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Loft jacking... Did I find the worst offender?


207 replies to this topic

#31 morgan1819

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:17 AM

View Postkiwihacker, on 25 April 2018 - 09:14 AM, said:

View Postmorgan1819, on 25 April 2018 - 08:34 AM, said:

Take a deep breath here.

You all realize these are HYBRID irons, right?  The sole is about 2" wide, and they have very light stock shafts.

The ball would go to the moon with standard lofts.

Here is the other difference:  No one from Bridgestone is pumping these up, saying these pocketballz will fly 19 ballzier yards farther than your current 7 iron.  They are simply designed for the very low swing-speed golfer.

The golfers that would purchase hybrid irons aren't looking to stroke their ego anyway.  They simply want to get around the golf course.
...

Ok so I checked out the lofts on their CB forged iron. Their 5 - 9 iron is exactly the same as my 4 - 8 iron. 24° - 39°. All well and good. Jacked lofts don't matter right. But this is what I don't like. They know the Gap wedge has to be 50° so they jump 11° in two clubs to a 44° PW and 50° gap wedge. In my set I go 43° 9iron, 47° PW and 50-52° gap wedge. It's basically the same as me just dropping the pitching wedge from my current set to accommdate the jacked lofts. That would leave about a 30m gap from my 9 iron to my gap wedge which would suck. Last time I checked these are still the scoring clubs right?


I play J15CB's , and have a 50* gap wedge.  Works fine.

...


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#32 Itsjustagame

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:25 AM

Geez do I love it when WXR's try to save the "average golfer" from those unscrupulous marketers. What where they buying before "jacked lofts"?Probably something just as unsuited to their game, because their friends told them they needed super stiff shafts and blades.
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#33 kiwihacker

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:29 AM

View Postmorgan1819, on 25 April 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

View Postkiwihacker, on 25 April 2018 - 09:14 AM, said:

View Postmorgan1819, on 25 April 2018 - 08:34 AM, said:

Take a deep breath here.

You all realize these are HYBRID irons, right?  The sole is about 2" wide, and they have very light stock shafts.

The ball would go to the moon with standard lofts.

Here is the other difference:  No one from Bridgestone is pumping these up, saying these pocketballz will fly 19 ballzier yards farther than your current 7 iron.  They are simply designed for the very low swing-speed golfer.

The golfers that would purchase hybrid irons aren't looking to stroke their ego anyway.  They simply want to get around the golf course.
...

Ok so I checked out the lofts on their CB forged iron. Their 5 - 9 iron is exactly the same as my 4 - 8 iron. 24° - 39°. All well and good. Jacked lofts don't matter right. But this is what I don't like. They know the Gap wedge has to be 50° so they jump 11° in two clubs to a 44° PW and 50° gap wedge. In my set I go 43° 9iron, 47° PW and 50-52° gap wedge. It's basically the same as me just dropping the pitching wedge from my current set to accommdate the jacked lofts. That would leave about a 30m gap from my 9 iron to my gap wedge which would suck. Last time I checked these are still the scoring clubs right?


I play J15CB's , and have a 50* gap wedge.  Works fine.

...

So the gapping from your PW to GW is Ok? How far do you hit them both?

My gaps are approximately as follows:

9 (43°) iron 120-125m
PW (47°) 100-105m
Gap wedge (50°) 90-95m.

Dropping the PW would leave a 30m gap.
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#34 morgan1819

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:41 AM

View Postkiwihacker, on 25 April 2018 - 09:29 AM, said:

View Postmorgan1819, on 25 April 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

View Postkiwihacker, on 25 April 2018 - 09:14 AM, said:

View Postmorgan1819, on 25 April 2018 - 08:34 AM, said:

Take a deep breath here.

You all realize these are HYBRID irons, right?  The sole is about 2" wide, and they have very light stock shafts.

The ball would go to the moon with standard lofts.

Here is the other difference:  No one from Bridgestone is pumping these up, saying these pocketballz will fly 19 ballzier yards farther than your current 7 iron.  They are simply designed for the very low swing-speed golfer.

The golfers that would purchase hybrid irons aren't looking to stroke their ego anyway.  They simply want to get around the golf course.
...

