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Quicker putting process


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#1 swpgolf

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 05:02 PM

Just watched Ian Poulter take a very long time to analyze a short putt from all directions, step away after setting up and then finally knock it in. This was after having gone through a similar process and missing a 9 footer.

Has occurred to me that professionals (and us weekend players) might do as well and possibly better if they just took a quick look and stepped up and hit it quickly. I know they are playing for millions of dollars, but I wonder if possibly over analyzing causes tension and missed putts.

Putt more quickly?  Your thoughts.


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#2 Sean2

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 05:10 PM

I myself don't do any of that when I putt (I can't remember the last time I did a 360 to analyze a putt). But, with so much on the line for the professionals I understand why they do it.
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#3 Socrates

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 05:31 PM

Poulter was leaking oil and trying not to blow the motor so I don’t really blame him for taking some time.  It’s their job and trying to make a living.  I liken it to being at work and writing an email that’s important.  How many times do you re-read it, make some changes and then read it again before you send it because once you hit send, it’s permanent. Putting on tour is like that.
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#4 bullie76

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 06:08 PM

My putting is more like Kim's today. Missing everything. I think most of my problems has more to do with a long flowing stroke. Putter has too much of a chance to wobble around. I'm going to give the pop stroke a try and speed up the whole process. Can't get worse.
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#5 golfandfishing

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 06:14 PM

A few months ago my wife and I were driving somewhere and we passed a cotton field. The farmer was harvesting the cotton - my wife, who has never been on a tractor, harvested anything, or probably even been in a field on a farm - made a comment along the lines of ďshouldnít he be going slower?  And cutting it all the way down at the bottom?Ē  

This post reminds me of that exchange.


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#6 PGArox

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 06:56 PM

View PostSocrates, on 15 April 2018 - 05:31 PM, said:

Poulter was leaking oil and trying not to blow the motor so I donít really blame him for taking some time.  Itís their job and trying to make a living.  I liken it to being at work and writing an email thatís important.  How many times do you re-read it, make some changes and then read it again before you send it because once you hit send, itís permanent. Putting on tour is like that.

That's beautiful, man.


:)

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#7 knock it close

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 07:39 PM

I see op is getting a tough time in here but doesn't Stockton advocate for just that, a shorter, simpler routine? Now obviously different things work for different people but I think paralysis by analysis is a real thing
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#8 NJMARTN

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 08:12 PM

Quicker process helps me reduce second guessing.  Not saying I make more putts, but my stroke is definitely better because of committing

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#9 Socrates

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 08:50 PM

For those of us who don't make a living at golf, there is no reason to not get on with the job.  Don't be careless, but make a decision and hit the ball.  If it's an important putt or shot, make sure of what you want to do.  But there is no reason to not be quick about it.
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#10 swpgolf

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 09:47 PM

My question was really about whether those who do play golf for a living might putt even better if they were quicker and relied more on feel. Some replies seem to indicate as a given that if you play golf for a living, then you should take longer and be more careful with their putting. I’m asking if that necessarily leads to better putting. Seems to me that Rory putted better at last tournament because he indicated he had gone back to feel putting.

As far as being careful about reports you are preparing at the office and being extra careful and reading and editing and re-reading to be as careful as possible, I believe you can overthink this also and what you send out may not be as good as your first thought  

What happened to your first instinct is your best instinct.


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#11 bladehunter

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 10:07 PM

I donít personally think you can rush reading a green. Especially grainy Bermuda.  You have to look at the cup to see where the grain is.  You have to get behind it. And if it isnít obvious direction you have to walk around. Or you can just hit it and miss. Those are the options.    On flat bent greens , yes. You can get a quick look behind and bang it. But you canít on every green.
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#12 myphriendmike

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 08:37 AM

I would separate the green reading from the shot routine.  Study the putt as long as you need from all sides taking in the overall landscape and the specific path.  But once you’ve made a decision, trust yourself, step up and hit it.  No last second reading as you take your stance.

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#13 Socrates

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 08:45 AM

View Postswpgolf, on 15 April 2018 - 09:47 PM, said:

My question was really about whether those who do play golf for a living might putt even better if they were quicker and relied more on feel. Some replies seem to indicate as a given that if you play golf for a living, then you should take longer and be more careful with their putting. I’m asking if that necessarily leads to better putting. Seems to me that Rory putted better at last tournament because he indicated he had gone back to feel putting.

