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Pepsi Duck's NEW Golf Thread...! I Finally Have Some Semblance of a Plan...


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#31 Mike Divot

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 08:12 PM

View Postb_f_c_99, on 11 April 2018 - 04:15 PM, said:

Pepsi, here is the easiest, quickest fix I can give you.  Next time you play, warm up, do whatever it is you do to get ready.  On the first hole find a nice solid tree,  take your driver, step up to the tree and head butt the tree as hard as you possibly can.

Oh sure. You make it sound so easy. What kind of tree? Elm? Maple? What kind of tree offers the most effective resistance to my forehead? Or do I need little eyebrow and nose action in there too? My posture as I prepare to strike, and then when I make actual contact, how far should my head recoil? Should I draw blood?

Can I do drills at home with shrubs in my backyard?

I need to know everything about the entire head banging experience before I can be expected to even go near a tree.

I used to bang my head on brick walls (before I found golf offers me the same kind of experience, only longer). But I can't be expected to bang my head against anything until I understand exactly why I'm banging, how hard to bang, how often, intervals between bangs, what kind of pain I can expect to experience, and the correct sound of pain I'm expected to make. Yell? Cry? Scream? I need to find a good head banging instructor who understands my particular head banging style and can explain to me not only everything I need to know about head banging, but everything I don't need to know.

Only then can my golf game progress. Meantime, you have given me some great leads for some videos and books about tree identification I can add to my already enormous collection of golf trivia which I constantly refer to and then reject.


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#32 PepsiDuck

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 08:25 PM

View PostMike Divot, on 11 April 2018 - 08:12 PM, said:

View Postb_f_c_99, on 11 April 2018 - 04:15 PM, said:

Pepsi, here is the easiest, quickest fix I can give you.  Next time you play, warm up, do whatever it is you do to get ready.  On the first hole find a nice solid tree,  take your driver, step up to the tree and head butt the tree as hard as you possibly can.

Oh sure. You make it sound so easy. What kind of tree? Elm? Maple? What kind of tree offers the most effective resistance to my forehead? Or do I need little eyebrow and nose action in there too? My posture as I prepare to strike, and then when I make actual contact, how far should my head recoil? Should I draw blood?

Can I do drills at home with shrubs in my backyard?

I need to know everything about the entire head banging experience before I can be expected to even go near a tree.

I used to bang my head on brick walls (before I found golf offers me the same kind of experience, only longer). But I can't be expected to bang my head against anything until I understand exactly why I'm banging, how hard to bang, how often, intervals between bangs, what kind of pain I can expect to experience, and the correct sound of pain I'm expected to make. Yell? Cry? Scream? I need to find a good head banging instructor who understands my particular head banging style and can explain to me not only everything I need to know about head banging, but everything I don't need to know.

Only then can my golf game progress. Meantime, you have given me some great leads for some videos and books about tree identification I can add to my already enormous collection of golf trivia which I constantly refer to and then reject.

Hahahah. Well played.
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#33 northgolf

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 09:20 PM

Try as I might, I find nothing new in this thread. Nada, zilch, zero, nil.  Just to be clear, zero isn't negative.
If I do this 11,548 more times, I will be having fun.  - Zippy the Pinhead

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#34 wmblake2000

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 09:25 PM

View PostFatReed, on 11 April 2018 - 03:29 PM, said:


Motion cannot be taught. It must be learned! The only effective way to learn, improve, or refine a motion is through having the proper objective. The motion is not the objective! Your focus on the motion is retarding you from achieving your objective. . . just as it is to millions of golfers.

I think there is a problem with this logic - the feedback of ball flight for most amateurs is pretty random and you can't tie it back to anything reliable. So I am not sure what you mean by 'proper objective.'

I know I need some objective feedback on my motion (eg, video or some other means) so I can tie ball flight back to perhaps a range of feels that all do the same thing.  But if I am not pretty clear about a) what motions are helpful and b) when I am doing them better (or worse) then I have found improving to be impossible.
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#35 PepsiDuck

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 09:32 PM

View PostPowderedToastMan, on 11 April 2018 - 10:59 AM, said:

If you're playing so bad, why are you having such a difficult time trusting reputable instructors? Jim came by and gave you gold, and you pretty much scoffed it off like you knew more than him. You don't. You need to stop thinking you understand everything. Find an instructor who you trust, then do whatever they tell you to do, even if you doubt it.

