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Dear blade,


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#301 bodhi555

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 04:00 PM

View PostAnser, on 14 May 2018 - 03:12 PM, said:

You either play golf for the best score possible or for the most enjoyment possible

If it's for score, you don't pick blades

Unless you've tried them both and find you score better with blades. Then pick them.

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#302 dciccoritti

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 05:25 PM

View Postmahonie, on 14 May 2018 - 03:41 PM, said:

View PostAnser, on 14 May 2018 - 03:12 PM, said:

You either play golf for the best score possible or for the most enjoyment possible

If it's for score, you don't pick blades

I play for best score and enjoyment and my MP4s give me the best of both worlds...shot more rounds in the 70s over the last 3 years than in all the time I’ve played CBs.

This. And the improvement in both my scores and enjoyment has been dramatic.
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#303 Chuck905

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 06:12 PM

Very interesting take.

I felt my Ping I25 felt softer (Ping must make the best feeling cast irons) than my current Mizuno 900T but I definitely have more precision and consistency with the forged.

The S18 felt superb.

View PostBye, on 14 May 2018 - 02:30 PM, said:

Feel wise, i canít tell the difference between a forged CB or MB. A difference in flight yes, but not in feel.

Edited by Chuck905, 14 May 2018 - 06:13 PM.

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#304 Bubbtubbs

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 06:20 AM

View Postmahonie, on 06 May 2018 - 11:36 AM, said:

View Postnsxguy, on 06 May 2018 - 11:22 AM, said:

Pop quiz - pick out the racket nobody uses anymore.



Posted Image

The racquet on the right is the reason there is bifurcation of the ball in tennis. Itís also the reason why no one watches tennis anymore. We donít need to go there...the blades/CB debate is enough for one thread ;-)
I think a more likely reason nobody watches tennis is because it's boring and a match between equally skilled players can potentially last forever.

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#305 Anser

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 09:36 AM

View Postmahonie, on 14 May 2018 - 03:41 PM, said:

View PostAnser, on 14 May 2018 - 03:12 PM, said:

You either play golf for the best score possible or for the most enjoyment possible

If it's for score, you don't pick blades

I play for best score and enjoyment and my MP4s give me the best of both worlds...shot more rounds in the 70s over the last 3 years than in all the time I’ve played CBs.

If you give me 10 honest rounds with each, I'll put you in some launcher hb's or 790's and you will have a lower avg round.  I'd bet lunch :)

Posted Image

Edited by Anser, 16 May 2018 - 09:43 AM.

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#306 Pepperturbo

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 12:38 PM

View PostAnser, on 14 May 2018 - 03:12 PM, said:

You either play golf for the best score possible or for the most enjoyment possible

If it's for score, you don't pick blades

That may be true for you and others but not me or some friends.  For us what constitutes enjoyment frustrates people or down right scares the hell out of them.   :) :beach:

Edited by Pepperturbo, 16 May 2018 - 12:42 PM.

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#307 mahonie

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 05:40 PM

View PostAnser, on 16 May 2018 - 09:36 AM, said:

View Postmahonie, on 14 May 2018 - 03:41 PM, said:

View PostAnser, on 14 May 2018 - 03:12 PM, said:

You either play golf for the best score possible or for the most enjoyment possible

If it's for score, you don't pick blades

I play for best score and enjoyment and my MP4s give me the best of both worlds...shot more rounds in the 70s over the last 3 years than in all the time I’ve played CBs.

If you give me 10 honest rounds with each, I'll put you in some launcher hb's or 790's and you will have a lower avg round.  I'd bet lunch :)

Posted Image

Get the order in...mine’s a rib-eye with fries and a bottle of Bud! :-)

Any club that can’t work a fade to a back right pin (launcher hbs) or looks like a hockey stick (790s) is not for me...and believe me I’ve tried.

This thread even got me to put my Mac MT Pro-Cs in the bag for my last round. Strikes felt great...dispersion was abysmal and the MP4s are straight back in the bag for my next round.

One thing I’ve found with these discussions that is not considered is the type of course that is being played. If I was playing a course with 40 yard wide fairways, few trees and large green complexes, I could easily smash a set of 790s around and probably break 80. Try that same approach on a tight, tree-lined course with 20 yard wide fairways and small greens and I would struggle to break 100 with 790s as the dispersion, particularly in length, is nowhere near accurate enough when distance control is all important.

I’ve played Big Berthas from a few generations ago and they were fantastic to hit...2 clubs longer than I was accustomed too, nice high flight and stopped on a dime. This was fine as long as I wanted a soft draw for every shot (caused by the offset for me). If the pin was tucked back right with any sort of trouble around the right-hand-side of the green, the best I was doing was front left of green...typically taking out a third of my scoring opportunities.

