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Loft jacking... Did I find the worst offender?


207 replies to this topic

#1 matchavez

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 01:14 AM

Bridgestone JGR Hybrid Forged Irons...
5/22
6/24
7/26
8/29...

Yes, that's an "Eight Iron" with a 29º loft. Is this officially the most ridiculously loft-jacked set of irons? Can you find anything more than that?

Edited by matchavez, 25 April 2018 - 01:15 AM.


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#2 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 01:24 AM

View Postmatchavez, on 25 April 2018 - 01:14 AM, said:

Bridgestone JGR Hybrid Forged Irons...
5/22
6/24
7/26
8/29...

Yes, that's an "Eight Iron" with a 29º loft. Is this officially the most ridiculously loft-jacked set of irons? Can you find anything more than that?

Wow!  The spec sheet is comedy. Keep going. 5 and 6 degrees between your scoring clubs.  True insanity.

https://www.bridgest...r-hybrid-forged

9        33
PW 1 38
PW 2 44
AW    50
9.5* Titleist 917 D3, KKDC 70 TX,  43.5"
14* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X 42"
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#3 kiwihacker

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 01:25 AM

What are the 9 and Pitching wedge?
Cobra King F6 Driver
15° Cleveland Launcher 3 wood
20.5°& 23° Cleveland DST Launcher hybrids
Mizuno MP 58 4-PW irons
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#4 kiwihacker

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 01:36 AM

The crazy part is they start at 22° and end at 50°. With 4° loft increments that's the old school 3 - PW

The comparison is nuts.
Modern  Old school
3  22  22
4  24  26
5  26  30
6  29  34
7  33  38
8  38  42
9  44  46
PW 50  50
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#5 puresurfr

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 03:06 AM

View Postmatchavez, on 25 April 2018 - 01:14 AM, said:

Bridgestone JGR Hybrid Forged Irons...
5/22
6/24
7/26
8/29...

Yes, that's an "Eight Iron" with a 29º loft. Is this officially the most ridiculously loft-jacked set of irons? Can you find anything more than that?

Mens 2017 Epic Star Product Specs

Name Loft Availability Standard Length Lie Offset Swing Weight #4 18° RH / LH 39.50" 60.00° 0.220 C8 #5 20.5° RH / LH 38.875" 60.50° 0.200 C8 #6 23° RH / LH 38.25" 61.25° 0.180 C8 #7 26° RH / LH 37.625" 62.00° 0.160 C8 #8 30° RH / LH 37.00" 62.50° 0.150 C8 #9 34.5° RH / LH 36.50" 63.00° 0.140 C8 PW 39° RH / LH 36.00" 63.50° 0.130 C8 AW 44° RH / LH 35.75" 64.00° 0.120 C8 GW 49° RH / LH 35.50" 64.00° 0.110 C8 SW 54° RH / LH 35.25" 64.00° 0.100 C8

Edited by puresurfr, 25 April 2018 - 03:08 AM.


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#6 puresurfr

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 03:12 AM

Sorry a bit jumbled

5i - 20.5*
6i - 23*
7i - 26*
8i - 30*
9i - 34.5*
PW - 39*

You can also Power Spec these to start with a 37* PW and a 18.5* 5 iron

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#7 Bye

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 03:26 AM

I sometime wonder if the OEM's think people wont notice if the just change the numbers on the bottom of the club.
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#8 matchavez

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 04:07 AM

View Postkiwihacker, on 25 April 2018 - 01:36 AM, said:

The crazy part is they start at 22° and end at 50°. With 4° loft increments that's the old school 3 - PW

The comparison is nuts.
Modern  Old school
3  22  22
4  24  26
5  26  30
6  29  34
7  33  38
8  38  42
9  44  46
PW 50  50

I know very well that these are on an arc, and not linear, but here's a 29-point comparison in stupid text:  

JGRs  5-6-7--8---9----P-----2-----A
Trad  3---4---5---6---7---8---9---P

i200  4---5--6---7---8---9---W----A

I understand it's all about performance, and what it makes the ball do, but even the most ardent SGI loft-jack supporters have to agree that this looks like marketing dictated this stuff. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by matchavez, 25 April 2018 - 04:10 AM.


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#9 Itsjustagame

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 05:00 AM

Damn marketing guys. What will they think of next. $500 putters and $350 driver shafts!
BBA 815 10.5 Rogue Max
XR 5 wood
XR 3/4/5 Hybrid
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#10 Golfer827

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 05:16 AM

View Postmatchavez, on 25 April 2018 - 01:14 AM, said:

Bridgestone JGR Hybrid Forged Irons...
5/22
6/24
7/26
8/29...

