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Jimmy Ballard - The Connected Golf Swing

Jimmy Ballard Connection

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#61 97speedster

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 04:24 AM

View Postggpro, on 10 May 2018 - 06:01 PM, said:

Nice to have you here, I remember your posts from the other site.

Curious....what do you see as the biggest differences between Butch and Jimmy? I've worked with Jimmy and some of his associates since 1988 but also have worked with one of Butch's assistants last year.

Which assistant did you work with? Styles of Butch vs Ballard are different, but the main principles are very close. Both want a wider base, both want you to coil behind the ball, both want the club in front of your body going back and down, both want a strong release and like the split grip practice swing to feel it. Butch wants more width in the swing by keeping the right arm straighter with less bend in it. Butch says nice things about Ballard and even told Ballard to his face once at a summit that he thought he was one of the few teachers that new what he was talking about.

WITB in 2018
Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
Putter:
TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X

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#62 golfer07840

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 12:30 PM

View Post97speedster, on 14 May 2018 - 04:15 AM, said:

View Postgolfer07840, on 10 May 2018 - 08:02 AM, said:

View Postggpro, on 09 May 2018 - 08:23 PM, said:

View Postgolfer07840, on 08 May 2018 - 11:39 AM, said:

Loved hitting irons and wedges with the Ballard method.

HATE, HATE HATE hitting driver with it. Slice after slice and if it is straight, it's very short. (Right or wrong, the biggest criticism of the Ballard swing is you "can't hit it out of your shadow" off the tee.)


Hmmm...Jim Dent, Art Sellinger, Mike Dunaway, Jesper all hit it pretty long using the Ballard method.....

If I recall, all big guys with really long arms that naturally created width.

I'm 6'3" and my wing span is only 5'11".

I might be 5'10 and my wing span is a heck of a lot shorter than that. Torque and rotation work best for me.

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#63 ggpro

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 12:37 AM

View Post97speedster, on 14 May 2018 - 04:24 AM, said:

View Postggpro, on 10 May 2018 - 06:01 PM, said:

Nice to have you here, I remember your posts from the other site.

Curious....what do you see as the biggest differences between Butch and Jimmy? I've worked with Jimmy and some of his associates since 1988 but also have worked with one of Butch's assistants last year.

Which assistant did you work with? Styles of Butch vs Ballard are different, but the main principles are very close. Both want a wider base, both want you to coil behind the ball, both want the club in front of your body going back and down, both want a strong release and like the split grip practice swing to feel it. Butch wants more width in the swing by keeping the right arm straighter with less bend in it. Butch says nice things about Ballard and even told Ballard to his face once at a summit that he thought he was one of the few teachers that new what he was talking about.

Working with Bill Abrams now, have worked in the past with Steve Wozeniak, Todd Marian, Rick Jones, Rick (can't remember his last name, at the range in Ft. Lauderdale) and Artie McNickle.

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#64 golfer07840

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 07:34 AM

View Postgolfer07840, on 14 May 2018 - 12:30 PM, said:

View Post97speedster, on 14 May 2018 - 04:15 AM, said:

View Postgolfer07840, on 10 May 2018 - 08:02 AM, said:

View Postggpro, on 09 May 2018 - 08:23 PM, said:

View Postgolfer07840, on 08 May 2018 - 11:39 AM, said:

Loved hitting irons and wedges with the Ballard method.

HATE, HATE HATE hitting driver with it. Slice after slice and if it is straight, it's very short. (Right or wrong, the biggest criticism of the Ballard swing is you "can't hit it out of your shadow" off the tee.)


Hmmm...Jim Dent, Art Sellinger, Mike Dunaway, Jesper all hit it pretty long using the Ballard method.....

If I recall, all big guys with really long arms that naturally created width.

I'm 6'3" and my wing span is only 5'11".

I might be 5'10 and my wing span is a heck of a lot shorter than that. Torque and rotation work best for me.

on 2nd thought.... 2 mid 90's scores later and hitting every iron thin and left...

Anyone have any crow I can munch on?

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#65 Jedaigeki

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Posted 05 June 2018 - 05:39 AM

View Postgolow, on 12 April 2018 - 09:30 PM, said:

Tibs,

Wow blast from the past. 15 years ago or so you sent me a basic routine to work on putting. I still have it saved and a copy is in my 16 year old sons iPhone notes. He's a bit streaky but when he's on it's scary. Thanks.

golow™

I'd be interested in seeing a copy of these note if you're willing to share :-)

Edited by Jedaigeki, 05 June 2018 - 05:42 AM.


