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What's your minimum for Hall of Fame


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#121 TreyWingbat

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 09:58 AM

At least 15 majors and 80 Tour wins.  Looks like Eldrick is a bit short.


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#122 Shilgy

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 10:14 AM

View Post3whacker, on 15 May 2018 - 04:24 AM, said:

I think one thing we are all overlooking is the entire career in its context...Weiskopf had the unfortunate position of being around during the Nicklaus- Miller years, without that he is a strong third in that era...

When you realize that Nelson- Hogan played in the same era , alone they would have been immortal

same goes for Mickelsen, he would have been No. 1 in the world except for the fact he played at the same time of TW

look at the entire body of work , dont let yourself make benchmark stats to figure who belongs in the HOF
Weiskopf would be ahead of ?
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#123 JustTheTips

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 08:48 PM

View Postsmeech8000, on 16 May 2018 - 09:08 AM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 15 May 2018 - 07:44 AM, said:

View PostDarth Putter, on 14 May 2018 - 11:27 PM, said:

View PostDK<80, on 14 May 2018 - 04:20 PM, said:

So many posts I didn't catch anything about Padraig Harrington?  Is this pretty much a given?
3 majors and I think 15-18 wins on Euro/PGA tour?

3 majors
3 other PGA Tour wins
12 more European Tour wins
twice European Golfer of the Year
PGA Player of the Year in 2008
6 time Ryder Cup player

for his era (Tiger!) that should be good enough


Not bagging on paddy but didnt Sergio hand him 2 of those majors? maybe give Sergio the knod too for assists

Possibly the 2007 Open, but even then Paddy shot 67 on Sunday... despite his Van de Velde impression on 18.  Everyone just remembers Serge missing that 10-footer on 18 for the win.

2008 PGA Harrington goes 66-66 over the weekend, finishing the last three holes (the 5th, 6th, and 1st most difficult holes that week) in -1 while Garcia and Curtis both go +2 and +1 respectively over the same stretch... IMO he won that one.

I struggle with calling Harrington HOF worthy. Yeah he had 13 months where he won 3 majors but outside that he has been a real solid pro but nothing HOF worthy.  He hung around 10-15 in the world. The very good but not great category. Compare that to someone like David Duval. 13/1 in a 4 year period (and that was it). Very short career but for those years he was clearly a top 3 guy in the world. Both of them sit right on that edge. I tend to leave both out but wouldn't lose sleep about either of them. Throw Zach Johnson into the mix also. Daly is another story. His career isn't hall of fame worthy. but you can't really tell the story of golf without mentioning him.

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#124 golfnoob25

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 09:14 PM

What impact did Tiger have on diminishing any of the edge HOF candidates resumes?

Does playing in the Tiger era give you any discount so to speak?

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#125 bscinstnct

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 09:28 PM

("2 majors" AND "15 wins")

OR

("3 divorces" AND ("one major" OR "bunch of euro wins"))


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#126 dlygrisse

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 09:52 PM

Itís more of a popularity contest than something that is earned statistically.   As an example how many majors and PGA tour wins did Jumbo Ozaki, Isao Aoki or Christy OíConnor have?  These fellows were fine players and did a lot to promote fhe game In Their countries. Yet none could win on the biggest stages. All are in.

So should they be booted out?  Couples didnít win much but was one of the most popular of his generation. He is in. Daly is arguably the 2nd most famous player of his generation so why is he not in?

Itís like voting for prom queen. All the halls are like this.

Edited by dlygrisse, 16 May 2018 - 09:52 PM.

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#127 EKELLY

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 07:35 AM

Look at it from this angle. How many guys are going to get to 15-20 wins in THIS era? How many have hit 20 wins in the last 30 years?  As Lanny said, there should be a separate wing for guys like Jack, Watson, Trevino, Player, Tiger, Palmer, etc. Then the Wadkins, Strange, Miller, Norman, etc. Shouldn't it be hard to get in?.....

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#128 playar32

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 10:06 AM

View PostEKELLY, on 17 May 2018 - 07:35 AM, said:

Look at it from this angle. How many guys are going to get to 15-20 wins in THIS era? How many have hit 20 wins in the last 30 years?  As Lanny said, there should be a separate wing for guys like Jack, Watson, Trevino, Player, Tiger, Palmer, etc. Then the Wadkins, Strange, Miller, Norman, etc. Shouldn't it be hard to get in?.....

I agree with that, kinda hard to compare Woods to a guy like Couples and say they are both HOF.

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#129 ChillyDipper

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:27 AM

View PostTreyWingbat, on 16 May 2018 - 09:58 AM, said:

At least 15 majors and 80 Tour wins.  Looks like Eldrick is a bit short.

