Jump to content

Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at GolfWRX such as viewing all the images, interacting with members, access to all forums and eligiblility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

* * * * * 2 votes

Don't Bump


222 replies to this topic

#31 mudge

mudge

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 364901
  • Joined: 03/03/2015
  • Location:Oregon
  • Handicap:n/a
GolfWRX Likes : 51

Posted 10 April 2018 - 09:52 PM

View PostBottleCap, on 10 April 2018 - 09:38 PM, said:

I wonder if this is the one that George Gankas is upset about



When I first watched that video I thought they may have been alluding to GG's move.


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


1

#32 Fort Worth Pro

Fort Worth Pro

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,674 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 58263
  • Joined: 06/18/2008
GolfWRX Likes : 1349

Posted 10 April 2018 - 09:57 PM

View PostBottleCap, on 10 April 2018 - 09:38 PM, said:

I wonder if this is the one that George Gankas is upset about



Why should he be upset about other teachers answering questions about what they see in their 3D captures?

2

#33 TheWoat

TheWoat

    Advanced

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 454 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 26424
  • Joined: 03/07/2007
GolfWRX Likes : 37

Posted 10 April 2018 - 11:40 PM

Important question in my mind....are GGs students getting bad info that leads to suboptimal swings? Or is it false information but leads to good results (truth vs metaphorical truth)

3

#34 Fort Worth Pro

Fort Worth Pro

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,674 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 58263
  • Joined: 06/18/2008
GolfWRX Likes : 1349

Posted 11 April 2018 - 12:01 AM

View PostTheWoat, on 10 April 2018 - 11:40 PM, said:

Important question in my mind....are GGs students getting bad info that leads to suboptimal swings? Or is it false information but leads to good results (truth vs metaphorical truth)

I personally couldn't care less what instructors teach for feels. I get bothered when they say certain things happen that contradict all known 3D data and/or misrepresent what other people are teaching. The video in the op is a pretty gross misrepresentation of the AMG guys stuff as far as I am concerned.

4

#35 mudge

mudge

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 364901
  • Joined: 03/03/2015
  • Location:Oregon
  • Handicap:n/a
GolfWRX Likes : 51

Posted 11 April 2018 - 12:20 AM

View PostFort Worth Pro, on 10 April 2018 - 06:42 PM, said:

View Postmudge, on 10 April 2018 - 05:07 PM, said:

Did GG post that due to some IG beef or t**-for-tat with AMG?
I think GG makes it pretty obvious this is about AMG when he emphasizes "athletic motion" in his video.

Definitely aimed at AMG, he said athletic motion with emphasis twice in the clip lol.


5

#36 airjammer

airjammer

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 715 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 28903
  • Joined: 05/13/2007
  • Handicap:4.2
GolfWRX Likes : 198

Posted 11 April 2018 - 07:06 AM

Again..the question isnít what pros do anymore..itís what they or we should be doing to get even better.  

Fwp or whoever please correct me if Iím wrong. It seems the ďbumpĒ is just a way to get low point forward and (initial AMG hand drop) to keep the hand from going too far forward toward the target line on the downswing.

Gg and Iím going to include Dana. Seem to think itís better to have deeper hands and rotate almost immediately (because they believe the shallower the better?)

6

#37 BottleCap

BottleCap

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 918 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 132067
  • Joined: 06/30/2011
  • Location:SoCal
GolfWRX Likes : 372

Posted 11 April 2018 - 09:32 AM

View Postairjammer, on 11 April 2018 - 07:06 AM, said:

Again..the question isnít what pros do anymore..itís what they or we should be doing to get even better.  

Fwp or whoever please correct me if Iím wrong. It seems the ďbumpĒ is just a way to get low point forward and (initial AMG hand drop) to keep the hand from going too far forward toward the target line on the downswing.

Gg and Iím going to include Dana. Seem to think itís better to have deeper hands and rotate almost immediately (because they believe the shallower the better?)

That's your question.

AMG just presents measurements with a sample of your players using Gears and pressure plates.

Gankas presents his theory.