Ok so I checked out the lofts on their CB forged iron. Their 5 - 9 iron is exactly the same as my 4 - 8 iron. 24° - 39°. All well and good. Jacked lofts don't matter right. But this is what I don't like. They know the Gap wedge has to be 50° so they jump 11° in two clubs to a 44° PW and 50° gap wedge. In my set I go 43° 9iron, 47° PW and 50-52° gap wedge. It's basically the same as me just dropping the pitching wedge from my current set to accommdate the jacked lofts. That would leave about a 30m gap from my 9 iron to my gap wedge which would suck. Last time I checked these are still the scoring clubs right?


I play J15CB's , and have a 50* gap wedge.  Works fine.

...

So the gapping from your PW to GW is Ok? How far do you hit them both?

My gaps are approximately as follows:

9 (43°) iron 120-125m
PW (47°) 100-105m
Gap wedge (50°) 90-95m.

Dropping the PW would leave a 30m gap.

GolfWRX distances, or real world?  j/k

I think the J15CB's may be different than the current CB's, because my 9/PW/50* are pretty consistent 12 yard gaps.

I do agree with your point about newer lofts sometimes requiring adding or changing a wedge.  That's the real annoyance with hotter lofts in players clubs ... in some cases the manufacturers are adding another $150 to the sale, to add/rearrange wedges.

...

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#35 1Mordrid1

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:53 AM

Drivers used to be 11/43.5.  Now they are typically 9/45.5. We should start a loft jacking thread on that too. Maybe there should be a movement to make everybody play blades. And then after that we can make everyone play the exact same brand of blades so that everything will be fair and distances will be comparable !

The problem here is not "loft jacking". It is MACHISMO. Some better golfers get offended when someone of lesser skill thinks they can hit the ball further. WHO FREAKING CARES ! At the end of the day it should be about the numbers on your scorecard and how it relates to your game, not about the numbers on the bottom of someone else's club.

Edited by 1Mordrid1, 25 April 2018 - 09:54 AM.

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#36 kiwihacker

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:55 AM

Yeah well the interesting thing is the manufacturers still seem to know the gap wedge and sand wedge have to be approximately 50° and 55° respectively. So they can Jack the lofts all they like in the 4 - 8 irons  but then need 5-6° increments instead of the traditional 4° increments to get them home to the 50° gap wedge. But having a set where you call two clubs wedge 1 and wedge 2 BEFORE you get to the Gap wedge is ridiculous.
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#37 BrockPSU

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:55 AM

View Postmorgan1819, on 25 April 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

View Postkiwihacker, on 25 April 2018 - 09:29 AM, said:

View Postmorgan1819, on 25 April 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

View Postkiwihacker, on 25 April 2018 - 09:14 AM, said:

View Postmorgan1819, on 25 April 2018 - 08:34 AM, said:

Take a deep breath here.

You all realize these are HYBRID irons, right?  The sole is about 2" wide, and they have very light stock shafts.

The ball would go to the moon with standard lofts.

Here is the other difference:  No one from Bridgestone is pumping these up, saying these pocketballz will fly 19 ballzier yards farther than your current 7 iron.  They are simply designed for the very low swing-speed golfer.

The golfers that would purchase hybrid irons aren't looking to stroke their ego anyway.  They simply want to get around the golf course.
...

Ok so I checked out the lofts on their CB forged iron. Their 5 - 9 iron is exactly the same as my 4 - 8 iron. 24° - 39°. All well and good. Jacked lofts don't matter right. But this is what I don't like. They know the Gap wedge has to be 50° so they jump 11° in two clubs to a 44° PW and 50° gap wedge. In my set I go 43° 9iron, 47° PW and 50-52° gap wedge. It's basically the same as me just dropping the pitching wedge from my current set to accommdate the jacked lofts. That would leave about a 30m gap from my 9 iron to my gap wedge which would suck. Last time I checked these are still the scoring clubs right?


I play J15CB's , and have a 50* gap wedge.  Works fine.

...

So the gapping from your PW to GW is Ok? How far do you hit them both?

My gaps are approximately as follows:

9 (43°) iron 120-125m
PW (47°) 100-105m
Gap wedge (50°) 90-95m.

Dropping the PW would leave a 30m gap.

GolfWRX distances, or real world?  j/k

I think the J15CB's may be different than the current CB's, because my 9/PW/50* are pretty consistent 12 yard gaps.

I do agree with your point about newer lofts sometimes requiring adding or changing a wedge.  That's the real annoyance with hotter lofts in players clubs ... in some cases the manufacturers are adding another $150 to the sale, to add/rearrange wedges.