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#66 PreppySlapCut

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Posted 05 June 2018 - 07:56 AM

View PostJedaigeki, on 05 June 2018 - 05:39 AM, said:

View Postgolow, on 12 April 2018 - 09:30 PM, said:

Tibs,

Wow blast from the past. 15 years ago or so you sent me a basic routine to work on putting. I still have it saved and a copy is in my 16 year old sons iPhone notes. He's a bit streaky but when he's on it's scary. Thanks.

golow™

I'd be interested in seeing a copy of these note if you're willing to share :-)
He just posted a thread with his notes on putting.
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#67 Jedaigeki

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Posted 05 June 2018 - 08:07 AM

In the linked article Annika says this: "I've always rotated my head toward the target at impact. People ask me why I lift my head. I don't. I rotate it. This enables me to clear my hips and transfer the weight to my left side. It also prevents hanging back in a 'reverse-C' posture, which can put pressure on your lower back. Try it and see if it doesn't free up your swing a lot like it used to be."

https://www.golfdige...-off-your-swing

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#68 firstbatch

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Posted 05 June 2018 - 03:21 PM

That’s a great article. Thanks for posting!
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#69 97speedster

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 08:03 AM

View Postggpro, on 15 May 2018 - 12:37 AM, said:


Working with Bill Abrams now, have worked in the past with Steve Wozeniak, Todd Marian, Rick Jones, Rick (can't remember his last name, at the range in Ft. Lauderdale) and Artie McNickle.

Rick Richardson is his name. While most of Jimmy's disciples are pretty good and won't do harm, Jimmy just has an unreal eye for teaching and gets right to the point.
WITB in 2018
Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
Putter:
TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X

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#70 Jedaigeki

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 04:02 AM

It's a shame that apart from his book, alot of Jimmy's philosophy and principles are hard to come by.

I'm someone who likes to have plenty of references to read and study when learning the swing and Jimmy's stuff just isn't out there enough.

This topic has been awesome but I just wish there was more of his stuff out there and discussed as it would really give a more rounded picture of his swing model and method.


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#71 JDFish

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 10:59 AM

https://jimmyballard...=7516fd43adaa  

I was given a copy of this and this hour long video walks you through his 7 or 8 "fundamentals"
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#72 Marks23

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 12:06 PM

Just found some newly posted 1989 videos of Jimmy Ballard (The Fundamental Golf Swing) on youtube.  Very informative

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#73 JDFish

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 06:52 PM

View PostMarks23, on 21 June 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:

Just found some newly posted 1989 videos of Jimmy Ballard (The Fundamental Golf Swing) on youtube.  Very informative

Much of what is in those videos make up the DVD I referred to above.

Edited by JDFish, 21 June 2018 - 06:54 PM.

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#74 rocketjp3

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Posted 25 June 2018 - 01:48 AM

First post ever.  Started playing at age 42 after a school hall of fame career in baseball, football, and nationally ranked tennis.  Read Hogans book and like he said broke 80 in 6 months.  Picked up Ballards book in an airport bookstore soon thereafter. It cleared up a lot of confusion from Hogan.  Got to a 7 hcap in 3 years while pursuing a full-time business career, only playing on weekends and vacation, actually shooting a 68 and several other par or under rounds from time to time.  Retired at 52 and tried to see how good I could get, playing club, local and amateur senior events, winning a few club and local championships as a 4-6 hcap. Short hitter, accurate, good short game and putter.  Started trying every method out there to increase distance (sound familiar)?  Became very confused and frustrated and quit at age 64.  Now 71 and starting back with the goal of shooting my age, despite rotator cuff injuries and two carpal tunnel surgeries this year.  This thread is music to my ears as I have committed to the Ballard method again and recently had Steve Wozniak look at my swing and got a glowing confirmation that I've got it right.  I particularly like to refer to Speedsters checklist on this forum to remind myself of the fundamentals. Hitting it great and no back pain.  With more practice and course time I'm confident I will achieve my goal one of these years. Thanks to all who have posted.  You have inspired me.

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#75 97speedster

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Posted 25 June 2018 - 05:14 AM

That's a great story, keep it up!

WITB in 2018
Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
Putter:
TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X

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#76 DonRSD

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 08:47 PM

For some odd reason I can't stop hooking the ball.

Gap, 54 & 60 all fly farther than usual and super straight. Beautiful inside of 120 yards for me. Simply "drop the hands" into the zone and off goes the ball.....no effort needed.

PW, 9 iron all the way to driver = hooking a lot. I have the ball in the front, inside of my left heel for all shots, but keep hooking. Bill Abrams told me to keep it forward for all my shots as I was moving the ball back towards the middle
Good contact on the sweet spot, just going left with a duck hook.

Also need to fix my shoulders - I feel like my left shoulder on the downswing is pulling upwards (I am doing it consciously trying to get the ball to go towards contact) because if I spin-out with my shoulders  I get horrible contact.....I dont think thats correct and dont know how to fix it / pre-swing thought. My tendency has been to turn to get the left shoulder behind the ball and up with the left shoulder for the downswing.

​I also feel like I have to "swing harder" on all my clubs besides my wedges, which I didnt have to do a month ago when I was doing better with the Ballard swing. Almost feel like I hit a brick wall (ugh). Feels like I cant "feel" the weight go back and forward anymore, so I am swinging with more upper body & rotation/spinning out.

Also been getting some lower back pain after rounds and the next day - so I have a feeling I am not doing the Ballard swing correctly.

Any help from my fellow Ballard fans?