There are many theories out there.
Titleist 913 D2 10.5 Fujikura Speeder Evolution 2 661
Titleist 915F 15 Fujikura Speeder Evolution 757
Titleist 718 AP2 3-4 AMT S300
Titleist 712 MB 5-PW DG S300
Vokey SM6 54S and 60M
Cameron Newport 2 CT

7

#38 Quick Bucket

Quick Bucket

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 132 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 484204
  • Joined: 10/12/2017
  • Location:Michigan
GolfWRX Likes : 49

Posted 11 April 2018 - 10:59 AM

View PostFort Worth Pro, on 10 April 2018 - 04:29 PM, said:

View PostQuick Bucket, on 10 April 2018 - 03:39 PM, said:

View PostFort Worth Pro, on 10 April 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

View Postmudge, on 10 April 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

View PostFort Worth Pro, on 10 April 2018 - 01:03 PM, said:

It's a shot at AMG but it's an uneducated shot. There is a difference in lateral motion and a "bump". Body absolutely moves laterally and it does it without the lower running out from under it while keeping the left hip low in transition. He is fighting a straw man if his own creation.

What's the difference between a lateral move a la AMG and the bump shown by GG?

In a correct lateral move the center of the rib cage is in front of the center of the pelvis until just after lead arm parallel and the left hip stays below the rightnuntil the hands are hip high. That all happens while the entire body shifts forward about 3-4 inches.

There is more than one way to move, none being more "correct" than the other.

By correct I mean what good tour players do. Every tour player moves laterally before they rotate

Can you post a caddy-view picture with a lateral move showing that relationship between center of rib cage and center of pelvis when lead arm is parallel?

8

#39 CSagan

CSagan

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,004 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 128909
  • Joined: 05/17/2011
GolfWRX Likes : 282

Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:12 AM

Here you can see Jordan's ribcage stay on top while drifting laterally.





9

#40 glk

glk

    send it in jerome

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,970 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 336135
  • Joined: 08/25/2014
  • Location:Kodak, Tn/Chucktown, Sc via Chicago & Burgh
GolfWRX Likes : 4392

Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:13 AM

3D view of movement you are asking about. If you stop it and step through you'll find that the pro in the video at p5 has his ribcage 4.3 inches closer to the target and his pelvis 3.4 inches - at impact these go to 2.4 and 3.6 - so he actually moves his ribcage back between p5 and impact while keeping his pelvis the same distance. And at the top he has moved both ribcage and pelvis 2.0 inches closer to the target so that additional 1-2 inches he moves closer thru transition is that "fall" feel that actually starts at the end of the backswing.


Edited by glk, 11 April 2018 - 11:48 AM.


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


10

#41 CSagan

CSagan

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,004 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 128909
  • Joined: 05/17/2011
GolfWRX Likes : 282

Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:14 AM

All that lateral movement seems like it's setup by how you move your body on the backswing. I had to go to feeling like my hips slide away from target and really felt tilted over towards target and the fall kinda happens on it's on from there.

11

#42 glk

glk

    send it in jerome

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,970 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 336135
  • Joined: 08/25/2014
  • Location:Kodak, Tn/Chucktown, Sc via Chicago & Burgh
GolfWRX Likes : 4392

Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:17 AM

View PostCSagan, on 11 April 2018 - 11:14 AM, said:

All that lateral movement seems like it's setup by how you move your body on the backswing. I had to go to feeling like my hips slide away from target and really felt tilted over towards target and the fall kinda happens on it's on from there.
Yes, I feel the "fall" start right at the end of the backswing when I sense my shoulder moving kinda down and toward the target.    The AMG guys' short step drill really gives this feel of the upper body fall to start.

12

#43 glk

glk

    send it in jerome

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,970 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 336135
  • Joined: 08/25/2014
  • Location:Kodak, Tn/Chucktown, Sc via Chicago & Burgh
GolfWRX Likes : 4392

Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:23 AM

View Postairjammer, on 11 April 2018 - 07:06 AM, said:

Again..the question isn't what pros do anymore..it's what they or we should be doing to get even better.  

Fwp or whoever please correct me if I'm wrong. It seems the "bump" is just a way to get low point forward and (initial AMG hand drop) to keep the hand from going too far forward toward the target line on the downswing.