Yes, that's an "Eight Iron" with a 29º loft. Is this officially the most ridiculously loft-jacked set of irons? Can you find anything more than that?

Callaway Rogue X:

5i: 21
6i: 24
7i: 27
8i: 31.5
9i: 36
PW: 41
AW: 46

Starts at 3 degree increments, up to 5 degree increments.

The biggest issue, according to the YouTube testers is those loft are tough for any normal amateur to play unless they have some serious speed. Hence the need for combo sets or get them into hybrids.

Honestly, makes me want to trade in my AP1’s and get AP2’s and have a legitimate 4 and 5 Hybrid before starting at 6 iron.

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Irons: ????????
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#11 DeCuchi

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 08:18 AM

Holy crap, they’ve loft jacked the loft jacks!
You didn't plan to fail,
you failed to plan!
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#12 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 08:27 AM

To be fair, the same company made the j38s and the j40 dpcs.  This is kindof like when a child star flames out later in life.  You try following up something like the j40 line.  They probably just lost their mind.  Bridgestone forged is the Gary Coleman of golf club lines - great young, somewhat questionable later.
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#13 Kmac

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 08:29 AM

who cares!

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#14 fillwelix

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 08:29 AM

I know a lot of people get really annoyed at these conversations, "just hit what you hit and it doesn't matter what number is on the bottom", but this is really problematic to me. I think a lot of people get into these ____ measuring contests with how far the hit X club, regardless of whether or not they're aware of the loft jacking.

After that, they get a new set that has a 6 iron that's more like a 4 iron, and their swing absolutely does not cooperate with that low loft.

From there, they're not going to get hybrids and start their irons at a 7 or 8 iron, because "I'm a man, what, you think I can't hit a 6 iron???" because they've always been able to hit a 6 iron.

What we end up with is people gaming clubs they absolutely should not, but can't seem to understand that the clubs they have now are not the clubs they had then. If you'd ask someone 20 years ago "should a 60 year old amateur play a 4 iron?" they'd probably say no, if their swing speed wasn't high enough. But we see that more and more just because the same lofted club says "6" on the bottom.

For golfers who have a high enough swing speed, loft jacking is not a problem. They can hit a 4 iron, they can hit a loft-jacked 6 iron. No difference, no harm.

For most amateurs, especially those who are prideful about the days in the past, loft jacking is only hurting the game.
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#15 ago33

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 08:33 AM

Why do jacked lofts matter?

-----Current Gamers-----

Callaway Epic Sub Zero 9............................PX HZRDUS T1100 65 6.5
Tour Edge CBX 15........................................PX HZRDUS T1100 85 6.5
Taylormade UDI 2.........................................KBS Tour V 125
Mizuno MP-25 4-9........................................KBS Tour V 125
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#16 morgan1819

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 08:34 AM

Take a deep breath here.

You all realize these are HYBRID irons, right?  The sole is about 2" wide, and they have very light stock shafts.

The ball would go to the moon with standard lofts.

Here is the other difference:  No one from Bridgestone is pumping these up, saying these pocketballz will fly 19 ballzier yards farther than your current 7 iron.  They are simply designed for the very low swing-speed golfer.

The golfers that would purchase hybrid irons aren't looking to stroke their ego anyway.  They simply want to get around the golf course.
...

Edited by morgan1819, 25 April 2018 - 08:52 AM.


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#17 Kmac

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 08:35 AM

They dont!

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#18 pmang

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 08:37 AM

Ultra jacked lofts BLOW!!
Ping G400 Max 10.5* Alta 55 S
Ping G400 3 & 5 FW Alta 65 S
Ping G400 22* Hybrid Alta CB70 S
Mizuno JPX900 HM 5-PW Modus 105 S
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Titleist SM7 58* M Grind
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#19 cgasucks

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 08:40 AM

Damn...that 8 iron loft is almost the same loft as my 5 iron.
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#20 Nessism

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 08:47 AM

View Postago33, on 25 April 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

Why do jacked lofts matter?

Because they are deceptive and some of us, apparently not you, think that's dishonest.  Not to mention, people that buy such clubs have to totally relearn their distances and that process is not adding any value, other than maybe stroking the ego of people that don't know better.

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#21 rawdog

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 08:50 AM

One man's offender is another man's savior.