Edited by DonRSD, 03 July 2018 - 07:46 AM.

Driver: Ping G400 Max
3 Wood: Ping G400
Irons: TM P790 (2-AW)
Wedges: Vokey 54 & 60
Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2 (2018)

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#77 FourTops

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 10:25 PM

It's kinda like instructions for how to walk on an 18" wide board laying on the ground...then walk on the same board 30 stories high between two buildings.

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#78 torbill

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 06:40 AM

Don, you mention your left shoulder.  If it feels like it is moving upward on the downswing that is something that you don’t want.  Are you rocking your hips rather than turning them?  If you look at the YouTube video of Ballard and Mediate on the Golf Channel, you will see Ballard talking about his “best tip ever”, which is a comparison with how Hogan went from rocking his hips (and snap hooking) to turning his hips.

Below is a tip by Johnny Miller that kept him out of the water on #18 at Pebble (read, no hook, GUARANTEED).  This tip is in every way consistent with what Ballard teaches.  For me, it is a different way of getting the same movement as Ballard does when he talks about backhanding somebody.  Since you are able to feel your shoulder on the downswing the Miller thought might be more helpful for you than the backhand thought - either will do the same thing in my experience, which is to get the forward weight transfer and hips moving correctly.  Note Miller’s comment about “sway and stay”.  Maybe sway and stay and hips rocking is your problem?  The most fundamental improvement that I got out of changing to the Ballard swing method was to stop those horrendous snap hooks that would jump up from nowhere, for me it is impossible to hook a shot if I do this swing correctly.  This swing is hook-proof.

https://youtu.be/fMzSueRvb_k

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#79 DonRSD

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 10:28 AM

View Posttorbill, on 02 July 2018 - 06:40 AM, said:

Don, you mention your left shoulder.  If it feels like it is moving upward on the downswing that is something that you don’t want.  Are you rocking your hips rather than turning them?  If you look at the YouTube video of Ballard and Mediate on the Golf Channel, you will see Ballard talking about his “best tip ever”, which is a comparison with how Hogan went from rocking his hips (and snap hooking) to turning his hips.

Below is a tip by Johnny Miller that kept him out of the water on #18 at Pebble (read, no hook, GUARANTEED).  This tip is in every way consistent with what Ballard teaches.  For me, it is a different way of getting the same movement as Ballard does when he talks about backhanding somebody.  Since you are able to feel your shoulder on the downswing the Miller thought might be more helpful for you than the backhand thought - either will do the same thing in my experience, which is to get the forward weight transfer and hips moving correctly.  Note Miller’s comment about “sway and stay”.  Maybe sway and stay and hips rocking is your problem?  The most fundamental improvement that I got out of changing to the Ballard swing method was to stop those horrendous snap hooks that would jump up from nowhere, for me it is impossible to hook a shot if I do this swing correctly.  This swing is hook-proof.

https://youtu.be/fMzSueRvb_k

Good point! I think I have deviated from the Ballard path a smidge. Here is the issue with that video (I am sure its a "user error"), but if I try to get that left shoulder forward - I find myself getting all my weight forward very quick and leaning forward (my shoulder facing the ground in front of me).

Maybe I need to focus more on hitting from my ankles & knees, as opposed to using my upper body?

As for the downswing......should the right shoulder come underneath after the weight goes forward to hit OR does the right shoulder stay lateral/spin through impact???
I ask because that seems to be my issue on everything but the wedges. For the wedges I can essentially "drop the club" into impact and hit it beautifully. For anything from 9 iron to driver my hards are away from my body at et-up and impact to simply "drop them to ball".......HELP!!!

Edited by DonRSD, 02 July 2018 - 10:30 AM.

Driver: Ping G400 Max
3 Wood: Ping G400
Irons: TM P790 (2-AW)
Wedges: Vokey 54 & 60
Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2 (2018)

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#80 JDFish

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:08 AM

View PostDonRSD, on 01 July 2018 - 08:47 PM, said:

For some odd reason I can't stop hooking the ball.

Gap, 54 & 60 all fly farther than usual and super straight. Beautiful inside of 120 yards for me. Simply "drop the hands" into the zone and off goes the ball.....no effort needed.

PW, 9 iron all the way to driver = hooking a lot. I have the ball in the front, inside of my left heel for all shots, but keep hooking. Bill Abrams told me to keep it forward for all my shots as I was moving the ball back towards the middle
Good contact on the sweet spot, just going left with a duck hook.

Also need to fix my shoulders - I feel like my left shoulder on the downswing is pulling upwards (I am doing it consciously trying to get the ball to go towards contact) because if I spin-out with my shoulders  I get horrible contact.....I dont think thats correct and dont know how to fix it / pre-swing thought. My tendency has been to turn to get the left shoulder behind the ball and up with the left shoulder for the downswing.

​I also feel like I have to "swing harder" on all my clubs besides my wedges, which I didnt have to do a month ago when I was doing better with the Ballard swing. Almost feel like I hit a brick wall (ugh). Feels like I cant "feel" the weight go back and forward anymore, so I am swinging with more upper body & rotation/spinning out.