I just score better with my MP4s than with anything else...on the type of courses I play regularly. Give me a wide open American-style course and I would be looking at 790-type clubs to take advantage of the wide fairways and large green complexes. As I don’t play this type of course very often it’s a moot point.
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#308 JRusty

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 05:50 PM

In all honesty, blades are great; there is no better look and no better feel. With that being said, if your swing isn't geared to hit them, don't! In the long run they will cost you more strokes than the few you managed to gain throughout the course of a season. Golf is all about controlling your misses and managing the bad shots. Personally, I played blades for years and had several different sets. I loved them and still do. However, after playing competitive golf for years: both in high school and college, once I joined real life and wasn't able to play as much I noticed that my blade irons were starting to become an issue in my game and I was still a single digit handicap. There is plenty of irons that have look and the feel but give you that little extra you need to keep those misses closer. I switched to MP59 and have never been happier. I even gained some yardage but I will say that I had to go to a stiffer shaft to keep them down. All-in-all, I'm glad I made the switch.
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#309 ebrasmus21

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 05:54 PM

With how punishing blades seem to be can someone tell me how much better I'll be when I switch to non-blades?

I'm a 7 right now.  How much will my handicap decrease when I get rid of my blades?
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#310 JRusty

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 06:01 PM

That all depends on your ball striking. I have plenty of friends who hover right around a 10HDCP but still go real low or real high every few rounds. Personally, Iím a great ball striker but due to my busy work schedule Iím lucky to get out more than once a week. Naturally, Iíve lost a few shots I use to have in my bag when I played every day. I noticed my misses were becoming less and less controlled. I switched to the MP59 and they still have that blade look and soft feel Iím accustomed too. I gained a little distance but had to play with some lead tape as well. Haha
To answer your question: at the beginning of the season I was a 9.8 and in the past ten rounds Iím playing to a 5.4! The largest significance is my bad rounds are not as bad. Managed to get the low 80ís down to the high 70ís.

Edited by JRusty, 16 May 2018 - 06:05 PM.

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TaylorMade M2 - 15 - Graffloy Blue X
TaylorMade M2 - 18 - Fuji Blue X
Mizuno MP59  - 3-P - KBS Tour C Taper 130 X
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#311 ebrasmus21

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 06:08 PM

View PostJRusty, on 16 May 2018 - 06:01 PM, said:

That all depends on your ball striking. I have plenty of friends who hover right around a 10HDCP but still go real low or real high every few rounds. Personally, I'm a great ball striker but due to my busy work schedule I'm lucky to get out more than once a week. Naturally, I've lost a few shots I use to have in my bag when I played every day. I noticed my misses were becoming less and less controlled. I switched to the MP59 and they still have that blade look and soft feel I'm accustomed too. I gained a little distance but had to play with some lead tape as well. Haha

I know I'm just messing around.  This is always such a fruitless argument, lol.

These threads I usually follow pretty closely and there have been tons of them.  It would be so easy for the anti-blade group if they could just say "dude your handicap will decrease by 3 strokes if you stop using blades.  Look, here's the evidence!"  That, however, is wishful thinking at it's finest.
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#312 JRusty

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 06:23 PM

View Postebrasmus21, on 16 May 2018 - 06:08 PM, said:

View PostJRusty, on 16 May 2018 - 06:01 PM, said:

That all depends on your ball striking. I have plenty of friends who hover right around a 10HDCP but still go real low or real high every few rounds. Personally, I'm a great ball striker but due to my busy work schedule I'm lucky to get out more than once a week. Naturally, I've lost a few shots I use to have in my bag when I played every day. I noticed my misses were becoming less and less controlled. I switched to the MP59 and they still have that blade look and soft feel I'm accustomed too. I gained a little distance but had to play with some lead tape as well. Haha

I know I'm just messing around.  This is always such a fruitless argument, lol.

These threads I usually follow pretty closely and there have been tons of them.  It would be so easy for the anti-blade group if they could just say "dude your handicap will decrease by 3 strokes if you stop using blades.  Look, here's the evidence!"  That, however, is wishful thinking at it's finest.
If youíre asking if you should use blades; you probably shouldnít! Lol
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#313 ebrasmus21

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 06:27 PM

View PostJRusty, on 16 May 2018 - 06:23 PM, said:

View Postebrasmus21, on 16 May 2018 - 06:08 PM, said:

View PostJRusty, on 16 May 2018 - 06:01 PM, said:

That all depends on your ball striking. I have plenty of friends who hover right around a 10HDCP but still go real low or real high every few rounds. Personally, I'm a great ball striker but due to my busy work schedule I'm lucky to get out more than once a week. Naturally, I've lost a few shots I use to have in my bag when I played every day. I noticed my misses were becoming less and less controlled. I switched to the MP59 and they still have that blade look and soft feel I'm accustomed too. I gained a little distance but had to play with some lead tape as well. Haha

I know I'm just messing around.  This is always such a fruitless argument, lol.