I like the jacked lofts in my irons. I was able to gap them nicely and they fly plenty high.

Coupling my lofts with the SL concept, and I literally don't have enough time to explain the nuances of "what club I just hit."

Edited by rawdog, 25 April 2018 - 08:51 AM.

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Graffaloy ProLaunch Axis Blue @41.5" 7W = 23*
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6I = 24*   7I = 29*   8I = 34*   9I = 39*   PW = 44*   GW = 49*   SW = 54*   LW = 59*
Odyssey #9 HT Metal X Milled @33.5"
Maxfli SoftFli

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#22 rawdog

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 08:52 AM

View PostNessism, on 25 April 2018 - 08:47 AM, said:

View Postago33, on 25 April 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

Why do jacked lofts matter?

Because they are deceptive and some of us, apparently not you, think that's dishonest.  Not to mention, people that buy such clubs have to totally relearn their distances and that process is not adding any value, other than maybe stroking the ego of people that don't know better.

I don't mean to pick on you but I still do wonder why (for some) ignorance on the part of the consumer is viewed as dishonesty by the producer.
Cobra LTD Driver
Aldila Rogue Black, 9.5* @44.5"
In1Zone Single Length Fairway Woods

Graffaloy ProLaunch Axis Blue @41.5" 5W = 19*
Graffaloy ProLaunch Axis Blue @41.5" 7W = 23*
Cobra F7 One Length Irons
Nippon Modus 105 Stiff @ 36.5"
6I = 24*   7I = 29*   8I = 34*   9I = 39*   PW = 44*   GW = 49*   SW = 54*   LW = 59*
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#23 duffer987

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 08:58 AM

View Postmorgan1819, on 25 April 2018 - 08:34 AM, said:

Take a deep breath here.

You all realize these are HYBRID irons, right?  The sole is about 2" wide, and they have very light stock shafts.

The ball would go to the moon with standard lofts.

Here is the other difference:  No one from Bridgestone is pumping these up, saying these pocketballz will fly 19 ballzier yards farther than your current 7 iron.  They are simply designed for the very low swing-speed golfer.

The golfers that would purchase hybrid irons aren't looking to stroke their ego anyway.  They simply want to get around the golf course.
...

Spot on. These are superchunk SGI maxes, not a 'normal' iron. Save the pitchforks for Titliest is you must.

Interesting quote here. Bridgestone Marketing Manager responding to a question about the number on the bottom of the clubs:

"That's the way they're being sold in Japan," says Kinchen. "So that's what we have to do here."

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#24 kiwihacker

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 08:58 AM

View PostNessism, on 25 April 2018 - 08:47 AM, said:

View Postago33, on 25 April 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

Why do jacked lofts matter?

Because they are deceptive and some of us, apparently not you, think that's dishonest.  Not to mention, people that buy such clubs have to totally relearn their distances and that process is not adding any value, other than maybe stroking the ego of people that don't know better.

It's the gapping that gets me. 2 degree gaps from the 5 to 7 iron, 3 degree gap to the 8 iron, 4 degree gap to the 9 iron, 5 degree gap to the 38° PW1 then 6° gaps to the PW2 and Gap wedge. That PW1 is 1 degree stronger than my 8 iron!!! Great! I can brag to my buddies about how I can hit my pitching wedge (1) 135m.
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#25 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:03 AM

View Postmorgan1819, on 25 April 2018 - 08:34 AM, said:

Take a deep breath here.

Here is the other difference:  No one from Bridgestone is pumping these up, saying these pocketballz will fly 19 ballzier yards farther than your current 7 iron.  They are simply designed for the very low swing-speed golfer.

the b-stone website calls them "a revolution in distance" and that they will fly farther than any other iron with a "shot shape that golfers prefer".

There is no mention of low swing speed golfers.

Edited by pinestreetgolf, 25 April 2018 - 09:05 AM.

Two Drivers: 910D2 9.5* +.5", Nike Lucky 13* -2" Pro Launch Red x
Wood: Adams Tight Lies 2 16* Aldila DVS 60x

Driving Iron: Apex CF16 3 Iron 21* s300
Irons: Bridgestone j40 DPC 4-PW s300

Wedges: Vokey SM6 50.08 F Grind & 55.09 M Grind s300
Putter: Nike Method B1|07

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#26 Nessism

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:06 AM

View Postrawdog, on 25 April 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

View PostNessism, on 25 April 2018 - 08:47 AM, said:

View Postago33, on 25 April 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

Why do jacked lofts matter?