Gg and I'm going to include Dana. Seem to think it's better to have deeper hands and rotate almost immediately (because they believe the shallower the better?)

Would need to see 3D of a number of GG players to really know what they are doing and how it's differs from current tour swings.   How one would tell if this gives a mechanical advantage to hitting the ball better is going to take smarter people than me.   lol.

13

#44 Lord Helmet

Lord Helmet

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,307 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 221885
  • Joined: 01/15/2013
  • Location:Fairfield TWP
GolfWRX Likes : 3333

Posted 11 April 2018 - 12:07 PM

This guy is someone I just loathe.  The flat bill hat, yo what up intro.....the way he treated a member here (there was a thread I think)....

BUT

Dammit if I just tried out his feel thing with a driver and 6i and it really resonated with me.  Gonna have a co-worker shoot some video of me.

I hate this game.
LTD Pro - Elements Chrome 6f4
Rogue SZ 3w - Aldila Synergy
Callaway UT 19* - UST Utility Proto 95 F4
Srixon 565/765 Combo 5-PW - Project X 5.5
SM5 50,54,58,62 - F,K,S Grinds -  Rifle 6.0
Bettinardi Inovai 3.0 CS
'17 Pro V1x

14

#45 LaterOn61

LaterOn61

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 618 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 177194
  • Joined: 04/24/2012
  • Location:PA
  • Handicap:5-7
GolfWRX Likes : 84

Posted 11 April 2018 - 12:28 PM

One thing that has hurt the golf instruction industry for years, and why I believe we lost so many players, is that you go to different teachers and instead of working with what you have they teach you their theory. I could care less about theories. Data becomes fact and throws theory out the window. The AMG view is refreshing in that it is backed up by data and not some guy guessing. Some in the thread said AMG bases their data on a few players. I don't believe that is correct. Between Granato, Hamilton, and Shaun they have access to plenty of players.


15

#46 Redjeep83

Redjeep83

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,537 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 115910
  • Joined: 10/08/2010
GolfWRX Likes : 667

Posted 11 April 2018 - 12:55 PM

GG has some really good stuff in pretty much all he teaches including the pivot but there are some little things in pivot that I don't think are mandatory which make is much harder for the average person to learn. I'm sure he's got his reasons for them and they are feels but it's also refreshing to see AMG putting out what the tour pro's are actually doing.

16

#47 CSagan

CSagan

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,004 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 128909
  • Joined: 05/17/2011
GolfWRX Likes : 282

Posted 11 April 2018 - 01:29 PM

View Postglk, on 11 April 2018 - 11:17 AM, said:

View PostCSagan, on 11 April 2018 - 11:14 AM, said:

All that lateral movement seems like it's setup by how you move your body on the backswing. I had to go to feeling like my hips slide away from target and really felt tilted over towards target and the fall kinda happens on it's on from there.
Yes, I feel the "fall" start right at the end of the backswing when I sense my shoulder moving kinda down and toward the target.    The AMG guys' short step drill really gives this feel of the upper body fall to start.

FortWorthPro helped me with what I explained above. I sent him a video and he was like just feel this and this. Works great.

17

#48 NikeGolferTX

NikeGolferTX

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 203 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 475866
  • Joined: 07/21/2017
  • Handicap:?
GolfWRX Likes : 93

Posted 11 April 2018 - 01:52 PM

To clarify:

AMG says the hips go forward 4-5 inches but the torso does NOT hang back.

But they don't believe the solution to fix this is to be taught to hang back with both the upper and lower body (GG).
This is where I disagree with AMG. For an exaggeration feel, hanging back on both might help you from keeping the torso from hanging back and you might still naturally move forward.

Solutions don't do the same thing for everyone. Having someone try something might yield 2 or more different results for different people.

But most agree that bumping generally makes the torso hang back...but maybe not for everybody.

Golf is weird like that.

Edited by NikeGolferTX, 11 April 2018 - 01:58 PM.


18

#49 ebrasmus21

ebrasmus21

    Serial Shanker

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,909 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 250392
  • Joined: 05/13/2013
  • Location:CA
  • Handicap:5
GolfWRX Likes : 2194

Posted 11 April 2018 - 02:59 PM

I've been interested at the responses here because I really like a lot of what the AMG guys talk about.  Just took an online lesson with Mike and really liked the way they structure their online stuff.  

