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Getting really frustrated by the length of rounds.


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#211 wolfsjetta12

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 09:14 AM

In my opinion, a lot of the issues with pace of play fall on management. I am not the best golfers not even close, but I can keep up. I know the major issue at my course is that you can schedule a tee time but when you show up and pay they let you go out and play! Regardless of what your scheduled tee time was. So when a four some is just allowed to go out and tee it up 15-30 before their scheduled tee time there goes everyones day! 5 hours easy.


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#212 Yanki01

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 09:31 AM

5.5hr round for 3-man scramble this friday.

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#213 Mikey5e

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 09:43 AM

Too many golfers wasting time needlessly. It could/should be better.

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#214 radiman

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 11:16 AM

View PostYanki01, on 14 May 2018 - 09:31 AM, said:

5.5hr round for 3-man scramble this friday.



Two groups per hole?  I have been stuck in some long rounds, but it has been rare to get stuck out there for that long.  It's like being stuck in stand still traffic.  You fully expect to see a horrific car accident at the end of it.  But, after an hour and 10 miles traveled, it opens up like there's nothing wrong.
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#215 Twism86

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 02:54 PM

Played a round on Thursday last week and the order was a 4-some, my 3-some and then a 4-some behind us. The group in front of us was not very good but we also had one less person so we kept pace easy. The group behind us was very skilled and up our a$$ the whole time. We were not playing particularly fast as we were not the hold up but I feel the group behind us was getting a bit annoyed.

How do you handle people being annoyed at you when you are not the problem? The group behind eventually skipped from hole 10 over to 13 when they saw an opening. We were in no rush but once the group behind cut around, there was no one else behind so we actually got to relax and BS rather than play fast paced golf which is always nice.

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#216 jpdx

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 03:14 PM

View PostTwism86, on 14 May 2018 - 02:54 PM, said:

Played a round on Thursday last week and the order was a 4-some, my 3-some and then a 4-some behind us. The group in front of us was not very good but we also had one less person so we kept pace easy. The group behind us was very skilled and up our a$$ the whole time. We were not playing particularly fast as we were not the hold up but I feel the group behind us was getting a bit annoyed.

How do you handle people being annoyed at you when you are not the problem? The group behind eventually skipped from hole 10 over to 13 when they saw an opening. We were in no rush but once the group behind cut around, there was no one else behind so we actually got to relax and BS rather than play fast paced golf which is always nice.

questions is: were you holding THEM up? (assuming the 4some ahead was not holding you up and nobody else in front of them) if so - invite them to play through would be my suggestion.
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#217 justincredible04

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 04:17 PM

View PostTwism86, on 14 May 2018 - 02:54 PM, said:

Played a round on Thursday last week and the order was a 4-some, my 3-some and then a 4-some behind us. The group in front of us was not very good but we also had one less person so we kept pace easy. The group behind us was very skilled and up our a$$ the whole time. We were not playing particularly fast as we were not the hold up but I feel the group behind us was getting a bit annoyed.

How do you handle people being annoyed at you when you are not the problem? The group behind eventually skipped from hole 10 over to 13 when they saw an opening. We were in no rush but once the group behind cut around, there was no one else behind so we actually got to relax and BS rather than play fast paced golf which is always nice.

You weren’t the problem. Don’t worry about appeasing the group behind you. I play semi-quick. If I’m on a group consistently, I don’t necessarily look at the group in front of me but what’s in front of them. If they were seasoned golfers then they knew you weren’t the problem.

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#218 Bloom

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 07:11 PM

My pet peeve is slow drivers in the left lane.  No road rage, but I sure don't enjoy the drive if they're not following common courtesy:
1.  If someone pulls up behind you, and there's space in front of you, pull over to the right lane to let them through.
  -it doesn't matter if you were their first and paid for the trip just like them.
  -it doesn't matter that you're going the recommended speed limit and you think the speedy guys have no rights
  -it doesn't matter that you think the drive should be enjoyed and hurrying it ruins it for others.
  -if you don't like it, stay off the crowded freeways at rush hour.  There's other roads with a much slower pace you could choose.  Or drive at a different time.

2.  If someone pulls up behind you, and there's no space in front (bumper to bumper), guy behind has to relax, where you going to go?
  -if space opens up and you don't want to keep up to the car in front, see #1 above.

