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Forget Yardage books! Allow laser rangefinders...


125 replies to this topic

#31 cardoustie

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    haha, we don't play for 5's

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 08:49 AM

it would dramatically speed things up for out of position tee balls ... you can't argue that

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#32 MidwestGolfBum

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 08:51 AM

View Postcardoustie, on 23 April 2018 - 08:49 AM, said:

it would dramatically speed things up for out of position tee balls ... you can't argue that

I can agree that it would help in those situations, but given that's not the case for the majority of the shots hit, the use is limited. I personally don't really care if they have a laser they can use in the bag, for the record.
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#33 Bye

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 09:38 AM

View Postdlygrisse, on 23 April 2018 - 12:23 AM, said:

Knowing exact yardage to the hole is not what they are always looking for. Yardage to reach a tier, carry a bunker. Often the are landing it short going down wind and  etc. a laser on tour would help about 25% of the time. They are walking the couurse and the caddies is stepping yardage any way.

They use them in practice rounds to verify things, but it really wouldn't speed up play, except in. A few circumstances when a GPS actauumkght be more useful   Think Spieth when he won the open

I would go one further and say that a GPS would replace quite a bit of the yardage finding exercise that they go through. From the tee and on approach shots. The caddy is not going anywhere, as they are more part of the team now than ever. Personally I don't think lasers come in to the conversation for the tour players. They are great for club golfer as it save wondering around looking for a sprinkler cover etc.

As some others have said, if they want to speed up play then they need to start dishing out penalty strokes. It would only take 1 or 2 players receiving one. And it might make some of them play better as they would have to get on with it.
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#34 2putttom

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 10:07 AM

View PostFerguson, on 23 April 2018 - 08:35 AM, said:

Why would a slower round by a tour player bother someone who is not a tour player?
Is it a vicarious thing?
for some every thing has gotta be faster. 8 G phones.. 100 Mbps internet ... golf has gotta get with the times with  10 G Player speed.
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#35 SwooshLT

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 03:10 PM

View PostFerguson, on 23 April 2018 - 08:35 AM, said:

Why would a slower round by a tour player bother someone who is not a tour player?
Is it a vicarious thing?

Are you trolling or seriously don't understand the issue?


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#36 Socrates

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 04:17 PM

View PostMidwestGolfBum, on 23 April 2018 - 08:47 AM, said:

View PostSwooshLT, on 23 April 2018 - 07:16 AM, said:

I get the yardage to ridges and fronts guys.....it's the pacing to sprinkler heads and other markers that are just time consumers.... so if you shoot the pin, shouldn't it be fairly easy to figure ridge,front and carry distances? And be ready to hit , don't start your process when it's your turn #justTOOlong

The thing is that all of the carry distances are measured from the middle of the green from the sprinkler yardages because that's the constant. Given that pins move every day, you can't just make calculations based on where they happen to be for that day. The pin sheets are also displayed from the center, so even if they are shooting pins, there is still going to be a bunch of math in some way to get numbers for everything else.

Now, to your other point, ABSOLUTELY! The fact that so many of the guys don't start figuring things out until others have hit needs to stop. There's no reason you can't be at least starting the process of getting numbers ready while your playing partner(s) is/are doing the same.
You really need to see a Tour Player's yardage book.  They could care less what the sprinkler head says other than it helps them identify which sprinkler it is.  In the yardage book, typically yardages are to the front edge from that particular sprinkler.  Pin sheets are measured from the front and from a side of the green.  There are tons of notes taken from practice rounds and measurements by caddie and the player that also come into play.

We rarely see most or any of the caddies or the players pacing off or their calculations and contrary to what many think, most of this is done while they are waiting for the green to clear.  We occasionally see some of it if there isn't much going on - TV wise, but most of the time it is all done except for some final calculations depending on the difficulty of the shot.  Players and their caddies are usually very quick to the ball and most of the time we, as tv views, don't really get a sense of that.  Where things grind to a halt is when they get to the green.  Then you can take a nap.

Are some players too anal about making decisions, absolutely.  But most aren't and they get on to their business.  People way over react to what they do to hit a shot from the fairway or tee.  Where time is lost, is on the greens and I think that I would have problems on the greens too because 90% of the Tour greens are one step away from having windmills and clown's noses.
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#37 Socrates

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    How can it be so *&#% hard to make a shoulder turn?

