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Why haven't PGA Tour scores come down w/ tech


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#31 TLUBulldogGolf

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 08:18 AM

 MadGolfer76, on 10 April 2018 - 08:31 PM, said:

Because tech has been geared to "farther," and not "closer."

A majority of the best players play an iron with more or less the same tech than 30 years ago though :huh:

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#32 buckeyefl

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 03:27 PM

 BrianMcG, on 10 April 2018 - 09:40 PM, said:

Because the golf courses are almost 1000 yards longer.

But according to some the players are hitting it 3000 yards farther!

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#33 Ashley Schaeffer

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 03:54 PM

 buckeyefl, on 11 April 2018 - 03:27 PM, said:

 BrianMcG, on 10 April 2018 - 09:40 PM, said:

Because the golf courses are almost 1000 yards longer.

But according to some the players are hitting it 3000 yards farther!

Isn't that the truth.  Ugh.  Gone are the days when the real men could feather in a 5 iron from 153 to truly "make" a shot.  Anybody can just go all out on a PW from that distance; it takes no talent at all.  Rumor has it that a 19th century surgeon didn't even intend for DJ to hit an 8-iron 190, so why are we allowing it?
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#34 bervin

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 03:57 PM

 Ashley Schaeffer, on 11 April 2018 - 03:54 PM, said:

 buckeyefl, on 11 April 2018 - 03:27 PM, said:

 BrianMcG, on 10 April 2018 - 09:40 PM, said:

Because the golf courses are almost 1000 yards longer.

But according to some the players are hitting it 3000 yards farther!

Isn't that the truth.  Ugh.  Gone are the days when the real men could feather in a 5 iron from 153 to truly "make" a shot.  Anybody can just go all out on a PW from that distance; it takes no talent at all.  Rumor has it that a 19th century surgeon didn't even intend for DJ to hit an 8-iron 190, so why are we allowing it?

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#35 buckeyefl

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 05:16 PM

 BrianMcG, on 10 April 2018 - 09:40 PM, said:

Because the golf courses are almost 1000 yards longer.

But according to some the players are hitting it 3000 yards farther!


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#36 MadGolfer76

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 09:38 PM

 TLUBulldogGolf, on 11 April 2018 - 08:18 AM, said:

 MadGolfer76, on 10 April 2018 - 08:31 PM, said:

Because tech has been geared to "farther," and not "closer."

A majority of the best players play an iron with more or less the same tech than 30 years ago though :huh:

Agreed. My thinking is that there has been much more devotion to drivers, fw's, etc. than to irons. Perhaps disproportionately so?
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#37 Slanman

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 10:59 AM

I think that’s because it’s easier to sell someone a new driver than it is to sell them an entire new set of irons. That’s why drivers and putters are changed so often. But on the flip side, IMO the driver is very important. A bad drive is going to put you in a much worse position than a bad iron shot.

And there’s so much you can do to advance driver tech. Irons seem a bit limited. 15-20 year old blades don’t seem much different than brand new blades

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#38 ray9898

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 11:44 AM

....because courses have evolved with the equipment.

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#39 Dave230

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 12:09 PM

People complain about it only being wedges into par 4s. But the greens are so firm now that holding a pitching wedge is like holding a 7 or 8 iron from years ago.

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#40 15th Club

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 12:32 PM

 Ashley Schaeffer, on 11 April 2018 - 03:54 PM, said:

 buckeyefl, on 11 April 2018 - 03:27 PM, said:

 BrianMcG, on 10 April 2018 - 09:40 PM, said:

Because the golf courses are almost 1000 yards longer.

But according to some the players are hitting it 3000 yards farther!

Isn't that the truth.  Ugh.  Gone are the days when the real men could feather in a 5 iron from 153 to truly "make" a shot.  Anybody can just go all out on a PW from that distance; it takes no talent at all.  Rumor has it that a 19th century surgeon didn't even intend for DJ to hit an 8-iron 190, so why are we allowing it?

And now, thanks to improved equipment and the genius of the PGA Tour, we now have all of these wonderful, new, improved, exciting, Tour-ready golf courses; the TPC of Avondale, the TPC Four Seasons in Las Colinas, the TPC of San Antonio, Liberty National, the Ritz Carlton at Dove Mountain...  all of those courses, along with too many other "TPC" courses to name, dominating the lists of "The Worst Courses on the PGA Tour."