So is Jack.
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#130 Shilgy

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 01:46 PM

View PostEKELLY, on 17 May 2018 - 07:35 AM, said:

Look at it from this angle. How many guys are going to get to 15-20 wins in THIS era? How many have hit 20 wins in the last 30 years?  As Lanny said, there should be a separate wing for guys like Jack, Watson, Trevino, Player, Tiger, Palmer, etc. Then the Wadkins, Strange, Miller, Norman, etc. Shouldn't it be hard to get in?.....
It should be hard-and it is. Only the best of each era get in.

That said the standards, aka the hard numbers such as wins and majors, do and will change by era.

There are guys like MacDonald Smith, Willie MacFarlane, Doug Sanders and Tom Weiskopf have better "numbers" than some of the recent inductees. BUT the current batch getting in with lower numbers were the very best of the generation and the older guys were not.

All you need to do is look at the least of all time PGA Tour wins and see how past generations the fields were very top heavy-aka very little depth/few really good players-which led to high career totals for a few.

A Goosen will likely get in. Currently sits at 7 PGA/14 Euro and 2 majors.  Bubba will probably get in, even with no more wins, and he sits at 11 wins 2 majors.  The days of the top players getting as many wins as Tiger, Phil, Jack and Vijay are probably done.

HOWEVER-the odds are also likely that we will get in a few years another generational talent that will knock this prognostication on its rear!  :)

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#131 bscinstnct

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 01:49 PM

View PostChillyDipper, on 17 May 2018 - 11:27 AM, said:

View PostTreyWingbat, on 16 May 2018 - 09:58 AM, said:

At least 15 majors and 80 Tour wins.  Looks like Eldrick is a bit short.

So is Jack.

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#132 smeech8000

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:11 PM

View PostJustTheTips, on 16 May 2018 - 08:48 PM, said:

View Postsmeech8000, on 16 May 2018 - 09:08 AM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 15 May 2018 - 07:44 AM, said:

View PostDarth Putter, on 14 May 2018 - 11:27 PM, said:

View PostDK<80, on 14 May 2018 - 04:20 PM, said:

So many posts I didn't catch anything about Padraig Harrington?  Is this pretty much a given?
3 majors and I think 15-18 wins on Euro/PGA tour?

3 majors
3 other PGA Tour wins
12 more European Tour wins
twice European Golfer of the Year
PGA Player of the Year in 2008
6 time Ryder Cup player

for his era (Tiger!) that should be good enough


Not bagging on paddy but didnt Sergio hand him 2 of those majors? maybe give Sergio the knod too for assists

Possibly the 2007 Open, but even then Paddy shot 67 on Sunday... despite his Van de Velde impression on 18.  Everyone just remembers Serge missing that 10-footer on 18 for the win.

2008 PGA Harrington goes 66-66 over the weekend, finishing the last three holes (the 5th, 6th, and 1st most difficult holes that week) in -1 while Garcia and Curtis both go +2 and +1 respectively over the same stretch... IMO he won that one.

I struggle with calling Harrington HOF worthy. Yeah he had 13 months where he won 3 majors but outside that he has been a real solid pro but nothing HOF worthy.  He hung around 10-15 in the world. The very good but not great category. Compare that to someone like David Duval. 13/1 in a 4 year period (and that was it). Very short career but for those years he was clearly a top 3 guy in the world. Both of them sit right on that edge. I tend to leave both out but wouldn't lose sleep about either of them. Throw Zach Johnson into the mix also. Daly is another story. His career isn't hall of fame worthy. but you can't really tell the story of golf without mentioning him.

Sorry, I stopped reading after "Yeah he had 13 months where he won 3 majors"  :black eye:

Three majors is serious stuff, even without the gravy - which in Harrington's case would be a dozen ET, 3 PGA Tour, and 5 Asian/JGT titles.  Some would place his body of work in the lower spectrum of the qualification zone, but the line has to be drawn somewhere and he is on the proper side of it with those creds.  Take a look at the list of players with three majors, and (aside from a couple of the ancient guys) those names are all recognizable as greats of the game.  I just don't think you can't say the same about a couple of the guys with just a pair - Daly and North immediately spring to mind.

Larry Nelson, another thrice-major champion, was inducted on a slimmer playing resume than Paddy has, IMO, unless they gave weight to his Champions finishes.  For the record I believe Larry deserved every bit of that honor and you'd be hard pressed to find a better guy and his story is pretty remarkable as well.

Hall of Fame inclusion is not synonymous with Greatest Ever discussions; there's maybe 10-20 guys you could justify in that discussion using different metrics across multiple eras.  HOF's gonna need more than 20 guys though...
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#133 lawsonman

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:27 PM

4 majors and 20 PGA wins seems like a fair number.
Welcome to where dumb opinions are better than no opinion. :)

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#134 lmanion

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 06:21 PM

People seem to forget the 15 part includes tours other than the pga tour. The European tour and the asian tour both count as do some others

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#135 Shilgy

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 06:44 PM

View Postlawsonman, on 17 May 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

4 majors and 20 PGA wins seems like a fair number.
You'd better get to work weeding out the riffraff and kicking guys out then.

