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Switch to new irons.. Game struggling instead of improving


35 replies to this topic

#1 mrbandit

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 09:31 PM

Finally switch over from my Mizuno JPX-800 to Mizuno MP-18 MMC..
Got fitted and all..during the fitting I was hitting them fantastic.. Took them out to the course not hitting them as I was expecting.. I guess it will take some time to get use to them and how they perform when trying to hit the shots am used to.. Also notice distance is at least one club less now..
The question was the average time to get use to new clubs?

Mizuno JPX-900 - Driver
Mizuno JPX-850 - 3-Wood
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#2 mac4pres

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 09:48 PM

It usually takes me at least 5 or 6 rounds to get comfortable and sometimes the season till they're second nature

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#3 Guia

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 10:34 PM

4 or 5 rounds for me to get used to irons.  A driver is immediate, yes or no.

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#4 Chuck905

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 10:46 PM

That can happen.

The improvements should be immediate.

The 18 MMC arenít a game improvement irons over the 800, I think?

Iíve hit the MMCs, and they are players irons which means practice.

Edited by Chuck905, 07 May 2018 - 10:50 PM.

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#5 SubaruWRX

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 10:50 PM

Why did you switch in the first place? I hope you kept your old irons, just in case...

ďI think getting advice from guys who are sitting at the computer in their underwear while taking a break from porn is a very solid way to choose clubs.Ē - bluedot

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#6 WanLefty

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 12:52 AM

You should be able to take them out and play right away. If they 'fit' you then it shouldn't be an adjustment... That's the idea of a fitting.

If it takes 5 or 6 rounds you may as well just buy off the rack as anyone can get used to any clubs after that long. We are excellent at adapting.

The distance loss is also a concern. If the fitting was indoors and into a screen then this is very common, what fits best inside vs what is best on the real course are very different in my opinion.

I'm not having a go by the way - just my 2c




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#7 superT

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 01:52 AM

Are the lofts the same? that could account for the distance loss.

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#8 sphna12d

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 05:20 AM

Which Jpx 800 set do you have? If its the cast standard Jpx 800 irons then yes you would see a distance loss with the MMCís. Also youíve gone from a larger head with a larger sole to a forged multi material smaller head with a narrower sole. Yes there will be an adjustment period.

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#9 sphna12d

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 05:28 AM

Also one thing that you can do with the MMC is to make it a mixed set by substituting some MMC Fli Hiís for the longer irons up to the 6 iron if youíre struggling with the longer irons in the MMC set. That gives you the best of both types of designs.

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#10 Solidstrike

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 05:32 AM

Did you change shafts?  That will throw off your timing for a while for sure.

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Titleist 915 F2 15
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#11 Petunia Sprinkle

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 05:56 AM

View PostWanLefty, on 08 May 2018 - 12:52 AM, said:

You should be able to take them out and play right away. If they 'fit' you then it shouldn't be an adjustment... That's the idea of a fitting.

If it takes 5 or 6 rounds you may as well just buy off the rack as anyone can get used to any clubs after that long. We are excellent at adapting.

The distance loss is also a concern. If the fitting was indoors and into a screen then this is very common, what fits best inside vs what is best on the real course are very different in my opinion.

I'm not having a go by the way - just my 2c

Faldoís comments on fittings struck me enough to start a thread about it - http://www.golfwrx.c...__fromsearch__1

Iíve never been fit, but as I understand it, much of a fitting is dependent on a playerís swing. For a large number of people, Ďperformance nervesí is bound to skew the results, at least, in part. (The worse the golfer, the more likely that is to be true.) For me, Iím so erratic, I canít imagine even the best of fitters coming close.

And how infallible is the fitting process? Isnít it as much on the golfer as the fitter?

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#12 monkeyboy

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 06:07 AM

About 1 range session and 1 round before I felt comfy to play normally.  Then about 3 range sessions and 3 rounds to feel locked in and trust the new clubs.

Since they are new (and beautiful), I would suggest that you are probably overswinging and trying too hard.  Bad results lead to even worse form/shots.  Chill out, practice small shots, build from there.
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#13 aquapig

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 06:29 AM

Did an indoor fitting last summer and was put into the wrong shaft. I struggled for a while, took a couple lessons and things didnít get any bettter.