It's pretty clear your game is going in circles because you don't have a plan and change your direction at the drop of a hat. If you want to play better golf, you need to stop going at it on your own and doubting everything you hear. I can also tell your game is going in circles because you seem to think your 2014 swing and 2018 swing are much different. They aren't. That's why I told you to just focus on shortening your backswing, because you were getting good results with that in 2014. However, as shown in this thread, you demonstrate that you actually don't want help and want to figure it out on your own, which you've shown isn't working.

What's your plan here? Do you actually want to get better? You might think this post is harsh, but it's pretty obvious to any of us who've taught or played high-level golf that you are getting in your own way.

It was certainly not my intent to blow off Jim's sound advice, and if it appeared as if I did, then I apologize.  I've actually worked with Jim over Skype a couple years ago and own most of his materials.  His approach is definitely something that requires live in-person instruction, and I did not have the means to go down that path.

I think the biggest day-to-day hurdle I experienced was the daily loss of feel and coordination for the "right move."  Regardless of who the instructor was, I could go to a lesson and think I had finally figured it out by the end of the hour, and then go to the range the next day and not be able to hit the ball out of my own shadow.  Sometimes, I'd have the patience to keep trying every day of that week, but eventually I'd give up on that particular idea and move onto something else in my bag of tricks.  But usually, I wouldn't make it past a half bucket of balls before I'd reach into my bag of tricks and find something that worked for that day.

I will freely admit that I'm very ball flight focused in that I measure the soundness of my swing by the resultant ball flight.  Good shot = good swing.  Bad shot = bad swing.  You can see how after a year of this, even the most reasonable person would get frustrated enough to start jumping around with different ideas until some combination of ideas created a serviceable ball flight.  Now imagine doing this a dozen times in the same round... :dntknw:

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#36 PepsiDuck

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 09:36 PM

View Postwmblake2000, on 11 April 2018 - 09:25 PM, said:

View PostFatReed, on 11 April 2018 - 03:29 PM, said:

Motion cannot be taught. It must be learned! The only effective way to learn, improve, or refine a motion is through having the proper objective. The motion is not the objective! Your focus on the motion is retarding you from achieving your objective. . . just as it is to millions of golfers.

I think there is a problem with this logic - the feedback of ball flight for most amateurs is pretty random and you can't tie it back to anything reliable. So I am not sure what you mean by 'proper objective.'

I know I need some objective feedback on my motion (eg, video or some other means) so I can tie ball flight back to perhaps a range of feels that all do the same thing.  But if I am not pretty clear about a) what motions are helpful and b) when I am doing them better (or worse) then I have found improving to be impossible.

As I mentioned in the previous post, my objective feedback is almost always ball flight.  My process usually goes like this: (1) pick feel X from my bag of tricks, (2) hit ball with feel X, (3) if ball flight good, keep using feel X; if ball flight bad, try feel Y, (4) lather, rinse, repeat.

The thing is that feels X, Y, Z, etc. are all intended to accomplish the same exact thing...sync my arms back up with my body before impact.  So I didn't think it was unreasonable to use the "flavor of the day" method if they all sought to accomplish the same objective.
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#37 FatReed

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 09:59 PM

View Postwmblake2000, on 11 April 2018 - 09:25 PM, said:

View PostFatReed, on 11 April 2018 - 03:29 PM, said:


Motion cannot be taught. It must be learned! The only effective way to learn, improve, or refine a motion is through having the proper objective. The motion is not the objective! Your focus on the motion is retarding you from achieving your objective. . . just as it is to millions of golfers.

I think there is a problem with this logic - the feedback of ball flight for most amateurs is pretty random and you can't tie it back to anything reliable. So I am not sure what you mean by 'proper objective.'

I know I need some objective feedback on my motion (eg, video or some other means) so I can tie ball flight back to perhaps a range of feels that all do the same thing.  But if I am not pretty clear about a) what motions are helpful and b) when I am doing them better (or worse) then I have found improving to be impossible.

I’m going to continue to refer to crawling, walking and running, as it serves most useful and relevant.

Could there be anything more daunting for a non-communicative infant - who spends its first several months of life lying wherever they are left - than learning to roll over, then assume all fours, then crawl, then walk . . . ? Did anyone teach you this complex motor function (motion), which is much more than simple movement, but entails balance, etc? Again, motion isn’t the objective or motivation, rather, to move from point A to point B.