...

That is exactly why I moved to blades. There is always usually a gap between the gap and pitching wedge and when buying GI irons anymore your looking at another wedge on top of their price increase for no actual improvement in irons. All equipment has been in the last ten years is the loft change. Nobody is hitting anything longer then what they normally were because of technology. I can honestly say my 8 iron for example has been 155-160 for the last 10 years. It amazes me what the average golfer thinks they are getting.
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#38 kiwihacker

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:58 AM

View Post1Mordrid1, on 25 April 2018 - 09:53 AM, said:

Drivers used to be 11/43.5.  Now they are typically 9/45.5. We should start a loft jacking thread on that too. Maybe there should be a movement to make everybody play blades. And then after that we can make everyone play the exact same brand of blades so that everything will be fair and distances will be comparable !

The problem here is not "loft jacking". It is MACHISMO. Some better golfers get offended when someone of lesser skill thinks they can hit the ball further. WHO FREAKING CARES ! At the end of the day it should be about the numbers on your scorecard and how it relates to your game, not about the numbers on the bottom of someone else's club.

As I've tried to explain it's the gapping required to get to the 50° gap wedge that bothers me.
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#39 Torontogolfaddict

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:12 AM

Who cares? Why do wrxers think every joe golfer is same as you? They just want to enjoy the game. They do not care blade or shovel. Jacked up clubs are for them who want anything make game easier. "Traditional"? who cares?

Edited by Torontogolfaddict, 25 April 2018 - 10:13 AM.


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#40 DeCuchi

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:20 AM

Why do people say these would go to the moon if they weren’t jacked? They wouldn’t? The 39* iron would launch and spin exactly the same whether it had 7,9, or 12 stamped on the bottom. They would perform exactly the same without the ego stroke. It’s marketing driven plain and simple. I’m sure they’d be more user friendly with better gapping as most of the current releases would.

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#41 Nessism

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:33 AM

View Post1Mordrid1, on 25 April 2018 - 09:53 AM, said:

Drivers used to be 11/43.5.  Now they are typically 9/45.5. We should start a loft jacking thread on that too.

Go into the Tech (Clubmaking) forum and you will find a LOT of guys acknowledging that most off the shelf drivers are way too long and that something shorter and with more loft would help the average golfer a fair bit.

Thank you for making my point.
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#42 No Catchy Nickname

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:36 AM

I think the real issue here is that there is a PW1 and PW2 in the set. Come on! Couldn't they think up a better way to name the PW2? I know we already have the AW and GW, but surely there must be something else? I vote "BW" for "Bombing Wedge". So the set could go: PW, BW, GW, AW, SW.
And everyone would be happy.
Right?
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#43 1Mordrid1

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:38 AM

View PostDeCuchi, on 25 April 2018 - 10:20 AM, said:

Why do people say these would go to the moon if they weren't jacked? They wouldn't? The 39* iron would launch and spin exactly the same whether it had 7,9, or 12 stamped on the bottom. They would perform exactly the same without the ego stroke. It's marketing driven plain and simple. I'm sure they'd be more user friendly with better gapping as most of the current releases would.

Completely false.... The extra mass, low CoG, and extra offset of a GI or SGI club creates a much higher peak flight than what you would see with a traditional blade with a similar loft.
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#44 Nessism

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:38 AM

View PostNo Catchy Nickname, on 25 April 2018 - 10:36 AM, said:

I think the real issue here is that there is a PW1 and PW2 in the set. Come on! Couldn't they think up a better way to name the PW2? I know we already have the AW and GW, but surely there must be something else? I vote "BW" for "Bombing Wedge". So the set could go: PW, BW, GW, AW, SW.
And everyone would be happy.
Right?

Titleist AP1 uses two pitching wedges too.  No way I buy a set configured that way.
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#45 Rory4Pres

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:39 AM

Haven't read the entire forum but this post is insane.  They clearly are only focused on the 6/7 iron performance to "wow" testers with their demo.

Reminds me of car manufacturers who focus on 0 to 60 so much that they alter their gears and red lines to minimize the number of shifts needed to get to 60.

Good post OP.


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#46 LaymanM

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:40 AM

I'm pretty darn happy with my current set, Tommy Armour TA1.

