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Loft jacking... Did I find the worst offender?


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#61 QuigleyDU

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 12:17 PM

View Postkiwihacker, on 25 April 2018 - 01:36 AM, said:

The crazy part is they start at 22° and end at 50°. With 4° loft increments that's the old school 3 - PW

The comparison is nuts.
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#62 bigcountry1219

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 12:21 PM

View PostBye, on 25 April 2018 - 03:26 AM, said:

I sometime wonder if the OEM's think people wont notice if the just change the numbers on the bottom of the club.

Most wouldn't. Anyone who knows their own game would, but otherwise, there  aren't many people that know the standard loft on any given iron.

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#63 MadGolfer76

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 12:26 PM

Looking at loft alone, that is actually a pretty good spacing. Bridgestone, Srixon, PING and others have had some long iron gaps that were pretty skinny.
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#64 1Mordrid1

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 12:33 PM

View PostDeCuchi, on 25 April 2018 - 11:12 AM, said:

View Post1Mordrid1, on 25 April 2018 - 10:38 AM, said:

View PostDeCuchi, on 25 April 2018 - 10:20 AM, said:

Why do people say these would go to the moon if they weren't jacked? They wouldn't? The 39* iron would launch and spin exactly the same whether it had 7,9, or 12 stamped on the bottom. They would perform exactly the same without the ego stroke. It's marketing driven plain and simple. I'm sure they'd be more user friendly with better gapping as most of the current releases would.

Completely false.... The extra mass, low CoG, and extra offset of a GI or SGI club creates a much higher peak flight than what you would see with a traditional blade with a similar loft.

So changing the number from 7 to 9 adds extra mass, low CoG, and creates a higher peak height?  I’m not comparing blades to SGI. The peak height of the given loft of the sgi iron is the same whether it says 7 or 9.  It performs exactly the same. It may launch higher and spin less than a blade, the mythical “launch window” may shift higher than a blade, but that’s not what I’m talking about.  Peak heights will be higher across the set whichever loft you pick vs a blade.  Each specific loft in a set will still travel the same distance in the same way regardless of the number you assign it on the bottom.

Wow...if you want to argue with redutcio ad absurdum then I will need an easel and some crayons to teach you physics.

Obviously changing the number does not add those things. Club design does. It is a cause and effect. Club designers were told to design irons with more distance. They realized that reducing spin could achieve this. The easiest way to reduce backspin is to decrease the loft. But simply reducing loft would leave you with a low trajectory with no stopping power.  So they knew nobody wants an 8 iron that flies low with no spin, so they had to find a way to change that. They knew one way to increase trajectory is with lower mass, cog, and more offset. By doing all of this they can create a club that spins less for extra distance but goes higher so that it can still have stopping power. So yes the loft is stronger but it is not as simple as that because simply strengthening lofts would turn scoring clubs into mid irons. Technology has allowed an average golfer to hit what use to be mid iron distances with what can still be considered an easier to hit scoring club.


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#65 Sean2

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 12:36 PM

I like 4º gapping among the clubs. In some, the gaps seem to be quite close.

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#66 Bye

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 12:43 PM

View Postbigcountry1219, on 25 April 2018 - 12:21 PM, said:

View PostBye, on 25 April 2018 - 03:26 AM, said:

I sometime wonder if the OEM's think people wont notice if the just change the numbers on the bottom of the club.

Most wouldn't. Anyone who knows their own game would, but otherwise, there  aren't many people that know the standard loft on any given iron.

Maybe they don’t, which I personally find odd as to why people wouldn’t be interested in knowing these things. But each to their own and as long as golfers are happy with their gear then great.

I’m just not a big fan of the number drifting, a 39 inch 22 degree club is a 3 iron to me.
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#67 mootrail

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 12:53 PM

View Postkiwihacker, on 25 April 2018 - 08:58 AM, said:

View PostNessism, on 25 April 2018 - 08:47 AM, said:

View Postago33, on 25 April 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

Why do jacked lofts matter?