So a14 player Hall of Fame. Nice. It'll fit in a small garage. :)

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#136 lawsonman

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 06:49 PM

View PostShilgy, on 17 May 2018 - 06:44 PM, said:

View Postlawsonman, on 17 May 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

4 majors and 20 PGA wins seems like a fair number.
You'd better get to work weeding out the riffraff and kicking guys out then.

So a14 player Hall of Fame. Nice. It'll fit in a small garage. :)

I have high standards. :)
Welcome to where dumb opinions are better than no opinion. :)

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#137 Shilgy

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 06:54 PM

View Postlawsonman, on 17 May 2018 - 06:49 PM, said:

View PostShilgy, on 17 May 2018 - 06:44 PM, said:

View Postlawsonman, on 17 May 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

4 majors and 20 PGA wins seems like a fair number.
You'd better get to work weeding out the riffraff and kicking guys out then.

So a14 player Hall of Fame. Nice. It'll fit in a small garage. :)

I have high standards. :)
Or just not enough room in said garage. :)

Hey, on second thought... Are you Ray Floyd? He conveniently thought his numbers, 20&4, should be the target as well.

Edited by Shilgy, 17 May 2018 - 06:55 PM.

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#138 mctrees02

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 07:03 PM

What about Paul Azinger?

16 PGA wins
1 major
1987 player of the year
Overcame cancer
2000 comeback player of the year (first win since 1993)
Ryder cup stalwart
Also revitalized the US team approach to building successful Ryder cup squads this century. If not for Medinah collapse, his model would be 3 for 3.

Edited by mctrees02, 17 May 2018 - 07:04 PM.


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#139 lawsonman

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 07:06 PM

View PostShilgy, on 17 May 2018 - 06:54 PM, said:

View Postlawsonman, on 17 May 2018 - 06:49 PM, said:

View PostShilgy, on 17 May 2018 - 06:44 PM, said:

View Postlawsonman, on 17 May 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

4 majors and 20 PGA wins seems like a fair number.
You'd better get to work weeding out the riffraff and kicking guys out then.

So a14 player Hall of Fame. Nice. It'll fit in a small garage. :)

I have high standards. :)
Or just not enough room in said garage. :)

Hey, on second thought... Are you Ray Floyd? He conveniently thought his numbers, 20&4, should be the target as well.

I'm much better looking than Raymond! :)
Welcome to where dumb opinions are better than no opinion. :)

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#140 lawsonman

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 07:08 PM

View Postmctrees02, on 17 May 2018 - 07:03 PM, said:

What about Paul Azinger?

16 PGA wins
1 major
1987 player of the year
Overcame cancer
2000 comeback player of the year (first win since 1993)
Ryder cup stalwart
Also revitalized the US team approach to building successful Ryder cup squads this century. If not for Medinah collapse, his model would be 3 for 3.

The Medinah thing keeps him outside my garage.

Welcome to where dumb opinions are better than no opinion. :)

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#141 cdnglf

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 07:58 PM

View Postmctrees02, on 17 May 2018 - 07:03 PM, said:

What about Paul Azinger?

16 PGA wins
1 major
1987 player of the year
Overcame cancer
2000 comeback player of the year (first win since 1993)
Ryder cup stalwart
Also revitalized the US team approach to building successful Ryder cup squads this century. If not for Medinah collapse, his model would be 3 for 3.

No, along with Duval, Pavin, Furyk, Calc...

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#142 Hawkeye77

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 09:21 PM

View Postmctrees02, on 17 May 2018 - 07:03 PM, said:

What about Paul Azinger?

16 PGA wins
1 major
1987 player of the year
Overcame cancer
2000 comeback player of the year (first win since 1993)
Ryder cup stalwart
Also revitalized the US team approach to building successful Ryder cup squads this century. If not for Medinah collapse, his model would be 3 for 3.

If he gets a ballot he'll definitely get one vote.  Not really a compelling career for being considered an "all-timer".  Not sure suffering and not succumbing to any illness or injury really has a lot to do with it, really don't want to go there. The "pod" thing is grossly overrated as a formula - just have an appropriate environment for the team and the guys need to perform when they are on the course and own it when they don't.  As a captain he gets way too much credit, just as pretty much every losing captain gets way too much blame.

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#143 c7015

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 09:38 PM

15 wins 3 majors

we can be picky now
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#144 Llortamaisey

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 09:51 PM

I think you should have 3 majors or the equivalent of, for example:

10 wins = 1 major
4 Ryder Cup Teams = 1 major
3 POTY = 1 major
2 Players Championships = 1 major
2 Tour Championships = 1 major
2 PGA Championships = 1 major
1 Open = 1 major
1 US Open = 1 major
1 Masters = 2 majors



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#145 SkiSchoolPro

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 10:18 PM

Is it Hall of Famous or Hall of Excellence? John Daly is certainly famous and he does have 2 majors, but there are lots of guys with better careers.