Also been getting some lower back pain after rounds and the next day - so I have a feeling I am not doing the Ballard swing correctly.

Any help from my fellow Ballard fans?


My hooks (and pushes) are mainly caused by me not maintaining level hips when getting to my left side i.e. hanging back and flipping the hands.  I was given two drills to help with this:  (1) the "step through", a la Gary Player, and (2) Assuming you are right handed, pointing your right index finger down the shaft and swinging so that the finger points to the ball at the bottom of the downswing.   I do both in practice swings and it really helps me get away from hanging back.

Good luck!

Callaway Epic 9.0 Fujikura Atmos Black TS 6S
Callaway XR Pro 3 wood
Callaway XR 5 wood
Titleist 913H 21* hybrid
Ping i200 Nippon N.S.Pro Modus3 Tour 105S - 4-UW
Titleist Vokey SM6 54* and 58* S200
Evnroll ER8 33"

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#81 torbill

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 05:35 PM

View PostDonRSD, on 02 July 2018 - 10:28 AM, said:

View Posttorbill, on 02 July 2018 - 06:40 AM, said:

Don, you mention your left shoulder.  If it feels like it is moving upward on the downswing that is something that you don’t want.  Are you rocking your hips rather than turning them?  If you look at the YouTube video of Ballard and Mediate on the Golf Channel, you will see Ballard talking about his “best tip ever”, which is a comparison with how Hogan went from rocking his hips (and snap hooking) to turning his hips.

Below is a tip by Johnny Miller that kept him out of the water on #18 at Pebble (read, no hook, GUARANTEED).  This tip is in every way consistent with what Ballard teaches.  For me, it is a different way of getting the same movement as Ballard does when he talks about backhanding somebody.  Since you are able to feel your shoulder on the downswing the Miller thought might be more helpful for you than the backhand thought - either will do the same thing in my experience, which is to get the forward weight transfer and hips moving correctly.  Note Miller’s comment about “sway and stay”.  Maybe sway and stay and hips rocking is your problem?  The most fundamental improvement that I got out of changing to the Ballard swing method was to stop those horrendous snap hooks that would jump up from nowhere, for me it is impossible to hook a shot if I do this swing correctly.  This swing is hook-proof.

https://youtu.be/fMzSueRvb_k

Good point! I think I have deviated from the Ballard path a smidge. Here is the issue with that video (I am sure its a "user error"), but if I try to get that left shoulder forward - I find myself getting all my weight forward very quick and leaning forward (my shoulder facing the ground in front of me).

Maybe I need to focus more on hitting from my ankles & knees, as opposed to using my upper body?

As for the downswing......should the right shoulder come underneath after the weight goes forward to hit OR does the right shoulder stay lateral/spin through impact???
I ask because that seems to be my issue on everything but the wedges. For the wedges I can essentially "drop the club" into impact and hit it beautifully. For anything from 9 iron to driver my hards are away from my body at et-up and impact to simply "drop them to ball".......HELP!!!

Hard to say without actually seeing what you are doing.  Maybe you are overdoing it and lunging forward(?).  Maybe you are tipping your spine backward, away from the target, on the backswing and then tipping it forward on the downswing so that you feel that your shoulder is pointed down(?)  Hard to say.  

Here is what is true:  If you simply return your left shoulder to the address position, all the while maintaining your spine angle without it tipping away from or toward the target, your shoulders are going to be pretty level at impact and they are going to rotate to a level finish.  it will feel as though your left shoulder has pulled your lower body forward although, in reality, it is your lower body that caused the shoulder to return to the address position - this is the beauty of it, it gets the weight off the back leg.  No, the right shoulder should not come underneath on the downswing.  If it does, it is the early-career Hogan move that is caused by rocking the hips, rather than shifting and turning them level.  If it does, it means that you are hanging back and hitting into a reverse-C and you are going to aggregate your back problems and you are probably going to do a lot of flipping of the arms and hands.  The Miller move is the Ballard backhand move, felt differently.  If you were going to backhand something would you drop your right shoulder?  No, you would stand tall with your right side and drive the back of your hand at the target.

What does your finish look like?  Are you hitting into a reverse-C or are you finishing with your hips and shoulders level and your back unbowed?

21

#82 DonRSD

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Posted 03 July 2018 - 07:56 AM

View PostJDFish, on 02 July 2018 - 11:08 AM, said:

My hooks (and pushes) are mainly caused by me not maintaining level hips when getting to my left side i.e. hanging back and flipping the hands.  I was given two drills to help with this:  (1) the "step through", a la Gary Player, and (2) Assuming you are right handed, pointing your right index finger down the shaft and swinging so that the finger points to the ball at the bottom of the downswing.   I do both in practice swings and it really helps me get away from hanging back.

Good luck!


That is exactly what I am doing.....hanging back and flipping. I have seen the finger point drill and will use that for my practice swings today. Funny how I see a lot of thing, yet dont remember them lol.
Bill Abrams always told me to get off the right side and go forward the second the left shoulder crosses the ball. He said I have a tendency to hang back.

