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Jimmy Ballard - The Connected Golf Swing

Jimmy Ballard Connection

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#481 97speedster

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 05:30 PM

View Postgsea33, on 09 February 2019 - 12:14 PM, said:


Does that glove go on the right wrist or left wrist? It looks like it is for the left hand??

WITB in 2018
Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
Putter:
TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X

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#482 Ayersjj

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 09:15 PM

View Postflatnstuck, on 09 February 2019 - 09:55 AM, said:

Iím curious what JB would think of Hal Suttonís current swing. It seems more centered than Ballardís model, much like 97 Speedsterís, while incorporating a lot of the original
Ballard fundamentals.
He liked his swing bigly. Not much has changed from this 83í artical. Golf channel 360 Hal Sutton cinfirms

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#483 Ayersjj

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 09:18 PM

View Post97speedster, on 07 February 2019 - 05:21 AM, said:

View Postgsea33, on 06 February 2019 - 12:04 PM, said:

Calvin Peete straightest golfer in tour history.  Short left arm.

At age 12, he fell from a cherry tree near his grandmotherís house in Haiti, Missouri, breaking his left elbow in three places.  It was set badly and fused permanently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbnIjybQ8gw

And David Leadbetters A swing is nothing more than a JB rip-off

JB loves Calvin Peete's action, I've talked to him many times about Calvin. He was the ultimate driver of the golf ball; lead the PGA Tour in driving accuracy for 10 straight years which is unheard of! JB says that his withered left arm from his injury automatically made him play with half a left arm which permanently made him stay connected.... the guy was a machine!

Regarding David Bedwetter :) .... you got that right, but his version is an extreme two planed cluster f#ck; he changes his swing philosophy more than most people change their under wear. Ballard got it right the first time and has not changes his for as long as I've known him. David is like Scotty Cameron, he copies everybody else then has the balls to stamp his name on it and sell it for more money. DL has ended more careers than all the other supposed top instructors combined, that's just the truth!

I'm seeing JB today at 11am for my monthly lesson for a few hours and I can't wait!
He likes DJ Morris in this article :)

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#484 Ayersjj

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 09:19 PM

DJ Morris article

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#485 Ayersjj

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 09:21 PM

The true triangle test article for u boyz.
Enjoy!

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#486 97speedster

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 09:35 PM

View PostAyersjj, on 09 February 2019 - 09:19 PM, said:

DJ Morris article

Wow, that’s a blast from the past!
WITB in 2018
Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
Putter:
TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X

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#487 gsea33

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 09:50 PM

View Post97speedster, on 09 February 2019 - 05:30 PM, said:

View Postgsea33, on 09 February 2019 - 12:14 PM, said:


Does that glove go on the right wrist or left wrist? It looks like it is for the left hand??

No it's for the right wrist.  All ready have the bowling golf but thought this would be a nice piece of memorabilia.

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#488 Ayersjj

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 10:03 PM

View Postflatnstuck, on 09 February 2019 - 09:55 AM, said:

Iím curious what JB would think of Hal Suttonís current swing. It seems more centered than Ballardís model, much like 97 Speedsterís, while incorporating a lot of the original
Ballard fundamentals.

Jimmy would love this about Sutton
https://www.golfchan...tion-full-swing

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#489 flatnstuck

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 03:07 AM

View PostAyersjj, on 09 February 2019 - 10:03 PM, said:

View Postflatnstuck, on 09 February 2019 - 09:55 AM, said:

Iím curious what JB would think of Hal Suttonís current swing. It seems more centered than Ballardís model, much like 97 Speedsterís, while incorporating a lot of the original
Ballard fundamentals.

Jimmy would love this about Sutton
https://www.golfchan...tion-full-swing

I see a lot of JB still in Sutton, but video of Hal as a young pro shows him with a great deal more lateral movement than today.

It always seemed to me that Jimmyís two joint theory with regard to the pivot centered on the need to have the hip joint over the knee and ankle to truly turn on that pivot point. And with that a given that the wide stance necessitated the large lateral shift that became a hallmark of JBís teachings in his heyday.

I was just curious as to his thoughts on that. HS stance is certainly narrower and his motion more centered these days. Granted, heís almost assuredly less flexible with age, girth and joint replacements than he was as a young man.