These threads I usually follow pretty closely and there have been tons of them.  It would be so easy for the anti-blade group if they could just say "dude your handicap will decrease by 3 strokes if you stop using blades.  Look, here's the evidence!"  That, however, is wishful thinking at it's finest.
If you're asking if you should use blades; you probably shouldn't! Lol

I use a balata ball also, just to piss people off.
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GW, SW Royal Collect Dual Bite - DGTI S400s
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#314 puttingmatt

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 06:51 PM

Prior to all the gi, sgi, cb, and everything in between, there were blades. And if you couldn't
hit , you learned or found another sport. There are so many choices the choose from,  pick something and go play.  Choosing blades are not a right of passage. There's no mystique
to playing with them.
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#315 JRusty

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 06:53 PM

View Postebrasmus21, on 16 May 2018 - 06:27 PM, said:

View PostJRusty, on 16 May 2018 - 06:23 PM, said:

View Postebrasmus21, on 16 May 2018 - 06:08 PM, said:

View PostJRusty, on 16 May 2018 - 06:01 PM, said:

That all depends on your ball striking. I have plenty of friends who hover right around a 10HDCP but still go real low or real high every few rounds. Personally, I'm a great ball striker but due to my busy work schedule I'm lucky to get out more than once a week. Naturally, I've lost a few shots I use to have in my bag when I played every day. I noticed my misses were becoming less and less controlled. I switched to the MP59 and they still have that blade look and soft feel I'm accustomed too. I gained a little distance but had to play with some lead tape as well. Haha

I know I'm just messing around.  This is always such a fruitless argument, lol.

These threads I usually follow pretty closely and there have been tons of them.  It would be so easy for the anti-blade group if they could just say "dude your handicap will decrease by 3 strokes if you stop using blades.  Look, here's the evidence!"  That, however, is wishful thinking at it's finest.
If you're asking if you should use blades; you probably shouldn't! Lol

I use a balata ball also, just to piss people off.
I got some of those dimpleless balls from Titleist. They fly super far!

TaylorMade M2 - 10.5 - Speeder Motore 6.1 X
TaylorMade M2 - 15 - Graffloy Blue X
TaylorMade M2 - 18 - Fuji Blue X
Mizuno MP59  - 3-P - KBS Tour C Taper 130 X
Titleist Vokey SM5 - 50* 58* - KBS Tour Black Nickel 120 S
Scotty Cameron Newport

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#316 Anser

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 07:35 PM

View Postmahonie, on 16 May 2018 - 05:40 PM, said:

View PostAnser, on 16 May 2018 - 09:36 AM, said:

View Postmahonie, on 14 May 2018 - 03:41 PM, said:

View PostAnser, on 14 May 2018 - 03:12 PM, said:

You either play golf for the best score possible or for the most enjoyment possible

If it's for score, you don't pick blades

I play for best score and enjoyment and my MP4s give me the best of both worlds...shot more rounds in the 70s over the last 3 years than in all the time I’ve played CBs.

If you give me 10 honest rounds with each, I'll put you in some launcher hb's or 790's and you will have a lower avg round.  I'd bet lunch :)

Posted Image

Get the order in...mine’s a rib-eye with fries and a bottle of Bud! :-)

Any club that can’t work a fade to a back right pin (launcher hbs) or looks like a hockey stick (790s) is not for me...and believe me I’ve tried.

This thread even got me to put my Mac MT Pro-Cs in the bag for my last round. Strikes felt great...dispersion was abysmal and the MP4s are straight back in the bag for my next round.

One thing I’ve found with these discussions that is not considered is the type of course that is being played. If I was playing a course with 40 yard wide fairways, few trees and large green complexes, I could easily smash a set of 790s around and probably break 80. Try that same approach on a tight, tree-lined course with 20 yard wide fairways and small greens and I would struggle to break 100 with 790s as the dispersion, particularly in length, is nowhere near accurate enough when distance control is all important.

I’ve played Big Berthas from a few generations ago and they were fantastic to hit...2 clubs longer than I was accustomed too, nice high flight and stopped on a dime. This was fine as long as I wanted a soft draw for every shot (caused by the offset for me). If the pin was tucked back right with any sort of trouble around the right-hand-side of the green, the best I was doing was front left of green...typically taking out a third of my scoring opportunities.

I just score better with my MP4s than with anything else...on the type of courses I play regularly. Give me a wide open American-style course and I would be looking at 790-type clubs to take advantage of the wide fairways and large green complexes. As I don’t play this type of course very often it’s a moot point.

You shoot 80, you're not shaping the ball both directions.

LPGA tour players rarely do anything but hit it dead straight, wonder how they manage to shoot 67?

How did all those pga tour tournaments get won by those berthas, or ping eye 2's?  Won by players far more talented than anyone on this forum :)

How did they play golf with offset and no ability to hit high fades to back pins?

It's amazing they were able to do it at all!

Edited by Anser, 16 May 2018 - 07:50 PM.

TM M4 D-Type 9.5 - Tour AD IZ 7s
TM M4 3HL, 5 HL, Tour AD IZ 7s
Cleveland Hibore Xli 3,4,5
TM 790 6-AW, Project X LZ 6.0
Cleveland RTX 54/58
TaylorMade HiToe 64
Evnroll ER-5, Evnroll ER-2.1

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#317 jpdx

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 07:53 PM

View PostIIvudooII, on 03 May 2018 - 01:48 AM, said:

I am making the leap from very forgiving irons to the MIURA MC501ís. My fascination with forged, blade type irons began with a single session I had with a muscle back. At that time, I knew I was not good enough to play these irons but the pure feel of the club always stood with me.