5 - 24*
6 - 27*
7 - 30*
8 - 35*
9 - 40*
PW - 45*
AW - 50*

I haven't had many complaints with gapping.  If anything, I would bend the 5 and 6 iron a degree strong.  I have a bit of gap between my 3 hybrid and 5 iron.  I dont have that distance shot often so it's not a big deal.  I'm hitting a lot of greens and hitting 3/4 shots isn't that big of a deal.  

GAPS with my Apex MB are certainly tighter but I think on a bad day, but scoring better with my Jacked Lofts.
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#47 1Mordrid1

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:42 AM

View PostNessism, on 25 April 2018 - 10:33 AM, said:

View Post1Mordrid1, on 25 April 2018 - 09:53 AM, said:

Drivers used to be 11/43.5.  Now they are typically 9/45.5. We should start a loft jacking thread on that too.

Go into the Tech (Clubmaking) forum and you will find a LOT of guys acknowledging that most off the shelf drivers are way too long and that something shorter and with more loft would help the average golfer a fair bit.

Thank you for making my point.


So a shorter length driver would help a lot of players but a shorter length 150 yard club won't ?

Thank you for making my point !
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#48 brew4eagle

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:45 AM

Reading this makes me love my 21* 3 iron through 47* P set up even more, guess I'm 'old school'.
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#49 No Catchy Nickname

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:47 AM

View PostNessism, on 25 April 2018 - 10:38 AM, said:

View PostNo Catchy Nickname, on 25 April 2018 - 10:36 AM, said:

I think the real issue here is that there is a PW1 and PW2 in the set. Come on! Couldn't they think up a better way to name the PW2? I know we already have the AW and GW, but surely there must be something else? I vote "BW" for "Bombing Wedge". So the set could go: PW, BW, GW, AW, SW.
And everyone would be happy.
Right?

Titleist AP1 uses two pitching wedges too.  No way I buy a set configured that way.

Really? So a "PW2" is now a thing!?
:beee:
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7w  TaylorMade V-steel, Quadra Fire Express RB 6SX
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Irons (4i-PW): Mizuno MP18 PX6.0 @ + 1/2"   
Wedges: Callaway MD2 52* S and 58* (U, S, or T-Grind depending on how I feel)                    
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#50 Nessism

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:54 AM

View Post1Mordrid1, on 25 April 2018 - 10:42 AM, said:

View PostNessism, on 25 April 2018 - 10:33 AM, said:

View Post1Mordrid1, on 25 April 2018 - 09:53 AM, said:

Drivers used to be 11/43.5.  Now they are typically 9/45.5. We should start a loft jacking thread on that too.

Go into the Tech (Clubmaking) forum and you will find a LOT of guys acknowledging that most off the shelf drivers are way too long and that something shorter and with more loft would help the average golfer a fair bit.

Thank you for making my point.


So a shorter length driver would help a lot of players but a shorter length 150 yard club won't ?

Thank you for making my point !

I hit my Mizuno Hot Metal 9 iron (40 degrees and 35.75" long) 150 yards.

Another data point...Ping G400 9 iron is 39.5 degrees and 35.5" long.

The closest club to that in the JGR set is the PW1 which is 38 degrees and 36.5" long which is clearly longer.


What was your point again?

Edited by Nessism, 25 April 2018 - 10:55 AM.

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#51 SavageCy

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 11:08 AM

The whole topic of jacked lofts has been beaten to death on here already. Use whatever works for you, The End...until the next jacked loft topic is created of course.
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#52 DeCuchi

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 11:12 AM

View Post1Mordrid1, on 25 April 2018 - 10:38 AM, said:

View PostDeCuchi, on 25 April 2018 - 10:20 AM, said:

Why do people say these would go to the moon if they weren't jacked? They wouldn't? The 39* iron would launch and spin exactly the same whether it had 7,9, or 12 stamped on the bottom. They would perform exactly the same without the ego stroke. It's marketing driven plain and simple. I'm sure they'd be more user friendly with better gapping as most of the current releases would.

Completely false.... The extra mass, low CoG, and extra offset of a GI or SGI club creates a much higher peak flight than what you would see with a traditional blade with a similar loft.