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#490 97speedster

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 05:50 AM

View Postgsea33, on 09 February 2019 - 09:50 PM, said:


No it's for the right wrist.  All ready have the bowling golf but thought this would be a nice piece of memorabilia.

Okay, that is the same one then that Calvin Peete used to practice with on his right hand.... I heard of it, but I never have actually seen one until you posted that picture. How many years ago did you get that?

WITB in 2018
Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
Putter:
TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X

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#491 97speedster

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 06:03 AM

View PostAyersjj, on 09 February 2019 - 10:03 PM, said:

Jimmy would love this about Sutton
https://www.golfchan...tion-full-swing

Hal always looks to me like his arms weigh 100 pounds each when he swings; they seem so in control and never out of control or out running his body.... pure dog wagging the tail, not tail wagging the dog. I also love how level Hal is, especially in his hips which you really notice if you watch his belt throughout his swing.

Hal has always been one of my favorite swings on tour and probably one of the best of all time in controlling his distances with his irons. Davis Love III once said "if you are 167 yards away and your life depended on hitting the ball that distance, then hand the club to Hal Sutton".

Last week me and 7 of my buddies went up to TPC Sawgrass to play the stadium course as guests of Web Simpson, I had never played there before.... on the 18th hole I had 6 iron in to the back left pin and striped one, in mid air I said out loud to my buddies, "be the right club TODAY"...... I ended up hitting the pin dead square and had a 10 footer for birdie. I told Jimmy that story the other day and he said that Hal told him he wished he had a dollar for every time someone says that to him since that day LOL.

Edited by 97speedster, 10 February 2019 - 06:04 AM.

WITB in 2018
Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
Putter:
TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X

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#492 97speedster

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 06:31 AM

View PostDonRSD, on 10 February 2019 - 02:54 PM, said:

I see a lot of JB still in Sutton, but video of Hal as a young pro shows him with a great deal more lateral movement than today.

It always seemed to me that Jimmy's two joint theory with regard to the pivot centered on the need to have the hip joint over the knee and ankle to truly turn on that pivot point. And with that a given that the wide stance necessitated the large lateral shift that became a hallmark of JB's teachings in his heyday.

I was just curious as to his thoughts on that. HS stance is certainly narrower and his motion more centered these days. Granted, he's almost assuredly less flexible with age, girth and joint replacements than he was as a young man.

Jimmy hates the word "TURN", he says it is the most damaging word in golf. He uses the word COIL in his teaching. Just because Hal is doing things differently now, doesn't mean he is right now and Jimmy was wrong before. Hal left Jimmy after they had a falling out and now spends quite a bit of teaching himself in Louisiana, but when Hal does play golf these days on the Champion Tour, he plays respectfully, but hardly ever great. Some of these Tour players are pig headed and bite off their noses to spite their face.... I know Jimmy would want Hals right foot more square or even turned in towards the target a bit, in my opinion, that might cause Hal to have more of a two way miss.

The only thing that I have ever noticed in all the years that I have been working with Ballard that he has changed in his teaching is that now he wants the right foot turned in towards the target versus being 90 degrees (square). Two reasons for this change, 1.) it makes it much harder to sway and get outside the right foot going back. 2.) it make it much hard for the club to work around the body going back. For me, I feel like I can make a much more aggressive weight sh!ft when my right foot is turned in.

I have a set-up station indoors where wood is cut to approximately a 20 inch stance width (my shoulders are 21 inches wide) and both feet angled at 30 degrees left. I use this station when I practice with my medicine ball and where I make swings with a 7 iron.... my stance is barely shy of full shoulder width with a 7 iron, but with a driver it is an inch or two wider than my shoulder width. Exaggerating the angle of my right foot turned in a bit helps to brace my right side aggressively, but when I am actually on the course, my right foot is only turned in about 15 degrees, but it's not something I think about, it's just more something I notice. This indoor drill really helps me groove my stance and ball position, plus it helps me feel my heels are lined up parallel left of my target, not my toes.

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  • 1c.jpg

Edited by 97speedster, 11 February 2019 - 06:01 AM.