     You could take a v6 and add everything imaginable to make it feel like a v8, but you know with every mod that you cannot replicate the vibration, the feel. I eventually got my v8, as I am now moving on to these beautiful MCís.

      I want to hear from some of you. I know I made the right choice. Even at the expense of losing a little distance, the confidence I feel when I strike these clubs is beyond words. It is like finally sleeping with the right woman. Your body has a way of synchronizing itself with what your head is already telling you. I mean, is there going back? Tell me why you fellas play MBís, Cbís, blade types, when there are various more forgiving options available?

I made the move last year. I still keep my more forgiving 4i in the bag but it's lofted like a 3i in my vapor pros. It fits in the bag well and the top lines, thinner soles....look so much better to me! I've actually played better as well. I have more confidence and in all honesty, I actually hit straighter shots. Maybe the shafts fit me better now, maybe my swing is better....all I know is the feel and control I get is a huge upgrade from my last set that is now my backup/travel bag.
Nike Vapor Flex 440 driver 9.5* Diamana Blueboard
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#318 mahonie

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 01:42 AM

View PostAnser, on 16 May 2018 - 07:35 PM, said:

View Postmahonie, on 16 May 2018 - 05:40 PM, said:

View PostAnser, on 16 May 2018 - 09:36 AM, said:

View Postmahonie, on 14 May 2018 - 03:41 PM, said:

View PostAnser, on 14 May 2018 - 03:12 PM, said:

You either play golf for the best score possible or for the most enjoyment possible

If it's for score, you don't pick blades

I play for best score and enjoyment and my MP4s give me the best of both worlds...shot more rounds in the 70s over the last 3 years than in all the time I’ve played CBs.

If you give me 10 honest rounds with each, I'll put you in some launcher hb's or 790's and you will have a lower avg round.  I'd bet lunch :)

Posted Image

Get the order in...mine’s a rib-eye with fries and a bottle of Bud! :-)

Any club that can’t work a fade to a back right pin (launcher hbs) or looks like a hockey stick (790s) is not for me...and believe me I’ve tried.

This thread even got me to put my Mac MT Pro-Cs in the bag for my last round. Strikes felt great...dispersion was abysmal and the MP4s are straight back in the bag for my next round.

One thing I’ve found with these discussions that is not considered is the type of course that is being played. If I was playing a course with 40 yard wide fairways, few trees and large green complexes, I could easily smash a set of 790s around and probably break 80. Try that same approach on a tight, tree-lined course with 20 yard wide fairways and small greens and I would struggle to break 100 with 790s as the dispersion, particularly in length, is nowhere near accurate enough when distance control is all important.

I’ve played Big Berthas from a few generations ago and they were fantastic to hit...2 clubs longer than I was accustomed too, nice high flight and stopped on a dime. This was fine as long as I wanted a soft draw for every shot (caused by the offset for me). If the pin was tucked back right with any sort of trouble around the right-hand-side of the green, the best I was doing was front left of green...typically taking out a third of my scoring opportunities.

I just score better with my MP4s than with anything else...on the type of courses I play regularly. Give me a wide open American-style course and I would be looking at 790-type clubs to take advantage of the wide fairways and large green complexes. As I don’t play this type of course very often it’s a moot point.

You shoot 80, you're not shaping the ball both directions.

LPGA tour players rarely do anything but hit it dead straight, wonder how they manage to shoot 67?

How did all those pga tour tournaments get won by those berthas, or ping eye 2's?  Won by players far more talented than anyone on this forum :)

How did they play golf with offset and no ability to hit high fades to back pins?

It's amazing they were able to do it at all!

This may surprise you but I do shape the ball both ways...not always with consistency though ;-). When I look at any shot, I always see a shape - it’s just the way I play. It helps a lot at my home course with tight, tree-lined fairways most of which dogleg. A straight shot to the corner of a dogleg doesn’t get you in a good position very often. Couple that with small, tree-lined greens and you need to be in the right position to get close. Plus, shaping shots is fun!
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#319 gbartko

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 04:49 AM

View Postebrasmus21, on 16 May 2018 - 06:08 PM, said:

View PostJRusty, on 16 May 2018 - 06:01 PM, said:

That all depends on your ball striking. I have plenty of friends who hover right around a 10HDCP but still go real low or real high every few rounds. Personally, I'm a great ball striker but due to my busy work schedule I'm lucky to get out more than once a week. Naturally, I've lost a few shots I use to have in my bag when I played every day. I noticed my misses were becoming less and less controlled. I switched to the MP59 and they still have that blade look and soft feel I'm accustomed too. I gained a little distance but had to play with some lead tape as well. Haha

I know I'm just messing around.  This is always such a fruitless argument, lol.