Because they are deceptive and some of us, apparently not you, think that's dishonest.  Not to mention, people that buy such clubs have to totally relearn their distances and that process is not adding any value, other than maybe stroking the ego of people that don't know better.

I don't mean to pick on you but I still do wonder why (for some) ignorance on the part of the consumer is viewed as dishonesty by the producer.

"ignorance" is not the term I would use because it's typically associated with a belief that the person should know better.  Simple fact is that most people have no clue about what lofts their clubs have and that in of itself shouldn't cast the people in a negative light.  Tech savvy people know about this stuff, but most others don't.

Edited by Nessism, 25 April 2018 - 09:07 AM.

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#27 bigdan88

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:12 AM

View PostNessism, on 25 April 2018 - 08:47 AM, said:

View Postago33, on 25 April 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

Why do jacked lofts matter?

Because they are deceptive and some of us, apparently not you, think that's dishonest.  Not to mention, people that buy such clubs have to totally relearn their distances and that process is not adding any value, other than maybe stroking the ego of people that don't know better.

I see it as a high handicapper having to hit a 8 iron length club instead of a 6 iron length. While the ball might now stop, he is probably likelier to get it onto the green and lower his scores. These irons are not meant for you.

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#28 rawdog

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:13 AM

View PostNessism, on 25 April 2018 - 09:06 AM, said:

View Postrawdog, on 25 April 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

View PostNessism, on 25 April 2018 - 08:47 AM, said:

View Postago33, on 25 April 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

Why do jacked lofts matter?

Because they are deceptive and some of us, apparently not you, think that's dishonest.  Not to mention, people that buy such clubs have to totally relearn their distances and that process is not adding any value, other than maybe stroking the ego of people that don't know better.

I don't mean to pick on you but I still do wonder why (for some) ignorance on the part of the consumer is viewed as dishonesty by the producer.

"ignorance" is not the term I would use because it's typically associated with a belief that the person should know better.  Simple fact is that most people have no clue about what lofts their clubs have and that in of itself shouldn't cast the people in a negative light.  Tech savvy people know about this stuff, but most others don't.

See, I don't think ignorance is a word with a negative connotation. The people just don't know better, for whatever reason.

I'm not trying to insult people, but at a certain point, I do wonder how the ignorance persists. Golfers know clubs come in different lengths and lofts. Do you really have to be that "tech savvy" to fathom that one 7 iron might have a different loft and/or length than another?
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#29 kiwihacker

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:14 AM

View Postmorgan1819, on 25 April 2018 - 08:34 AM, said:

Take a deep breath here.

You all realize these are HYBRID irons, right?  The sole is about 2" wide, and they have very light stock shafts.

The ball would go to the moon with standard lofts.

Here is the other difference:  No one from Bridgestone is pumping these up, saying these pocketballz will fly 19 ballzier yards farther than your current 7 iron.  They are simply designed for the very low swing-speed golfer.

The golfers that would purchase hybrid irons aren't looking to stroke their ego anyway.  They simply want to get around the golf course.
...

Ok so I checked out the lofts on their CB forged iron. Their 5 - 9 iron is exactly the same as my 4 - 8 iron. 24° - 39°. All well and good. Jacked lofts don't matter right. But this is what I don't like. They know the Gap wedge has to be 50° so they jump 11° in two clubs to a 44° PW and 50° gap wedge. In my set I go 43° 9iron, 47° PW and 50-52° gap wedge. It's basically the same as me just dropping the pitching wedge from my current set to accommdate the jacked lofts. That would leave about a 30m gap from my 9 iron to my gap wedge which would suck. Last time I checked these are still the scoring clubs right?
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#30 morgan1819

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:14 AM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 25 April 2018 - 09:03 AM, said:

View Postmorgan1819, on 25 April 2018 - 08:34 AM, said:

Take a deep breath here.

Here is the other difference:  No one from Bridgestone is pumping these up, saying these pocketballz will fly 19 ballzier yards farther than your current 7 iron.  They are simply designed for the very low swing-speed golfer.

the b-stone website calls them "a revolution in distance" and that they will fly farther than any other iron with a "shot shape that golfers prefer".

There is no mention of low swing speed golfers.

They come stock with a high launch 84 gram steel Nippon Zelos 8 shaft.   "The ZELOS8 is easy to handle with an extremely smooth swing and gentle touch"

...or UST Recoil 670 F3.  75 grams, high launch.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I feel these are aimed towards slower swing-speeds.


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