WITB in 2018
Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
Putter:
TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X

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#493 DonRSD

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 02:54 PM

View Post97speedster, on 10 February 2019 - 06:31 AM, said:

View Postflatnstuck, on 10 February 2019 - 03:07 AM, said:

I see a lot of JB still in Sutton, but video of Hal as a young pro shows him with a great deal more lateral movement than today. It always seemed to me that Jimmy's two joint theory with regard to the pivot centered on the need to have the hip joint over the knee and ankle to truly turn on that pivot point. And with that a given that the wide stance necessitated the large lateral shift that became a hallmark of JB's teachings in his heyday. I was just curious as to his thoughts on that. HS stance is certainly narrower and his motion more centered these days. Granted, he's almost assuredly less flexible with age, girth and joint replacements than he was as a young man.
Jimmy hates the word "TURN", he says it is the most damaging word in golf. He uses the word COIL in his teaching. Just because Hal is doing things differently now, doesn't mean he is right now and Jimmy was wrong before. Hal left Jimmy after they had a falling out and now spends quite a bit of teaching himself in Louisiana, but when Hal does play golf these days on the Champion Tour, he plays respectfully, but hardly ever great. Some of these Tour players are pig headed and bite off their noses to spite their face.... I know Jimmy would want Hals right foot more square or even turned in towards the target a bit, in my opinion, that might cause Hal to have more of a two way miss. The only thing that I have ever noticed in all the years that I have been working with Ballard that he has changed in his teaching is that now he wants the right foot turned in towards the target versus being 90 degrees (square). Two reasons for this change, 1.) it makes it much harder to sway and get outside the right foot going back. 2.) it make it much hard for the club to work around the body going back. For me, I feel like I can make a much more aggressive weight sh!ft when my right foot is turned in. I have a set-up station indoors where wood is cut to approximately a 20 inch stance width (my shoulders are 21 inches wide) and both feet angled at 30 degrees left. I use this station when I practice with my medicine ball and where I make swings with a 7 iron.... my stance is barely shy of full shoulder width with a 7 iron, but with a driver it is an inch or two wider than my shoulder width. Exaggerating the angle of my right foot turned in a bit helps to brace my right side aggressively, but when I am actually on the course, my right foot is only turned in about 15 degrees, but it's not something I think about, it's just more something I notice. This indoor drill really helps me groove my stance and ball position, plus it helps me feel my heels are lined up parallel left of my target, not my toes.

Shoulders 21 inches to the outside of your shoulders with a line drawn to the floor or 21 inches from your armpit area with a line drawn to the floor?

How many inches inside of your left heel do you play your shots? I seem to vary where I have the ball by it being "somewhere by the front heel"(?)

Sometimes getting too technical is a killer. I try to "stand" in my set and kneel into the ball with my booty under me....never works. When I lean into the ball from my hips (like your DTL YouTube video), better things happen.
I have a HUGE issue with swinging too hard and can't get it out of my head......swing easy = good shots.

What kind of grip do you use? I am trying to "feel" my right hand coming into impact but am having a hard time leaving the face open or hooking it.

How far do you hit each club? Asking as a reference compared to my distances.

On another note.....heading up to Honda in a few weeks if you want to meet up for Sunday's round :):)

Edited by DonRSD, 10 February 2019 - 02:55 PM.

Driver: Ping G400 Max
3 Wood: Ping G400
Hybrid: Titleist 818 H1
Iron: TaylorMade P790
Wedge: Vokey
Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2 (2018)

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#494 flatnstuck

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 03:36 PM

View Post97speedster, on 10 February 2019 - 06:31 AM, said:

View Postflatnstuck, on 10 February 2019 - 03:07 AM, said:

I see a lot of JB still in Sutton, but video of Hal as a young pro shows him with a great deal more lateral movement than today.

It always seemed to me that Jimmy's two joint theory with regard to the pivot centered on the need to have the hip joint over the knee and ankle to truly turn on that pivot point. And with that a given that the wide stance necessitated the large lateral shift that became a hallmark of JB's teachings in his heyday.

I was just curious as to his thoughts on that. HS stance is certainly narrower and his motion more centered these days. Granted, he's almost assuredly less flexible with age, girth and joint replacements than he was as a young man.

Jimmy hates the word "TURN", he says it is the most damaging word in golf. He uses the word COIL in his teaching. Just because Hal is doing things differently now, doesn't mean he is right now and Jimmy was wrong before. Hal left Jimmy after they had a falling out and now spends quite a bit of teaching himself in Louisiana, but when Hal does play golf these days on the Champion Tour, he plays respectfully, but hardly ever great. Some of these Tour players are pig headed and bite off their noses to spite their face.... I know Jimmy would want Hals right foot more square or even turned in towards the target a bit, in my opinion, that might cause Hal to have more of a two way miss.