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 04:20 PM

View PostSwooshLT, on 23 April 2018 - 03:10 PM, said:

View PostFerguson, on 23 April 2018 - 08:35 AM, said:

Why would a slower round by a tour player bother someone who is not a tour player?
Is it a vicarious thing?

Are you trolling or seriously don't understand the issue?
I'm sure he is serious.  My life is not changed nor am I bothered by how long a tour player takes.  It might be annoying, but with most things that are annoying, you can choose to move onto something else.  Just like a Formula 1 race or driver doesn't change the way a drive a car.  We do seem to live life vicariously these days.  Some more than others.
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#38 golfheaven69

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 05:28 PM

JB says no way.

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#39 SwooshLT

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 05:50 PM

View PostSocrates, on 23 April 2018 - 04:20 PM, said:

View PostSwooshLT, on 23 April 2018 - 03:10 PM, said:

View PostFerguson, on 23 April 2018 - 08:35 AM, said:

Why would a slower round by a tour player bother someone who is not a tour player?
Is it a vicarious thing?

Are you trolling or seriously don't understand the issue?
I'm sure he is serious.  My life is not changed nor am I bothered by how long a tour player takes.  It might be annoying, but with most things that are annoying, you can choose to move onto something else.  Just like a Formula 1 race or driver doesn't change the way a drive a car.  We do seem to live life vicariously these days.  Some more than others.


Ok guys.....not living through anyone....the point is ,as entertainment watching golf intrigues me and few other people on this globe. Adding in the fact that I play this wonderful game, why can't they be held accountable for for setting a horrible example on how to play. We as ams emulate to some extent pros.... as said earlier maybe administer MORE stern penalties shots and then we can get past this very slow and methodical pace .....which isn't necessary imho.

You and Ferg can disagree  ...even ask a fairly useless question but if you don't see a problem then I feel for your playing partners.

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#40 SwooshLT

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 05:51 PM

View PostSocrates, on 23 April 2018 - 04:17 PM, said:

View PostMidwestGolfBum, on 23 April 2018 - 08:47 AM, said:

View PostSwooshLT, on 23 April 2018 - 07:16 AM, said:

I get the yardage to ridges and fronts guys.....it's the pacing to sprinkler heads and other markers that are just time consumers.... so if you shoot the pin, shouldn't it be fairly easy to figure ridge,front and carry distances? And be ready to hit , don't start your process when it's your turn #justTOOlong

The thing is that all of the carry distances are measured from the middle of the green from the sprinkler yardages because that's the constant. Given that pins move every day, you can't just make calculations based on where they happen to be for that day. The pin sheets are also displayed from the center, so even if they are shooting pins, there is still going to be a bunch of math in some way to get numbers for everything else.

Now, to your other point, ABSOLUTELY! The fact that so many of the guys don't start figuring things out until others have hit needs to stop. There's no reason you can't be at least starting the process of getting numbers ready while your playing partner(s) is/are doing the same.
You really need to see a Tour Player's yardage book.  They could care less what the sprinkler head says other than it helps them identify which sprinkler it is.  In the yardage book, typically yardages are to the front edge from that particular sprinkler.  Pin sheets are measured from the front and from a side of the green.  There are tons of notes taken from practice rounds and measurements by caddie and the player that also come into play.

We rarely see most or any of the caddies or the players pacing off or their calculations and contrary to what many think, most of this is done while they are waiting for the green to clear.  We occasionally see some of it if there isn't much going on - TV wise, but most of the time it is all done except for some final calculations depending on the difficulty of the shot.  Players and their caddies are usually very quick to the ball and most of the time we, as tv views, don't really get a sense of that.  Where things grind to a halt is when they get to the green.  Then you can take a nap.

Are some players too anal about making decisions, absolutely.  But most aren't and they get on to their business.  People way over react to what they do to hit a shot from the fairway or tee.  Where time is lost, is on the greens and I think that I would have problems on the greens too because 90% of the Tour greens are one step away from having windmills and clown's noses.


I've caddied, used yardage books and get the process thanks.


