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Amount of bounce on Pro's sand and lob wedges


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#1 totally_addicted

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 10:26 AM

I'm looking to change my setup from 46, 52, 58  to  48, 54, 60.  I'm not sure which club, between the 54 and the 60, do Pros use mostly out of the sand and how much bounce is on each club.  Right now I use my 58.08 for everything, sand, lobs, pitchs and from the fairway.  Just trying to figure out how much bounce to get on the 54 and 60.  Thanks in advance for the info.

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#2 villa

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 10:37 AM

From what I've seen on tour and the guys I know using this setup, they like it because not only do they have a nice even gap between clubs but also because they have two specialist clubs. A sand wedge is a sand wedge and a lob wedge is a lob wedge.

Therefore, you'll see anything from 8*-14* in the sand wedge and 3*-8* in the lob wedge. I've personally always found 8* to be useless. It's not enough for a lob wedge and it's too little for a sand wedge.

Take advantage of the fact that they're two completely different clubs.

#3 dlygrisse

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 10:58 AM

It depends......
What are you using the club for?
Are you more of a digger or a sweeper?
Do you like to lay it open and hit super flops?
Do you take big divots?
Do you want a custom grind with varible sole grinds?
What are the turf and sand condidtions you usually play on.  

If the pros have a stock 56* SW and a 60 I would assume the SW has relativley high boucnce, and the LW has fairly low bounce, remember that Bob Vokey and roger Cleveland custom grind the soles for these guys so it is probably not the same wedge you buy at Golfsmith.  Mickleson has a variety of wedges, his 64 has almost zero bounce from what I hear.  I think Tiger has about 8* on his SW and 6* on his LW.  

I personally find a 58/8 to be perfect and a very versitle club.  YMMV
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#4 FairwayFred

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 12:38 PM

 villa, on May 1 2008, 08:37 AM, said:

From what I've seen on tour and the guys I know using this setup, they like it because not only do they have a nice even gap between clubs but also because they have two specialist clubs. A sand wedge is a sand wedge and a lob wedge is a lob wedge.

Therefore, you'll see anything from 8*-14* in the sand wedge and 3*-8* in the lob wedge. I've personally always found 8* to be useless. It's not enough for a lob wedge and it's too little for a sand wedge.

Take advantage of the fact that they're two completely different clubs.

This is generally he wrong way to go about setting up your wedges and will cause big problems for you.  The bounce angle you need is mostly a function of your angle of attack and your swing style.  If you have a steep angle of attack and take big divots you need a high effective bounce angle, if you take little to no divot and your main mishit is thin you need a low effective bounce angle.  If one wedge is going to be used more for sand shots and one wedge is going to be used more for lob shots what you need to do is match up the relief pattern to the shots that you hit to help assure your success but the bounce angle should not change much if at all.  If it is a wedge that you use from the sand a fuller sole with little to no relief will generally work best.  If it is a wedge that you use mostly around the greens and like to open the face than you need something with an aggressive relief pattern so that when you open the face the leading edge will not come too far off the ground.  If you get one wedge with a high effective bounce angle and one wedge with a low effective bounce angle you are simply going to have one wedge that works for you and one wedge that does not work for you.  When making clubs for our Tour Pros we do not see them go with a high bounce sand wedge and a low bounce lob wedge.  They generally get 2 wedges that fit their swing type and the shots the like to hit.  In fact our most popular LW on Tour right now is the PWE grind which is one of our highest bounce grinds.  

The bottom line is, figure out what kind of swing type you are than match ALL your wedges to how you swing the club.
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#5 mat562

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 12:59 PM

The 'find what works for you' ethos is never truer than in the case of wedges.

With all due respect, I do precisely what Ari recommends against in his post above. I carry a 56 degree sand wedge with a medium sole and 14 degrees of bounce. It's my sand club and I do a lot of my chipping and pitching with it.

Closer to the green I rely on a 60 degree lob wedge with almost no bounce on it. I can pitch well with it, despite having a steep angle of attack and being a taker of large divots, without too many problems. Primarily, it works really well from the tight lies I typicaly find at greenside, and into our greens which are typically slightly elevated.

Two very different clubs for two different jobs.

The biggest problem I see amongst people selecting wedges is that they become obsessed with having nice even loft and yardage gaps to the detriment of actually finding a club that works around the greens. Even spacing of lofts is all well and good, but I'd rather have my lofts out of kilter (like mine are) and a club or two that work consistently well when I need to chip or pitch with them.