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#41 RDD

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 12:38 PM

View PostBrianMcG, on 10 April 2018 - 09:40 PM, said:

Because the golf courses are almost 1000 yards longer.
Exactly

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#42 Forged4ever

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 12:45 PM

The same reason that the average amís cap hasnít come down w/tech....

Cheers🍻
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Edited by Forged4ever, 13 April 2018 - 12:46 PM.

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#43 Ferguson

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 12:46 PM

Golf is the perfect unbeatable game.  

Tech promotes distance and accuracy, correct?

Even as amateurs, we all know that a good score is not always the product of perfect distance and perfect accuracy.

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#44 Forged4ever

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 12:54 PM

View PostFerguson, on 13 April 2018 - 12:46 PM, said:

Golf is the perfect unbeatable game.  

Tech promotes distance and accuracy, correct?

Even as amateurs, we all know that a good score is not always the product of perfect distance and perfect accuracy.
But, wait a sec Fergs....

Youíre telling me that a guy who couldnít consistently hit a 30* 6i, wonít now be all over that hole with a 30* 7i???

I donít believe it😜

These caps are gonna drop like friggin rocks😝😝

Forget about using past performance to determine future outcomes, itís gonna be different this time😂😂

Have a great weekend Bro🍻
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Edited by Forged4ever, 13 April 2018 - 12:55 PM.

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#45 Ashley Schaeffer

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 01:54 PM

View Post15th Club, on 13 April 2018 - 12:32 PM, said:

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 11 April 2018 - 03:54 PM, said:

View Postbuckeyefl, on 11 April 2018 - 03:27 PM, said:

View PostBrianMcG, on 10 April 2018 - 09:40 PM, said:

Because the golf courses are almost 1000 yards longer.

But according to some the players are hitting it 3000 yards farther!

Isn't that the truth.  Ugh.  Gone are the days when the real men could feather in a 5 iron from 153 to truly "make" a shot.  Anybody can just go all out on a PW from that distance; it takes no talent at all.  Rumor has it that a 19th century surgeon didn't even intend for DJ to hit an 8-iron 190, so why are we allowing it?

And now, thanks to improved equipment and the genius of the PGA Tour, we now have all of these wonderful, new, improved, exciting, Tour-ready golf courses; the TPC of Avondale, the TPC Four Seasons in Las Colinas, the TPC of San Antonio, Liberty National, the Ritz Carlton at Dove Mountain...  all of those courses, along with too many other "TPC" courses to name, dominating the lists of "The Worst Courses on the PGA Tour."

And Cog Hill, Torrey Pines, and a few courses designed by . . . *gasp* . . . Jack Nicklaus himself!  I'm positive that the state of modern technology severely shackled his vision - in 1987.

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#46 15th Club

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 02:21 PM

Cog

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 13 April 2018 - 01:54 PM, said:

View Post15th Club, on 13 April 2018 - 12:32 PM, said:

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 11 April 2018 - 03:54 PM, said:

View Postbuckeyefl, on 11 April 2018 - 03:27 PM, said:

View PostBrianMcG, on 10 April 2018 - 09:40 PM, said:

Because the golf courses are almost 1000 yards longer.

But according to some the players are hitting it 3000 yards farther!

Isn't that the truth.  Ugh.  Gone are the days when the real men could feather in a 5 iron from 153 to truly "make" a shot.  Anybody can just go all out on a PW from that distance; it takes no talent at all.  Rumor has it that a 19th century surgeon didn't even intend for DJ to hit an 8-iron 190, so why are we allowing it?

And now, thanks to improved equipment and the genius of the PGA Tour, we now have all of these wonderful, new, improved, exciting, Tour-ready golf courses; the TPC of Avondale, the TPC Four Seasons in Las Colinas, the TPC of San Antonio, Liberty National, the Ritz Carlton at Dove Mountain...  all of those courses, along with too many other "TPC" courses to name, dominating the lists of "The Worst Courses on the PGA Tour."

And Cog Hill, Torrey Pines, and a few courses designed by . . . *gasp* . . . Jack Nicklaus himself!  I'm positive that the state of modern technology severely shackled his vision - in 1987.

