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What's your minimum for Hall of Fame


168 replies to this topic

#31 Outlier

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 09:00 PM

View PostHawkeye77, on 13 May 2018 - 06:44 PM, said:

Daly? Never.

I would NEVER vote for him, but I suspect shortly after his lifestyle catches up with him at say 54.....he will become a sympathetic figure and we'll fondly remember his courageous fight with his inner demons,  and how through it all he was a nice guy. He gets in much to my chagrin.


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#32 jimb6golf

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 09:05 PM

15 wins plus 2 majors AND be dominant in your era.

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#33 Petunia Sprinkle

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 09:09 PM

18 majors.

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#34 Hawkeye77

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 09:15 PM

View PostOutlier, on 13 May 2018 - 09:00 PM, said:

View PostHawkeye77, on 13 May 2018 - 06:44 PM, said:

Daly? Never.

I would NEVER vote for him, but I suspect shortly after his lifestyle catches up with him at say 54.....he will become a sympathetic figure and we'll fondly remember his courageous fight with his inner demons,  and how through it all he was a nice guy. He gets in much to my chagrin.

Or his music career?

Then I say Peter Jacobsen! Great band plus the best takedown ever at a major.

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#35 grm24

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 09:21 PM

View PostHawkeye77, on 13 May 2018 - 06:44 PM, said:

Daly? Never.
Pretty hard to have a player in the WGHOF who has had more scores of 80+ on the PGA Tour (74) than Jack Nicklaus has wins (73). While Daly meets the minimum criteria to be considered he will never be voted in.


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#36 Darth Putter

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 09:24 PM

View PostShilgy, on 13 May 2018 - 07:45 PM, said:

View PostForged4ever, on 13 May 2018 - 07:27 PM, said:

View Postgolfgirlrobin, on 13 May 2018 - 03:36 PM, said:

I'd like to see them go to some sort of point system like the LPGA uses.  Factor in everything that's important and let the chips fall where they may.
She always has the most logical answer in these types of threads, lol

I'm with Robin on the points system����

You guys, even the ones of ya that I love, are a bunch of putzes, lolol��

Carry on��
RP
Nice to see you on here Richard!

The nice thing about the points system is that other finishes do somewhat get rewarded. Player of the Year, scoring average and such.
Who's having the better year? Finau or Potter Jr? Finau 16 events and 14 cuts and a more high finishes.
Potter Jr has a win but has missed 10 of 17 cuts.

But too many on here it's cut and dried about total wins only.

Charles Howell III

87 top 10s and 198! top 25s in 514 starts on the PGA Tour

$35,000,000 and change in earnings #21 all time

2 wins

IN or OUT?
swing is irrelevant, score is everything

just say NO.... to practice swings

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#37 Bad9

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 09:29 PM

View PostDarth Putter, on 13 May 2018 - 06:25 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 13 May 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

If we won't remember you're name without the HOF in 50 years I think you shouldn't be in. I feel like Webb isn't memorable at the moment

It worked for Chi Chi Rodriguez (8 PGA Tour wins) who got into the HOF in 1992.

Will John Daly (5 wins, 2 majors) make it?

They let Love and Couples in, why not Daly.
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#38 grm24

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 09:35 PM

View PostDarth Putter, on 13 May 2018 - 09:24 PM, said:

View PostShilgy, on 13 May 2018 - 07:45 PM, said:

View PostForged4ever, on 13 May 2018 - 07:27 PM, said:

View Postgolfgirlrobin, on 13 May 2018 - 03:36 PM, said:

I'd like to see them go to some sort of point system like the LPGA uses.  Factor in everything that's important and let the chips fall where they may.
She always has the most logical answer in these types of threads, lol

I'm with Robin on the points system����

You guys, even the ones of ya that I love, are a bunch of putzes, lolol��

Carry on��
RP
Nice to see you on here Richard!

The nice thing about the points system is that other finishes do somewhat get rewarded. Player of the Year, scoring average and such.
Who's having the better year? Finau or Potter Jr? Finau 16 events and 14 cuts and a more high finishes.
Potter Jr has a win but has missed 10 of 17 cuts.

But too many on here it's cut and dried about total wins only.