Should factors besides your scores count? Couples was a longer hitter than Pavin and more charismatic AND MORE WELL KNOWN.

View PostLlortamaisey, on 17 May 2018 - 09:51 PM, said:

I think you should have 3 majors or the equivalent of, for example:

10 wins = 1 major
4 Ryder Cup Teams = 1 major
3 POTY = 1 major
2 Players Championships = 1 major
2 Tour Championships = 1 major
2 PGA Championships = 1 major
1 Open = 1 major
1 US Open = 1 major
1 Masters = 2 majors
I agree with some of this list, but think 3 Player of the Years are worth more than a Major. Don't agree that 4 PGAs = 1 Masters...yes the PGA is the least liked major, but it has a stronger field than the Masters. If you are looking to reward excellence, I think you should factor in finishes (and/or adjusted $) to reward consistency (but maybe the Ryder Cup bit does that some).

Edited by SkiSchoolPro, 17 May 2018 - 10:24 PM.


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#146 cdnglf

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 10:44 PM

View PostLlortamaisey, on 17 May 2018 - 09:51 PM, said:

I think you should have 3 majors or the equivalent of, for example:

10 wins = 1 major
4 Ryder Cup Teams = 1 major
3 POTY = 1 major
2 Players Championships = 1 major
2 Tour Championships = 1 major
2 PGA Championships = 1 major
1 Open = 1 major
1 US Open = 1 major
1 Masters = 2 majors

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#147 Darth Putter

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 10:48 PM

View Postmctrees02, on 17 May 2018 - 07:03 PM, said:

What about Paul Azinger?

16 PGA wins
1 major
1987 player of the year
Overcame cancer
2000 comeback player of the year (first win since 1993)
Ryder cup stalwart
Also revitalized the US team approach to building successful Ryder cup squads this century. If not for Medinah collapse, his model would be 3 for 3.

16 pro wins

12 PGA tour wins
2 Euro wins (BMW twice)
2 wins in the Fred Meyers Challenge (unofficial team event)

A close call, but I think the overcoming cancer part will carry him in. It may be a while though.
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#148 bscinstnct

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 10:48 PM

View PostLlortamaisey, on 17 May 2018 - 09:51 PM, said:

I think you should have 3 majors or the equivalent of, for example:

10 wins = 1 major
4 Ryder Cup Teams = 1 major
3 POTY = 1 major
2 Players Championships = 1 major
2 Tour Championships = 1 major
2 PGA Championships = 1 major
1 Open = 1 major
1 US Open = 1 major
1 Masters = 2 majors

Will have to dissect this further but for now keep in mind that according to your major formula

Palmer has 10 majors (really has 7)

and

T Watson has 10 Majors (really has 8)

Yet both lack a PGA Championship to give them a career Grand Slam.









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#149 Shilgy

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 10:56 PM

View Postbscinstnct, on 17 May 2018 - 10:48 PM, said:

View PostLlortamaisey, on 17 May 2018 - 09:51 PM, said:

I think you should have 3 majors or the equivalent of, for example:

10 wins = 1 major
4 Ryder Cup Teams = 1 major
3 POTY = 1 major
2 Players Championships = 1 major
2 Tour Championships = 1 major
2 PGA Championships = 1 major
1 Open = 1 major
1 US Open = 1 major
1 Masters = 2 majors

Will have to dissect this further but for now keep in mind that according to your major formula

Palmer has 10 majors (really has 7)

and

T Watson has 10 Majors (really has 8)

Yet both lack a PGA Championship to give them a career Grand Slam.
Shouldn't the points be doubled, hmm maybe tripled or more, for a Grand Slam?
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#150 Shilgy

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 10:57 PM

View PostDarth Putter, on 17 May 2018 - 10:48 PM, said:

View Postmctrees02, on 17 May 2018 - 07:03 PM, said:

What about Paul Azinger?

16 PGA wins
1 major
1987 player of the year
Overcame cancer
2000 comeback player of the year (first win since 1993)
Ryder cup stalwart
Also revitalized the US team approach to building successful Ryder cup squads this century. If not for Medinah collapse, his model would be 3 for 3.

16 pro wins

12 PGA tour wins
2 Euro wins (BMW twice)
2 wins in the Fred Meyers Challenge (unofficial team event)

A close call, but I think the overcoming cancer part will carry him in. It may be a while though.
Considering the World Golf Hall of Fame is not just for playing record his successful Ryder Cup captaincy will likely have more to do with it than overcoming cancer.

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