I treat golf the same (minus the whole bit about super fast drivers being a danger to others on the road) :)

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#219 thug the bunny

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 09:24 PM

View PostBlackDiamondPar5, on 14 May 2018 - 06:14 AM, said:

View PostBig Ben, on 13 May 2018 - 09:30 PM, said:

View PostHilltopper413, on 13 May 2018 - 08:43 PM, said:

View Postjustincredible04, on 13 May 2018 - 02:05 AM, said:

Serious question: is a 4.5 hour round with a foursome walking considered slow? I just played this morning and nobody waited on us and we didn't have to wait either (course was a little empty) and played 18 holes in about four hours and twenty minutes. I thought we were playing at a reasonable pace

It's perfectly acceptable at 95% of the golf courses in the country.  Some would have you believe otherwise.  They also pick up 5 footers, hit without aiming, sprint to the next tee, and could care less what they shoot.  I don't really get the fun in playing golf just to see how fast you can play, but to each their own.
I don't buy that for a second!
I don't either. Very few courses have a 4.5 hour pace on their card. Most I've seen fall between 4-420.


That's a huge difference.
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#220 Always_rough

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 10:04 PM

Honestly think pace of play might push me outta the game. Monday round that took me 5 1/2 hours. If we were all out there playing for millions, I'd understand, but the guys in front of me looked like they had never even been to a driving range.

After a grueling 3 hour front nine I called up the pro shop, but nothing was done to try and speed up the round. If I can finish in around 4 1/2 hours, I'm ecstatic. I get that being on a golf course is better than being in the office, but sitting and waiting with a thumb up my you know what isn't fun regardless of where I am.

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#221 third-times-a-charm

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 09:16 AM

View PostTwism86, on 14 May 2018 - 02:54 PM, said:

Played a round on Thursday last week and the order was a 4-some, my 3-some and then a 4-some behind us. The group in front of us was not very good but we also had one less person so we kept pace easy. The group behind us was very skilled and up our a$$ the whole time. We were not playing particularly fast as we were not the hold up but I feel the group behind us was getting a bit annoyed.

How do you handle people being annoyed at you when you are not the problem? The group behind eventually skipped from hole 10 over to 13 when they saw an opening. We were in no rush but once the group behind cut around, there was no one else behind so we actually got to relax and BS rather than play fast paced golf which is always nice.

Thats the worst.

Even WORSE is when you have a slow group in front of you and a fast or moderately fast one behind you, but the slow group always clears the green before the group behind you gets to the shot behind you and it makes it look like you are the slow one. Awkward.
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#222 TollBros

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 09:38 AM

View Postom18v, on 12 May 2018 - 06:01 AM, said:

View PostMidMOGolfer, on 11 May 2018 - 10:29 PM, said:

View Postom18v, on 11 May 2018 - 09:56 PM, said:

View PostMidMOGolfer, on 11 May 2018 - 08:32 PM, said:

For those of you that want to play slower rounds have at it, but the rules clearly state, allow faster players to play through.  I've seen way too many people comment that they think a certain time is perfectly acceptable and that is incorrect.  If someone is behind you and it is open ahead of you, let them play through, period, end of discussion.

I'm not arguing and generally will let a group of any size play through if appropriate.  But, where does the rules "clearly state" allow faster players through?  I don't disagree.  I just cannot locate it published anywhere.

http://www.usga.org/...html#!etiquette


"It is a group's responsibility to keep up with the group in front. If it loses a clear hole and it is delaying the group behind, it should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group. Where a group has not lost a clear hole, but it is apparent that the group behind can play faster, it should invite the faster moving group to play through."

"it should invite the faster moving group to play through"

It says should not must.  That is not a rule.  That is a suggestion.

You are seriously defending blocking a faster group behind you for no reason? I'm at a loss.
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#223 highergr0und

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 11:57 AM

I love this topic....  Let's talk about some of the solutions and common themes as to why theyre bad I've seen here over the years

Put rangers on the course - But it's never "MY" fault that it's slow.  And "I paid good money to be here"

Space groups out more - What do you mean it'll be more expensive to play?

Eliminate alcohol from the course - well I'm not allowed to go to the bar afterwards so I need to drink during

Eliminate phones - I'm far too important to go a few hours off the grid

Super game improvement clubs - you're ruining the game, real men play blades

Tee it forward - I'm far too good to play up a box.  I'll hit nothing but drivers and wedges and shoot 20 under.  I'd rather shoot 95 from the black for the purity of the game

Make the hole bigger - that'll turn it into clown golf

Have more rate tiers to spread out the business - Well why should I pay more to play at 8am on a weekend than 1pm?