Edited by mat562, 01 May 2008 - 01:00 PM.


#6 kinneywhat

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 01:03 PM

Ari, you guys at Scratch seriously know more about wedges than I ever thought possible.  If I had the money, I would get some wedges from you in a heartbeat.  

I always went with the high bounce sand, low bounce lob wedge.  These work fine for me, but after reading your post, it makes me think...... how much better would wedges and grinds fit to my swing work.  Granted, the wedges I have were both fit.... but not in the sense you explained.  

Maybe when I'm ready for new wedges in a couple years, you'll be hearing from me.  Do you guys get vidoes of people's swings and help them with the wedges and grinds that way?

#7 totally_addicted

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 03:16 PM

What are you using the club for?
Sand play, lobs, pitches and a variety of shots from 100 yards and closer.

Are you more of a digger or a sweeper?
I'd say I'm more of a digger, but trying to shallow out my swing.

Do you like to lay it open and hit super flops?
Only when really needed.

Do you take big divots?
On most full shots i take a medium to large divots.


Do you want a custom grind with varible sole grinds?
I think I would want some heel relief on my lob wedge so the leading edge is close to the turf to make lobs easier.  I'm unsure of the bounce i would need for consistant sand play.

What are the turf and sand condidtions you usually play on?
Play in the northeast, NJ/NY.  Turf is pretty soft and the sand is heavier compared to what I've experienced in the south and west.
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#8 totally_addicted

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 03:21 PM

 FairwayFred, on May 1 2008, 01:38 PM, said:

 villa, on May 1 2008, 08:37 AM, said:

From what I've seen on tour and the guys I know using this setup, they like it because not only do they have a nice even gap between clubs but also because they have two specialist clubs. A sand wedge is a sand wedge and a lob wedge is a lob wedge.

Therefore, you'll see anything from 8*-14* in the sand wedge and 3*-8* in the lob wedge. I've personally always found 8* to be useless. It's not enough for a lob wedge and it's too little for a sand wedge.

Take advantage of the fact that they're two completely different clubs.

This is generally he wrong way to go about setting up your wedges and will cause big problems for you.  The bounce angle you need is mostly a function of your angle of attack and your swing style.  If you have a steep angle of attack and take big divots you need a high effective bounce angle, if you take little to no divot and your main mishit is thin you need a low effective bounce angle.  If one wedge is going to be used more for sand shots and one wedge is going to be used more for lob shots what you need to do is match up the relief pattern to the shots that you hit to help assure your success but the bounce angle should not change much if at all.  If it is a wedge that you use from the sand a fuller sole with little to no relief will generally work best.  If it is a wedge that you use mostly around the greens and like to open the face than you need something with an aggressive relief pattern so that when you open the face the leading edge will not come too far off the ground.  If you get one wedge with a high effective bounce angle and one wedge with a low effective bounce angle you are simply going to have one wedge that works for you and one wedge that does not work for you.  When making clubs for our Tour Pros we do not see them go with a high bounce sand wedge and a low bounce lob wedge.  They generally get 2 wedges that fit their swing type and the shots the like to hit.  In fact our most popular LW on Tour right now is the PWE grind which is one of our highest bounce grinds.  

The bottom line is, figure out what kind of swing type you are than match ALL your wedges to how you swing the club.

Wow that is the first time anyone has explained it to me that way.  Makes a lot of sense.  Some grinding may be needed in the near future.
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#9 Viking Golfer

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 06:26 PM

 villa, on May 1 2008, 05:37 PM, said:

From what I've seen on tour and the guys I know using this setup, they like it because not only do they have a nice even gap between clubs but also because they have two specialist clubs. A sand wedge is a sand wedge and a lob wedge is a lob wedge.

Therefore, you'll see anything from 8*-14* in the sand wedge and 3*-8* in the lob wedge. I've personally always found 8* to be useless. It's not enough for a lob wedge and it's too little for a sand wedge.

Take advantage of the fact that they're two completely different clubs.

I'm certainly not a pro nor a tour player, in fact far from, but I love my lobwedge to have 5-6 of bounce. More than that and it is useless to me as a lobwedge Posted Image

I also have a nice grind on my lobwedge, in fact made by Fairway Fred and his certified pro grinder, and I love my lobwedge. It's my best and most versatile wedge in my bag. I love my sandwedge to have 12-14 of bounce, to really sweep the ball out of dry bunkers with a lot of fluffy sand in them.