Because they are deceptive and some of us, apparently not you, think that's dishonest...  .

It's the gapping that gets me...

These irons were developed for the JDM market and as previously mentioned, they use JDM numbering.  So nothing deceptive here, take a close look at the latest SGI irons from the majors and you'll be shocked at the lofts.

The gapping may seem on odd on paper, but somehow they work in play.  I game these as well as the JPX EZ Forged.  Numbers-wise 6-9 they are around 1.5 clubs stronger then my JPXs.  I won't lie, I still get confused sometimes and pull the wrong club.  The one place the gap does get me is the PW1.  That would be an 8.5 in my JPX set, meaning I don't have my favorite 8 iron in my JGR and no 9 either, that still bends me.

Beyond that, these irons are a lot of fun and long.  The chunky soles are much more forgiving then narrower width soles on tougher lies.  Make no mistake though, these are irons and not hybrids.  The Zelos 8 Stiffs were a big surprise.  Yes, they are light, but not whippy, not high launching compared to the lofts and actually feel like they play to a stiff.

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#68 Lenny7

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 12:57 PM

I would need 13 wedges.

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#69 matchavez

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 02:28 PM

For the record, I understand that SGIs get "loft jacked" to a certain degree because it's appropriate given height, distance, etc.

I also know two more things...

The thread is a point that there is too much of a good thing, and it leads to novice golfer frustrations. We talk here a lot about the health of the game, and while a case can be made that this isn't "misleading", it sets unrealistic expectations.

Finally, I know people that have been "mislead", at least in terms of "I hit my x longer than that". Also the highest capper in the group. It has led to difficulty on the course that several of us know he doesn't need. I know here it's a dead horse, but in the real world, this is an actual, ongoing concern. The 2018 examples are egregious.

It also doesn't help when it gets moved off to WRX Club Techs because then it really is a dead horse. :deadhorse:

Edited by matchavez, 25 April 2018 - 02:30 PM.


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#70 kiwihacker

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 02:40 PM

View Postsoap1984, on 25 April 2018 - 11:25 AM, said:

The next logical step is to make a wedge stamped 60 degree but is actually 53 degrees...

That's the one anomaly though. The gap wedge seems to be sacrosanct at around 50°. The main variable is the gapping required to get you there from the jacked mid irons.

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#71 DeCuchi

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 02:42 PM

View Post1Mordrid1, on 25 April 2018 - 12:33 PM, said:

View PostDeCuchi, on 25 April 2018 - 11:12 AM, said:

View Post1Mordrid1, on 25 April 2018 - 10:38 AM, said:

View PostDeCuchi, on 25 April 2018 - 10:20 AM, said:

Why do people say these would go to the moon if they weren't jacked? They wouldn't? The 39* iron would launch and spin exactly the same whether it had 7,9, or 12 stamped on the bottom. They would perform exactly the same without the ego stroke. It's marketing driven plain and simple. I'm sure they'd be more user friendly with better gapping as most of the current releases would.

Completely false.... The extra mass, low CoG, and extra offset of a GI or SGI club creates a much higher peak flight than what you would see with a traditional blade with a similar loft.

So changing the number from 7 to 9 adds extra mass, low CoG, and creates a higher peak height?  I’m not comparing blades to SGI. The peak height of the given loft of the sgi iron is the same whether it says 7 or 9.  It performs exactly the same. It may launch higher and spin less than a blade, the mythical “launch window” may shift higher than a blade, but that’s not what I’m talking about.  Peak heights will be higher across the set whichever loft you pick vs a blade.  Each specific loft in a set will still travel the same distance in the same way regardless of the number you assign it on the bottom.

Wow...if you want to argue with redutcio ad absurdum then I will need an easel and some crayons to teach you physics.