As far as being careful about reports you are preparing at the office and being extra careful and reading and editing and re-reading to be as careful as possible, I believe you can overthink this also and what you send out may not be as good as your first thought  

What happened to your first instinct is your best instinct.
Your first instinct is usually the best, but with every courses insane desire to get putting surfaces stimping at 14, the slightest mistake gets magnified.  Add in strong gusty winds and you have to grind on putt.  Clearly evident on the back 9 at Harbor Town for almost everyone.
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#14 sefus12

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 08:56 AM

View Postknock it close, on 15 April 2018 - 07:39 PM, said:

I see op is getting a tough time in here but doesn't Stockton advocate for just that, a shorter, simpler routine? Now obviously different things work for different people but I think paralysis by analysis is a real thing

I've always been a very quick putter, from my college playing days through now.  Quick look, pick a line and go.  Taking more time to think about things simply gives me more time to confuse myself.  I love the Stockton method and wish more players would adopt it.
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#15 Ferguson

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 08:56 AM

Putting has always been the strongest part of my game.  I don't overthink.  I putt very much by feel and usually move through my process quickly.

The pros play on a totally different level.


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#16 1puttAU

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 10:05 AM

View PostSocrates, on 15 April 2018 - 05:31 PM, said:

Poulter was leaking oil and trying not to blow the motor so I don’t really blame him for taking some time.  It’s their job and trying to make a living.  I liken it to being at work and writing an email that’s important.  How many times do you re-read it, make some changes and then read it again before you send it because once you hit send, it’s permanent. Putting on tour is like that.

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#17 jslane57

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 10:19 AM

View PostSocrates, on 15 April 2018 - 05:31 PM, said:

Poulter was leaking oil and trying not to blow the motor so I don’t really blame him for taking some time.  It’s their job and trying to make a living.  I liken it to being at work and writing an email that’s important.  How many times do you re-read it, make some changes and then read it again before you send it because once you hit send, it’s permanent. Putting on tour is like that.
Best post I've read in a week! You could tell that Poulter wanted to keep a routine, he wanted to be able to just hit the putts in, but he had lost it. If he'd missed two more putts from being careless, instead of being in a tie for 7th, he'd be in a tie for 16th. I haven't looked at the payout, but the difference would probably have been like $100,000.00. Yes, for most of us regular golfers, sticking to routine is the best way to be successful, and maybe a little faster too.
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#18 The Pearl

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 02:36 PM

View PostSocrates, on 15 April 2018 - 05:31 PM, said:

Poulter was leaking oil and trying not to blow the motor so I don’t really blame him for taking some time.  It’s their job and trying to make a living.  I liken it to being at work and writing an email that’s important.  How many times do you re-read it, make some changes and then read it again before you send it because once you hit send, it’s permanent. Putting on tour is like that.

There is slight problem with this analogy.  I agree with your comparison in terms of the "finality" of putting vs. sending an email, but usually you are not under any meaningful time frame when sending an email.   When "taking your time" putting, there is some consequence to your playing partners or players waiting for you in the fairway.  The question becomes how long is reasonable to stalk the putt and pull the trigger in professional golf?

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#19 The Pearl

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 02:41 PM

View Postjslane57, on 16 April 2018 - 10:19 AM, said:

View PostSocrates, on 15 April 2018 - 05:31 PM, said:

Poulter was leaking oil and trying not to blow the motor so I don’t really blame him for taking some time.  It’s their job and trying to make a living.  I liken it to being at work and writing an email that’s important.  How many times do you re-read it, make some changes and then read it again before you send it because once you hit send, it’s permanent. Putting on tour is like that.
Best post I've read in a week! You could tell that Poulter wanted to keep a routine, he wanted to be able to just hit the putts in, but he had lost it. If he'd missed two more putts from being careless, instead of being in a tie for 7th, he'd be in a tie for 16th. I haven't looked at the payout, but the difference would probably have been like $100,000.00. Yes, for most of us regular golfers, sticking to routine is the best way to be successful, and maybe a little faster too.

This all depends if by "taking his time" was really just defaulting back to his normal routine.  Anything other than this is just a coincidence.  At some point, stalking a putt becomes an act in diminishing returns.  If it weren't than rounds would be 8 hours long.  Every decision we make in life is permanent and has consequences, yet we make them routinely.

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#20 Z1ggy16

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 02:45 PM

View Postknock it close, on 15 April 2018 - 07:39 PM, said:

I see op is getting a tough time in here but doesn't Stockton advocate for just that, a shorter, simpler routine? Now obviously different things work for different people but I think paralysis by analysis is a real thing
Only read chapter 1 of his book, but yes. He says being mechanical, analyzing and "thinking" about the putt stroke itself is bad news bears. He said you need to see the line, the pace of the putt and make the ball roll on that line. I can see why a guy might check 360* around the hole to make sure it's perfection... but the more time you take I think it can put more doubt in your mind. Especially when you address the ball then stand there another 5 seconds before you hit.