If the bunkers are wet, I use my low bounced lobwedge to dig the ball out of there :yes:

I can only recommend to have your wedges made by pro grinder, that will try to find the correct boounce, lie, loft and most important the best grind for you.
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#10 Viking Golfer

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 06:31 PM

 kinneywhat, on May 1 2008, 08:03 PM, said:

Ari, you guys at Scratch seriously know more about wedges than I ever thought possible.  If I had the money, I would get some wedges from you in a heartbeat.  

I always went with the high bounce sand, low bounce lob wedge.  These work fine for me, but after reading your post, it makes me think...... how much better would wedges and grinds fit to my swing work.  Granted, the wedges I have were both fit.... but not in the sense you explained.  

Maybe when I'm ready for new wedges in a couple years, you'll be hearing from me.  Do you guys get vidoes of people's swings and help them with the wedges and grinds that way?

I will probably never buy a retail wedge ever again.
I will always go the total, but expensive route - custom forged wedges from start to finish made by Scratch - and No, I'm not a stock holder at Scartch, nor do I get discounts, when I buy wedges form them -I just tell you my honest opinion :yes:

I thought my 3 custom made soft forged 1018 Scratch wedges would be worn out by now - in fact I was ready for a new order, but they hold up very well - far better than expected. In fact to my utter surprise, they hold up better than my 3 retail cast Vokey wedges :yes:

I will place a new order for 3 custom made Scratch wedges this summer........or maybe this fall, when ever my current trio of custom Scratch wedges have worn out in the grooves.


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#11 theothertwo

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 06:32 PM

 totally_addicted, on May 1 2008, 08:26 AM, said:

I'm looking to change my setup from 46, 52, 58  to  48, 54, 60.  I'm not sure which club, between the 54 and the 60, do Pros use mostly out of the sand and how much bounce is on each club.  Right now I use my 58.08 for everything, sand, lobs, pitchs and from the fairway.  Just trying to figure out how much bounce to get on the 54 and 60.  Thanks in advance for the info.


I am not a pro but I just made that switch, had a 52/8 and 58/8 Vokey combo and although a great combo, I did not think the 58/8 did a really good job in the sand.  With that combo,  I felt I never had a real sand wedge and a real lob wedge for that matter so I switched back to a 54/14 and 60/04 Vokey SM combination.  Hope that helps.  It reminds me of my old Cleveland TA 588 56/14 and 60/3 wedge combo which was the standard for along time IMO.

Edited by theothertwo, 01 May 2008 - 06:46 PM.


#12 tourblade

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 02:04 AM

I started using the stan utley technique and i can hit a sm5812 off of any lie as high as any 60 degree with low bounce, that includes wet hard packed sand.  fyi

#13 tourblade

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 02:06 AM

I started using the stan utley technique and i can hit a sm5812 off of any lie as high as any 60 degree with low bounce, that includes wet hard packed sand.  fyi

#14 tourblade

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 02:06 AM

I started using the stan utley technique and i can hit a sm5812 off of any lie as high as any 60 degree with low bounce, that includes wet hard packed sand.  fyi

#15 villa

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 03:17 AM

 FairwayFred, on May 1 2008, 12:38 PM, said:

 villa, on May 1 2008, 08:37 AM, said:

From what I've seen on tour and the guys I know using this setup, they like it because not only do they have a nice even gap between clubs but also because they have two specialist clubs. A sand wedge is a sand wedge and a lob wedge is a lob wedge.

Therefore, you'll see anything from 8*-14* in the sand wedge and 3*-8* in the lob wedge. I've personally always found 8* to be useless. It's not enough for a lob wedge and it's too little for a sand wedge.

Take advantage of the fact that they're two completely different clubs.