Obviously changing the number does not add those things. Club design does. It is a cause and effect. Club designers were told to design irons with more distance. They realized that reducing spin could achieve this. The easiest way to reduce backspin is to decrease the loft. But simply reducing loft would leave you with a low trajectory with no stopping power.  So they knew nobody wants an 8 iron that flies low with no spin, so they had to find a way to change that. They knew one way to increase trajectory is with lower mass, cog, and more offset. By doing all of this they can create a club that spins less for extra distance but goes higher so that it can still have stopping power. So yes the loft is stronger but it is not as simple as that because simply strengthening lofts would turn scoring clubs into mid irons. Technology has allowed an average golfer to hit what use to be mid iron distances with what can still be considered an easier to hit scoring club.

Cool story bro, but you have bought the BS hook, line, and sinker. You have even memorized the jargon.  I understand the physics just fine. That so called “easier to hit scoring club” is actually just an easier to hit mid iron with a short iron label.  Why? Because “higher launch with less spin” just doesn’t sound as exciting, and no one brags about descent angles and peak heights.
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#72 leejohnkieh

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 03:00 PM

i'm just more annoyed with my friends who are playing jacked up lofts giving me smirks when i hit an 8 iron and he's hitting 9/pw when they are the same lofts.

FFS
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#73 Sean2

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 03:31 PM

View Postleejohnkieh, on 25 April 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

i'm just more annoyed with my friends who are playing jacked up lofts giving me smirks when i hit an 8 iron and he's hitting 9/pw when they are the same lofts.

FFS

Why? I have a friend whose 5-iron is 21.5º. He is so pleased how much farther he is hitting his new 5-iron versus his old, which was 27º. Yes, and when I hit a 7-iron he is hitting an 8 or 9. I couldn't care less. He's having fun, he feels it's money well spent, so where is the harm? Ultimately the scorecard doesn't care what club you hit.
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#74 dlygrisse

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 03:37 PM

The worst part is the 2* separation between the long irons.  If anything the separation between the longer irons should be bigger than the short irons.  

My gap wedge and my SW have 3 degrees between them and I get over 10 yards separation, but I have a hard time getting 10 yards between the long irons at 3 degrees.
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#75 Golfer827

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 06:20 PM

View Postmorgan1819, on 25 April 2018 - 09:14 AM, said:

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 25 April 2018 - 09:03 AM, said:

View Postmorgan1819, on 25 April 2018 - 08:34 AM, said:

Take a deep breath here.

Here is the other difference:  No one from Bridgestone is pumping these up, saying these pocketballz will fly 19 ballzier yards farther than your current 7 iron.  They are simply designed for the very low swing-speed golfer.

the b-stone website calls them "a revolution in distance" and that they will fly farther than any other iron with a "shot shape that golfers prefer".

There is no mention of low swing speed golfers.

They come stock with a high launch 84 gram steel Nippon Zelos 8 shaft.   "The ZELOS8 is easy to handle with an extremely smooth swing and gentle touch"

...or UST Recoil 670 F3.  75 grams, high launch.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I feel these are aimed towards slower swing-speeds.

Sorry, but I'm going to cannonball this one. I swing at about 65 MPH in the irons at last check. Used to have Steelhead XR's 4-PW with Recoils (660 ES's if I recall). Couldn't hit the 4 Iron and barely could hit the 5 iron.

That's a high launch shaft, surely it's aimed towards slow swing speeds as well. Couldn't keep the ball in the air.

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#76 kiwihacker

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 12:43 AM

View PostSean2, on 25 April 2018 - 03:31 PM, said:

View Postleejohnkieh, on 25 April 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

i'm just more annoyed with my friends who are playing jacked up lofts giving me smirks when i hit an 8 iron and he's hitting 9/pw when they are the same lofts.

FFS

Why? I have a friend whose 5-iron is 21.5º. He is so pleased how much farther he is hitting his new 5-iron versus his old, which was 27º. Yes, and when I hit a 7-iron he is hitting an 8 or 9. I couldn't care less. He's having fun, he feels it's money well spent, so where is the harm? Ultimately the scorecard doesn't care what club you hit.