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#21 Socrates

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 03:50 PM

View PostThe Pearl, on 16 April 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

View Postjslane57, on 16 April 2018 - 10:19 AM, said:

View PostSocrates, on 15 April 2018 - 05:31 PM, said:

Poulter was leaking oil and trying not to blow the motor so I don’t really blame him for taking some time.  It’s their job and trying to make a living.  I liken it to being at work and writing an email that’s important.  How many times do you re-read it, make some changes and then read it again before you send it because once you hit send, it’s permanent. Putting on tour is like that.
Best post I've read in a week! You could tell that Poulter wanted to keep a routine, he wanted to be able to just hit the putts in, but he had lost it. If he'd missed two more putts from being careless, instead of being in a tie for 7th, he'd be in a tie for 16th. I haven't looked at the payout, but the difference would probably have been like $100,000.00. Yes, for most of us regular golfers, sticking to routine is the best way to be successful, and maybe a little faster too.

This all depends if by "taking his time" was really just defaulting back to his normal routine.  Anything other than this is just a coincidence.  At some point, stalking a putt becomes an act in diminishing returns.  If it weren't than rounds would be 8 hours long.  Every decision we make in life is permanent and has consequences, yet we make them routinely.
Almost all of us make our decisions in anonymity.  When you're in the final group(s), the whole golf world is watching and ready to critique you.  Good or bad.
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#22 Dr. Block

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 04:33 PM

This thread makes me think about how Jack used to stand over putts forever.  Like he was breaking the will of the cup until it surrendered.

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#23 Roadking2003

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 05:11 PM

View PostSean2, on 15 April 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

I myself don't do any of that when I putt (I can't remember the last time I did a 360 to analyze a putt). But, with so much on the line for the professionals I understand why they do it.

But that wasn't the question.   The OP question was "would faster putting reduce stress and improve their putting".

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#24 BNGL

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 06:35 PM

Fun fact grain doesn't have much effect in ball roll, and when its present it grows downhill.

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#25 ThinkingPlus

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 09:17 PM

View PostBNGL, on 16 April 2018 - 06:35 PM, said:

Fun fact grain doesn't have much effect in ball roll, and when its present it grows downhill.
Er, what flavor of Bermuda are you referring to?  Wouldn't argue much about all the brand new drawf hybrids, but old school standard Bermuda grain can just about cause the ball to turn around in a circle (especially when running low on the Stimpmeter).

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#26 bladehunter

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 09:36 PM

View PostThinkingPlus, on 16 April 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

View PostBNGL, on 16 April 2018 - 06:35 PM, said:

Fun fact grain doesn't have much effect in ball roll, and when its present it grows downhill.
Er, what flavor of Bermuda are you referring to?  Wouldn't argue much about all the brand new drawf hybrids, but old school standard Bermuda grain can just about cause the ball to turn around in a circle (especially when running low on the Stimpmeter).


amen sister !.....   if anyone doesnt believe that and is ever in upstate SC PM me ..ill treat you to a devlish 18 greens of Bermuda...You wont ever laugh at grain again i promise... I call them Velcro greens...  could be rolling 11 down  hill and 7 uphill the same green. sometimes grain flows down the center of a slope and off to one side ... get a putt across that and you literally cant hit it high enough to get make it stay online... you just hope to 2 putt.   or my favorite ...  Hit a dead handed pw into a slope thats directly down grain and watch it suck back 20 feet off the green it gets going so fast.... but the chip coming back up cannot be hit to the hole with anything less than a 8 iron ...  anything else will check and die.   ive seen putts roll uphill at the cup ..   or putts break on one side of the cup 6 inches and on the opposite side go dead straight defying the slope and gravity....  all this and they look perfectly smooth and healthy.. in fact the issue is that they are too healthy ...
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26

#27 ThinkingPlus

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 09:47 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 16 April 2018 - 09:36 PM, said:

View PostThinkingPlus, on 16 April 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

View PostBNGL, on 16 April 2018 - 06:35 PM, said:

Fun fact grain doesn't have much effect in ball roll, and when its present it grows downhill.
Er, what flavor of Bermuda are you referring to?  Wouldn't argue much about all the brand new drawf hybrids, but old school standard Bermuda grain can just about cause the ball to turn around in a circle (especially when running low on the Stimpmeter).