Have to be a low cap to play the blacks - But I'm a 20 cap who's a great ballstriker who carries it 350, just can't putt

Play ready golf - but we're playing for money and I need to see what the other guy does

Putt out - but I need to mark, clean and position my ball for that 1 foot putt

Pick up gimmes - how dare you assault the integrity of the game and the handicap system!!

Allow rangefinders with slope - Blasphemy!!  Half of the game is figuring out distances despite the fact the pros always know EXACTLY


Man, I'm sure I could go on.  Bottom line is there are a lot of solutions but it's like dieting.  Nobody wants to put in the work or have to deal with an uncomfortable change to get to the goal.  They want a magic bullet that doesn't affect them in any way

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#224 Twism86

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 12:27 PM

What about rangers forcing a slow group to skip a hole and move forward?
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#225 JDFish

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 02:54 PM

I side with those who put much of the blame on management.  It's like rearing children - management should set the rules and expectations and follow through.  Establish a reasonable amount of time between tee times, depending on the course, and hold groups to the tee time (if you're early, you wait; if you're late, sorry, you forfeit).  The pro shop should remind everyone when playing about pace of play and explain the ramifications of not keeping pace (warning, asked to pick up and move to the next hole, leave the course, etc.)(as well as give divot tools and remind them to fix their ball marks), hand out/put on all carts "recommendations" with ideas to speed play (double par pick up, dropping passenger at his/her ball and going to hit own ball, playing ready golf, putt when ready, etc.).  The starter should welcome groups to the first tee and remind them about pace of play.  And marshalls should marshall, not spend their time joking it up with groups, looking for balls, napping in the shade, etc.  If all courses were consistent in doing so, the public would get it and compliance would likely (mostly) follow.  Maybe those courses that don't or can't do these things will ultimately end up with all of the 4.5+ hour players.

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#226 hybrid25

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 02:56 PM

I just got off the course after playing 18 holes, and in a twosome in front of us one was a beginner and the other was not much better. Just the same, they kept up pace and although we had to wait a little bit on some holes I would never attribute it to them because they always kept moving right behind the foursome in front of them. You don't have to be good to play ready golf, you just have to have a sense of respect for the game of golf and other people.

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#227 highergr0und

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 02:59 PM

I've got the answer!!!  Self driving golf carts!!!  As the pace falls behind they just move on without their players.  First to the next tee.  If they fall off pace, the carts skip a hole.  If they try to drive the carts back onto a hole they shouldn't be on, the carts go back to the pro shop area.

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#228 chris975d

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 03:17 PM

Speaking as a GM, one of the biggest issues in enforcing slow play (I'm at a daily fee facility, so it can be different at a private facility) isn't usually in the actual course management, but how much course owners/ownership fears any "bad press" at all from complaining customers.  When it comes to slow play (among other things with customer service..also posted along these lines in a thread regarding proshops pairing up 2somes/singles), I'd love nothing more than to ask groups to skip holes to catch up, etc, and have many times in the past. But it really does nothing to solve it if I'm the only course in the area that does.  As soon as I start to REALLY crack down, those customers will just leave and go to one of the many other courses in the area that will let them play as slow as they want, as well as complain to ownership.  Typically when course owners receive complaints, and see customers leaving to go elsewhere, they will overreact and ask us (not just me, but course management in general) to reverse course on anything we've done that customers seem to not like (i.e, the complainers).  And in a hyper competitive golf market like metro Atlanta (that I'm in), course owners will do anything they can to get/retain customers and not have them complain.  Such as not allow many of us at the GM/head pro level to create or enforce any policy that runs anyone off.  One of the main reasons it's so hard to actually enforce slow players to either pick up the pace, skip holes to catch up, or as I've even attempted in the past, to give them a rain check and have them come back on a less busy day.  Usually as soon as those customers complain to ownership or write negative reviews online (this is a thing most owners are VERY sensitive to), we at the operations level are asked to back off/be more "accommodating".

So as long as there are courses/owners that do nothing about this for fear of "alienating" customers and coming off as not accommodating the average/beginning golfer (which is often how these people that you ask to leave/give a raincheck to/ask to skip holes to catch up sell it to course ownership when they complain), it's going to be a hard problem to get a grip on.  At least at the daily fee level.  No course owner wants to be the "lone ranger" in a highly competitive golf market that is "running off" play.