Sucks that Mike doesn't log on to wrx anymore.  Not sure if Shaun or the other guys ever had profiles.
Cobra F7+ - Copperhead 70TX
Ping G15 - Looking to replace
21* Fourteen Type 7 Driving Iron - HZRDUS Black 6.5 105g
23* Fourteen Type 7 Driving Iron - HZRDUS Black 6.5 105g
5-PW Yururi Flat Back Raw (Black) - DGTI X100s
GW, SW Royal Collect Dual Bite - DGTI S400s
Lob Wedge - SM6 MGrind - DGTI S400
Scotty Circa '62 No. 2
Snell MTB Black

19

#50 Fort Worth Pro

Fort Worth Pro

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,674 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 58263
  • Joined: 06/18/2008
GolfWRX Likes : 1349

Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:24 PM

View PostNikeGolferTX, on 11 April 2018 - 01:52 PM, said:

To clarify:

AMG says the hips go forward 4-5 inches but the torso does NOT hang back.

But they don't believe the solution to fix this is to be taught to hang back with both the upper and lower body (GG).
This is where I disagree with AMG. For an exaggeration feel, hanging back on both might help you from keeping the torso from hanging back and you might still naturally move forward.

Solutions don't do the same thing for everyone. Having someone try something might yield 2 or more different results for different people.

But most agree that bumping generally makes the torso hang back...but maybe not for everybody.

Golf is weird like that.

A little more diplomatic here than on  Instagram Jordan.

Edited by Fort Worth Pro, 12 April 2018 - 12:12 AM.


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


Wanna get rid of this ugly yellow box? And remove other annoying "stuff" in between posts? Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

20

#51 dap

dap

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,425 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 35223
  • Joined: 07/21/2007
GolfWRX Likes : 407

Posted 12 April 2018 - 12:02 AM

Both Hogan and Knudson had huge amounts of hip bump. Were they hacks?

21

#52 Roffe

Roffe

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 16 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 414592
  • Joined: 03/06/2016
  • Location:Sweden
  • Handicap:11
GolfWRX Likes : 2

Posted 12 April 2018 - 03:33 AM

Just a thought: If you try too hard t hold your torso static, is´nt there a risk for a reverse pivot? In the videos posted in this tread, you can not see any "reversed K", which, in my World, is something desirable.

22

#53 glk

glk

    send it in jerome

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,970 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 336135
  • Joined: 08/25/2014
  • Location:Kodak, Tn/Chucktown, Sc via Chicago & Burgh
GolfWRX Likes : 4392

Posted 12 April 2018 - 05:19 AM

View PostRoffe, on 12 April 2018 - 03:33 AM, said:

Just a thought: If you try too hard t hold your torso static, is´nt there a risk for a reverse pivot? In the videos posted in this tread, you can not see any "reversed K", which, in my World, is something desirable.




23

#54 Silky

Silky

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 711 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 103468
  • Joined: 02/15/2010
GolfWRX Likes : 172

Posted 12 April 2018 - 05:55 AM

Common sense to me is that the bump is to feed the lead hip to the lead leg in flexion to be propelled away from the target line by lead leg extension thus turning the pelvis.  Optimal leverage is when the lead hip joint is in line with the extending force and the pelvis is perpendicular to the extending force (neither in ER or IR).

24

#55 Poser

Poser

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,658 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 144057
  • Joined: 10/25/2011
  • Location:Wake Forest, NC
  • Handicap:+1
GolfWRX Likes : 314

Posted 12 April 2018 - 06:01 AM

View PostBottleCap, on 11 April 2018 - 09:32 AM, said:

View Postairjammer, on 11 April 2018 - 07:06 AM, said:

Again..the question isn't what pros do anymore..it's what they or we should be doing to get even better.  

Fwp or whoever please correct me if I'm wrong. It seems the "bump" is just a way to get low point forward and (initial AMG hand drop) to keep the hand from going too far forward toward the target line on the downswing.