The only thing that I have ever noticed in all the years that I have been working with Ballard that he has changed in his teaching is that now he wants the right foot turned in towards the target versus being 90 degrees (square). Two reasons for this change, 1.) it makes it much harder to sway and get outside the right foot going back. 2.) it make it much hard for the club to work around the body going back. For me, I feel like I can make a much more aggressive weight sh!ft when my right foot is turned in.

I have a set-up station indoors where wood is cut to approximately a 20 inch stance width (my shoulders are 21 inches wide) and both feet angled at 30 degrees left. I use this station when I practice with my medicine ball and where I make swings with a 7 iron.... my stance is barely shy of full shoulder width with a 7 iron, but with a driver it is an inch or two wider than my shoulder width. Exaggerating the angle of my right foot turned in a bit helps to brace my right side aggressively, but when I am actually on the course, my right foot is only turned in about 15 degrees, but it's not something I think about, it's just more something I notice. This indoor drill really helps me groove my stance and ball position, plus it helps me feel my heels are lined up parallel left of my target, not my toes.

Great reply. Thanks. I just noticed that you seemed more centered a la Hal and was curious.

I always followed him or Nick Price or Kite when I went to a tour event. Whether they were in contention or not. They may not have been scoring that day, but they were usually knocking the pins down.

With regard to Sutton and the Champions tour I think he had double hip replacement, and honestly was more interested in non golf activities than competitive sport.

Anyway, toying with Ballardís ideas. I really like the downswing feels, but am not in love with the lateral coil back that I get with a shoulder width stance. Then again, as a kid I had a very Stenson-esque motion where I felt like I bumped right with my right shoulder about two inches and then just turned back and through from there.

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#495 97speedster

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 06:29 PM

View PostDonRSD, on 10 February 2019 - 02:54 PM, said:

Shoulders 21 inches to the outside of your shoulders with a line drawn to the floor or 21 inches from your armpit area with a line drawn to the floor?

How many inches inside of your left heel do you play your shots? I seem to vary where I have the ball by it being "somewhere by the front heel"(?)

Sometimes getting too technical is a killer. I try to "stand" in my set and kneel into the ball with my booty under me....never works. When I lean into the ball from my hips (like your DTL YouTube video), better things happen.
I have a HUGE issue with swinging too hard and can't get it out of my head......swing easy = good shots.

What kind of grip do you use? I am trying to "feel" my right hand coming into impact but am having a hard time leaving the face open or hooking it.

How far do you hit each club? Asking as a reference compared to my distances.

On another note.....heading up to Honda in a few weeks if you want to meet up for Sunday's round :) :)

Outside point of my shoulders is 21". With both feet turned in 30 degrees, the ball feels more back than if they were square.... my safe area is the lines that you see on the mat, I vary from off my left heel to 2 inches inside, I try not to get the ball further back than that. Bunker shots from green side are always off my left heel. Right now on chip shots and pitches, I am 13" apart, on full wedges I am 17" apart and 7 iron is 20" apart from heel to heel.... my ball position is pretty constantly 2" on all shots except bunker shots where it is always off the left heel.

I try to grip it a lot like Hogan, except maybe just a little stronger in my right hand. I'll take a picture of my grip when I have time and post it.

My 9 iron is 150 yards and my 5 iron in 200 yards. A good drive goes 285 yards. I don't play Sundays and I am not sure if that Sunday I am in Aspen or if it is the Sunday before, if it is the 24th then I am still in Aspen. Sundays is the day for my wife, but I am around the other 6 days of the week usually :).

Edited by 97speedster, 10 February 2019 - 06:31 PM.

WITB in 2018
Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
Putter:
TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X

15

#496 BrianMcG

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 06:34 PM

View Post97speedster, on 10 February 2019 - 06:31 AM, said:

View Postflatnstuck, on 10 February 2019 - 03:07 AM, said:

I see a lot of JB still in Sutton, but video of Hal as a young pro shows him with a great deal more lateral movement than today.