Getting to the matter of objective feedback. Does the infant jump up and run across the room? Hell no! There are numerous wobbles and tumbles in the process. Objectively, the mind/body experience the environment and consequences that sum to a learning experience. NOBODY IS TAUGHT TO WALK. Sure as hell, nobody ever dissects the motion of walking into individual components and tries to teach the motions/mechanics associated with walking. . . . nor should they with any motion.

Objectively, with the golf swing, you have numerous objective modes of feedback. Most importantly, with regard to the objective; did the ball go where intended? Yes or no, you relate the outcome to the intent.

Toward this end, if you want to apply meaningful science to the golf swing - not the sh*t minutia modern golf instruction increasingly resorts to - there is abundant evidence that motion is best learned through external cues, such as visualizing ball flight, etc. NOT internal cues,  most notably focusing on one or more body parts, positions, etc. Yet,  modern golf instruction increasingly focuses on internal cues (useless minutia).

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#38 PepsiDuck

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 10:03 PM

So I had a chance to do some slow motion work indoors with a club and this newfound scapula idea.  Of course I had to do some research on the interwebz to see what has been written on how the scapula works in the golf swing.  To be honest, there's not a whole lot out there, and what little there is seems to run counter to what I thought.  It seems that most golf instruction encourages pulling the scapula down and in towards the spine, which is the opposite of what I was trying to work on doing today.  

Backing up a little bit, I had always thought I had poor mobility in my shoulders because of the crazy position of my right elbow at P4 and the inability to externally rotate the right arm on the downswing.  That may still be the case, but I think I might have too much mobility when it comes to the scapula.  I can almost touch my elbows behind my back, so it makes sense that pulling the scapula towards my spine would consequently pull the right elbow behind my body...and then keep it there...  So in a way, I'm purposely limiting mobility by keeping my scapula forward and out, and it is definitely working.  With the indoor swings, my right elbow stops well short of getting behind my body because it physically cannot move any farther, and it is also keeping my backswing shorter.

Of course, I'm just thinking out loud...but I'm curious as to what thoughts you all had.
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#39 PepsiDuck

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 10:07 PM

View PostFatReed, on 11 April 2018 - 09:59 PM, said:

Objectively, with the golf swing, you have numerous objective modes of feedback. Most importantly, with regard to the objective; did the ball go where intended? Yes or no, you relate the outcome to the intent.

Toward this end, if you want to apply meaningful science to the golf swing - not the sh*t minutia modern golf instruction increasingly resorts to - there is abundant evidence that motion is best learned through external cues, such as visualizing ball flight, etc. NOT internal cues,  most notably focusing on one or more body parts, positions, etc. Yet,  modern golf instruction increasingly focuses on internal cues (useless minutia).

This reminds me of the Adam Young book where he discusses the different types of foci.  I'd always used an external focus growing up until 2014, when internal focus was needed to improve my swing.  Since then, my thought pattern has always been dominated by internal focus.  Any attempts to use external foci usually ended poorly, because my body simply didn't execute the swing properly without focusing on an internal cue.
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#40 Mike Divot

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 10:14 PM

View PostPepsiDuck, on 11 April 2018 - 10:03 PM, said:

Of course, I'm just thinking out loud...but I'm curious as to what thoughts you all had.

that you have passed the point of no return


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#41 FatReed

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 10:29 PM

 Mike Divot, on 11 April 2018 - 10:14 PM, said:

 PepsiDuck, on 11 April 2018 - 10:03 PM, said:

Of course, I'm just thinking out loud...but I'm curious as to what thoughts you all had.

that you have passed the point of no return

. . . Certainly very deep into the rabbit hole.

Pepsi, Iíve been there, as my history on this forum can attest.

Best of luck in your journey.

Edited by FatReed, 11 April 2018 - 10:31 PM.


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#42 oikos1

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 10:39 PM

 FatReed, on 11 April 2018 - 10:29 PM, said:

 Mike Divot, on 11 April 2018 - 10:14 PM, said:

 PepsiDuck, on 11 April 2018 - 10:03 PM, said:

Of course, I'm just thinking out loud...but I'm curious as to what thoughts you all had.

that you have passed the point of no return

. . . Certainly very deep into the rabbit hole.

Pepsi, I've been there, as my history on this forum can attest.

Best of luck in your journey.
Ok, I may have missed the story.  How the hell did you get out of the rabbit hole?