It doesn't bother me in the least either that my friend is hitting a 24° 5 iron and I'm hitting a 27° 5 iron. Who cares as long as we both know our distances? I do find it amusing though that with the advent of hybrids and extra wedges almost everyone I know dropped the old 'hard to hit' 21° 3 iron in favour of an easier to hit hybrid. But with the jacking of lofts my buddies now have a hard to hit 21° iron back in the bag. Only it's got a 4 stamped on the bottom of it which I guess makes it easier to hit. :)
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#77 matchavez

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 12:58 AM

View Postkiwihacker, on 26 April 2018 - 12:43 AM, said:

View PostSean2, on 25 April 2018 - 03:31 PM, said:

View Postleejohnkieh, on 25 April 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

i'm just more annoyed with my friends who are playing jacked up lofts giving me smirks when i hit an 8 iron and he's hitting 9/pw when they are the same lofts.

FFS

Why? I have a friend whose 5-iron is 21.5º. He is so pleased how much farther he is hitting his new 5-iron versus his old, which was 27º. Yes, and when I hit a 7-iron he is hitting an 8 or 9. I couldn't care less. He's having fun, he feels it's money well spent, so where is the harm? Ultimately the scorecard doesn't care what club you hit.

It doesn't bother me in the least either that my friend is hitting a 24° 5 iron and I'm hitting a 27° 5 iron. Who cares as long as we both know our distances? I do find it amusing though that with the advent of hybrids and extra wedges almost everyone I know dropped the old 'hard to hit' 21° 3 iron in favour of an easier to hit hybrid. But with the jacking of lofts my buddies now have a hard to hit 21° iron back in the bag. Only it's got a 4 stamped on the bottom of it which I guess makes it easier to hit. :)

Like I said before... it isn't the good shots. Don't care about that. It's the unrealistic expectations that a guy has a "simple 7-iron" in his hands, borks it, and gets pissed. 35 'cap thinking of quitting, but not really quitting, but still being detrimental to himself. All because he was "keeping up", but the reality was that his level of difficulty is much higher. I can deal with a smirk, or whatever. It's just a bad cycle. Golf is hard. Why make it harder by setting up false expectations?

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#78 Petunia Sprinkle

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 02:00 AM

I wonder if OEMs jack lofts, in part, to sell more hybrids and wedges. A guy finally replaces his old clubs with brand new ones from Dick’s. At first, he’s stunned by how far he’s blasting his 8iron, but after a while, he’s getting too much from his pw, and even if it does catch the green, it rolls off the back. At the other end of the bag, he finds his 3, 4, and even 5 irons a bit too austere. So that’s three hybrids and a specialty wedge he has to buy.

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#79 kiwihacker

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 04:55 AM

View PostPetunia Sprinkle, on 26 April 2018 - 02:00 AM, said:

I wonder if OEMs jack lofts, in part, to sell more hybrids and wedges. A guy finally replaces his old clubs with brand new ones from Dick's. At first, he's stunned by how far he's blasting his 8iron, but after a while, he's getting too much from his pw, and even if it does catch the green, it rolls off the back. At the other end of the bag, he finds his 3, 4, and even 5 irons a bit too austere. So that's three hybrids and a specialty wedge he has to buy.

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#80 leejohnkieh

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 10:47 AM

View PostSean2, on 25 April 2018 - 03:31 PM, said:

View Postleejohnkieh, on 25 April 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

i'm just more annoyed with my friends who are playing jacked up lofts giving me smirks when i hit an 8 iron and he's hitting 9/pw when they are the same lofts.

FFS

Why? I have a friend whose 5-iron is 21.5º. He is so pleased how much farther he is hitting his new 5-iron versus his old, which was 27º. Yes, and when I hit a 7-iron he is hitting an 8 or 9. I couldn't care less. He's having fun, he feels it's money well spent, so where is the harm? Ultimately the scorecard doesn't care what club you hit.

I don't think your friend and my friend have the same personalities though lol.  He is a better player and gives me and other guys s*** because we're hitting a "club longer" so it becomes annoying.