Fast forward to last month when I decided enough was enough. I went to Mizuno Demo day and thatís when I found out the shaft I was in was number 9 of 10 on the shaft optimizer.

Just got my clubs back with the new shaft and I can hit my high fade again, a draw when I need to and feel comfortable again.

My advice is to get a second opinion, especially if you did an indoor fitting.

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#14 Swisstrader98

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 06:36 AM

Have to give it time. Iíve never seen anyone get new irons and play better or the same as old irons.

Just donít bet much in the interim:)

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#15 Pacificgem

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 06:57 AM

View PostPetunia Sprinkle, on 08 May 2018 - 05:56 AM, said:

View PostWanLefty, on 08 May 2018 - 12:52 AM, said:

You should be able to take them out and play right away. If they 'fit' you then it shouldn't be an adjustment... That's the idea of a fitting.

If it takes 5 or 6 rounds you may as well just buy off the rack as anyone can get used to any clubs after that long. We are excellent at adapting.

The distance loss is also a concern. If the fitting was indoors and into a screen then this is very common, what fits best inside vs what is best on the real course are very different in my opinion.

I'm not having a go by the way - just my 2c

Faldo's comments on fittings struck me enough to start a thread about it - http://www.golfwrx.c...__fromsearch__1

I've never been fit, but as I understand it, much of a fitting is dependent on a player's swing. For a large number of people, 'performance nerves' is bound to skew the results, at least, in part. (The worse the golfer, the more likely that is to be true.) For me, I'm so erratic, I can't imagine even the best of fitters coming close.

And how infallible is the fitting process? Isn't it as much on the golfer as the fitter?

I don't know about "performance nerves" for myself, I don't really care how good or bad I am, I play for the fun of the game with people I enjoy being around, well that and the beer at the end if we're being honest lol. I'm a 9 handicap, I just go with what I've got when I play.

Anyways, I was custom fit for a combo set of Srixon Z765/Z965, I'd previously tried the full 965 set with a Modus3 Tour 120S and hit them beautifully (indoors) which prompted me to get a fitting. The fitter was a certified person, due to me drawing the ball in his wisdom he convinced me to go with the "X" shaft to straighten out my ball flight. Long story short I got to the course and couldn't hit the damn things.

I ended up bringing them back and getting an off the shelf set of Titleist AP3's with the AMT S300's in them and hit them so sweet, cap is going down now. Fittings don't necessarily mean better golf for amateurs for a wide variety of reasons. For me 70% of the success with clubs is the shaft not the head, different strokes for different folks.

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#16 phatchrisrules

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 07:13 AM

View Postmrbandit, on 07 May 2018 - 09:31 PM, said:

Finally switch over from my Mizuno JPX-800 to Mizuno MP-18 MMC..
Got fitted and all..during the fitting I was hitting them fantastic.. Took them out to the course not hitting them as I was expecting.. I guess it will take some time to get use to them and how they perform when trying to hit the shots am used to.. Also notice distance is at least one club less now..
The question was the average time to get use to new clubs?

This is extremely common during fittings, regardless if you get fit indoor or outdoor.  Have you ever heard the term "driving range pro"?  To some (myself included) it means a person who looks like 2000-era Tiger Woods on the driving range, but they can't break 85 when they actually go out and play.  The reason?  You aren't target bound, there is no penalty for a poor/mis-hit shot, and lastly, most people don't actually aim at anything when they practice/get fit, they just blast balls into forward and turn around and say "so, what do you think?"

Did you have a defined target you were aiming at?  Were your distances "off" compared to what you believe you hit them? If the second, then perhaps your swing wasn't really in sync that day.  In that regard, it isn't really your fitters fault per se, as they can only work with what was given to them.  There's loads of variables here.  Here's the tangibles:

1) Distance loss -- Not attributed to loft as the lofts are identical on both MMC and 800. So this is absolutely strike point driven.  You just aren't hitting the middle as consistently with these as you were your previous clubs.  Maybe the shaft is contributing a touch too much launch/spin (or vice versa), but I saw you were playing Steelfiber 125s before...can't get much beefier and stiffer than that so I doubt it was something too heavy/stiff.  Further, a "mis-fit" shaft isn't going to cause an incredible change in launch and spin, maybe 4-500 RPMs at the most and a 1* or so in terms of the change of AoA.  Where it is going to matter is the consistency and how often you impact the middle.