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#43 FatReed

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:05 PM

 oikos1, on 11 April 2018 - 10:39 PM, said:

 FatReed, on 11 April 2018 - 10:29 PM, said:

 Mike Divot, on 11 April 2018 - 10:14 PM, said:

 PepsiDuck, on 11 April 2018 - 10:03 PM, said:

Of course, I'm just thinking out loud...but I'm curious as to what thoughts you all had.

that you have passed the point of no return

. . . Certainly very deep into the rabbit hole.

Pepsi, I've been there, as my history on this forum can attest.

Best of luck in your journey.
Ok, I may have missed the story.  How the hell did you get out of the rabbit hole?

Does it make sense to you that this forum is a never ending exercise in futility?

I’ve shared my approach to getting out.

I realize you might need it to be more complicated. It’s not. It’s less complicated.

If my response seems brash in its brevity, it’s not my intent.



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#44 oikos1

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:52 PM

 FatReed, on 11 April 2018 - 11:05 PM, said:

 oikos1, on 11 April 2018 - 10:39 PM, said:

 FatReed, on 11 April 2018 - 10:29 PM, said:

 Mike Divot, on 11 April 2018 - 10:14 PM, said:

 PepsiDuck, on 11 April 2018 - 10:03 PM, said:

Of course, I'm just thinking out loud...but I'm curious as to what thoughts you all had.

that you have passed the point of no return

. . . Certainly very deep into the rabbit hole.

Pepsi, I've been there, as my history on this forum can attest.

Best of luck in your journey.
Ok, I may have missed the story.  How the hell did you get out of the rabbit hole?

Does it make sense to you that this forum is a never ending exercise in futility?

I’ve shared my approach to getting out.

I realize you might need it to be more complicated. It’s not. It’s less complicated.

If my response seems brash in its brevity, it’s not my intent.
Just asking.  Don't know why you came back if you claim to have gotten out.

In other news, it's all in the scapula.  Wasn't that a component of the Comeaux push slap dealio?

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#45 Golf nerd

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 05:38 AM

 PepsiDuck, on 10 April 2018 - 08:30 PM, said:

After some chance reading on WRX and a random GG Instagram post, I decided to go back to my body pivot-centric swing from 2014, when I was maintaining a 2-3 handicap and actually *playing golf*, believe it or not.  I had toyed with the idea before but always decided against it because I wanted to stay the course and fight through the suck.  I have posted a video of my 2014 swing (unfortunately no DTL view) as well as my current 2018 swing, just as points of reference.

2014: https://vimeo.com/264166743

2018: https://vimeo.com/264167017

I know my old swing definitely had some fundamental issues, but it was my homegrown swing that I had used since I was about 10 years old and had evolved during the "fire the hips and turn the body hard" era.  I had an excessive hip slide, my right hip had a tendency to pop out, and my backswing put me in a stuck position, especially with longer clubs.  However, my "improved" 2018 swing absolutely terrifies me.  I honestly have no idea where the ball will go and I feel I have absolutely no control of the club. I am afraid of turning my body because I am so focused on getting my arms out in front.  As soon as I hit my first pull of the day, I go into full-on arm flailing mode because I associate poor shots with an over-active body rotation...and I believe this only worsens the problem.


What would happen if you would turn you body more open sooner? The shaft is steep already and you would wipe across. Therefore staying closed is the only option with that steep shaft. It would be possible if the shaft was lower/flatter at this point of the swing.
Watch what Drew (Hurryupgolf) did with Dana Dahlquist. Dana releases the angles (ulnar deviation) so that the shaft is flatter here at this point in time.
Posted Image

At the top (not in this picture) your right elbow is far outside and seems to have some severe immobility (not going external). Maybe it would help to adduct more sooner in downswing.
In your old swing you drop/lower the arms behind you to flatten the swing (get in the slot). That is another way of escaping OTT.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by Golf nerd, 12 April 2018 - 05:44 AM.


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#46 Sean2

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 05:40 AM

Good luck and ooorah!
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#47 FatReed

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 08:27 AM

oikos1 wrote:

"Don't know why you came back if you claim to have gotten out."


WRX was certainly part of the rabbit hole . . . but I have some hope others might also find their way.


There is no pressure imposed on my part, only suggestion.


Edited by FatReed, 12 April 2018 - 08:28 AM.