It always seemed to me that Jimmy's two joint theory with regard to the pivot centered on the need to have the hip joint over the knee and ankle to truly turn on that pivot point. And with that a given that the wide stance necessitated the large lateral shift that became a hallmark of JB's teachings in his heyday.

I was just curious as to his thoughts on that. HS stance is certainly narrower and his motion more centered these days. Granted, he's almost assuredly less flexible with age, girth and joint replacements than he was as a young man.

Jimmy hates the word "TURN", he says it is the most damaging word in golf. He uses the word COIL in his teaching. Just because Hal is doing things differently now, doesn't mean he is right now and Jimmy was wrong before. Hal left Jimmy after they had a falling out and now spends quite a bit of teaching himself in Louisiana, but when Hal does play golf these days on the Champion Tour, he plays respectfully, but hardly ever great. Some of these Tour players are pig headed and bite off their noses to spite their face.... I know Jimmy would want Hals right foot more square or even turned in towards the target a bit, in my opinion, that might cause Hal to have more of a two way miss.

The only thing that I have ever noticed in all the years that I have been working with Ballard that he has changed in his teaching is that now he wants the right foot turned in towards the target versus being 90 degrees (square). Two reasons for this change, 1.) it makes it much harder to sway and get outside the right foot going back. 2.) it make it much hard for the club to work around the body going back. For me, I feel like I can make a much more aggressive weight sh!ft when my right foot is turned in.

I have a set-up station indoors where wood is cut to approximately a 20 inch stance width (my shoulders are 21 inches wide) and both feet angled at 30 degrees left. I use this station when I practice with my medicine ball and where I make swings with a 7 iron.... my stance is barely shy of full shoulder width with a 7 iron, but with a driver it is an inch or two wider than my shoulder width. Exaggerating the angle of my right foot turned in a bit helps to brace my right side aggressively, but when I am actually on the course, my right foot is only turned in about 15 degrees, but it's not something I think about, it's just more something I notice. This indoor drill really helps me groove my stance and ball position, plus it helps me feel my heels are lined up parallel left of my target, not my toes.


Love the pics of your station. I used to hit pitch shots with my right foot turned in as a kind of drill to feel the coil better in my right leg. I'll have to try it with full shots.

Edited by BrianMcG, 10 February 2019 - 10:09 PM.

Walter: Tell me Bobby, why do you play this game?
Bobby: I play because I love it.
Walter: Well I play for the money. I have to win. That is why every time we face each other I will always beat you.

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#497 torbill

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 08:33 AM

View Postgsea33, on 06 February 2019 - 12:04 PM, said:

Calvin Peete straightest golfer in tour history.  Short left arm.

At age 12, he fell from a cherry tree near his grandmother’s house in Haiti, Missouri, breaking his left elbow in three places.  It was set badly and fused permanently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbnIjybQ8gw

And David Leadbetters A swing is nothing more than a JB rip-off

I love watching this video.  It seems to me that Peete’s right elbow is a textbook case of what Ballard wants.  I wonder if Peete ever worked with Ballard, or if his swing just happened to come out like what Ballard teaches.

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#498 dodger

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 01:45 PM

View Post97speedster, on 10 February 2019 - 06:31 AM, said:

View PostDonRSD, on 10 February 2019 - 02:54 PM, said:

I see a lot of JB still in Sutton, but video of Hal as a young pro shows him with a great deal more lateral movement than today.

It always seemed to me that Jimmy's two joint theory with regard to the pivot centered on the need to have the hip joint over the knee and ankle to truly turn on that pivot point. And with that a given that the wide stance necessitated the large lateral shift that became a hallmark of JB's teachings in his heyday.

I was just curious as to his thoughts on that. HS stance is certainly narrower and his motion more centered these days. Granted, he's almost assuredly less flexible with age, girth and joint replacements than he was as a young man.

Jimmy hates the word "TURN", he says it is the most damaging word in golf. He uses the word COIL in his teaching. Just because Hal is doing things differently now, doesn't mean he is right now and Jimmy was wrong before. Hal left Jimmy after they had a falling out and now spends quite a bit of teaching himself in Louisiana, but when Hal does play golf these days on the Champion Tour, he plays respectfully, but hardly ever great. Some of these Tour players are pig headed and bite off their noses to spite their face.... I know Jimmy would want Hals right foot more square or even turned in towards the target a bit, in my opinion, that might cause Hal to have more of a two way miss.