2) Inconsistency -- That is all the head design.  These clubs are vastly, vastly different.  Your 800s are a larger flanged, higher bounce golf club with a pseudo cup face and loads of MOI and perimeter weighting.  The MMCs are forgiving...for a small, forged CB.  It's still a player's iron, while Mizuno will argue otherwise, they still do best fit players who are going to shoot in the 70s most often.  The MMCs have a smaller sole, a touch smaller blade length, higher CoG, and less playing bounce, comparatively.  Sometimes less isn't always more...we could always use a touch of help here and there despite what you read on here a lot.  

Most fitting locations have a 30 day, X number of rounds guarantee where if something isn't working, then they can get you back in for a free re-fit.  I highly suggest that if you were fit to reach out to the location and inquire about this.  You might be able to get this remedied without any extra cost to you.

Edited by phatchrisrules, 08 May 2018 - 07:15 AM.

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Ping G700 5 - Accra 105CWT "Master's Green"
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Bettinardi Inovai 3.0 Centre Shaft

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#17 bladehunter

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 07:38 AM

in my experience they either work right off or they never will. no 'getting used to" period..  if you are doing that YOU are changing to suit the irons..not the other way around .   which is likely a bad thing

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#18 earleyrc

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 08:20 AM

My last iron switch took me about half a season to get completely dialed into yardages for all the variables (wind, elevation, lie, temperature).  I was also going from a cast GI with jacked lofts to a forged players iron with traditional lofts.  It wasn't like my yardages or scores were noticeably worse, just took a bit of time to get 100% confidence I had the right club in my hand for the shot I was trying to make.

If you were fit, stick with them would be my recommendation.
Driver (9.5°) - Titleist 915D3 Fujikura Speeder Pro TS 74
Wood (15°) - Titleist 915Fd Diamana D+ White 80
Hybrid (19°) - Titleist 913h Diamana S+ Blue 82
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#19 naval2006

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 08:44 AM

You went from a GI iron to a blade, so the difficulty in hittting the ball is out there.  

How to get adapted to a new club works differently for every golfer.  But as a rule you should be hitting solid shots quite on the spot if the club's for you.  And then also quickly you'll notice the left or right bias.  In my case, if I can't hit a new club ok within 3/4 days I feel it's not for me so I take it out of the bag.

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#20 Mike_C

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 08:45 AM

I think I have had more time adjusting to different shafts.  I had played C-Taper 120s pretty much since they came out, before that was a PX or Rifle guy, just never like DG.

I had the C-Tapers in some Adams Idea Pros and then MPH5s, but started having elbow issues, thought I would try something new.   Went Srixon combos about this time last year, but tried Modus 120, as they felt very smooth, but I went with X-flex, as they still felt smooth compared to C-Tapers.   I remember my first range sessions were not very good, I struggled with them off and on, loved the heads, but something about the timing and release/kick of the shaft I think was off for my swing. I then went graphite, for my elbows.  Similar profile issues, but with i200s with recoil 110 F5s.  Almost opposite of the Modus, even the f5 felt loose on the tip for me, dispersion was not very consistent. I also have a set of Cobra CB/MB with Recoil 125 F4.  The shaft profile is better, but the heads require a bit more precision than I have right now.

This lead me to try the irons in the bag now, Rogue Pro, with KBS Tour V stiff, as my elbows are greatly improved. Dispersion way better than the Pings with the Recoils, similar to better forgiveness. I tried the Tour V since it CPMs similar to the C-Taper but has more of that normal KBS feel.   I 'm normally a high spin player, and I spun the Pings like crazy and launched them very high, but the Rogue Pros with these shafts are very low spin, which actually is my biggest concern.  Feel and flight is very good, and I think I have to stick to spinnier balls like the Bridgestone Tour B XS, which I felt at first had too much spin, but probably will work well with these irons.