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#48 wmblake2000

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 12:15 PM

 Jim Waldron, on 11 April 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

 wmblake2000, on 11 April 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

 Jim Waldron, on 10 April 2018 - 09:42 PM, said:

 PepsiDuck, on 10 April 2018 - 09:13 PM, said:

 PowderedToastMan, on 10 April 2018 - 08:52 PM, said:

Just shorten your backswing like your 2014 swing. You're overswinging now, lift your arms significantly and get your arms very disconnected/out of sync with your body.

You don't need some big overhaul. Just shorten your backswing and put a smooth swing on it. You seem very obsessed with perceived minute details in your swing.

This is a great point.  I *am* concerned with minute details; unfortunately, it's just my nature.  I personally feel there are too many variables in the golf swing and if you approach it piecemeal, then subsequent fixes may not be compatible.  For example, if you fix transition first and then move onto fixing the backswing, the transition fix may not work with the new backswing.  This can lead to some serious confusion and frustration; is the backswing now wrong?  Or is the transition wrong?  Or both?  That's why I feel that giving someone all 10 things that are wrong from the very start is the way to go...that way, they know how each component fix fits in with the rest of the component fixes, and they know at the end of the day, all the fixes are designed to work together rather than in isolation based on the swing in single snapshot in time.  But I may be wrong... :dntknw:

You note that I lift my arms and get disconnected on my backswing.  I agree.  No one ever really addressed my backswing...my focus was always on transition and correcting the disconnection/out of sync-ness with some transition move.

It is really, really important for someone like yourself who is heavily invested in long term improvement and a high level of ballstriking skill, to follow one of the Golden Rules of golf swing mastery: work on one Big Change at at time, in the logical sequence of the swing segments as they actually happen: Setup, Grip and Grip Pressure, Aim or the Pre-Swing fundamentals, then takeaway, then second half of backswing, ONLY THEN work on Transition, then Release to Impact, then Followthrough, then Finish.

Resist the temptation to move on to the next Swing Segment until and unless you have mastered "this" Segment.

At first this looks like the Long Way - but in reality it is the shortest way to real improvement.

Of all the questions I have in golf, this post hits the biggest one.  My question comes from this self observation.  Let's assume I have 4 things that all contribute to inconsistent ball striking - and they are all related.  The swing is always a system of interconnected motions.  

So I work on one for a while diligently.  Don't suck the shaft inside early in backswing.  Ok, I work it and work it and it improves.  Then comes the next step.  Don't overswing and lift at the top.  (the details don't matter, just the principle of learning is my question).  As I work on this, the previous thing regresses.  So ok, focus on early backswing and flow into the overswing.  Get those two to work as one feel.  

Pretty soon (let's call it 18 months!) I am now farther down the line in the swing sequence... maybe impact.  But I still have to constantly monitor all aspects of the swing or I tend to revert.  This is maddening.  What expletive is strong enough to emphasize this???  And add to this the belief that a) to play golf you should focus on the shot, not the swing and b) but when you do this, you revert.  

Can I have lobotomy for $100 Jim?

Two easy answers come to mind. One - you failed to do enough reps to make the first swing change a dominant habit. Very, very common in golf, especially since the advent of the Internet. Intellectual understanding is just a tiny first step. You have to put the reps in.  Two - you never got the Deep Insight about the swing change in the first place, so you never achieved "permission" from the watchdog who sits at the doorway of your subconscious mind Swing Map.  Whatever programs are on the Swing Map is what your body does when swinging at normal speeds. Those programs are comprised mainly of deep-seated beliefs about Power, Impact, Swing Shape, Body Mechanics and Directional control of the golf ball. They overide any merely intellectual beliefs you may have.  

For a swing change to reach dominant habit level where you can rely on it when playing, you need both steps: the Insight, followed by the reps.

I looked at this initial move in the backswing carefully yesterday. I'm going to use different language from you but I think the gist is the same.  

What I recognized is I am still "emotionally attached" to the feel of sucking the club inside.  1) it feels like the start of a powerful swing and 2) my mental image is what is sucked inside is seen as on plane.  In other words, I don't yet believe in the new feel as being valid even after all this time and objective feedback.  That's wild! This is what I have described as resistance to change.  

But... by making this resistance even clearer and more specific and conscious, I have a much better chance of settling in on a more in-plane move away from the ball because I am more committed to it where it matters.  Thanks for your input...
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#49 PepsiDuck

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 12:29 PM

 Golf nerd, on 12 April 2018 - 05:38 AM, said:

What would happen if you would turn you body more open sooner? The shaft is steep already and you would wipe across. Therefore staying closed is the only option with that steep shaft. It would be possible if the shaft was lower/flatter at this point of the swing.
Watch what Drew (Hurryupgolf) did with Dana Dahlquist. Dana releases the angles (ulnar deviation) so that the shaft is flatter here at this point in time.