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#81 Sean2

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 11:15 AM

View Postkiwihacker, on 26 April 2018 - 12:43 AM, said:

View PostSean2, on 25 April 2018 - 03:31 PM, said:

View Postleejohnkieh, on 25 April 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

i'm just more annoyed with my friends who are playing jacked up lofts giving me smirks when i hit an 8 iron and he's hitting 9/pw when they are the same lofts.

FFS

Why? I have a friend whose 5-iron is 21.5º. He is so pleased how much farther he is hitting his new 5-iron versus his old, which was 27º. Yes, and when I hit a 7-iron he is hitting an 8 or 9. I couldn't care less. He's having fun, he feels it's money well spent, so where is the harm? Ultimately the scorecard doesn't care what club you hit.

It doesn't bother me in the least either that my friend is hitting a 24° 5 iron and I'm hitting a 27° 5 iron. Who cares as long as we both know our distances? I do find it amusing though that with the advent of hybrids and extra wedges almost everyone I know dropped the old 'hard to hit' 21° 3 iron in favour of an easier to hit hybrid. But with the jacking of lofts my buddies now have a hard to hit 21° iron back in the bag. Only it's got a 4 stamped on the bottom of it which I guess makes it easier to hit. :)

Too true. My first iron is a 6 (27º), and I see a lot of folks struggle to hit today's 5-iron, let alone a 4.
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#82 kiwihacker

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 02:22 PM

View PostSean2, on 26 April 2018 - 11:15 AM, said:

View Postkiwihacker, on 26 April 2018 - 12:43 AM, said:

View PostSean2, on 25 April 2018 - 03:31 PM, said:

View Postleejohnkieh, on 25 April 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

i'm just more annoyed with my friends who are playing jacked up lofts giving me smirks when i hit an 8 iron and he's hitting 9/pw when they are the same lofts.

FFS

Why? I have a friend whose 5-iron is 21.5º. He is so pleased how much farther he is hitting his new 5-iron versus his old, which was 27º. Yes, and when I hit a 7-iron he is hitting an 8 or 9. I couldn't care less. He's having fun, he feels it's money well spent, so where is the harm? Ultimately the scorecard doesn't care what club you hit.

It doesn't bother me in the least either that my friend is hitting a 24° 5 iron and I'm hitting a 27° 5 iron. Who cares as long as we both know our distances? I do find it amusing though that with the advent of hybrids and extra wedges almost everyone I know dropped the old 'hard to hit' 21° 3 iron in favour of an easier to hit hybrid. But with the jacking of lofts my buddies now have a hard to hit 21° iron back in the bag. Only it's got a 4 stamped on the bottom of it which I guess makes it easier to hit. :)

Too true. My first iron is a 6 (27º), and I see a lot of folks struggle to hit today's 5-iron, let alone a 4.

If I'm carrying 4 wedges my first iron is a 5 iron (27°). But I like my 4 iron (24°) so I normally just carry 3.

I will concede that an advantage of your jacked lofts is that it enables you to carry an extra wedge. i.e. your 6 (27°) - GW(50°) = 6 clubs. My 5 (27°) - GW (50°) = 7 clubs. So the extra slot in the bag allows you to carry your 5 wedges. Which is a good thing.

If I upgraded to modern lofts I'd play 5 - GW meaning I could bag 4 wedges all the time. The 5 degree increments in the scoring clubs is what gets you there versus the 4 degree increments in my clubs.
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#83 Z1ggy16

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 02:56 PM

If they jack the lofts but then figured out a way to put 99% of the weight in the rear-ward area and mega low (so they flew to the moon) why does it matter what the static loft # is?

At the end of the day, you need X club to go Y distance with a landing angle of Z so it stops on the green. If your 29* 8i can still land with a 49 or 50* descent angle it should still be spinning like a 6i (normal) and be able to hold a green. If you want to brag to people and say you hit your 8i as far as your buddy hits his 6i... whatever.
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#84 matchavez

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 04:01 PM

View PostZ1ggy16, on 26 April 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

If they jack the lofts but then figured out a way to put 99% of the weight in the rear-ward area and mega low (so they flew to the moon) why does it matter what the static loft # is?