Charles Howell III

87 top 10s and 198! top 25s in 514 starts on the PGA Tour

$35,000,000 and change in earnings #21 all time

2 wins

IN or OUT?
Out. Without winning 2 majors/Players championship you now have to have 15 professional wins to be eligible for the WGHOF. from the WGHOF web site.

A player must have a cumulative total of 15 or more official victories on any of the original members of the International Federation of PGA Tours (PGA TOUR, European Tour, Japan Golf Tour, Sunshine Tour, Asian Tour and PGA of Australasia) OR at least two victories among the following events: The Masters, THE PLAYERS Championship, the U.S. Open, The Open Championship and the PGA Championship.

A player must be at least 50 years old during the year of a given Induction Ceremony (example: A player must turn 50 years old in 2017 in order to qualify for the Class of 2017), or be at least five years removed from being an active participant (as determined by the Tour) on any of the original members of the International Federation of PGA Tours.

Edited by grm24, 13 May 2018 - 09:35 PM.


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#39 Darth Putter

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 09:39 PM

View Postgrm24, on 13 May 2018 - 09:35 PM, said:

View PostDarth Putter, on 13 May 2018 - 09:24 PM, said:

View PostShilgy, on 13 May 2018 - 07:45 PM, said:

View PostForged4ever, on 13 May 2018 - 07:27 PM, said:

View Postgolfgirlrobin, on 13 May 2018 - 03:36 PM, said:

I'd like to see them go to some sort of point system like the LPGA uses.  Factor in everything that's important and let the chips fall where they may.
She always has the most logical answer in these types of threads, lol

I'm with Robin on the points system����

You guys, even the ones of ya that I love, are a bunch of putzes, lolol��

Carry on��
RP
Nice to see you on here Richard!

The nice thing about the points system is that other finishes do somewhat get rewarded. Player of the Year, scoring average and such.
Who's having the better year? Finau or Potter Jr? Finau 16 events and 14 cuts and a more high finishes.
Potter Jr has a win but has missed 10 of 17 cuts.

But too many on here it's cut and dried about total wins only.

Charles Howell III

87 top 10s and 198! top 25s in 514 starts on the PGA Tour

$35,000,000 and change in earnings #21 all time

2 wins

IN or OUT?
Out. Without winning 2 majors/Players championship you now have to have 15 professional wins to be eligible for the WGHOF. from the WGHOF web site.

A player must have a cumulative total of 15 or more official victories on any of the original members of the International Federation of PGA Tours (PGA TOUR, European Tour, Japan Golf Tour, Sunshine Tour, Asian Tour and PGA of Australasia) OR at least two victories among the following events: The Masters, THE PLAYERS Championship, the U.S. Open, The Open Championship and the PGA Championship.

A player must be at least 50 years old during the year of a given Induction Ceremony (example: A player must turn 50 years old in 2017 in order to qualify for the Class of 2017), or be at least five years removed from being an active participant (as determined by the Tour) on any of the original members of the International Federation of PGA Tours.

This isn't about the WGHOF, it's about the Shilgy Golf HOF. Would he put Charles Howell III into it?
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#40 Hawkeye77

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 09:42 PM

While I wish I could be inducted into a Hall of Fame for incredible golfers who make millions (fail on both counts), there still has to be a way to sort out the cream of the incredible golfers who make millions - and the ones who don't get in still made millions so I'm not thinking they are too traumatized.


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#41 DavePelz4

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 09:49 PM

Golf needs a Hall of Shame.  Better stories.

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#42 Holy Moses

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 09:57 PM

View Postgrm24, on 13 May 2018 - 09:35 PM, said:

View PostDarth Putter, on 13 May 2018 - 09:24 PM, said:

View PostShilgy, on 13 May 2018 - 07:45 PM, said:

View PostForged4ever, on 13 May 2018 - 07:27 PM, said:

View Postgolfgirlrobin, on 13 May 2018 - 03:36 PM, said:

I'd like to see them go to some sort of point system like the LPGA uses.  Factor in everything that's important and let the chips fall where they may.
She always has the most logical answer in these types of threads, lol

I'm with Robin on the points system����

You guys, even the ones of ya that I love, are a bunch of putzes, lolol��

Carry on��
RP
Nice to see you on here Richard!