Cog Hill was always an unremarkable post-classic golf course.  It's a quasi-muni.  Torrey Pines (which I have played quite often and personally enjoy) is a true muni.  It has never been a favorite of golf architecture buffs.  The grass there is like a science experiment.  I also think that Torrey's rep suffers because they use the North course for two days of the Farmers.

Personally, I like Jack's design at Dove Mountain.  I don't know if the tour players didn't like the setup for Match Play, or what.  I don't know why they don't like it.

But we do know what the players consistently like; courses like Cypress Point, the Melbourne Sandbelt courses, Crystal Downs, Sand Hills, Royal County Down, Prairie Dunes, Riviera; NGLA; all courses that are or will be threatened by technology (or which are basically unusable for elite stroke play events).

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#47 Ashley Schaeffer

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 02:51 PM

View Post15th Club, on 13 April 2018 - 02:21 PM, said:

Cog

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 13 April 2018 - 01:54 PM, said:



And Cog Hill, Torrey Pines, and a few courses designed by . . . *gasp* . . . Jack Nicklaus himself!  I'm positive that the state of modern technology severely shackled his vision - in 1987.

Cog Hill was always an unremarkable post-classic golf course.  It's a quasi-muni.  Torrey Pines (which I have played quite often and personally enjoy) is a true muni.  It has never been a favorite of golf architecture buffs.  The grass there is like a science experiment.  I also think that Torrey's rep suffers because they use the North course for two days of the Farmers.

Personally, I like Jack's design at Dove Mountain.  I don't know if the tour players didn't like the setup for Match Play, or what.  I don't know why they don't like it.

But we do know what the players consistently like; courses like Cypress Point, the Melbourne Sandbelt courses, Crystal Downs, Sand Hills, Royal County Down, Prairie Dunes, Riviera; NGLA; all courses that are or will be threatened by technology (or which are basically unusable for elite stroke play events).

None of them are unusable.  Putts will always be more important than what club someone hits.
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#48 MtlJeff

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 02:51 PM

View Postbuckeyefl, on 11 April 2018 - 03:27 PM, said:

View PostBrianMcG, on 10 April 2018 - 09:40 PM, said:

Because the golf courses are almost 1000 yards longer.

But according to some the players are hitting it 3000 yards farther!

At a cost , according to some people who may or may not be the head of the USGA, of TRILLIONS!!!!
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#49 Barfolomew

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 02:54 PM

Its like the tech helps Amateur golfers way more then Pros.  Amateurs are playing on relatively the same courses as 20 years ago while the pros tech advantage has been easily off set by making courses tougher...

Have amateur scores decreased in the last 20 years?
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#50 Ashley Schaeffer

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 02:59 PM

View PostMtlJeff, on 13 April 2018 - 02:51 PM, said:

View Postbuckeyefl, on 11 April 2018 - 03:27 PM, said:

View PostBrianMcG, on 10 April 2018 - 09:40 PM, said:

Because the golf courses are almost 1000 yards longer.

But according to some the players are hitting it 3000 yards farther!

At a cost , according to some people who may or may not be the head of the USGA, of TRILLIONS!!!!

The elderly couple in front of me yesterday really held up our round.  Probably because my course had to be lengthened to combat their assault on par.

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#51 Slanman

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 03:23 PM

Same reason free throw % hasn’t increased in the nba for like 50 years

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#52 Shilgy

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 03:30 PM

View Post15th Club, on 13 April 2018 - 02:21 PM, said:

Cog

Cog Hill was always an unremarkable post-classic golf course.  It's a quasi-muni.  Torrey Pines (which I have played quite often and personally enjoy) is a true muni.  It has never been a favorite of golf architecture buffs.  The grass there is like a science experiment.  I also think that Torrey's rep suffers because they use the North course for two days of the Farmers.

Personally, I like Jack's design at Dove Mountain.  I don't know if the tour players didn't like the setup for Match Play, or what.  I don't know why they don't like it.