Because if that were the true benefit, it would make sense. Clubmakers are selling distance with accuracy clubs, and the people buying it don't know better. We talk a lot about how golf is "dying", yet this is the kind of tactical, real example where players with these monstrosities get frustrated, quit, or at best, take a long time to get better.

If it were a real benefit, you'd see something like US Kids clubs with completely jacked lofts, right? Instead of an 8-iron, US Kids 5-irons are 29º.

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#85 playa

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 04:38 PM

View Postfillwelix, on 25 April 2018 - 08:29 AM, said:

I know a lot of people get really annoyed at these conversations, "just hit what you hit and it doesn't matter what number is on the bottom", but this is really problematic to me. I think a lot of people get into these ____ measuring contests with how far the hit X club, regardless of whether or not they're aware of the loft jacking.

After that, they get a new set that has a 6 iron that's more like a 4 iron, and their swing absolutely does not cooperate with that low loft.

From there, they're not going to get hybrids and start their irons at a 7 or 8 iron, because "I'm a man, what, you think I can't hit a 6 iron???" because they've always been able to hit a 6 iron.

What we end up with is people gaming clubs they absolutely should not, but can't seem to understand that the clubs they have now are not the clubs they had then. If you'd ask someone 20 years ago "should a 60 year old amateur play a 4 iron?" they'd probably say no, if their swing speed wasn't high enough. But we see that more and more just because the same lofted club says "6" on the bottom.

For golfers who have a high enough swing speed, loft jacking is not a problem. They can hit a 4 iron, they can hit a loft-jacked 6 iron. No difference, no harm.

For most amateurs, especially those who are prideful about the days in the past, loft jacking is only hurting the game.
You have perfectly described the ego golfer conundrum. They want to hit their irons further and get off about how far they hit their 7/8/9 iron etc, but to be a real man you also have to have your irons starting at 3, or at worst 4. Super jacked modern lofts stroke the ego of distance with iron number obsessed golfers, but hurt the same guys when they struggle to hit what are essentially 1 irons with 4 stamped on them.

Edited by playa, 26 April 2018 - 04:40 PM.


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#86 puresurfr

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 05:22 PM

I play P790 and they definitely have stronger lofts and seem to be more forgiving as irons than a players Cb would be...I can hit a 21 deg P790 quite well but I find it much harder to hit he 21 deg Cobra Pro forged MB.  

*I play from the wrong set of tees and need every darn yard I can get

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#87 Z1ggy16

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 07:41 PM

View Postmatchavez, on 26 April 2018 - 04:01 PM, said:

View PostZ1ggy16, on 26 April 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

If they jack the lofts but then figured out a way to put 99% of the weight in the rear-ward area and mega low (so they flew to the moon) why does it matter what the static loft # is?

Because if that were the true benefit, it would make sense. Clubmakers are selling distance with accuracy clubs, and the people buying it don't know better. We talk a lot about how golf is "dying", yet this is the kind of tactical, real example where players with these monstrosities get frustrated, quit, or at best, take a long time to get better.

If it were a real benefit, you'd see something like US Kids clubs with completely jacked lofts, right? Instead of an 8-iron, US Kids 5-irons are 29º.
Right, the ultimate benefit is distance... but people are getting worked up because they put the number '7' on what's really a 5i. Okay.. If that's what you lose sleep over at night you must have a very stress-free life. They aren't really adding distance though (not tons at least) because loft for loft, the irons aren't really that much longer. Hit your jacked loft 7i 180 or your regular 5i 180, it's just a club that goes 180.
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#88 Sean2

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 07:52 PM

View Postleejohnkieh, on 26 April 2018 - 10:47 AM, said:

View PostSean2, on 25 April 2018 - 03:31 PM, said:

View Postleejohnkieh, on 25 April 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

i'm just more annoyed with my friends who are playing jacked up lofts giving me smirks when i hit an 8 iron and he's hitting 9/pw when they are the same lofts.