The nice thing about the points system is that other finishes do somewhat get rewarded. Player of the Year, scoring average and such.
Who's having the better year? Finau or Potter Jr? Finau 16 events and 14 cuts and a more high finishes.
Potter Jr has a win but has missed 10 of 17 cuts.

But too many on here it's cut and dried about total wins only.

Charles Howell III

87 top 10s and 198! top 25s in 514 starts on the PGA Tour

$35,000,000 and change in earnings #21 all time

2 wins

IN or OUT?
Out. Without winning 2 majors/Players championship you now have to have 15 professional wins to be eligible for the WGHOF. from the WGHOF web site.

A player must have a cumulative total of 15 or more official victories on any of the original members of the International Federation of PGA Tours (PGA TOUR, European Tour, Japan Golf Tour, Sunshine Tour, Asian Tour and PGA of Australasia) OR at least two victories among the following events: The Masters, THE PLAYERS Championship, the U.S. Open, The Open Championship and the PGA Championship.

A player must be at least 50 years old during the year of a given Induction Ceremony (example: A player must turn 50 years old in 2017 in order to qualify for the Class of 2017), or be at least five years removed from being an active participant (as determined by the Tour) on any of the original members of the International Federation of PGA Tours.

Outside of Monty, Ozaki, and Aoki, how many players have ever got in the WGHOF with 15 wins and no majors? Will Westwood get in with 30 something pro wins?

Edited by Holy Moses, 13 May 2018 - 10:01 PM.

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#43 cdnglf

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 09:58 PM

View PostBad9, on 13 May 2018 - 09:29 PM, said:

View PostDarth Putter, on 13 May 2018 - 06:25 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 13 May 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

If we won't remember you're name without the HOF in 50 years I think you shouldn't be in. I feel like Webb isn't memorable at the moment

It worked for Chi Chi Rodriguez (8 PGA Tour wins) who got into the HOF in 1992.

Will John Daly (5 wins, 2 majors) make it?

They let Love and Couples in, why not Daly.

Because they were much, much, much better than Daly.
Sorry for the obvious answer.

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#44 grm24

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 10:13 PM

View PostHoly Moses, on 13 May 2018 - 09:57 PM, said:

Outside of Monty, Ozaki, and Aoki, how many players have ever got in the WGHOF with 15 wins and no majors? Will Westwood get in with 30 something pro wins?
Chi Chi Rodriguez got in with 8 PGA Tour wins. But there was no minimum win threshold when he got in IIRC. His play on the Senior Tour helped get him elected.

As for Westwood he gets in. He was a two time world number 1 (2010/2011) and has won all around the world on all the major tours 40 times. Westwood had 9 top 3's in majors. There is too much emphasis on winning majors at times.

The 15 wins and the 2 majors/Players criteria was only added in 2014. Entry before that was based on a lower percentage of the vote and the win criteria was less.

https://en.wikipedia...om_1996_to_2013

Edited by grm24, 13 May 2018 - 11:31 PM.


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#45 StlEER

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 10:18 PM

Zach Johnson is the line. Not sure which way I lean though.


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#46 geesecougar2

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 10:21 PM

Purely as a player, it should be 20+ wins AND a major, or 2+ majors AND 15 wins. Players is nowhere near a major, its importance is manufactured. There are already a ton of perks for winning it.

But the World Golf Hall of Fame has already set the precedent that it's not as strict about it being purely about playing golf. The intangibles and contribution to the golf zeitgeist matter too, so it's very much a popularity contest.

Freddy and Monty are probably the best examples of edge cases. Freddy, you could make the argument because he was #1 OWGR, was multi-time victorious Prez Cup captain, and just overall popularity. Monty, best European of his era.

But the WGHF isn't like baseball, where they are very very protective of who gets in. With few exceptions, if it's even borderline, you basically don't make the cut (Bud Selig notwithstanding). Even before the three aforementioned edge cases, they let in a lot of odd names.

Edited by geesecougar2, 13 May 2018 - 10:39 PM.

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#47 RobertBaron

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 10:36 PM

Iíd add a fame quotient to my qualifications. I always get a little pissy that Halls of Fame end up being purely about stats or accomplishments and donít actually factor in, you know, fame to their criteria.