The only thing that I have ever noticed in all the years that I have been working with Ballard that he has changed in his teaching is that now he wants the right foot turned in towards the target versus being 90 degrees (square). Two reasons for this change, 1.) it makes it much harder to sway and get outside the right foot going back. 2.) it make it much hard for the club to work around the body going back. For me, I feel like I can make a much more aggressive weight sh!ft when my right foot is turned in.

I have a set-up station indoors where wood is cut to approximately a 20 inch stance width (my shoulders are 21 inches wide) and both feet angled at 30 degrees left. I use this station when I practice with my medicine ball and where I make swings with a 7 iron.... my stance is barely shy of full shoulder width with a 7 iron, but with a driver it is an inch or two wider than my shoulder width. Exaggerating the angle of my right foot turned in a bit helps to brace my right side aggressively, but when I am actually on the course, my right foot is only turned in about 15 degrees, but it's not something I think about, it's just more something I notice. This indoor drill really helps me groove my stance and ball position, plus it helps me feel my heels are lined up parallel left of my target, not my toes.
  Curious why Sutton squaring up his right foot would cause a two-way miss? Sutton always has tended towards a shut face at the top of the swing, I saw him in person the year he won the PGA in the early 80's at Riviera and he was really straight off the tee with a low ball flight favoring a left to right movement. Would JB change the clubface at the top to a more open position with a right foot stance alteration or would he typically leave that alone?

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#499 naval2006

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 04:58 PM

I find Hal Sutton’s keep the club always in front of your chest throughout the swing one of the swing fundamentals now and then. Now for some of us who tend to go too armsy it’s something we break early in the swing. Is there any drill that you use to work on this aspect of the swing apart from Jimmy’s club butt in navel swing drill? Especially some stuff you can do when hitting balls.

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#500 97speedster

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 06:58 PM

View Posttorbill, on 11 February 2019 - 08:33 AM, said:


I love watching this video.  It seems to me that Peete’s right elbow is a textbook case of what Ballard wants.  I wonder if Peete ever worked with Ballard, or if his swing just happened to come out like what Ballard teaches.

Calvin never worked with Ballard, he just naturally swings connected and with half a left arm due to falling out of a tree as a kid and having his arm locked in that position.

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Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
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3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
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Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
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#501 97speedster

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 07:01 PM

View Postdodger, on 11 February 2019 - 01:45 PM, said:

Curious why Sutton squaring up his right foot would cause a two-way miss? Sutton always has tended towards a shut face at the top of the swing, I saw him in person the year he won the PGA in the early 80's at Riviera and he was really straight off the tee with a low ball flight favoring a left to right movement. Would JB change the clubface at the top to a more open position with a right foot stance alteration or would he typically leave that alone?

I don't think he would mess with his club face. Hal is a great ball striker, but the two way miss would come from swinging more in a barrel than he used to. Two way miss might be an extreme statement, he still has a great swing, but he doesn't play as well as he should with his talent.
WITB in 2018
Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
Putter:
TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X

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#502 97speedster

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 07:03 PM

View Postnaval2006, on 11 February 2019 - 04:58 PM, said:

I find Hal Sutton’s keep the club always in front of your chest throughout the swing one of the swing fundamentals now and then. Now for some of us who tend to go too armsy it’s something we break early in the swing. Is there any drill that you use to work on this aspect of the swing apart from Jimmy’s club butt in navel swing drill? Especially some stuff you can do when hitting balls.

I would say hit balls by hinging the club up from the elbows to the center of the head or over the right shoulder and then coil behind the ball and hit it.... kind of like Hal talks about in the above video, but hitting balls while doing it.
WITB in 2018
Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
Putter:
TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X

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#503 Rayevenpar72

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 08:46 PM

Having met Jimmy many times and spent one on one time on his lesson tee I can say that he teaches a great method. He told me once over dinner that "I look for perhaps
8 things in my method and even if the golfer did a few of these things, they would be a better striker of the ball!"  So just learning his method will help you better understand
the swing from a macro level and you can add or subtract what dynamically suits you.

