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Trying to stop a backswing that's too long


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#1 jimb6golf

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 11:41 AM

For years I've struggled to shorten my backswing (re: lessons, etc.).  It can result in overswing, off balance swings, poor knee movement, inside swing plane, open club face, etc.  At times I can shorten it effectively but it only lasts for a little while and then I'm back to overswinging. Just seems like no matter what I do I just feel like I'm not swinging back far enough and here comes the overswing again.  Yet when I do shorten it I swing much better and make much better contact.  Has anyone found a good drill or visual that would permanently help reduce my overswing?


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#2 glk

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 12:00 PM

Best drill I can think of is iteach's straight trail arm - actually gets one to make a real shoulder turn - if you make a real shoulder turn vs swinging your arms and pulling your shoulder along for the ride then as long as you have a decent amount of lead side bend in the backswing it's virtually impossible to overswing - my overswing used to be due to using the arms and not the body enough in my pivot - see it lots in video's folks post here.   Another thing is to learn to keep the club head outside your hands in the takeaway and make a more vertical wrist set - something that iteach's drill also does.

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#3 alfriday

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 12:03 PM


On Learning Golf, by Percy Boomer.
“I always tell my pupils…never try to hit the ball; cultivate a sweep through the ball, and let the ball be nothing more than an incident in the swing.” (p. 160).

“If we make the ball our center of attraction, our acceleration will culminate at that point, and since our effort will be exhausted, we shall not ‘stay with the ball.’” (pp. 160-61.)

Regarding over-swinging:

“’You came down outside,’ or ‘You are overswinging.’ Those faults are mainly not mechanical at all; they arise from a false conception, and if I correct the false conception, the fault cures itself. In this case I found that the people who were overswinging were doing so because they were concentrating on the ball. When I explained that the climax of acceleration must be a yard or so past the ball, their back swings began to shorten automatically—because they felt the need for a reserve of power to enable them to go past the ball.” (p. 161)

“In short the good golfer measures the length of his back swing by the feel of his follow through. He is not consciously aware how far back he goes but he is aware of the acceleration climax point away past the ball. This point and not the ball is the true center of the swing…” (pp. 161-62).

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#4 TerpFangolfer

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 12:41 PM

exact opposite here...for years I struggled to try and lengthen my backswing - I was just a bit past J. Thorpe or A. Doyle...haha

Finally I gave up - I think once your natural tempo is built-in from years of swinging, its almost impossible.
So I just gave into the fact that it was costing me probably ~5 mph swing speed (I never got above ~98 with the Driver) and just embraced trying to be straight/consistent
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#5 tobiasjd

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 02:06 PM

I struggle with this too, all the freeging time.  Another drill to get the feel of making a good shoulder turn without the "overswinging" or what they call collapsing the triangle, is to take a fairway wood or long iron and grip way down so that the butt of the grip is anchored into your belly or chest.  Then make some shoulder turns with your arms straight out in front of you in this position.  Don't worry about wrist hinge in this drill.   You will get a feel or at least a  visualization in your mind for a true shoulder turn, while maintaining a triangle that keeps the club "out in front of you", which basically just means your hands and shoulders are staying in sync.

Once you start doing this correctly, it can feel like you are taking half the swing, but hitting it twice as far.

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#6 dwboston

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 02:26 PM

Try an earlier wrist set. You need to re-set your idea of what a "full" swing actually is.  Setting your wrists early can help prevent arm overrun in the backswing.  Check out Monte's "No Turn Cast Drill"  - it helped me to stop overswinging.
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#7 pinhigh27

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 02:28 PM

Earlier wrist set. End thread
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#8 Sabre3

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 02:32 PM

View Postpinhigh27, on 12 April 2018 - 02:28 PM, said:

Earlier wrist set. End thread
I hear this a lot but never understand how to do it. I feel like if I actively set my wrists then I end up holding them like that thru the swing. Basically holding tension in them thru the ball.

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#9 dwboston

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 02:48 PM

View PostSabre3, on 12 April 2018 - 02:32 PM, said:

View Postpinhigh27, on 12 April 2018 - 02:28 PM, said:

Earlier wrist set. End thread
I hear this a lot but never understand how to do it. I feel like if I actively set my wrists then I end up holding them like that thru the swing. Basically holding tension in them thru the ball.

Look at Monte's "no turn cast drill".  It explains it well.
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#10 CoiledUP

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 02:56 PM

Easy fix maybe, based on perception and continuation of momentum.   The back swing is short, it ends here as shown by Mickey Wright.
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#11 Petunia Sprinkle

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 05:28 PM

Setting your wrists early won’t do it. It might make it easier, but it won’t shorten your swing.

