Couples should not be in.

How about Bernhard Langer?

Two Masters
one other US Tour win, the Heritage the week after his 1985 Masters win
40 more European Tour wins (second on the all time list)
Order of Merit winner twice
European Tour POY twice
reached #1 in the OWGR (indeed the first man ranked #1)
10 time member of the Ryder Cup team

I'm not going to count his Senior Tour stuff, but he seems like a HOF member to me.

If Langer isn't a HOFer, go ahead and deadbolt the doors.


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