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#21 Johnnypenso

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 09:24 AM

Curious to know what the issues you are that you are having?  Problems with gapping, spin, peak height, turf interaction, making solid contact?  Something else?  I bought two new (used) sets of clubs in the last couple of months and adjust to them after one range session.  Both are older cavity back designs.   I've got my eye on some old Titleist 990's as I continue to experiment moving towards a more blade like club.  I expect I might struggle with them but you never know.

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#22 COL_B

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 11:02 AM

I chuckle at the statement "If you were fit improvement should be immediate".

Yeah, maybe if you have an Iron Byron swing, but not many of those around here.

Variances in distance are going to take weeks to resolve, including both range time and on the course.

How far do you hit a 7 iron on the range?  How about from a thin fairway? How about from the first cut?  What if it is soggy? What about from a peg on a par 3?

Now, how many times do you hit each iron per round? 2-3 per, each from a different lie & stance.

The variables during a round are near infinite compared to hitting off a mat with a monitor at a fitting.

Edited by COL_B, 08 May 2018 - 11:03 AM.

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Callaway Epic Sub Zero 15* (-1); PX Hzrdus Yellow 76g 6.0
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#23 earleyrc

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 12:37 PM

View PostCOL_B, on 08 May 2018 - 11:02 AM, said:

I chuckle at the statement "If you were fit improvement should be immediate".

Yeah, maybe if you have an Iron Byron swing, but not many of those around here.

Variances in distance are going to take weeks to resolve, including both range time and on the course.

How far do you hit a 7 iron on the range?  How about from a thin fairway? How about from the first cut?  What if it is soggy? What about from a peg on a par 3?

Now, how many times do you hit each iron per round? 2-3 per, each from a different lie & stance.

The variables during a round are near infinite compared to hitting off a mat with a monitor at a fitting.

Agree here.  There is always going to be a learning curve on a new set of irons.  The better the golfer and the closer specs/setup are between sets are going to determine how steep the curve is.

To be honest, I would be upset if everything was "exactly" the same from an old set.  Why else would you spend money on new clubs to do the exact same thing?
Driver (9.5°) - Titleist 915D3 Fujikura Speeder Pro TS 74
Wood (15°) - Titleist 915Fd Diamana D+ White 80
Hybrid (19°) - Titleist 913h Diamana S+ Blue 82
Irons (4-9) - Titleist 718AP2 DG S300 AMT
Wedges (46.08F, 50.08F) - Vokey SM6 DG S200
Wedges (54.10,58.10) - Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 DG S200
Flat Stick (34") - Scotty Cameron Select Newport 2 Matador Mid

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#24 Tight-right

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 06:33 PM

A history of good shots is what you need, and NOT from a driving range either. We play golf, not driving range golf swing machine gun ballguy. That's what you have with the old clubs, a history of good shots ON the golf course, in the heat of hitting new scoring plateaus.

Go hit a few GOOD shots on the course with each irons,  it'll get your confidence up to that of when you got fitted.

That's also the reason I can't be bothered to replace my irons. It's the history of many years of great shots in many conditions. Like a trusty weapon in the battle field, but woods are a instant love affair for me. Go figure.


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#25 Snowman9000

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 06:51 PM

But the learning curve should not include figuring out how to make as good of a swing and strike as your old irons.  If you have to do that, IMO they are a mis-fit.

So yes, maybe learning the ball flight tendencies, and if different then getting the lofts and lies checked.  And learning the distances.  OP, I was wondering if you are trying too hard with them, and it's throwing off your swing and strike.

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#26 JonnyKrasnodar

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 06:58 PM

View PostTight-right, on 08 May 2018 - 06:33 PM, said:

A history of good shots is what you need, and NOT from a driving range either. We play golf, not driving range golf swing machine gun ballguy. That's what you have with the old clubs, a history of good shots ON the golf course, in the heat of hitting new scoring plateaus.

Go hit a few GOOD shots on the course with each irons,  it'll get your confidence up to that of when you got fitted.

That's also the reason I can't be bothered to replace my irons. It's the history of many years of great shots in many conditions. Like a trusty weapon in the battle field, but woods are a instant love affair for me. Go figure.