As long as you feel like you’re ‘shortening your swing’, you’ll always feel robbed of something, or at least, stifled. You have to find a different swing concept that makes a relatively shorter swing feel just right, or you’ll struggle with it.

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#12 DDG61

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 05:46 PM

For me the “over swing” really meant lifting once I had completed the full swing.  Presuming most fall into this category.

Wrist set doesn’t stop lifting when your physical limits are reached.  You need to determine for you what you can focus on to accurately monitor.  

Everyone is different, for me it was my right arm, tricep connection to ribcage.  Is it always touching no but focusing on this has kept me on plane (or flat) and allows me to restrict lifting.

Whatever you do make sure your practicing with a method to record or monitor your factual backswing.  Feel and reality very rarely equal on another.

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#13 phillyspecial

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 06:50 PM

On every single swing you make this year feel like your arm is going to parallel.

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#14 Hilts1969

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 07:04 PM

View PostSabre3, on 12 April 2018 - 02:32 PM, said:

View Postpinhigh27, on 12 April 2018 - 02:28 PM, said:

Earlier wrist set. End thread
I hear this a lot but never understand how to do it. I feel like if I actively set my wrists then I end up holding them like that thru the swing. Basically holding tension in them thru the ball.

Wrists and right hip go up. When hip stops you do don’t do anything with the arms at all. If you over swing with the arms do not swing the arms at all.

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#15 Nard_S

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 07:15 PM

Try rotating right forearm CCW on back swing.

Try take away to P2 where you keep right elbow higher than left and only allow left elbow to overtake right via arm fold. See Rory or Adam Scott. Feels strange but I had success with it because of very same problem of arm over run. I'm schooling it now.

Be mindful of lower body. Knees that roll outside of feet, hips that sway don't help right? Load against right foot, unload against left with rotation.


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#16 Smash Factors

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 07:23 PM

I was able to get my overswing under control by slowing the back-swing wayyyyyy down. When you slow down, the feeling of a completed back-swing comes sooner.

Some people don't like the idea of slowing down the back-swing though. They think it leads to other problems. That was not my experience however.
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#17 jut111

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 07:26 PM

I'd look at wrist set and shoulder plane.  Wrist set has been discussed, but I find if you turn on a flat shoulder plane, it's easy to over rotate.  If you turn properly gaining extension and left side bend, it's pretty hard to overswing.

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#18 Hilts1969

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 07:31 PM

View PostNard_S, on 12 April 2018 - 07:15 PM, said:

Try rotating right forearm CCW on back swing.

Try take away to P2 where you keep right elbow higher than left and only allow left elbow to overtake right via arm fold. See Rory or Adam Scott. Feels strange but I had success with it because of very same problem of arm over run. I'm schooling it now.

Be mindful of lower body. Knees that roll outside of feet, hips that sway don't help right? Load against right foot, unload against left with rotation.

I think everyone is different right over left made me collapse my arms towards the end of the backswing.  There are many ways to start your destination but you can end up in the same place

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#19 CaddiesFault

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 07:36 PM

My swing used to be past parallel, about 4 years ago, and now it is not. I know the feeling you have.

What got me to change for good was a lot of work in a simulator. seeing numbers that are at or above the longer swing with the short swing did wonders for my belief that I was on the correct path. It also really helped dial in that new shorter feeling with numbers to back up which swings were still generating power and what wasnt.

The technical difference was less wrist c0ck(wrist set) for me. Still generate a full turn, just dont let the wrists fold over at the top.

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#20 thug the bunny

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 09:10 PM

If you want to go with a shorter backswing, you have to have really good timing/tempo. A shorter backswing causes us to think 'swing harder' because you sense that you have less distance to accelerate the club. No. With a shorter BS tempo and timing become even more important. You have to pause at the top and 'load' the club, and then unload. Personally, I cannot hit good 9 to 3 punch shots without pausing at 9:00 and then firing. Same idea with a 10:00 full swing, driver or any other club.

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#21 eagle1997

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 10:42 PM

View Postalfriday, on 12 April 2018 - 12:03 PM, said:


On Learning Golf, by Percy Boomer.
“I always tell my pupils…never try to hit the ball; cultivate a sweep through the ball, and let the ball be nothing more than an incident in the swing.” (p. 160).

“If we make the ball our center of attraction, our acceleration will culminate at that point, and since our effort will be exhausted, we shall not ‘stay with the ball.’” (pp. 160-61.)