And I'm not saying that my current course ownership caves like this to complaints, as they are actually one of the first to give me more autonomy in setting and sticking to policies.  But I've dealt with, and worked for several course owners over the years, and have plenty of friends in the industry nearby, so I do know this is more of the norm than not.  No course owner wants to get a reputation that his/her course is running people away/making it hard on them to enjoy their round.  And...honestly...in the daily fee world there are FAR more slower players than fast ones, so there are naturally far less people complaining about slow play than GolfWRXers would think.  That's another reason ownership is often reluctant to act on "slow play" complaints...there just aren't that many of them.  But...when you do speed a group up/ask them to skip holes/tell them to come back on a less busy day...they will light you up on social media/review sites...and that will get an owner's attention in a hurry.

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#229 MidMOGolfer

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 09:14 PM

View PostTollBros, on 16 May 2018 - 09:38 AM, said:

View Postom18v, on 12 May 2018 - 06:01 AM, said:

View PostMidMOGolfer, on 11 May 2018 - 10:29 PM, said:

View Postom18v, on 11 May 2018 - 09:56 PM, said:

View PostMidMOGolfer, on 11 May 2018 - 08:32 PM, said:

For those of you that want to play slower rounds have at it, but the rules clearly state, allow faster players to play through.  I've seen way too many people comment that they think a certain time is perfectly acceptable and that is incorrect.  If someone is behind you and it is open ahead of you, let them play through, period, end of discussion.

I'm not arguing and generally will let a group of any size play through if appropriate.  But, where does the rules "clearly state" allow faster players through?  I don't disagree.  I just cannot locate it published anywhere.

http://www.usga.org/...html#!etiquette


"It is a group's responsibility to keep up with the group in front. If it loses a clear hole and it is delaying the group behind, it should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group. Where a group has not lost a clear hole, but it is apparent that the group behind can play faster, it should invite the faster moving group to play through."

"it should invite the faster moving group to play through"

It says should not must.  That is not a rule.  That is a suggestion.

You are seriously defending blocking a faster group behind you for no reason? I'm at a loss.

I think it's a power trip for some people.  They like knowing that they get to decide if and when they let a group play through.
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#230 Wooderson

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 09:16 PM

I also want my round to be 330 to 415, maybe 430 at max. If a 4 hour paced group has to let through 3 groups of twosomes that adds 20 plus minutes to their round time.

Also, for y'all that hate sitting and waiting. How do you deer hunt?

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#231 Under2hours

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 05:35 AM

We are members of a course & are the weekend rabbits.  We do nothing exciting, except hit the ball, walk & repeat.  We walk together, talk, laugh (I have the bluetooth & tunes) and we scatter when balls on the other side of the fairway & play ready golf and have a good time.  Do we grind by the green, not really (but did probably take an extra 10-15 minutes on Saturday when two of us were trying to qualify for a comp).  All completed in 2:50....  Our course is par 71 6,400 (very hilly) 124 70.7 from the member tees.

Yesterday off 6th and 3:45 and felt like an eternity waiting on every tee (and we had a # of searches).

Edited by Under2hours, 17 May 2018 - 03:47 PM.


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#232 pearsonified

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 10:23 AM

Let me start by stating something completely uncontroversial: I HATE slow play.

I play ~100 rounds a year on public-access courses; I walk every damn one; and in the absence of other humans, I can play a comfortable round in 2:45 just about anywhere on Earth. This means I'm losing a minimum of 1:15 of productivity nearly every time I step on the course. I agonize over stuff like this and truly wish something could be done to improve the situation.

That said, nothing is ever going to change for the better when it comes to slow play. The pace of play on a 7,000-yard 18-hole course is never going to improve; it is only going to get worse.

Grow the game, play the right tee, have some damn awareness of everyone else on the course...

None of this stuff matters or will affect the game positively in any material way.

Until you have stated club policies of FORCING players to skip holes if they're behind—AND you have marshals with the balls to enforce these policies—you're going to have 4.5 hour rounds as the norm.

Part of the problem occurs when sport is seen as recreation, and no sport is more "recreational" than golf.

I wish executive-style courses could accommodate the recreational-type players, while full size courses could accommodate the competitive die-hards like myself.

I see no reason I should be wasting 1:15 of my life with people who are out there for very different reasons. How is this lost time any different from a sh*tty commute? Rhetorical.

In short, get off my very nicely mown lawn. And please do so quickly.

Edited by pearsonified, 17 May 2018 - 10:27 AM.

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#233 third-times-a-charm

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 10:37 AM

The problem is there arent enough good "fast" golfers to keep the courses revenue going, to stay open, if they piss off all the slow weekend hacks. It's a nice idea to kick people off for slow play or yell at them and we would all love it, but its just not going to happen and quite frankly you shouldnt want it to happen if you want your favorite courses to stay open (public, anyway).