Completely agree about playing golf and not the driving range. After being "fitted" for clubs 3 years ago when I started playing that were 100% wrong for me on the course, I made sure I got a 5,7 & PW in my specs to try on course for a few rounds prior to purchasing.

I was lucky enough that my Pro is friendly with a few Mizuno peeps and I got three irons made to my current spec to try out. Being able to hit longer and shorter irons on my home course, various lies and weather conditions, let me see the reality of trajectory, shape, spin, carry and roll.

Three years ago I hit a 7 iron 160 yards on the launch monitor got onto the course and discovered as I moved through the irons in certain conditions I wasn't able to replicate the numbers. It put me right off.

Now I know better and even when it comes to putters I'll make sure I can get a demo to even play three holes with to find out how it performs in conditions I'll be playing in.

That said, once I made the iron switch I didn't start striking it well 100% of the time. It took half a dozen rounds to get used to them and it's only really now I understand what clubs I can step on and when.

If you practice and play regularly you find you're back to hitting well in no time, unless of course your fitter has done you a disservice and sold you duds.

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#27 mrbandit

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 07:32 PM

Thanks everyone..  Yes it's an adjustment going from the JPX-800 to the MP-18 MMC.. The 800 was a heavier head. The MMC much smaller.. So I'm trying to get the same sorta feel.. The loft are 1 degree less then the 800 so I can see the distance adjustment.. I was hitting my 9 iron 150 now.. Is 145-148..
I'm going out on the course on Friday and Saturday that will be 3 full rounds.. Hopefully by then I hitting the shots am expecting.

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#28 tips09

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 07:42 PM

For me personally it only took a couple range sessions and a few rounds to be comfortable. It's taken about 10 rounds for me to actually trust that what I am trying to do will actually happen.  (Sometimes ha) give it some time to gain some trust with your new irons.

Edited by tips09, 08 May 2018 - 07:42 PM.

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#29 mrbandit

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Posted 09 May 2018 - 08:05 AM

View PostSubaruWRX, on 07 May 2018 - 10:50 PM, said:

Why did you switch in the first place? I hope you kept your old irons, just in case...

I felt I need it a smaller head then the JPX-800, when I was playing really well I had Titlelist 755 Irons which had the smaller head. Then got used to the JPX 800. (nothing feels like a Mizuno)
So tried out the MP-18 MMC before and during the fitting tried the JPX-900, AP1, Callaways, TaylorMades, but the numbers still were not better with the MP-18 MMC.

There is less room for error on these clubs, so i need to make sure am striking the ball no swiping at the ball.

i figured it will take me a few rounds just to get the feeling and confidence I can hit my shots.

Edited by mrbandit, 09 May 2018 - 08:05 AM.

Mizuno JPX-900 - Driver
Mizuno JPX-850 - 3-Wood
Mizuno JPX-850 - 4-Hybrid
Mizuno MP-18 MMC - 6-PW Irons, w/SteelFiber i125
Mizuno MS18 - Wedges , 50, 54, 56 Black Finish
Scotty Cameron Select Newport Mallet 2- Putter
TaylorMade TPx - Ball
Snell MTB Red - Ball

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#30 phatchrisrules

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Posted 09 May 2018 - 08:11 AM

View Postmrbandit, on 09 May 2018 - 08:05 AM, said:

View PostSubaruWRX, on 07 May 2018 - 10:50 PM, said:

Why did you switch in the first place? I hope you kept your old irons, just in case...

I felt I need it a smaller head then the JPX-800, when I was playing really well I had Titlelist 755 Irons which had the smaller head. Then got used to the JPX 800. (nothing feels like a Mizuno)
So tried out the MP-18 MMC before and during the fitting tried the JPX-900, AP1, Callaways, TaylorMades, but the numbers still were not better with the MP-18 MMC.

There is less room for error on these clubs, so i need to make sure am striking the ball no swiping at the ball.

i figured it will take me a few rounds just to get the feeling and confidence I can hit my shots.

Random question as I noticed you have since changed your signature from yesterday.  Did you get fit with the MMC and Steelfiber combo or did you find you were hitting the MMC better with shaft X and then decided that you liked the JPX's so much with the SF you reshafted the MMCs with them?  If so, we could have a winner as to why they aren't working.

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