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#41 puttingmatt

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 06:13 PM

The time has come, for using laser range finders. Tech is your friend,
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#42 Aaronwilson_95

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 07:15 PM

View PostAaronwilson_95, on 23 April 2018 - 06:26 AM, said:

View PostMountainGoat, on 23 April 2018 - 06:19 AM, said:

They already allow rangefinders in NCAA tournaments, don't they?
Some , theyíre a 3 tournaments in my conference that donít allow lasers . In my opinion play in those events isnít any slower than when we have lasers for the aforementioned reasons above
Going to bump myself to show my point again

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#43 BiggErn

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 07:20 PM

They’re still gonna use their books and the laser will be used to just confirm what they find using their books.

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#44 BNGL

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 07:41 PM

IMG_1524530438.174369.jpg

This is from of the better college coaches in the country.

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#45 BiggErn

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 07:47 PM

View PostBNGL, on 23 April 2018 - 07:41 PM, said:

Attachment IMG_1524530438.174369.jpg

This is from of the better college coaches in the country.

So play with a range finder is over 4.5 hours? If someone hits in another fairway I wouldn’t call use of a rangefinders reward for the golfer but for everyone playing. I can only imagine the amount of time it would take for that player to get a yardage and take their shot without a rangefinder.


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#46 Socrates

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    How can it be so *&#% hard to make a shoulder turn?

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 08:46 PM

View PostSwooshLT, on 23 April 2018 - 05:50 PM, said:

View PostSocrates, on 23 April 2018 - 04:20 PM, said:

View PostSwooshLT, on 23 April 2018 - 03:10 PM, said:

View PostFerguson, on 23 April 2018 - 08:35 AM, said:

Why would a slower round by a tour player bother someone who is not a tour player?
Is it a vicarious thing?

Are you trolling or seriously don't understand the issue?
I'm sure he is serious.  My life is not changed nor am I bothered by how long a tour player takes.  It might be annoying, but with most things that are annoying, you can choose to move onto something else.  Just like a Formula 1 race or driver doesn't change the way a drive a car.  We do seem to live life vicariously these days.  Some more than others.

Ok guys.....not living through anyone....the point is ,as entertainment watching golf intrigues me and few other people on this globe. Adding in the fact that I play this wonderful game, why can't they be held accountable for for setting a horrible example on how to play. We as ams emulate to some extent pros.... as said earlier maybe administer MORE stern penalties shots and then we can get past this very slow and methodical pace .....which isn't necessary imho.

You and Ferg can disagree  ...even ask a fairly useless question but if you don't see a problem then I feel for your playing partners.
Never said that the time it takes to play on the tours isn’t a problem. It is and until there is anyone with a pair to enforce it, it’s not going to change.  It just doesn’t bother me since it doesn’t affect how I or the people I play with, play.
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#47 BNGL

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 08:56 PM

View PostBiggErn, on 23 April 2018 - 07:47 PM, said:

View PostBNGL, on 23 April 2018 - 07:41 PM, said:

Attachment IMG_1524530438.174369.jpg

This is from of the better college coaches in the country.

So play with a range finder is over 4.5 hours? If someone hits in another fairway I wouldn’t call use of a rangefinders reward for the golfer but for everyone playing. I can only imagine the amount of time it would take for that player to get a yardage and take their shot without a rangefinder.

I never timed it, but some days it was glacial. BUT it's the pace of play, I can't change it, i just had to do the best I could. I had (along with other top players) developed a solid mental game plan with a sports psychologist, to stay fresh and focused only when it was my turn to play.





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#48 80sFredriksson

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 11:46 PM

It matters because as a TV viewer I want the tournament to complete on time and they will loose viewers when guys like JB takes 4 mins to decide he is going to lay up in the rough, less viewers = less golf on TV which sux

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#49 Gem

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 12:28 AM

Shot clock like tennis and stroke penalties plus they lose a club every time for the rest of the tournament.
Would make for some fun viewing :)
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#50 Roadking2003

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 06:58 AM

View Posttiderider, on 22 April 2018 - 07:47 PM, said:

slow play on the pga tour isn't an issue ... and does not cause slow play by amateurs on the weekend or during any other time of the week ...

I agree.  If the PGA Tour thinks they have a slow play problem, let them address it.  As a viewer I don't think it's a problem.


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#51 Roadking2003

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 07:00 AM

View Postimakaveli, on 23 April 2018 - 08:25 AM, said:

I would give more penalty shots, even to top/popular players. This is becoming out of control. PGA Tour needs to step up...