FFS

Why? I have a friend whose 5-iron is 21.5º. He is so pleased how much farther he is hitting his new 5-iron versus his old, which was 27º. Yes, and when I hit a 7-iron he is hitting an 8 or 9. I couldn't care less. He's having fun, he feels it's money well spent, so where is the harm? Ultimately the scorecard doesn't care what club you hit.

I don't think your friend and my friend have the same personalities though lol.  He is a better player and gives me and other guys s*** because we're hitting a "club longer" so it becomes annoying.

I guess he needs something to help him feel better about himself. :-)

A lot of ego in this game. lol
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#89 Sean2

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 07:56 PM

View Postplaya, on 26 April 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

View Postfillwelix, on 25 April 2018 - 08:29 AM, said:

I know a lot of people get really annoyed at these conversations, "just hit what you hit and it doesn't matter what number is on the bottom", but this is really problematic to me. I think a lot of people get into these ____ measuring contests with how far the hit X club, regardless of whether or not they're aware of the loft jacking.

After that, they get a new set that has a 6 iron that's more like a 4 iron, and their swing absolutely does not cooperate with that low loft.

From there, they're not going to get hybrids and start their irons at a 7 or 8 iron, because "I'm a man, what, you think I can't hit a 6 iron???" because they've always been able to hit a 6 iron.

What we end up with is people gaming clubs they absolutely should not, but can't seem to understand that the clubs they have now are not the clubs they had then. If you'd ask someone 20 years ago "should a 60 year old amateur play a 4 iron?" they'd probably say no, if their swing speed wasn't high enough. But we see that more and more just because the same lofted club says "6" on the bottom.

For golfers who have a high enough swing speed, loft jacking is not a problem. They can hit a 4 iron, they can hit a loft-jacked 6 iron. No difference, no harm.

For most amateurs, especially those who are prideful about the days in the past, loft jacking is only hurting the game.
You have perfectly described the ego golfer conundrum. They want to hit their irons further and get off about how far they hit their 7/8/9 iron etc, but to be a real man you also have to have your irons starting at 3, or at worst 4. Super jacked modern lofts stroke the ego of distance with iron number obsessed golfers, but hurt the same guys when they struggle to hit what are essentially 1 irons with 4 stamped on them.

Yeah, I said something similar earlier, to wit that I see a number of players struggle with their 4 and 5-irons. (have trouble getting them in the air). My first iron is a 6 at 27º of loft. That used to be my old 5-iron. I couldn't hit the new 5-irons...I don't have the swing speed. I have a 25º 5-hybrid that goes high and gives me the distance I need. For me, it's a no-brainer. :-)
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#90 matchavez

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 04:45 AM

View PostZ1ggy16, on 26 April 2018 - 07:41 PM, said:

View Postmatchavez, on 26 April 2018 - 04:01 PM, said:

View PostZ1ggy16, on 26 April 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

If they jack the lofts but then figured out a way to put 99% of the weight in the rear-ward area and mega low (so they flew to the moon) why does it matter what the static loft # is?

Because if that were the true benefit, it would make sense. Clubmakers are selling distance with accuracy clubs, and the people buying it don't know better. We talk a lot about how golf is "dying", yet this is the kind of tactical, real example where players with these monstrosities get frustrated, quit, or at best, take a long time to get better.

If it were a real benefit, you'd see something like US Kids clubs with completely jacked lofts, right? Instead of an 8-iron, US Kids 5-irons are 29º.
Right, the ultimate benefit is distance... but people are getting worked up because they put the number '7' on what's really a 5i. Okay.. If that's what you lose sleep over at night you must have a very stress-free life. They aren't really adding distance though (not tons at least) because loft for loft, the irons aren't really that much longer. Hit your jacked loft 7i 180 or your regular 5i 180, it's just a club that goes 180.

If you still think this is about distance, you're completely missing the point.


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