So its not "all or nothing "

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#504 97speedster

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 09:18 PM

Thatís the difference between him and others who teach his method... he understands that more than most and thatís why he can teach a variety of different swing styles and apply the important things like connection without adding things that arenít as important as the main denominators. I try to be the best version of myself, not anybody else.... Jimmy helps me do that!

Look at Hal Sutton and Curtis Strange, both worked with JB for many years, but their swings looked much different as a whole.

Edited by 97speedster, 11 February 2019 - 10:18 PM.

WITB in 2018
Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
Putter:
TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X

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#505 Rayevenpar72

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 11:49 PM

BTW . If you want to see an close, modern example of Jimmy Ballard's method look no further than Henrik Stenson ! :)
It is no secret that Jimmy taught in Sweden way back when and he influenced many Swedish teaching golf professionals.
Hmmmm?


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#506 97speedster

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 06:19 AM

View PostRayevenpar72, on 11 February 2019 - 11:49 PM, said:

BTW . If you want to see an close, modern example of Jimmy Ballard's method look no further than Henrik Stenson ! :)
It is no secret that Jimmy taught in Sweden way back when and he influenced many Swedish teaching golf professionals.
Hmmmm?

I've talked to Jimmy many times about the Swedes and yes he did go over in 1990 when Annika and Henrik where very young to train the Swedish Federation golf coaches and Annika has even personally thanked him and given him a lot of credit for her success. Both Henrik and Annika's swings have many commonalities..... they both release their eyes to the target very soon and both finish level to the ground, not perpendicular to their spine tilt. Both have swings that will allow their bodies to last a long time swinging a club with very little strain put on their backs.

Another swing that Jimmy indirectly helped create was Bernard Langer's, his teacher used to come to Jimmy for help and then would share the info with Bernard.... he would even tell Jimmy that Bernard's English wasn't that good, and Jimmy would give him advice to share with Bernard about his swing.

Great video, fast forward the video to minute 2:17 : https://www.golfchan...son-gym-routine

Attached Thumbnails

  • Stenson-Sorenstam-1.jpeg
  • Stenson-Sorenstam-3 (1).jpeg

Edited by 97speedster, 12 February 2019 - 06:35 AM.

WITB in 2018
Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
Putter:
TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X

26

#507 dodger

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:33 AM

View Post97speedster, on 12 February 2019 - 06:19 AM, said:

View PostRayevenpar72, on 11 February 2019 - 11:49 PM, said:

BTW . If you want to see an close, modern example of Jimmy Ballard's method look no further than Henrik Stenson ! :)
It is no secret that Jimmy taught in Sweden way back when and he influenced many Swedish teaching golf professionals.
Hmmmm?

I've talked to Jimmy many times about the Swedes and yes he did go over in 1990 when Annika and Henrik where very young to train the Swedish Federation golf coaches and Annika has even personally thanked him and given him a lot of credit for her success. Both Henrik and Annika's swings have many commonalities..... they both release their eyes to the target very soon and both finish level to the ground, not perpendicular to their spine tilt. Both have swings that will allow their bodies to last a long time swinging a club with very little strain put on their backs.

Another swing that Jimmy indirectly helped create was Bernard Langer's, his teacher used to come to Jimmy for help and then would share the info with Bernard.... he would even tell Jimmy that Bernard's English wasn't that good, and Jimmy would give him advice to share with Bernard about his swing.

Great video, fast forward the video to minute 2:17 : https://www.golfchan...son-gym-routine
The most unfair criticism of Ballard is that his methods take away power. In the 70's and 80's, when he taught a lot on tour, the club and ball forced high speed players to take away some speed for control. Leadbetter's work with Faldo is an example. However, Ballard taught three of the longest hitters in golf at the time, Jim Dent, Dewitt Weaver and J.C. Snead. All of them moved it off the tee and none of them got shorter working with Ballard. Dent and Weaver have gotten into teaching, both still teach Ballard's methods to an extent. The euro I have often wondered about working with Ballard is Ian Woosnam. His swing shows many Ballard movements, elbows down, club always in front, hands under shaft at the top of the swing and a full release into a balanced left side. Woosnam was really long as well. Since working on the items at the top of this thread posted by you, I have gained 25 yards off the tee, reduced the duck hook plaguing my game and my irons are much more consistent distance wise. Thanks for the time you spend spreading the word Speedster.