These threads I usually follow pretty closely and there have been tons of them.  It would be so easy for the anti-blade group if they could just say "dude your handicap will decrease by 3 strokes if you stop using blades.  Look, here's the evidence!"  That, however, is wishful thinking at it's finest.

In my experience I haven't seen an "anti-blade" group, it's usually the total opposite. seems to me the bladists are the ones who ARE saying "dude your handicap will decrease by 3 strokes if you start using blades because <insert anecdotal evidence and conspiracy theories here>".

of course, this is just my opinion.

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#320 Anser

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 06:42 AM

You must be a terrible putter then :)

There's a lot of guys on tour who only hit it one direction.

Either you're a terrible putter or you're hitting about 4 greens a round which means the shaping isn't working very well but a more forgiving set of irons might have you on the green instead of chipping :)

Of course, you can play however you want but I've always found it amazing that golfers will knowingly make it harder on themselves.  It's as if a Nascar driver would put a sail on the top of their car or a nba guy would wear ankle weights.  Golfers will wake up, go to the course, and use equipment that is known to be less forgiving on mis-hits.

It's crazy to me (and I do it too btw)  I hate the "look" of offset but it doesn't actually affect ball flight if I decided to hit something else.   I constantly put stuff in the bag I have no business using because I read about it here.  Heck, I've lost a ton of clubhead speed and bought an X shaft last year when I wasn't close to benefitting from that and switching to S had noticeable benefits.

I think of the 2% of players who play blades, a certain percentage of them do it just so they can say they play blades.

For people who play em cuz they enjoy it, I have nothing to counter it but people shooting 80 telling me they would play worse with a forged cavity or "players club" that has some help in it like an Ap2 etc?  I think you're full of it, respectively of course :)

Annika Sorenstam worked the ball better than you ever will in your life.  She played offset cavity back cast callaways.  You don't need a muscle back to bend the ball on purpose :)

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#321 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 07:25 AM

View PostAnser, on 17 May 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:

You must be a terrible putter then :)

There's a lot of guys on tour who only hit it one direction.

Either you're a terrible putter or you're hitting about 4 greens a round which means the shaping isn't working very well but a more forgiving set of irons might have you on the green instead of chipping :)

Of course, you can play however you want but I've always found it amazing that golfers will knowingly make it harder on themselves.  It's as if a Nascar driver would put a sail on the top of their car or a nba guy would wear ankle weights.  Golfers will wake up, go to the course, and use equipment that is known to be less forgiving on mis-hits.

It's crazy to me (and I do it too btw)  I hate the "look" of offset but it doesn't actually affect ball flight if I decided to hit something else.   I constantly put stuff in the bag I have no business using because I read about it here.  Heck, I've lost a ton of clubhead speed and bought an X shaft last year when I wasn't close to benefitting from that and switching to S had noticeable benefits.

I think of the 2% of players who play blades, a certain percentage of them do it just so they can say they play blades.

For people who play em cuz they enjoy it, I have nothing to counter it but people shooting 80 telling me they would play worse with a forged cavity or "players club" that has some help in it like an Ap2 etc?  I think you're full of it, respectively of course :)

Annika Sorenstam worked the ball better than you ever will in your life.  She played offset cavity back cast callaways.  You don't need a muscle back to bend the ball on purpose :)

Very well said. She played X-14s, which are total shovels.  And she made it absolutely dance.

You are also correct about pros working the ball.  Very, very few do,  According to the book Lowest Score Wins who cites shotlink data, 85% of tour pros move the ball the exact same direction on every shot.  Good players hit predictable shots.  "Working the ball" usually ends at the bottom of a lake.  Some pros do, but very few.
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#322 Anser

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 07:33 AM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 17 May 2018 - 07:25 AM, said:

View PostAnser, on 17 May 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:

You must be a terrible putter then :)

There's a lot of guys on tour who only hit it one direction.

Either you're a terrible putter or you're hitting about 4 greens a round which means the shaping isn't working very well but a more forgiving set of irons might have you on the green instead of chipping :)

Of course, you can play however you want but I've always found it amazing that golfers will knowingly make it harder on themselves.  It's as if a Nascar driver would put a sail on the top of their car or a nba guy would wear ankle weights.  Golfers will wake up, go to the course, and use equipment that is known to be less forgiving on mis-hits.

It's crazy to me (and I do it too btw)  I hate the "look" of offset but it doesn't actually affect ball flight if I decided to hit something else.   I constantly put stuff in the bag I have no business using because I read about it here.  Heck, I've lost a ton of clubhead speed and bought an X shaft last year when I wasn't close to benefitting from that and switching to S had noticeable benefits.

I think of the 2% of players who play blades, a certain percentage of them do it just so they can say they play blades.

For people who play em cuz they enjoy it, I have nothing to counter it but people shooting 80 telling me they would play worse with a forged cavity or "players club" that has some help in it like an Ap2 etc?  I think you're full of it, respectively of course :)

Annika Sorenstam worked the ball better than you ever will in your life.  She played offset cavity back cast callaways.  You don't need a muscle back to bend the ball on purpose :)

Very well said. She played X-14s, which are total shovels.  And she made it absolutely dance.