Thanks JD!


View Posttorbill, on 02 July 2018 - 05:35 PM, said:

View PostDonRSD, on 02 July 2018 - 10:28 AM, said:

View Posttorbill, on 02 July 2018 - 06:40 AM, said:

Don, you mention your left shoulder.  If it feels like it is moving upward on the downswing that is something that you don’t want.  Are you rocking your hips rather than turning them?  If you look at the YouTube video of Ballard and Mediate on the Golf Channel, you will see Ballard talking about his “best tip ever”, which is a comparison with how Hogan went from rocking his hips (and snap hooking) to turning his hips.

Below is a tip by Johnny Miller that kept him out of the water on #18 at Pebble (read, no hook, GUARANTEED).  This tip is in every way consistent with what Ballard teaches.  For me, it is a different way of getting the same movement as Ballard does when he talks about backhanding somebody.  Since you are able to feel your shoulder on the downswing the Miller thought might be more helpful for you than the backhand thought - either will do the same thing in my experience, which is to get the forward weight transfer and hips moving correctly.  Note Miller’s comment about “sway and stay”.  Maybe sway and stay and hips rocking is your problem?  The most fundamental improvement that I got out of changing to the Ballard swing method was to stop those horrendous snap hooks that would jump up from nowhere, for me it is impossible to hook a shot if I do this swing correctly.  This swing is hook-proof.

https://youtu.be/fMzSueRvb_k

Good point! I think I have deviated from the Ballard path a smidge. Here is the issue with that video (I am sure its a "user error"), but if I try to get that left shoulder forward - I find myself getting all my weight forward very quick and leaning forward (my shoulder facing the ground in front of me).

Maybe I need to focus more on hitting from my ankles & knees, as opposed to using my upper body?

As for the downswing......should the right shoulder come underneath after the weight goes forward to hit OR does the right shoulder stay lateral/spin through impact???
I ask because that seems to be my issue on everything but the wedges. For the wedges I can essentially "drop the club" into impact and hit it beautifully. For anything from 9 iron to driver my hards are away from my body at et-up and impact to simply "drop them to ball".......HELP!!!

Hard to say without actually seeing what you are doing.  Maybe you are overdoing it and lunging forward(?).  Maybe you are tipping your spine backward, away from the target, on the backswing and then tipping it forward on the downswing so that you feel that your shoulder is pointed down(?)  Hard to say.  

Here is what is true:  If you simply return your left shoulder to the address position, all the while maintaining your spine angle without it tipping away from or toward the target, your shoulders are going to be pretty level at impact and they are going to rotate to a level finish.  it will feel as though your left shoulder has pulled your lower body forward although, in reality, it is your lower body that caused the shoulder to return to the address position - this is the beauty of it, it gets the weight off the back leg.  No, the right shoulder should not come underneath on the downswing.  If it does, it is the early-career Hogan move that is caused by rocking the hips, rather than shifting and turning them level.  If it does, it means that you are hanging back and hitting into a reverse-C and you are going to aggregate your back problems and you are probably going to do a lot of flipping of the arms and hands.  The Miller move is the Ballard backhand move, felt differently.  If you were going to backhand something would you drop your right shoulder?  No, you would stand tall with your right side and drive the back of your hand at the target.

What does your finish look like?  Are you hitting into a reverse-C or are you finishing with your hips and shoulders level and your back unbowed?

Recently I have been getting into a reverse-C because for some reason I have been focused on getting my right shoulder under my chin at impact.
Bill Abrams told me to "swing from he ankles & knees, not the upper body". For some reason I have fallen into old habits of swinging with my upper body.
As for flipping - I flip a LOT. When its timed up correctly - its a baby draw. When its not timed up the shot is a severe duck hook.

My left shoulder points down to the ground on the downswing when I think about getting the weight forward with my shoulder.....yes, its like I am lunging forward. When I take practice swings (tonight and this morning) and I think about the lower body weight going forward / pushing off the right foot - I stay level and no back pain. The hands just follow the legs/lat area and its very effortless.

As for the shoulders on the downswing - should the left shoulder spin open, pull upward, hold the left shoulder back, get the left shoulder down the line or dont think about it? I am a little confused there.
Should my follow thru be up (high) and to the target, or around to the left?

Very good post torbill.

Edited by DonRSD, 03 July 2018 - 07:59 AM.

Driver: Ping G400 Max
3 Wood: Ping G400
Irons: TM P790 (2-AW)
Wedges: Vokey 54 & 60
Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2 (2018)

22

#83 97speedster

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Posted 03 July 2018 - 09:41 AM

View PostDonRSD, on 01 July 2018 - 08:47 PM, said:

For some odd reason I can't stop hooking the ball.

Gap, 54 & 60 all fly farther than usual and super straight. Beautiful inside of 120 yards for me. Simply "drop the hands" into the zone and off goes the ball.....no effort needed.

PW, 9 iron all the way to driver = hooking a lot. I have the ball in the front, inside of my left heel for all shots, but keep hooking. Bill Abrams told me to keep it forward for all my shots as I was moving the ball back towards the middle
Good contact on the sweet spot, just going left with a duck hook.