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#508 flatnstuck

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 01:57 PM

So I guess my question is why does the stance have to be that wide?  The lateral motion back and forth is to get each respective hip joint over the knee and ankle so that you can turn and that joint becomes the pivot point of that portion of the swing instead of the spine. Thatís pretty brilliant actually. It just seems that youíre introducing a lot of room for error by adding 4-6 inches of lateral motion when you donít really have to.

I understand coiling back to to provide power to the blow, but the backhanded slap that JB so often uses to illustrate the motion doesnít have a two + foot extension with a head on it trying to hit a small ball in the middle of the club face.

Edited by flatnstuck, 12 February 2019 - 01:59 PM.


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#509 Ayersjj

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 05:55 PM

View Postflatnstuck, on 12 February 2019 - 01:57 PM, said:

So I guess my question is why does the stance have to be that wide?  The lateral motion back and forth is to get each respective hip joint over the knee and ankle so that you can turn and that joint becomes the pivot point of that portion of the swing instead of the spine. Thatís pretty brilliant actually. It just seems that youíre introducing a lot of room for error by adding 4-6 inches of lateral motion when you donít really have to.

I understand coiling back to to provide power to the blow, but the backhanded slap that JB so often uses to illustrate the motion doesnít have a two + foot extension with a head on it trying to hit a small ball in the middle of the club face.
I listened to J colbert talk about getting ďbehindĒ the shaft. I think ur question brings up the lesser if two evils possible compromise. Going over the wall (right leg) loading the backswing is not what JB teaches. But if u were to move that cart u betterget behind and load yhen fire or its a slap. I was an assistant pro at Valhalla Golf Club back in 80s and a member Bill Mussleman gave me an image that stuck with me. He played with Irwin at Colorado. He won numerous Kentucky Opens so I listened closely.

He said he tries to open the door and slam it shut with his right arm and side. You would not stand right next to door rather a running start and slam the hell out of it. If we had a contest who could slam it harder the guy that set into his right foot got behind the door for leverage wins.

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29

#510 Rayevenpar72

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 06:10 PM

View Postdodger, on 12 February 2019 - 10:33 AM, said:

View Post97speedster, on 12 February 2019 - 06:19 AM, said:

View PostRayevenpar72, on 11 February 2019 - 11:49 PM, said:

BTW . If you want to see an close, modern example of Jimmy Ballard's method look no further than Henrik Stenson ! :)
It is no secret that Jimmy taught in Sweden way back when and he influenced many Swedish teaching golf professionals.
Hmmmm?

I've talked to Jimmy many times about the Swedes and yes he did go over in 1990 when Annika and Henrik where very young to train the Swedish Federation golf coaches and Annika has even personally thanked him and given him a lot of credit for her success. Both Henrik and Annika's swings have many commonalities..... they both release their eyes to the target very soon and both finish level to the ground, not perpendicular to their spine tilt. Both have swings that will allow their bodies to last a long time swinging a club with very little strain put on their backs.

Another swing that Jimmy indirectly helped create was Bernard Langer's, his teacher used to come to Jimmy for help and then would share the info with Bernard.... he would even tell Jimmy that Bernard's English wasn't that good, and Jimmy would give him advice to share with Bernard about his swing.

Great video, fast forward the video to minute 2:17 : https://www.golfchan...son-gym-routine
The most unfair criticism of Ballard is that his methods take away power. In the 70's and 80's, when he taught a lot on tour, the club and ball forced high speed players to take away some speed for control. Leadbetter's work with Faldo is an example. However, Ballard taught three of the longest hitters in golf at the time, Jim Dent, Dewitt Weaver and J.C. Snead. All of them moved it off the tee and none of them got shorter working with Ballard. Dent and Weaver have gotten into teaching, both still teach Ballard's methods to an extent. The euro I have often wondered about working with Ballard is Ian Woosnam. His swing shows many Ballard movements, elbows down, club always in front, hands under shaft at the top of the swing and a full release into a balanced left side. Woosnam was really long as well. Since working on the items at the top of this thread posted by you, I have gained 25 yards off the tee, reduced the duck hook plaguing my game and my irons are much more consistent distance wise. Thanks for the time you spend spreading the word Speedster.

Many(other swing gurus) accused Jimmy of promoting a sway yet when i discussed this with him he said "nonsense" and more or less with a "braced right knee" how can you sway !


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