At the top (not in this picture) your right elbow is far outside and seems to have some severe immobility (not going external). Maybe it would help to adduct more sooner in downswing.
In your old swing you drop/lower the arms behind you to flatten the swing (get in the slot). That is another way of escaping OTT.


Right, the 2014 vs 2018 swings are just different ways to compensate for the near vertical shaft at transition.  In 2014, I just slid the hips towards the target to drop the shaft and then turned.  In 2018, I am trying to consciously throw the arms out in front from the top into a closed body...in theory, the momentum of my arms is what turns my body.  In practice, I have not experienced lasting success...
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#50 b_f_c_99

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 03:29 PM

This guy does pretty much everything 'wrong' by todays standards.  Maybe give it a go!



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#51 Redpro

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 05:08 PM

Semper Fi Pepsi!

Adapt and overcome.

Observe . . . Orient . . . Decide . . . Act.

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#52 mshills

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 08:29 PM

 PepsiDuck, on 11 April 2018 - 10:03 PM, said:

...Of course I had to do some research on the interwebz to see what has been written on how the scapula works in the golf swing.  To be honest, there's not a whole lot out there...

I mean this with all respect, but you cannot be serious.  No one thinks about their scapula when playing golf!

You have a lot of people posting here who want you to succeed, but please understand:

You will NOT get better with internet forum advice and YouTube research.  Period!

Find a reputable instructor you can go see in person and commit to that.  Do not see anyone else.  Follow what that individual tells you to do.  Nothing else!

You are in Northern VA?  Not exactly East Bumblefart.  Find someone local, and good, and get laser focused on executing on that guidance.

This lurching from strategy to strategy and home-brew idea to home-brew idea is going to drive you away from this game.  I wish I had a fraction of your (obvious) athleticism -- you have got all the physical tools to be a good player.  Now get some guidance and some focus and go get it done!

Good luck!!
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#53 TTGolf77

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 11:19 PM

I tried to explain this in another thread and nobody listened, but your swing is such a perfect example I'm going to try again.

Everyone in this thread and 99.9% of golfers have no idea how to release through impact. All this talk about keeping things simple and having passive arms in the downswing is complete nonsense. The reason people believe this is because a passive release is better than a incorrect release. A very specific force is applied to the shaft from P6 to P7.

I illustrated this by drawing a line between the top of the glove in both you and Tiger's swing. From P6 to P7, the clubhead works down and out, obviously. What is less obvious is that the hands must move up and in during the same time period or else your hands are going to stall and your going to get less an optimal shaft lean and rate of closure through impact.

This snaps the shaft like a whip through impact and is the key to both power and clubface control. You are never going to hit the rest of the positions in the swing perfectly without understanding the release.

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#54 chiva

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 11:54 PM

I think he just needs baby blades with some DG X7's and he will be ready for Monday qualifying in no time!!!!!
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#55 PepsiDuck

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 12:05 AM

 chiva, on 12 April 2018 - 11:54 PM, said:

I think he just needs baby blades with some DG X7's and he will be ready for Monday qualifying in no time!!!!!

You really can't make this up...but I'm actually dropping off a set of Baby Blade heads to the club builder tomorrow...

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#56 PepsiDuck

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 12:26 AM

 mshills, on 12 April 2018 - 08:29 PM, said:

I mean this with all respect, but you cannot be serious.  No one thinks about their scapula when playing golf!

You have a lot of people posting here who want you to succeed, but please understand:

You will NOT get better with internet forum advice and YouTube research.  Period!

Find a reputable instructor you can go see in person and commit to that.  Do not see anyone else.  Follow what that individual tells you to do.  Nothing else!

You are in Northern VA?  Not exactly East Bumblefart.  Find someone local, and good, and get laser focused on executing on that guidance.

This lurching from strategy to strategy and home-brew idea to home-brew idea is going to drive you away from this game.  I wish I had a fraction of your (obvious) athleticism -- you have got all the physical tools to be a good player.  Now get some guidance and some focus and go get it done!

Good luck!!