Also need to fix my shoulders - I feel like my left shoulder on the downswing is pulling upwards (I am doing it consciously trying to get the ball to go towards contact) because if I spin-out with my shoulders  I get horrible contact.....I dont think thats correct and dont know how to fix it / pre-swing thought. My tendency has been to turn to get the left shoulder behind the ball and up with the left shoulder for the downswing.

​I also feel like I have to "swing harder" on all my clubs besides my wedges, which I didnt have to do a month ago when I was doing better with the Ballard swing. Almost feel like I hit a brick wall (ugh). Feels like I cant "feel" the weight go back and forward anymore, so I am swinging with more upper body & rotation/spinning out.

Also been getting some lower back pain after rounds and the next day - so I have a feeling I am not doing the Ballard swing correctly.

Any help from my fellow Ballard fans?


Pain is the first sign that you aren’t doing it correctly.... if you feel like the left shoulder is going up on the downswing, then that means the right shoulder must be going down, which is a death move. Also, trying to “turn” in the golf swing is not a feel that Jimmy ever uses.

Hooking the ball means that somewhere in the swing the club face is getting closed..... try to feel like the thumbs are more UNDER the shaft at the top of the backswing (this will help get the toe down instead of shut) then on the way down and don’t let the hips spin out, instead try to feel like the left foot stays flat on the ground into the finish and the weight goes more to the left toes instead of spinning on the left heel.

What might also really help your downswing would be to make two split grip practice swings before each full shot.... if you drop your right shoulder down then you will hit the ground before the correct impact point. This drill will help you keep your right side higher on the downswing and more level going back and through in your swing.

Edited by 97speedster, 03 July 2018 - 03:25 PM.

WITB in 2018
Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
Putter:
TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X

23

#84 DonRSD

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 04:28 PM

What does "spring the shaft with the right hand" mean and how is it done to start the downswing without the club face pointing left at impact?

Edited by DonRSD, 07 July 2018 - 04:31 PM.

Driver: Ping G400 Max
3 Wood: Ping G400
Irons: TM P790 (2-AW)
Wedges: Vokey 54 & 60
Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2 (2018)

24

#85 97speedster

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 04:32 AM

View PostDonRSD, on 07 July 2018 - 04:28 PM, said:

What does "spring the shaft with the right hand" mean and how is it done to start the downswing without the club face pointing left at impact?

The best way to explain it is to show you in an image.... in essence, it is not pulling on the handle on the downswing, and when done correctly, the power stored going back is fully released on the downswing in the proper sequence.

If the butt of the club and center (sternum of the body) relationship are maintained correctly there will be no flip, but when the butt of the club points right of center, then this is when a flip occurs and the ball goes left of your target.

Attached Thumbnails

  • post-97803-1275954220419_thumb.png

Edited by 97speedster, 08 July 2018 - 04:33 AM.

WITB in 2018
Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
Putter:
TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X

25

#86 DonRSD

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Posted 15 July 2018 - 04:51 PM

FINALLY stopped the duck hooks!!
My issue now is I can't feel the weight going backwards, thus get a few fat shots per round.

Today I started forcing the weight into my right glute/thigh and going forward became effortless - thus the hands didnt go ahead of the body.
Oh the backswing is the left shoulder supposed to go "around" the body" or just pull straight back?
I am having some issue with keeping the right wrist flat, as I tend to keep the entire right arm straight far too long on the backswing.....and dont let the right elbow fold.

Anyway to get a little more distance out of this swing?

Edited by DonRSD, 15 July 2018 - 04:53 PM.

Driver: Ping G400 Max
3 Wood: Ping G400
Irons: TM P790 (2-AW)
Wedges: Vokey 54 & 60
Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2 (2018)

26

#87 torbill

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Posted 15 July 2018 - 09:37 PM

View PostDonRSD, on 15 July 2018 - 04:51 PM, said:

FINALLY stopped the duck hooks!!
My issue now is I can't feel the weight going backwards, thus get a few fat shots per round.

Today I started forcing the weight into my right glute/thigh and going forward became effortless - thus the hands didnt go ahead of the body.
Oh the backswing is the left shoulder supposed to go "around" the body" or just pull straight back?
I am having some issue with keeping the right wrist flat, as I tend to keep the entire right arm straight far too long on the backswing.....and dont let the right elbow fold.

Anyway to get a little more distance out of this swing?

You cannot perform the Ballard method without proper footwork, which you don’t seem to have, or you would be getting a better weight shift.  Also, from your previous posts and this one, you seem to be overly-focused on what you should be doing with your arms, shoulders, wrists, and the like.  