You are also correct about pros working the ball.  Very, very few do,  According to the book Lowest Score Wins who cites shotlink data, 85% of tour pros move the ball the exact same direction on every shot.  Good players hit predictable shots.  "Working the ball" usually ends at the bottom of a lake.  Some pros do, but very few.

Yep

There is a very real lack of imagination in modern elite golf instruction.  College players mostly learn to do one thing, hit it really high, and straight.  The Bubba's of the world, with an artistic brain, are rare for sure.

That said, Bubba can grab 790's or Ap2's and do the same things he does with his Ping's'

The idea you need forged blades to work the ball is nonsense.
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22

#323 Nard_S

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 07:45 AM

View PostAnser, on 17 May 2018 - 07:33 AM, said:

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 17 May 2018 - 07:25 AM, said:

View PostAnser, on 17 May 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:

You must be a terrible putter then :)

There's a lot of guys on tour who only hit it one direction.

Either you're a terrible putter or you're hitting about 4 greens a round which means the shaping isn't working very well but a more forgiving set of irons might have you on the green instead of chipping :)

Of course, you can play however you want but I've always found it amazing that golfers will knowingly make it harder on themselves.  It's as if a Nascar driver would put a sail on the top of their car or a nba guy would wear ankle weights.  Golfers will wake up, go to the course, and use equipment that is known to be less forgiving on mis-hits.

It's crazy to me (and I do it too btw)  I hate the "look" of offset but it doesn't actually affect ball flight if I decided to hit something else.   I constantly put stuff in the bag I have no business using because I read about it here.  Heck, I've lost a ton of clubhead speed and bought an X shaft last year when I wasn't close to benefitting from that and switching to S had noticeable benefits.

I think of the 2% of players who play blades, a certain percentage of them do it just so they can say they play blades.

For people who play em cuz they enjoy it, I have nothing to counter it but people shooting 80 telling me they would play worse with a forged cavity or "players club" that has some help in it like an Ap2 etc?  I think you're full of it, respectively of course :)

Annika Sorenstam worked the ball better than you ever will in your life.  She played offset cavity back cast callaways.  You don't need a muscle back to bend the ball on purpose :)

Very well said. She played X-14s, which are total shovels.  And she made it absolutely dance.

You are also correct about pros working the ball.  Very, very few do,  According to the book Lowest Score Wins who cites shotlink data, 85% of tour pros move the ball the exact same direction on every shot.  Good players hit predictable shots.  "Working the ball" usually ends at the bottom of a lake.  Some pros do, but very few.

Yep

There is a very real lack of imagination in modern elite golf instruction.  College players mostly learn to do one thing, hit it really high, and straight.  The Bubba's of the world, with an artistic brain, are rare for sure.

That said, Bubba can grab 790's or Ap2's and do the same things he does with his Ping's'

The idea you need forged blades to work the ball is nonsense.

Bubba does not use standard ground Ping's. His have higher COG and less offset. The same goes for Speith. The profile of their heads are blade like......shocking.

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#324 Anser

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 08:05 AM

View PostNard_S, on 17 May 2018 - 07:45 AM, said:

View PostAnser, on 17 May 2018 - 07:33 AM, said:

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 17 May 2018 - 07:25 AM, said:

View PostAnser, on 17 May 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:

You must be a terrible putter then :)

There's a lot of guys on tour who only hit it one direction.

Either you're a terrible putter or you're hitting about 4 greens a round which means the shaping isn't working very well but a more forgiving set of irons might have you on the green instead of chipping :)

Of course, you can play however you want but I've always found it amazing that golfers will knowingly make it harder on themselves.  It's as if a Nascar driver would put a sail on the top of their car or a nba guy would wear ankle weights.  Golfers will wake up, go to the course, and use equipment that is known to be less forgiving on mis-hits.

It's crazy to me (and I do it too btw)  I hate the "look" of offset but it doesn't actually affect ball flight if I decided to hit something else.   I constantly put stuff in the bag I have no business using because I read about it here.  Heck, I've lost a ton of clubhead speed and bought an X shaft last year when I wasn't close to benefitting from that and switching to S had noticeable benefits.

I think of the 2% of players who play blades, a certain percentage of them do it just so they can say they play blades.

For people who play em cuz they enjoy it, I have nothing to counter it but people shooting 80 telling me they would play worse with a forged cavity or "players club" that has some help in it like an Ap2 etc?  I think you're full of it, respectively of course :)

Annika Sorenstam worked the ball better than you ever will in your life.  She played offset cavity back cast callaways.  You don't need a muscle back to bend the ball on purpose :)

Very well said. She played X-14s, which are total shovels.  And she made it absolutely dance.

You are also correct about pros working the ball.  Very, very few do,  According to the book Lowest Score Wins who cites shotlink data, 85% of tour pros move the ball the exact same direction on every shot.  Good players hit predictable shots.  "Working the ball" usually ends at the bottom of a lake.  Some pros do, but very few.