But we do know what the players consistently like; courses like Cypress Point, the Melbourne Sandbelt courses, Crystal Downs, Sand Hills, Royal County Down, Prairie Dunes, Riviera; NGLA; all courses that are or will be threatened by technology (or which are basically unusable for elite stroke play events).
This was said of one of your bottom 10 which I am sure you will agree with  "Shorten it for starters,"  
   As previously mentioned...most of the courses you feel are threatened by technology and long hitters are most importantly not "big" enough to hold elite stroke play events. Not too short. No room for tents and fans.

Edit-Cypress never held big time events. It was on the PGA tour until 1991 but was taken off the tour for another reason than course length.  Royal County Down has held more " men's elite events" since 2000 than it did before 2000.  So unless than are somehow threatened by amateur womens prowess but not the mens'??
NGLA only event ever is the Walker Cup-in 2013.
Sand Hills was built in 1995, just on the outskirts of a town of 491 folks. Where would they put the spectators at night? In the basement?

Edited by Shilgy, 13 April 2018 - 03:47 PM.

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#53 vanillafunk616

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 03:42 PM

Lol... It seems like half of the old timers want to claim technology is ruining the game and the other half want to claim it makes no difference and it's all a scam.

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#54 Ashley Schaeffer

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 03:46 PM

View PostSlanman, on 13 April 2018 - 03:23 PM, said:

Same reason free throw % hasn’t increased in the nba for like 50 years

Indeed.  Maybe they should raise the hoop and move back the FT line to preserve the legacies of Hornacek and Mark Price.  You know, reward the real shotmakers.
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#55 Tingting

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 04:07 PM

Because at the end of it all it will still always be the Indian and not the arrow.


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#56 15th Club

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 04:43 PM

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 13 April 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

View PostSlanman, on 13 April 2018 - 03:23 PM, said:

Same reason free throw % hasn’t increased in the nba for like 50 years

Indeed.  Maybe they should raise the hoop and move back the FT line to preserve the legacies of Hornacek and Mark Price.  You know, reward the real shotmakers.

Oh you mean that basketball-playing athletes maybe aren't getting all that much better?  It's just golfing "athletes"?

Or is it better said that unlike golf, in basketball there aren't equipment manufacturers with R&D budgets of many, many millions, all building better and better free-throw shooting machines for the players to use?

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#57 Ashley Schaeffer

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 10:48 PM

View Post15th Club, on 13 April 2018 - 04:43 PM, said:

View PostAshley Schaeffer, on 13 April 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

View PostSlanman, on 13 April 2018 - 03:23 PM, said:

Same reason free throw % hasn’t increased in the nba for like 50 years

Indeed.  Maybe they should raise the hoop and move back the FT line to preserve the legacies of Hornacek and Mark Price.  You know, reward the real shotmakers.

Oh you mean that basketball-playing athletes maybe aren't getting all that much better?  It's just golfing "athletes"?


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Nah, I think it's pretty much across the board.
Driver: 9.5*
3W: 15*
5W: 19*-ish?
Irons: 4-PW
Wedges: 50*, 54*, 58*
Putter:  Putter

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#58 Ashley Schaeffer

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 11:07 PM

My sincere apologies, but that Cousy dribbling expo that would get picked in any middle school game today makes me laugh every time through.  Broke ya ankles!
Cousy was great in his era.  Amazing, really.  Nobody, however, deludes himself into thinking Ol' Bobby could run the point for the Spurs today; that would be plain stupid to suggest.
And, yet, we are expected to think that the legendary golfers of yesteryear could somehow be just as legendary today?  I'm not buying it, and I'm pretty old.
Players back then were great, and should be celebrated.  Players now are better.
Driver: 9.5*
3W: 15*
5W: 19*-ish?
Irons: 4-PW
Wedges: 50*, 54*, 58*
Putter:  Putter

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#59 Guia

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 11:34 PM

I don't think that the players now are better than the stars of yesteryear, there are just more of them now.  It is impossible to compare different era's in golf.  

The average over all scores. may be about the same as years ago, but you see many more 59s, 60, 61, 63 than ever before.  Just about every tournament someone will post 63 or less.

Edited by Guia, 13 April 2018 - 11:38 PM.


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#60 Hankshank

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 12:17 AM

So, what have learned? That the courses are longer and that players have better equipment to hit it further? Anythong else than that? Do they hit a 150 yd approach shot better now?


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