It is the lower body, not the upper body, that should be the primary source of your attention until you learn how to properly coil into your right leg.  If you would just set up carefully and correctly - neutral grip, inside feet at outside shoulder width, right foot square, left foot turned out, spine not tipped toward or away from the target, butt of club pointing at belly button not pressed, slight tension on inner thighs, weight lifter posture - and let your arms and shoulders be soft and relaxed and relatively passive in the takeaway, and focus your attention on proper lower body movement, your upper body will almost certainly get into a reasonably decent position, maybe not perfect, but you can’t focus on everything all at once, and lower body and footwork is the place to start.  If you will just let your lower body take your upper body where it will go, about the only things that you really have to do at this point with the upper body are to keep your left elbow pointed at the ground and avoid letting your spine tip toward or away from the target.  Your first move should be a breaking of the left knee away from the target, this gets it going with no arm swinging at all except in response to the lower body going back.

Somebody has posted new (old) Ballard videos on YouTube.  Check this one out at the 17:45 mark:

https://youtu.be/mER-Ja3SwJ4

This is a Ballard assistant.  What he does is about as perfect a representation of what I am suggesting as there can be.  Watch and listen to what he says.  Get your lower body to work properly and you will hit the ball further than you ever thought you could.  Focus on upper body without first getting your lower body working right and you will be all over the golf course.  Forever.  Guaranteed.  Believe me, I know, I have been there.  

Good luck!


27

#88 97speedster

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 04:50 AM

View PostDonRSD, on 15 July 2018 - 04:51 PM, said:

FINALLY stopped the duck hooks!!
My issue now is I can't feel the weight going backwards, thus get a few fat shots per round.

Today I started forcing the weight into my right glute/thigh and going forward became effortless - thus the hands didnt go ahead of the body.
Oh the backswing is the left shoulder supposed to go "around" the body" or just pull straight back?
I am having some issue with keeping the right wrist flat, as I tend to keep the entire right arm straight far too long on the backswing.....and dont let the right elbow fold.

Anyway to get a little more distance out of this swing?

Getting more distance with the Ballard swing will come from a better/shallower angle of attack while compressing the ball more at impact. I think there is a fine line between shaft lean being ideal and too much..... too much can lead to your miss being a hook. When I'm not feeling like I am compressing the ball and maximizing my distance then I practice what Ballard teaches while using the DST Compressor 8-iron, it's the best dynamic way I have found to compression: http://shop.dstgolf....pressor-8-iron/

In regards to the shoulder plane, the shoulders should work pretty vertical and not around.... Ballard likes his students to feel like the right shoulder works UP (not around) on the backswing while you coil into the right leg,... Hal Sutton always did this real well: https://www.youtube....h?v=kqTVlLar_JM

Edited by 97speedster, 19 July 2018 - 04:53 AM.

WITB in 2018
Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
Putter:
TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X

28

#89 DonRSD

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 07:30 AM

View Posttorbill, on 15 July 2018 - 09:37 PM, said:

View PostDonRSD, on 15 July 2018 - 04:51 PM, said:

FINALLY stopped the duck hooks!!
My issue now is I can't feel the weight going backwards, thus get a few fat shots per round.

Today I started forcing the weight into my right glute/thigh and going forward became effortless - thus the hands didnt go ahead of the body.
Oh the backswing is the left shoulder supposed to go "around" the body" or just pull straight back?
I am having some issue with keeping the right wrist flat, as I tend to keep the entire right arm straight far too long on the backswing.....and dont let the right elbow fold.

Anyway to get a little more distance out of this swing?

You cannot perform the Ballard method without proper footwork, which you don’t seem to have, or you would be getting a better weight shift.  Also, from your previous posts and this one, you seem to be overly-focused on what you should be doing with your arms, shoulders, wrists, and the like.  

It is the lower body, not the upper body, that should be the primary source of your attention until you learn how to properly coil into your right leg.  If you would just set up carefully and correctly - neutral grip, inside feet at outside shoulder width, right foot square, left foot turned out, spine not tipped toward or away from the target, butt of club pointing at belly button not pressed, slight tension on inner thighs, weight lifter posture - and let your arms and shoulders be soft and relaxed and relatively passive in the takeaway, and focus your attention on proper lower body movement, your upper body will almost certainly get into a reasonably decent position, maybe not perfect, but you can’t focus on everything all at once, and lower body and footwork is the place to start.  If you will just let your lower body take your upper body where it will go, about the only things that you really have to do at this point with the upper body are to keep your left elbow pointed at the ground and avoid letting your spine tip toward or away from the target.  Your first move should be a breaking of the left knee away from the target, this gets it going with no arm swinging at all except in response to the lower body going back.

Somebody has posted new (old) Ballard videos on YouTube.  Check this one out at the 17:45 mark:

https://youtu.be/mER-Ja3SwJ4

This is a Ballard assistant.  What he does is about as perfect a representation of what I am suggesting as there can be.  Watch and listen to what he says.  Get your lower body to work properly and you will hit the ball further than you ever thought you could.  Focus on upper body without first getting your lower body working right and you will be all over the golf course.  Forever.  Guaranteed.  Believe me, I know, I have been there.  

Good luck!
The YouTube link does not work.