Un-Fing-Fortunately many courses thrive off of reunion tournaments, alcohol drinkers, bachelor parties, clueless old peoples, and all sorts of other less than desirable audience groups (to fast players).

Private is a different story, obviously.

It is just what it is and expectations need to be altered for some of you, on some of your courses.
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#234 wrmiller

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 12:05 PM

Well, if we throw out all of the entitled, me/me/me types off the course, the rest of us can enjoy a round in peace.

You want a 2.5 hour round because your time is 'important'? Bye.

You want a 5+ hour round because you 'deserve' it? Bye.

Just a thought... ;)

Edited by wrmiller, 17 May 2018 - 07:38 PM.

I'm not suggesting we kill all the stupid people, I'm just suggesting we remove all the warning labels and let the situation resolve itself.

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#235 chris975d

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:23 PM

View Postthird-times-a-charm, on 17 May 2018 - 10:37 AM, said:

The problem is there arent enough good "fast" golfers to keep the courses revenue going, to stay open, if they piss off all the slow weekend hacks. It's a nice idea to kick people off for slow play or yell at them and we would all love it, but its just not going to happen and quite frankly you shouldnt want it to happen if you want your favorite courses to stay open (public, anyway).

Un-Fing-Fortunately many courses thrive off of reunion tournaments, alcohol drinkers, bachelor parties, clueless old peoples, and all sorts of other less than desirable audience groups (to fast players).

Private is a different story, obviously.

It is just what it is and expectations need to be altered for some of you, on some of your courses.

This is exactly what I was attempting to say in my MUCH wordier post above.  Course owners just aren't going to allow that many people (all the slow players) to be kicked off the course or embarrassed by being asked to skip holes (that they feel they "paid for") and get ticked off/go elsewhere with their business/complain and post bad reviews.  There are just way too many slow players that are the lion's share of course owners revenue for those owners to REALLY allow those of us to truly speed people along to that degree.  We (course managers) can crack down for a little bit, but as soon as it starts affecting the bottom line, we are always going to be asked to lighten up.  There are just far too many average pace/slower pace players (again, talking daily fee golf here) than there are faster paced.

Again, as a course manager I do not like or condone slow play.  But we can only do what we are allowed to do, without running off too many customers.  I've been lucky with current ownership in being able to do more to combat it, like 10 minute intervals for tee times instead of 7-8 minutes like before.  It's a HARD sell to any course owner to go to them and tell them that you want to put out LESS (on paper) players per hour than before, and have them trust you enough to not think that's going to negatively affect bottom line.


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#236 Barfolomew

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:53 PM

Way too many morons on the course that arent self aware that the group behind them is always riding their a** cause they play waaaay too slow!  Yet for some reason beyond my comprehension they never change how they play... no one needs over 5 minutes on the greens.  Marshall can yell at em till the cows come home but theyre just not smart enough to get it.....I play real quick and slow golf is THE WORST part of golf for me
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#237 wrmiller

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 04:10 PM

Like I said earlier, I've been listening to these same complaints over, and over, and over again for over 30 years.

So I'm curious as to what exactly does everyone hope to accomplish here, other than just venting? You actually believe things are going to change now because it's you complaining and not the guy from 30 years ago?

What if everyone who complains about golf just goes ahead and stops playing? That might speed things up a bit. Probably not though. ;)
I'm not suggesting we kill all the stupid people, I'm just suggesting we remove all the warning labels and let the situation resolve itself.

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#238 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 04:47 PM

As long as there are slow players and internet golf forums, people will be complaining about slow play. If it's been going on for 30 years, then it will also be going on for another 30.

And since it's a golf forum, people will come on to vent or complain about it. Most everyone knows its not going to change, but they can find people here to commensurate with them.

If it gets bothersome to hear people complain about it, the easy solution is to never open a thread with anything regarding slow play in the title.
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#239 wrmiller

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 06:06 PM

Yea, pretty much what I thought. Just checking though, to see if I missed anything obvious.
I'm not suggesting we kill all the stupid people, I'm just suggesting we remove all the warning labels and let the situation resolve itself.

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#240 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 07:24 PM

View Postwrmiller, on 17 May 2018 - 06:06 PM, said:

Yea, pretty much what I thought. Just checking though, to see if I missed anything obvious.

I don't think there's probably much to miss, I think we've all beaten it to death very thoroughly!

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