Regarding over-swinging:

“’You came down outside,’ or ‘You are overswinging.’ Those faults are mainly not mechanical at all; they arise from a false conception, and if I correct the false conception, the fault cures itself. In this case I found that the people who were overswinging were doing so because they were concentrating on the ball. When I explained that the climax of acceleration must be a yard or so past the ball, their back swings began to shorten automatically—because they felt the need for a reserve of power to enable them to go past the ball.” (p. 161)

“In short the good golfer measures the length of his back swing by the feel of his follow through. He is not consciously aware how far back he goes but he is aware of the acceleration climax point away past the ball. This point and not the ball is the true center of the swing…” (pp. 161-62).

Thank you for posting this. Greatly appreciated!
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#22 Shilgy

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 11:30 PM

Wasn't it Monte that said-might have been Malaska-start the downswing sooner.
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#23 MountainGoat

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 05:52 AM

In my opinion, the need to get the club back to a position where the shaft is parallel to the ground and pointing parallel to the target line and back to the target is one of golf's many false fundamentals.  Unless you have a Gumby-like spine, you'll likely twist your body out of position trying to achieve this supposedly desirable club orientation at the top.  Initiating a downswing from this position is almost impossible, because it requires a harmonious symphony of body actions as the body shifts forward and the club drops onto the impact plane.  It's far easier to avoid the complications and employ a shorter backswing.

That said, many people find it difficult to restrict their backswing.  I know of two methods.  First, turn only until your left shoulder touches your chin.  This requires you to have a rebar-straight left arm, or you'll simply defeat benefit of the shorter turn.  Second, keep your mental eye on the target.  Most people rotate their head to the rear as they get to the top of their backswing.  Doing so disorients your proprioceptive sense of target location -- once you move your head, you have no idea where the target is or where the ball is going.  Keeping your head still and your mental eye on the target is an enormous mental challenge, but one that pays huge dividends.

Edited by MountainGoat, 13 April 2018 - 05:53 AM.


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#24 Daniel Eason

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 06:33 AM

Good resource i've found recently to know what the arms/body turn.

https://www.youtube....h?v=a7oxziuP2X8

Lots of peoples versions out there, its a combination of lots of things (Tilts, arms, wrists)...
Youtube golf instruction video
only shows a ball distance or direction
of about 3 inches

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#25 parmark

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 07:36 AM

Jim

Had the same issue and pops up from time to time.   Monte has helped me on this same issue - who in his calm and simple adjectives would describe my swing in words I didn't know could exist in the same sentence together.  What you might try is video your swing, hitting half shots.  What I learned is feel isn't real.  What might feel like a half swing to 9oclock will in reality result in a nice full connected turn and solid contact.  And as someone suggested - No Turn Cast drill could be your prescription.

Good luck.  Regarding specific drills -   I'm following the Haney axiom - 100 swings a day.  You might be surprised how well this works.


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#26 JaNelson38

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 10:59 AM

One thing that has helped me restrict my backswing - which I admit can get too long - is by flaring out my front foot towards the target.  With your front foot flared out, too long of a backswing will basically knock you out of balance and make it impossible to shift your weight properly.

Edited by JaNelson38, 13 April 2018 - 11:00 AM.


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#27 jdang307

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 11:04 AM

View Postglk, on 12 April 2018 - 12:00 PM, said:

Best drill I can think of is iteach's straight trail arm - actually gets one to make a real shoulder turn - if you make a real shoulder turn vs swinging your arms and pulling your shoulder along for the ride then as long as you have a decent amount of lead side bend in the backswing it's virtually impossible to overswing - my overswing used to be due to using the arms and not the body enough in my pivot - see it lots in video's folks post here.   Another thing is to learn to keep the club head outside your hands in the takeaway and make a more vertical wrist set - something that iteach's drill also does.

http://www.golfwrx.c...-pivot-in-sync/
I developed something nasty  in my swing the past few weeks. Real nasty. Everything pushed, slice, or push sliced.

Dan's arms together drill has cured most of it. Such a great drill. And shoot, just the drill with all my power is about 70-80% of my distance straight ahead. Which is better than a hard push slice out of bounds!

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#28 jimb6golf

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 12:04 PM

Thanks for all the good advice, most of which I already do and/ or have tried.  I guess my biggest problem is that I can swing properly with swings but as soon as you put the ball in front of me I have a tendency to revert back to old and bad habits.  It can be really frustrating at times.  And compounding it all with a bad back doesn't help either.  Overall trying to save my already bad back and have my swing 'look' better too (it's pretty ugly, but functional).

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#29 juststeve

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 12:52 PM

Start forward sooner.

Steve

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#30 Saltire

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 04:01 PM

Hit loads of 3/4 punchy knockdown shots, you'll find improved contact and no distance loss. Through time you will gradually add speed and more body turn.


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