Inside feet shoulder width......does that go for ALL clubs from driver to PW or the width gets narrower as the club gets shorter? I remember Bill Abrams telling me (when I started learning the swing) that I was getting "too wide". Of course I was really wide at 1st to learn the weight transfer, but as time as gone on (and Bill went to Illinois for the summer months) I have noticed that the stance is getting narrower and narrower. Seems like I am spinning more than pushing the weight down the line.

When youre setting up for the shot, do you have the ball on the inside of your left heel? If so, the butt of the club will point backwards to the belly buttoned the club is lofted more. Will the club deloft when coming thru impact or what? Little confused there.
As for delofting the club /hands forward - how is that attained with the JB swing?

As for coiling - I can feel the weight going back, but old habits kick in sometimes. Now I focus on getting the weight into my inside right thigh & glute area. At that point its easy to push forward/down the line and feels effortless in the upper body. Hit a few 3 irons 240-250 on Wednesday.
If the weight doesn't "load" then I am way arms-y and ball either hooks left for a closed face or slices right for an open face. Funny thing is I can feel it.

I also had an issue with the right shoulder dipping. Did the split hand grip/swing and noticed the club was bottoming out before the ball. I remembered to swing "like a SS throwing to 2B" and contact/ball flight have been so much better. Its a lot easier to swing with a sideways right arm motion when the weight transfer is there!

I will take your advice and focus on the lower body & footwork......that is what Bill always told me - the swing is from the ankles and knees NOT the upper body.



View Post97speedster, on 19 July 2018 - 04:50 AM, said:

View PostDonRSD, on 15 July 2018 - 04:51 PM, said:

FINALLY stopped the duck hooks!!
My issue now is I can't feel the weight going backwards, thus get a few fat shots per round.

I started feeling the weight into my right glute/thigh and going forward became effortless - thus the hands didnt go ahead of the body.
On the backswing is the left shoulder supposed to go "around" the body" or just pull straight back?
I am having some issue with keeping the right wrist flat, as I tend to keep the entire right arm straight far too long on the backswing.....and dont let the right elbow fold.

Anyway to get a little more distance out of this swing?

Getting more distance with the Ballard swing will come from a better/shallower angle of attack while compressing the ball more at impact. I think there is a fine line between shaft lean being ideal and too much..... too much can lead to your miss being a hook. When I'm not feeling like I am compressing the ball and maximizing my distance then I practice what Ballard teaches while using the DST Compressor 8-iron, it's the best dynamic way I have found to compression: http://shop.dstgolf....pressor-8-iron/

In regards to the shoulder plane, the shoulders should work pretty vertical and not around.... Ballard likes his students to feel like the right shoulder works UP (not around) on the backswing while you coil into the right leg,... Hal Sutton always did this real well: https://www.youtube....h?v=kqTVlLar_JM


Gotcha! Awesome advice.
When I dont worry about the backswing / arms and just focus on keeping my right wrist flat = short backswing and the club is "light" as Rocco says. At that pint everything falls into place.
Seems with the PW/9 iron I can hit the positions consistently. When I get up to the 4iron and woods - then the position becomes harder. I think I am trying to kill the ball instead of just getting int my positions. Its all inside of my head at this point (I think lol)

Edited by DonRSD, 20 July 2018 - 08:28 AM.

Driver: Ping G400 Max
3 Wood: Ping G400
Irons: TM P790 (2-AW)
Wedges: Vokey 54 & 60
Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2 (2018)

29

#90 torbill

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 08:06 PM

Don, sorry about the video.  There were about four Ballard instructional videos that somebody put up on YouTube in the last couple of weeks.  I suppose that the content owner (Ballard?) had them taken down due to copyright considerations.  These videos had a lot to say.  I would pay for them if I knew where to find them. What I wanted you to see was the swing of his assistant, who was an extreme example of passive arms and hands on the takeaway.

Your questions:

Width of stance:  Ballard teaches inside heels = outside shoulder width, for all “normal, full shots”.  This includes the wedges.  So it is what I do.  I think that having this right is very important to your progress, so I suggest that you get out a yardstick and have somebody measure your shoulder width, and put the yardstick on the ground and get a sense of what this means.  This spacing is the middle ground between too wide (hard to get a complete weight transfer) and too narrow (too much twisting/rotation).  We have 12” tile in a room, so I use it as a reference to practice my width.

Ball location:  I position the club face behind the ball with the club shaft not pressed toward or away from the target, and I hold it in this position with my trailing hand, and from here I position my body with respect to the club shaft such that the butt of the club is pointing at my belly button, my lead elbow is on my chest, my spine is not tipped toward or away from the target, and my knees, hips, waist, shoulders are all basically square to the target.  I do this for all clubs. The ball is wherever it is at the end of this operation, and I pay no further attention. This process ensures that when I am at address everything is “centered” with respect to the core of my body; Ballard wants everything centered - “no angles”.

If I seem to be anal about the setup it is because I am anal about the setup.  I figure that, as a pre-swing thing, it is a freebee and if I don't get it right everything else is going to be a series of compensations. For me the essence of this method is proper setup, proper footwork, and keeping my lead elbow down/connected.

Edited by torbill, 20 July 2018 - 08:10 PM.


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