Guys like Daly and Couples would certainly qualify based on their level of fame as they were some of the most famous players of their eras. It wouldnít help guys like OíMeara who were solid players but werenít exactly the biggest stars (his 2 majors certainly help his cause more than the fame quotient would).

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#48 grm24

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 10:39 PM

View Postgeesecougar2, on 13 May 2018 - 10:21 PM, said:

Freddy, Love, and Monty are probably the best examples of edge cases. Freddy, you could make the argument because he was #1 OWGR, was multi-time victorious Prez Cup captain, and just overall popularity. But very borderline. DLIII, because 20+ wins is like a pitcher winning 300 games in baseball. But very borderline. Monty, best European of his era. But more borderline than Fred or Love.
Excellent post. Monty was a no brainer IMO. Over 30 wins on the European Tour (4th best), 8 time Order of Merit (money list) winner including 7 in a row. Over 400 weeks in the top 10 in the OWGR topping out at number 2. His Ryder Cup play. In spite of not winning a major or a Players he did win the Euro Tour Players equivalent, The Volvo (now BMW) PGA Championship, 3 consecutive times. People seem to always overlook Euro Tour accomplshments. It seems some people think it's the PGA Tour HOF and not the WORLD Golf HOF. DL3 shouldn't be a question. While he may not have won enough in some peoples eyes his 21 PGA Tour wins with a major and two Players Championship gets him in. In his era only Tiger, Phil and VJ won more on the PGA Tour. He deserves to be in more than Couples.

Freddie is an interesting case. He was elected in when the criteria for consideration was lower (only 10 wins or 2 Players/Majors) and was only elected in under an odd voting quirk that was in place which no longer exists.

http://www.golf.com/...-golf-hall-fame

Couples was elected on the PGA Tour ballot with a record-low 51 percent. The minimum for election is 65 percent, although there is a clause that when no one gets the minimum, the leading vote-getter is elected provided he has at least 50 percent of the vote.

Edited by grm24, 13 May 2018 - 10:41 PM.


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#49 geesecougar2

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 10:42 PM

View Postgrm24, on 13 May 2018 - 10:39 PM, said:

View Postgeesecougar2, on 13 May 2018 - 10:21 PM, said:

Freddy, Love, and Monty are probably the best examples of edge cases. Freddy, you could make the argument because he was #1 OWGR, was multi-time victorious Prez Cup captain, and just overall popularity. But very borderline. DLIII, because 20+ wins is like a pitcher winning 300 games in baseball. But very borderline. Monty, best European of his era. But more borderline than Fred or Love.
Excellent post. Monty was a no brainer IMO. Over 30 wins on the European Tour (4th best), 8 time Order of Merit (money list) winner including 7 in a row. Over 400 weeks in the top 10 in the OWGR topping out at number 2. His Ryder Cup play. In spite of not winning a major or a Players he did win the Euro Tour Players equivalent, The Volvo (now BMW) PGA Championship, 3 consecutive times. People seem to always overlook Euro Tour accomplshments. It seems some people think it's the PGA Tour HOF and not the WORLD Golf HOF. DL3 shouldn't be a question. While he may not have won enough in some peoples eyes his 21 PGA Tour wins with a major and two Players Championship gets him in. In his era on Tiger, Phil and VJ won more on the PGA Tour.

Freddie is an interesting case. He was elected in when the criteria for consideration was lower (only 10 wins or 2 Players/Majors) and was only elected in under an odd voting quirk that was in place which no longer exists.

http://www.golf.com/...-golf-hall-fame

Couples was elected on the PGA Tour ballot with a record-low 51 percent. The minimum for election is 65 percent, although there is a clause that when no one gets the minimum, the leading vote-getter is elected provided he has at least 50 percent of the vote.

Yeah, I edited my post because I totally realized that DL3 isn't an edge case lol. 20+ wins is stupid good. Maybe not the equivalent of a first balloter in baseball, but he definitely belongs as a player.

And yes re Monty. People don't give enough credit for "winning, period". Doesn't matter if it's on the Asian Tour, Euro Tour, Web.com, opposite field. You still had to beat 140+ other guys, and had to come up with the goods when it mattered.

Edited by geesecougar2, 13 May 2018 - 10:46 PM.