Yep

There is a very real lack of imagination in modern elite golf instruction.  College players mostly learn to do one thing, hit it really high, and straight.  The Bubba's of the world, with an artistic brain, are rare for sure.

That said, Bubba can grab 790's or Ap2's and do the same things he does with his Ping's'

The idea you need forged blades to work the ball is nonsense.

Bubba does not use standard ground Ping's. His have higher COG and less offset. The same goes for Speith. The profile of their heads are blade like......shocking.

Not saying they aren't - saying he could bend it like crazy with any club in his hands.  He does it with skill, not the type of clubhead.  And Spieth plays one shot shape most of the time (not sure why he got in there).
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24

#325 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 08:10 AM

View PostNard_S, on 17 May 2018 - 07:45 AM, said:

Bubba does not use standard ground Ping's. His have higher COG and less offset. The same goes for Speith. The profile of their heads are blade like......shocking.

Bubba's clubs are very customized, but Spieth's arn't unless he did it very recently.  Link to this?

Those two six irons look pretty much exactly the same amount of "blade-ness".  One is Spieth's bag, one is Titleist's stock photo.  The "profile of the heads" is identical.

Attached Thumbnails

  • jordan-speith.jpg
  • Irons.jpg

Edited by pinestreetgolf, 17 May 2018 - 08:11 AM.

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#326 ebrasmus21

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 08:34 AM

View Postgbartko, on 17 May 2018 - 04:49 AM, said:

View Postebrasmus21, on 16 May 2018 - 06:08 PM, said:

View PostJRusty, on 16 May 2018 - 06:01 PM, said:

That all depends on your ball striking. I have plenty of friends who hover right around a 10HDCP but still go real low or real high every few rounds. Personally, I'm a great ball striker but due to my busy work schedule I'm lucky to get out more than once a week. Naturally, I've lost a few shots I use to have in my bag when I played every day. I noticed my misses were becoming less and less controlled. I switched to the MP59 and they still have that blade look and soft feel I'm accustomed too. I gained a little distance but had to play with some lead tape as well. Haha

I know I'm just messing around.  This is always such a fruitless argument, lol.

These threads I usually follow pretty closely and there have been tons of them.  It would be so easy for the anti-blade group if they could just say "dude your handicap will decrease by 3 strokes if you stop using blades.  Look, here's the evidence!"  That, however, is wishful thinking at it's finest.

In my experience I haven't seen an "anti-blade" group, it's usually the total opposite. seems to me the bladists are the ones who ARE saying "dude your handicap will decrease by 3 strokes if you start using blades because <insert anecdotal evidence and conspiracy theories here>".

of course, this is just my opinion.

-grant

Would agree with you on that, I can see where you're coming from.

Edited by ebrasmus21, 17 May 2018 - 09:58 AM.

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#327 towncryer

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 08:38 AM

I play three sets of irons in one set.

MP 18 for 8-PW
MP 18 SC for 5-7
MP 18 Fli Hi for 3-4

Here's the logic behind it...
I am confident I can hit quality shots 8-10 times out of 10 swings with blades from 8 iron and down. However, with 5-7 iron, it's more like 7-8 so I went with more forgiving irons in that range, the MC. I felt like I could hit 3 and 4 iron in the MC well about 5-6 times out of 10. So I went with Fli Hi (hated the MP MMC heads).

Essentially, I feel like with every iron and wedge in my bag, I could hit 8-10 out of 10 full swings well enough to send the ball where I'm looking. All I can ask for.

Edited by towncryer, 17 May 2018 - 08:44 AM.

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#328 mahonie

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 09:17 AM

View PostAnser, on 17 May 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:

You must be a terrible putter then :)

There's a lot of guys on tour who only hit it one direction.

Either you're a terrible putter or you're hitting about 4 greens a round which means the shaping isn't working very well but a more forgiving set of irons might have you on the green instead of chipping :)

Of course, you can play however you want but I've always found it amazing that golfers will knowingly make it harder on themselves.  It's as if a Nascar driver would put a sail on the top of their car or a nba guy would wear ankle weights.  Golfers will wake up, go to the course, and use equipment that is known to be less forgiving on mis-hits.

It's crazy to me (and I do it too btw)  I hate the "look" of offset but it doesn't actually affect ball flight if I decided to hit something else.   I constantly put stuff in the bag I have no business using because I read about it here.  Heck, I've lost a ton of clubhead speed and bought an X shaft last year when I wasn't close to benefitting from that and switching to S had noticeable benefits.

I think of the 2% of players who play blades, a certain percentage of them do it just so they can say they play blades.