Why?

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#52 Roadking2003

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 07:02 AM

View PostSwooshLT, on 23 April 2018 - 03:10 PM, said:

View PostFerguson, on 23 April 2018 - 08:35 AM, said:

Why would a slower round by a tour player bother someone who is not a tour player?
Is it a vicarious thing?

Are you trolling or seriously don't understand the issue?

Yes.

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#53 Roadking2003

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 07:07 AM

View Post80sFredriksson, on 23 April 2018 - 11:46 PM, said:

It matters because as a TV viewer I want the tournament to complete on time and they will loose viewers when guys like JB takes 4 mins to decide he is going to lay up in the rough, less viewers = less golf on TV which sux

The JB event was an extremely rare occurrence.

I TiVo almost every tournament so their slow play is not an issue with me.

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#54 dlygrisse

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 07:10 AM

View Postimakaveli, on 23 April 2018 - 08:25 AM, said:

I would give more penalty shots, even to top/popular players. This is becoming out of control. PGA Tour needs to step up...

Out of control?  Exaggerate much?i think what you are seeing is the TV networks showing more player/caddie conversation. They think it makes it more interesting and entertaining. Technology has helped make it possible. Also in Tigers day they couldn’t do it because he was 50 % of the coverage and 50% of what he said wasn’t family friendly.
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#55 imakaveli

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 07:19 AM

View Postdlygrisse, on 24 April 2018 - 07:10 AM, said:

View Postimakaveli, on 23 April 2018 - 08:25 AM, said:

I would give more penalty shots, even to top/popular players. This is becoming out of control. PGA Tour needs to step up...

Out of control?  Exaggerate much?i think what you are seeing is the TV networks showing more player/caddie conversation. They think it makes it more interesting and entertaining. Technology has helped make it possible. Also in Tigers day they couldn’t do it because he was 50 % of the coverage and 50% of what he said wasn’t family friendly.

Why exaggerating? It is indeed out of control since they indeed have no control (or they don't want to have it).


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#56 blaird

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 07:41 AM

I am in favor of this even though I dont think it speeds up play. Usually, by the time a player gets to their ball, the caddie already has the distance stepped off. I have played in tournaments with detailed yardage books that allow rangefinders and I will shoot the distance then look at the slopes in the green, distances to carry a ridge or bunker, and how much room I have in front and long of pin. It doesnt take long to do some quick math and get a number you know you have to hit and a number you dont want to be long of.

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#57 Aaronwilson_95

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 08:16 AM

View PostBNGL, on 23 April 2018 - 08:56 PM, said:

View PostBiggErn, on 23 April 2018 - 07:47 PM, said:

View PostBNGL, on 23 April 2018 - 07:41 PM, said:

Attachment IMG_1524530438.174369.jpg

This is from of the better college coaches in the country.

So play with a range finder is over 4.5 hours? If someone hits in another fairway I wouldnít call use of a rangefinders reward for the golfer but for everyone playing. I can only imagine the amount of time it would take for that player to get a yardage and take their shot without a rangefinder.

I never timed it, but some days it was glacial. BUT it's the pace of play, I can't change it, i just had to do the best I could. I had (along with other top players) developed a solid mental game plan with a sports psychologist, to stay fresh and focused only when it was my turn to play.
Thatís actually one of our conference events I was speaking about ^

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#58 johnseg

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 01:20 PM

Rangefinders haven't helped pace of play on the local courses so it likely won't change the way the pros play either. If you could outlaw the wind it would greatly speed up play. The tour guys agonize over wind. Other than wind the time is spent on the greens.

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#59 Anchor44

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 02:20 PM

View PostSwooshLT, on 22 April 2018 - 04:55 PM, said:

In order to speed up play.....this walk around, sprinkler head finding mission is brutally outdated.

#simplicity
Rangefinders take waaay too long .  Allow GPS watches like I have. A glance shows all needed distances and I don't have to dig it out of my bag, take it out of its bag , put it back , focus it etc.

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#60 highergr0und

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 02:34 PM

How would this speed up play?  With a laser, they would have to wait until the group in front exits the green then shoot the flag.  With a yardage book, the caddy will have the distance ready while the players are putting out.


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