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#50 MadGolfer76

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 11:02 PM

Keep it at 2 majors and 15 wins moving forward, but develop a "Legends" category that starts at five majors. Make inductions to that retroactive (meaning Hogan, Jones, Nicklaus, etc.) so that the committee can focus on that over the next decade or so and not feel compelled to select an underqualified candidate to nominate simply to justify their existence.

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#51 Shilgy

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 11:27 PM

View PostDarth Putter, on 13 May 2018 - 09:39 PM, said:


This isn't about the WGHOF, it's about the Shilgy Golf HOF. Would he put Charles Howell III into it?
nope, but a nice career none the less.  I did not say wins do not matter. Just pointed out they are not the only thing and wins alone are not absolute. If Finau and Potter each played 20 years repeating this year is Potter in? 20 wins and just 140 cuts made in 20 years? I’m not saying Finau would be in but he would be known as a better player.
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#52 dan360

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 11:35 PM

John Daly for the celebrity wing
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#53 lowheel

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 11:36 PM

View PostHoly Moses, on 13 May 2018 - 06:22 PM, said:

10 Tour wins and two majors. The Players counts like a regular tournament. And for pete's sake, put Dave Stockton in already.

Amen, I dont get this at all. its a no brainer 10 wins over 10-11 years and 2 majors.Almost won an open and a masters as well. Didnt even bother to cross the atlantic to play the british open in the 70s...

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#54 Shilgy

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 11:43 PM

View Postlowheel, on 13 May 2018 - 11:36 PM, said:

View PostHoly Moses, on 13 May 2018 - 06:22 PM, said:

10 Tour wins and two majors. The Players counts like a regular tournament. And for pete's sake, put Dave Stockton in already.

Amen, I dont get this at all. its a no brainer 10 wins over 10-11 years and 2 majors.Almost won an open and a masters as well. Didnt even bother to cross the atlantic to play the british open in the 70s...
Therein lies the rub as they say. I would have had you down for being a 15-20 2 majors kind of guy. Not arguing Stockton but if a modern player won 10 times in 20+ years is he in?
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#55 OrangeGravy

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 12:16 AM

View PostMcCann1, on 13 May 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

If we won't remember you're name without the HOF in 50 years I think you shouldn't be in. I feel like Webb isn't memorable at the moment

Good answer, good answer!


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#56 Bingo1976

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 01:39 AM

View Postgeesecougar2, on 13 May 2018 - 10:42 PM, said:

And yes re Monty. People don't give enough credit for "winning, period". Doesn't matter if it's on the Asian Tour, Euro Tour, Web.com, opposite field. You still had to beat 140+ other guys, and had to come up with the goods when it mattered.

The context of the European Tour at the time was that few players moved to the US, so he was dominating against multiple major winners week in week out.

To be the best European Player from 93-99 when he was up against Seve, Ollie, Faldo etc. in their prime is an incredible feat. He is still 7th in the all time European order of merit despite modern prize money making it dominated by modern players.

I never liked him as a player (well, person when he played), but credit should be given to one of the greatest British golfers of all time. It's sad that he never got it done at a Major, but his dominance and consistency has to be HoF worthy.
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#57 lmanion

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 02:06 AM

I like the 15 tour wins and 2 majors criteria. If you only get 1 major then you need 20 wins. 30 wins without a major. Less than 15 wins but 3 or 4 majors. Furyk for the 58 and 59 I think that is hof worthy.

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#58 jerebear21

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 06:02 AM

Minimim 10 and 2 which is exactly where Zach Johnson sits. One of my all time favorite and a reason why Iím always tempted to switch to pxg.
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#59 MoneyPlayer33

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 06:11 AM

I like 20 wins 1 major
15 wins 2 majors
10 wins 3 majors

Its the hall of fame not the hall of very good . Sorry guys like furlyk, pavin and Freddy

Edited by MoneyPlayer33, 14 May 2018 - 06:13 AM.


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#60 iBanesto

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 06:15 AM

The 2 majors rule currently rules out players like Garcia, Day, DJ, Stenson, Thomas and Rose.

Some elected players would be ineligible such as De Vincenzo, Kite, Nagle, Charles, Couples, Venturi, Love III and Woosnam.


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