amen sister !.....   if anyone doesnt believe that and is ever in upstate SC PM me ..ill treat you to a devlish 18 greens of Bermuda...You wont ever laugh at grain again i promise... I call them Velcro greens...  could be rolling 11 down  hill and 7 uphill the same green. sometimes grain flows down the center of a slope and off to one side ... get a putt across that and you literally cant hit it high enough to get make it stay online... you just hope to 2 putt.   or my favorite ...  Hit a dead handed pw into a slope thats directly down grain and watch it suck back 20 feet off the green it gets going so fast.... but the chip coming back up cannot be hit to the hole with anything less than a 8 iron ...  anything else will check and die.   ive seen putts roll uphill at the cup ..   or putts break on one side of the cup 6 inches and on the opposite side go dead straight defying the slope and gravity....  all this and they look perfectly smooth and healthy.. in fact the issue is that they are too healthy ...
As much as I dislike old school Bermuda greens it isn't near as prevalent as it used to be (at least around here), but old school Bermuda rough around the greens is still everywhere and very aggravating.  Hitting a bump and run that hits a couple feet short of the green and never makes the green turns my hair grey.  Rejected!
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27

#28 BNGL

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 07:13 AM

View PostThinkingPlus, on 16 April 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

View PostBNGL, on 16 April 2018 - 06:35 PM, said:

Fun fact grain doesn't have much effect in ball roll, and when its present it grows downhill.
Er, what flavor of Bermuda are you referring to?  Wouldn't argue much about all the brand new drawf hybrids, but old school standard Bermuda grain can just about cause the ball to turn around in a circle (especially when running low on the Stimpmeter).

I should have added the disclaimer for greens cut less than .110-.105 like the PGA Tour. You're not getting significant effect on ball roll from grain at those heights.

I've had it out with Faldo/Maltbie/Pepper a few times when the Tour came through, saw them out putting greens before play went over said hello, and a comment was made about the grain ripping away from a location I corrected them etc. And they know it too, basically the most common response, "I have to say something"

Through topdressing programs, verticutting, and application of growth regulators. There's such a stunting of growth on the lead blade, it simply not there to affect the roll.

28

#29 Socrates

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 08:47 AM

View PostBNGL, on 17 April 2018 - 07:13 AM, said:

View PostThinkingPlus, on 16 April 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

View PostBNGL, on 16 April 2018 - 06:35 PM, said:

Fun fact grain doesn't have much effect in ball roll, and when its present it grows downhill.
Er, what flavor of Bermuda are you referring to?  Wouldn't argue much about all the brand new drawf hybrids, but old school standard Bermuda grain can just about cause the ball to turn around in a circle (especially when running low on the Stimpmeter).

I should have added the disclaimer for greens cut less than .110-.105 like the PGA Tour. You're not getting significant effect on ball roll from grain at those heights.

I've had it out with Faldo/Maltbie/Pepper a few times when the Tour came through, saw them out putting greens before play went over said hello, and a comment was made about the grain ripping away from a location I corrected them etc. And they know it too, basically the most common response, "I have to say something"

Through topdressing programs, verticutting, and application of growth regulators. There's such a stunting of growth on the lead blade, it simply not there to affect the roll.
It drives me nuts when announcers say the grain goes in the direction of the setting sun.  So when the earth's relationship with the sun changes with the seasons, does the grass grow in a different direction?!?
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29

#30 BNGL

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 09:18 AM

View PostSocrates, on 17 April 2018 - 08:47 AM, said:

View PostBNGL, on 17 April 2018 - 07:13 AM, said:

View PostThinkingPlus, on 16 April 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

View PostBNGL, on 16 April 2018 - 06:35 PM, said:

Fun fact grain doesn't have much effect in ball roll, and when its present it grows downhill.
Er, what flavor of Bermuda are you referring to?  Wouldn't argue much about all the brand new drawf hybrids, but old school standard Bermuda grain can just about cause the ball to turn around in a circle (especially when running low on the Stimpmeter).

I should have added the disclaimer for greens cut less than .110-.105 like the PGA Tour. You're not getting significant effect on ball roll from grain at those heights.

I've had it out with Faldo/Maltbie/Pepper a few times when the Tour came through, saw them out putting greens before play went over said hello, and a comment was made about the grain ripping away from a location I corrected them etc. And they know it too, basically the most common response, "I have to say something"

Through topdressing programs, verticutting, and application of growth regulators. There's such a stunting of growth on the lead blade, it simply not there to affect the roll.
It drives me nuts when announcers say the grain goes in the direction of the setting sun.  So when the earth's relationship with the sun changes with the seasons, does the grass grow in a different direction?!?

Another fun fact that announcers perpetuate is that greens get quicker from the morning rounds to afternoon rounds


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