Thanks for the feedback.  After doing some more research and talking with some folks, I learned that this "scapula move" is nothing more than scapula protraction at address.  It's something I can do as I grip my club and take my stance, and then I can forget about it, since it's set.  

Obviously, my lurching from strategy to strategy and idea to idea stems from the frustration that builds when particular ideas suddenly stop working, whether it's on the range or on the course.  Sure, I accept most of the blame, whether it's the lack of ability to produce the correct movement or lack of patience to continue trying to produce the correct movement using that single idea.  My pattern tends to look like this: (1) employ idea 1 and hit it reasonably well for a finite time, (2) lose the feel for idea 1 and start hitting wild shots, (3) try ideas 2, 3, 4, etc. until a quality shot is produced, (4) employ idea X and hit it well for a finite time, (5) lose the feel for idea X and go back to idea 1, (6) lather, rinse, repeat.

There has definitely been a "go-to" instruction set ("ground zero") that I've always returned to, because it's what started it all.  Every time I deviate, I tell myself, I need to trust what I started with and just keep plugging along with those ideas.  I've deviated about three times, as I tried working with new instructors that used new ideas.  But before long, I always went back to ground zero because I told myself to trust it.

The reason I called this my "new" golf thread is because I'm eliminating a key assumption: that ground zero is actually correct for me.  I'm now pretty much sold on the idea that I've been going back to the wrong thing for years.  It's possible that I bounce around between different ideas not because I don't have the patience to stick with one idea; but because "ground zero" was not the right approach for me.  In other words, I should have never gone back to ground zero.
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#57 Chomper

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 12:59 AM

Pepsi -
You need to get out of your own head, see an instructor you like, and listen to him/her. You clearly have no idea what you are doing, and are only screwing yourself up further by trying to fix what you think is wrong.
Give up. Let yourself be taught.
I feel stupider having read this thread.

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#58 pinhigh27

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 04:23 AM

Seems like what you're doing isn't working yet you keep doijg it. Baby blades and rebar shafts aren't going to make you consistently break 100 and keep ball on planet. Seems more like you'd benefit from  a very high frequency set of lessons like once or twice a week in order to keep your focus on stuff that matters. That will do way more for your game than clubs will.
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#59 PowderedToastMan

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 07:37 AM

 TTGolf77, on 12 April 2018 - 11:19 PM, said:

I tried to explain this in another thread and nobody listened, but your swing is such a perfect example I'm going to try again.

Everyone in this thread and 99.9% of golfers have no idea how to release through impact. All this talk about keeping things simple and having passive arms in the downswing is complete nonsense. The reason people believe this is because a passive release is better than a incorrect release. A very specific force is applied to the shaft from P6 to P7.

I illustrated this by drawing a line between the top of the glove in both you and Tiger's swing. From P6 to P7, the clubhead works down and out, obviously. What is less obvious is that the hands must move up and in during the same time period or else your hands are going to stall and your going to get less an optimal shaft lean and rate of closure through impact.

This snaps the shaft like a whip through impact and is the key to both power and clubface control. You are never going to hit the rest of the positions in the swing perfectly without understanding the release.
You said nobody in this thread knows how to properly release the club, yet I just checked video and confirmed that my hands move up and in at impact.

I guess that means... my brains are much larger than yours.
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#60 jut111

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 08:04 AM

 TTGolf77, on 12 April 2018 - 11:19 PM, said:

I tried to explain this in another thread and nobody listened, but your swing is such a perfect example I'm going to try again.

Everyone in this thread and 99.9% of golfers have no idea how to release through impact. All this talk about keeping things simple and having passive arms in the downswing is complete nonsense. The reason people believe this is because a passive release is better than a incorrect release. A very specific force is applied to the shaft from P6 to P7.

I illustrated this by drawing a line between the top of the glove in both you and Tiger's swing. From P6 to P7, the clubhead works down and out, obviously. What is less obvious is that the hands must move up and in during the same time period or else your hands are going to stall and your going to get less an optimal shaft lean and rate of closure through impact.

This snaps the shaft like a whip through impact and is the key to both power and clubface control. You are never going to hit the rest of the positions in the swing perfectly without understanding the release.

99.9% of golfers don't understand this?  really.  Guess I'm a top achiever!  I'd argue that what you describe is more a result of having the arms in sync with a good pivot then an active intention however.  

To relate it back to the OP, do you think this thought would help him?  I have no doubt Pepsi understands what you describe but no intention to do so is going to get him there from where he is in transition/early downswing.


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