For people who play em cuz they enjoy it, I have nothing to counter it but people shooting 80 telling me they would play worse with a forged cavity or "players club" that has some help in it like an Ap2 etc?  I think you're full of it, respectively of course :)

Annika Sorenstam worked the ball better than you ever will in your life.  She played offset cavity back cast callaways.  You don't need a muscle back to bend the ball on purpose :)

My putting is not that bad, 120-50 yards in is the weakest part of my game. Played a longish American-style course last week where a lot of shots into greens were from 180-130 yards and I shot 2+ for the last 15 holes hitting 12 GIR..it was just a shame that I dropped 5 shots on the opening hole and doubled the third :-/

Before the MP4s I played Nike Split Cavities for 3 years and shot 2 rounds in the 70s in that time. Handicap was pretty much the same as it is now, but my bad rounds were not as bad and my good rounds not quite as good as the MP4s.

I tested the AP2s against Ping S55s and the MP4s and I can honestly say that I have never been as disappointed in a club as I was with the AP2s. There wasn’t much to choose between the S55s and MP4s, both in distance and dispersion on mishits, but the AP2s were just awful for me...I now have the utmost respect for Spieth - he has far more skill than I gave him credit for.
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#329 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 10:09 AM

View Posttowncryer, on 17 May 2018 - 08:38 AM, said:

I play three sets of irons in one set.

MP 18 for 8-PW
MP 18 SC for 5-7
MP 18 Fli Hi for 3-4

Here's the logic behind it...
I am confident I can hit quality shots 8-10 times out of 10 swings with blades from 8 iron and down. However, with 5-7 iron, it's more like 7-8 so I went with more forgiving irons in that range, the MC. I felt like I could hit 3 and 4 iron in the MC well about 5-6 times out of 10. So I went with Fli Hi (hated the MP MMC heads).

Essentially, I feel like with every iron and wedge in my bag, I could hit 8-10 out of 10 full swings well enough to send the ball where I'm looking. All I can ask for.

Appreciate the post, and I only post this to point out that a lot of people think like you, and a lot of people (IMO) leave strokes on the table because of it.

There is no such thing as a "quality" shot, unless it goes in the hole.  A shot to 3 inches from the cup with an 8 iron and a shot to 10 feet from the cup with an 8 iron are both "quality shots" but there is  HUGE difference in the effect of those two results on your score.  This is binary thinking - a shot is either "quality" or "non-quality".  As you said, you hit  8 of 10 "well".  What does that matter?  What are you actually measuring?  Serious question.  Who cares?

Say you hit an 8 "well" to the middle for a 10 footer and you thin an awful 8 to the back fringe to a front pin for a 40 footer.  Believe it or not, those two shots are basically the same (you two-putt both about 90% of the time) despite you putting one in the "quality" category in your brain and one in the "non-quality" part of your brain, they have resulted in the exact same score.

Unless you hit it close enough to turn 3 shots into 2 OR the iron helps you not turn 3 shots into 4, one being "quality" and one being "non-quality" is irrelevant.  This is what I don't understand about combo sets.  If I lined up 100 balls for MP-18s and 100 balls for SCs 8-PW it is incredibly unlikely you would hit the MP-18s closer to turn more 3 shots into 2 BUT it is very likely the forgiveness in the SCs would keep it from going from 3 to 4.  So unless the MP-18s are giving you more one-putt chances than the SCs it makes zero sense to bag them, because they are worse on the other end.

I have no idea if your bag is correct for you or not.  I just think looking at picking clubs through the lens of "quality shot" versus "not a quality shot" doesn't make sense.  A "quality shot" with a 5 iron hits it to 30 feet, where you two-putt.  A "non-quality shot" with a 5 iron might be in the parking lot.  Those do not have a 1:1 ratio of "hey, one was quality, one was non-quality" to your scorecard.

"8 out of 10" is meaningless because if the two are OB and the other 8 arn't tight enough to one-putt, that's horrendous.  Meanwhile, if the two "non-quality" are reasonable misses  and four of the eight "quality" are one-putt range your playing on TV.  So this whole "8 out of 10 are quality" doesn't actually mean anything in terms of your score because all good shots are not created equal and all bad shots are certainly not created equal.  Erroring on the side of forgiveness throughout the bag makes sense because the non-quality has a MUCH better chance to add strokes than the high quality has of taking them away (unless you swish it, a quality shot can only ever be -1.  A non-quality shot can be +16 as Kevin Na learned at the Houston Open).

The issue is whether the club, when compared to others, hits it tighter (to turn 3 into 2 more often) or if its bad shots arnt as bad (stopping 3 from becoming 4 more often).  Comparing in binary form like a ton do on this forum (quality versus non quality) is an optical illusion.  Thinking "It was an average day.  I found $5 on the street, so that's quality, but my house burned down, so that's non-quality.  I'd say all in all, its 50/50" would be insane, but that's how you are analyzing your golf game.

Only really good or really bad shots matter in golf.  The rest are just two putts.

Edited by pinestreetgolf, 17 May 2018 - 10:16 AM.

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29

#330 farmer

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 10:30 AM

"he has far more skill than I gave him credit for."  Did you think YJS was skipping a hole now and again, or that his scores were the result of fluky bounces?  Good grief.  I've dipped into some of the one million blade threads, and the most common denominator is that "I bought blades, practiced a lot, worked hard on my game and my hdcp has gone down."


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