So changing the number from 7 to 9 adds extra mass, low CoG, and creates a higher peak height?  I’m not comparing blades to SGI. The peak height of the given loft of the sgi iron is the same whether it says 7 or 9.  It performs exactly the same. It may launch higher and spin less than a blade, the mythical “launch window” may shift higher than a blade, but that’s not what I’m talking about.  Peak heights will be higher across the set whichever loft you pick vs a blade.  Each specific loft in a set will still travel the same distance in the same way regardless of the number you assign it on the bottom.

Edited by DeCuchi, 25 April 2018 - 11:28 AM.

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you failed to plan!

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#53 Bad9

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 11:20 AM

View Post1Mordrid1, on 25 April 2018 - 10:38 AM, said:

View PostDeCuchi, on 25 April 2018 - 10:20 AM, said:

Why do people say these would go to the moon if they weren't jacked? They wouldn't? The 39* iron would launch and spin exactly the same whether it had 7,9, or 12 stamped on the bottom. They would perform exactly the same without the ego stroke. It's marketing driven plain and simple. I'm sure they'd be more user friendly with better gapping as most of the current releases would.

Completely false.... The extra mass, low CoG, and extra offset of a GI or SGI club creates a much higher peak flight than what you would see with a traditional blade with a similar loft.

Tom Wishon would disagree with you.
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#54 Bad9

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 11:23 AM

View PostNo Catchy Nickname, on 25 April 2018 - 10:47 AM, said:

View PostNessism, on 25 April 2018 - 10:38 AM, said:

View PostNo Catchy Nickname, on 25 April 2018 - 10:36 AM, said:

I think the real issue here is that there is a PW1 and PW2 in the set. Come on! Couldn't they think up a better way to name the PW2? I know we already have the AW and GW, but surely there must be something else? I vote "BW" for "Bombing Wedge". So the set could go: PW, BW, GW, AW, SW.
And everyone would be happy.
Right?

Titleist AP1 uses two pitching wedges too.  No way I buy a set configured that way.

Really? So a "PW2" is now a thing!?
:beee:

Yup. Obviously the AP3 doesn't include the W2 but based on virtually identical lofts of the AP1 it should.
                                       LOFT 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 P W W2                                                   AP1 - - 21° 24° 27° 30° 34° 38° 43° 48° 53°
AP3 - 19° 22° 25° 28° 31° 35° 39° 43° 48°

Edited by Bad9, 25 April 2018 - 11:26 AM.

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#55 soap1984

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 11:25 AM

The next logical step is to make a wedge stamped 60 degree but is actually 53 degrees...

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#56 DeCuchi

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 11:29 AM

View Postsoap1984, on 25 April 2018 - 11:25 AM, said:

The next logical step is to make a wedge stamped 60 degree but is actually 53 degrees...

BRILLIANT!!!! 🤣🤣🤣
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#57 lil'mike

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 11:43 AM

I just wish they did the gapping the same between each iron.  The only thing I think is bad and actually ridiculous about the jacked lofts in that I need more wedges and I have to relearn some distances.

As a mid handicapper is it preferred that some one like me has to carry four wedges now?  PW=43, GW=47, GW=52 and a SW=56.  I still need mid to long irons for distances that are needed on some par 4's and also on long par 3's where a 4H is too long so I use a 4i or 5i so these lofts make for some adjustments and potential yardage gaps which I am still working on.  Now part of my thinking is "one less club" then I used to hit which works out to be about the same lofted club and with more height on the shot which doesn't hurt.

I personally don't care if I have to hit a 5 iron and someone I golf with hits a 7 iron.  It would be nice if they had a "standard" for lofts and kept them closer to the old lofts.  Then if someone wanted to be the long hitter, he could order them just stronger lofted as an option, not as the norm.

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#58 jdang307

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 11:43 AM

These irons are stamped on the JDM scale. So 5 is a 4 (still jacked, but makes more sense), 6 is a 5, etc. etc.

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#59 Sean2

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 11:59 AM

View Postago33, on 25 April 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

Why do jacked lofts matter?

Yeah, I don't get it either. I think some people get upset when someone in their 4some, for example, hits an 8-iron and they had to hit a 7 or 6.

Not too long ago a stock 5-iron was 27º, now some are 21.5º. Who cares? If the clubs you are using are getting the job done, what difference does it make what the number on the sole is?
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#60 BrockPSU

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 12:09 PM

View Postsoap1984, on 25 April 2018 - 11:25 AM, said:

The next logical step is to make a wedge stamped 60 degree but is actually 53 degrees...

The sad part is that will probably eventually happen at this rate....

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