Gg and I'm going to include Dana. Seem to think it's better to have deeper hands and rotate almost immediately (because they believe the shallower the better?)

That's your question.

AMG just presents measurements with a sample of your players using Gears and pressure plates.

Gankas presents his theory.

There are many theories out there.

They make videos rambling about nothing never really gettting a point a cross and horrible demonstrations.  No idea how anyone gets anything from any of their videos...


25

#56 jut111

jut111

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,363 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 205837
  • Joined: 10/04/2012
  • Location:North of Boston
GolfWRX Likes : 853

Posted 12 April 2018 - 06:06 AM

View PostPoser, on 12 April 2018 - 06:01 AM, said:

View PostBottleCap, on 11 April 2018 - 09:32 AM, said:

View Postairjammer, on 11 April 2018 - 07:06 AM, said:

Again..the question isn't what pros do anymore..it's what they or we should be doing to get even better.  

Fwp or whoever please correct me if I'm wrong. It seems the "bump" is just a way to get low point forward and (initial AMG hand drop) to keep the hand from going too far forward toward the target line on the downswing.

Gg and I'm going to include Dana. Seem to think it's better to have deeper hands and rotate almost immediately (because they believe the shallower the better?)

That's your question.

AMG just presents measurements with a sample of your players using Gears and pressure plates.

Gankas presents his theory.

There are many theories out there.

They make videos rambling about nothing never really gettting a point a cross and horrible demonstrations.  No idea how anyone gets anything from any of their videos...

No idea how you've watched their videos and have that take. Different strokes I guess.

26

#57 Hilts1969

Hilts1969

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 905 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 378062
  • Joined: 05/28/2015
  • Location:Manchester
GolfWRX Likes : 254

Posted 12 April 2018 - 06:47 AM

I think the normal rules apply here unless you are a golfer who films and understands his/her own swing watching AMG videos can be damaging as can GG stuff. A spinner could get in serious trouble with the gankas pivot and a slider the same with AMG. As feel is not real you actually need to see what you are actually doing.

27

#58 i*windows

i*windows

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,866 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 26638
  • Joined: 03/13/2007
  • Location:Bavaria
  • Handicap:12.3
GolfWRX Likes : 778

Posted 12 April 2018 - 08:07 AM

I like watching GG Instagram posts and enjoy reading about the swing, but is it just me, or is everything getting too complicated. What happened to turn back and turn through?

Edited by i*windows, 12 April 2018 - 08:08 AM.

Just hit the damn ball.
TM R1
Adams Tight lies 2 5w
Cleveland Mashie 5h
Nike Covert Forged 2, 6-PW
Cleveland 588 Tour Action 51*
MD Golf Seve Sedona 58*
Yes Sandy.

28

#59 BottleCap

BottleCap

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 918 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 132067
  • Joined: 06/30/2011
  • Location:SoCal
GolfWRX Likes : 372

Posted 12 April 2018 - 09:39 AM

View Posti*windows, on 12 April 2018 - 08:07 AM, said:

I like watching GG Instagram posts and enjoy reading about the swing, but is it just me, or is everything getting too complicated. What happened to turn back and turn through?

They're trying to show you their unique swing. You need those details, can't mix and match stuff from different instructors.
Titleist 913 D2 10.5 Fujikura Speeder Evolution 2 661
Titleist 915F 15 Fujikura Speeder Evolution 757
Titleist 718 AP2 3-4 AMT S300
Titleist 712 MB 5-PW DG S300
Vokey SM6 54S and 60M
Cameron Newport 2 CT

29

#60 airjammer

airjammer

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 715 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 28903
  • Joined: 05/13/2007
  • Handicap:4.2
GolfWRX Likes : 198

Posted 12 April 2018 - 10:03 AM

View Posti*windows, on 12 April 2018 - 08:07 AM, said:

I like watching GG Instagram posts and enjoy reading about the swing, but is it just me, or is everything getting too complicated. What happened to turn back and turn through?

If that worked for 99.9% people he wouldnít have 94.9k followers


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


Wanna get rid of this ugly yellow box? And remove other annoying "stuff" in between posts? Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

30



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

GolfWRX Sponsors