This is generally he wrong way to go about setting up your wedges and will cause big problems for you.  The bounce angle you need is mostly a function of your angle of attack and your swing style.  If you have a steep angle of attack and take big divots you need a high effective bounce angle, if you take little to no divot and your main mishit is thin you need a low effective bounce angle.  If one wedge is going to be used more for sand shots and one wedge is going to be used more for lob shots what you need to do is match up the relief pattern to the shots that you hit to help assure your success but the bounce angle should not change much if at all.  If it is a wedge that you use from the sand a fuller sole with little to no relief will generally work best.  If it is a wedge that you use mostly around the greens and like to open the face than you need something with an aggressive relief pattern so that when you open the face the leading edge will not come too far off the ground.  If you get one wedge with a high effective bounce angle and one wedge with a low effective bounce angle you are simply going to have one wedge that works for you and one wedge that does not work for you.  When making clubs for our Tour Pros we do not see them go with a high bounce sand wedge and a low bounce lob wedge.  They generally get 2 wedges that fit their swing type and the shots the like to hit.  In fact our most popular LW on Tour right now is the PWE grind which is one of our highest bounce grinds.  

The bottom line is, figure out what kind of swing type you are than match ALL your wedges to how you swing the club.
Ari, you're absolutely right.

Your knowledge of wedges and what consumers (and tour pro's) want, is of course vastly superior to mine. The one thing I didn't take into account when making my post was the advent of grinds available not only on Scratch wedges (which is second to none in my opinion), but also on a lot of OEM wedges nowadays.

My opinions came from a period when I was spending a lot of time with tour players. Grinds weren't as readily available as they are today (a bit of heel relief on a sand wedge was about as far as it went). I come from a time where the Cleveland 588 was in 99% of players bags. 56* sand wedge with 13* of bounce and 60* lob wedge with 3* of bounce. I do know that a lot of people have stuck with this principal (two different clubs for two different jobs) but having said that, I know that guys are now choosing all their wedges with high or low bounce depending on their swing type and then having master grinders like yourself, adjusting them to be able to use them around the greens.  

Maybe I'm stuck in the past. The high bounce SW, low bounce LW principal is something I've used since I started playing golf but maybe I need to get my wallet out and start looking at some of the other options!

P.S Keep up the great work and if I haven't said it before, it's fantastic to have someone like yourself available on GolfWRX to offer advice when needed.


#16 SwingMan

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 04:42 AM

Before Scratch opened our eyes, I once thought like several posters above -- high bounce SW, low bounce LW -- WRONG.

As Ari stated above, it's primarily about your angle of attack, then you make adjustments to the grind from that main characteristic. A digger with a low bounce LW can dig a hole to China unless he changes swings and picks that ball. In fact, I did that with my Zodia when I didn't know what I was doing several years ago. Talk about a sharp leading edge.

Anyway, the journey begins with who you are -- picker, driver, digger.

I've found that you can have a high bounce LW with relief around the heel, toe, and if needed, on the trailing edge to make a more versatile LW with medium to high bounce that acts like a low bounce wedge.

From Scratch Golf: A Sweeper is going to benefit from something lower bounce, with no camber and a sharpish leading edge. The Digger is going to benefit from a rolled leading edge and some camber to prevent the club from getting too far into the ground. Someone with a moderate angle of attack (dollar bill sized divots) is going to benefit from a killed leading edge and slight amount of camber to help them in a variety of conditions.

As to Philly Mick, I believe he is a high bounce guy -- and uses plenty of bounce even in the 64 if what Cally says is true -- 64/9 -- he uses the 64 when the rough is brutal but the leading edge remains low. He takes a nice divot - so naturally, he'll use bounce. His 60 is based on the X Tour 60-11 -- that's 11 degrees of bounce. I assume his X Forged Tour Authentic PM Grind wedge is 10 degrees since it has his initials on the grind. Go to Callaway TV, you'll hear Phil's discussion about wedges.

Edited by SwingMan, 07 May 2008 - 09:11 PM.

Callaway is trending up

#17 totally_addicted

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 11:43 AM

 tourblade, on May 2 2008, 03:06 AM, said:

I started using the stan utley technique and i can hit a sm5812 off of any lie as high as any 60 degree with low bounce, that includes wet hard packed sand.  fyi


What is the Stan Utley technique?
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#18 FairwayFred

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 12:42 PM

 villa, on May 1 2008, 08:37 AM, said:

I come from a time where the Cleveland 588 was in 99% of players bags. 56* sand wedge with 13* of bounce and 60* lob wedge with 3* of bounce.

The other problem stems from the inconsistency with which companies measure "bounce".  For example back in the day (not 100% sure how they do it now) Cleveland would measure from the leading edge of the club to the trailing edge of the club.  The problem with that is TRUE bounce is measured from the leading edge to the contact point on the sole (or the lowest point on the sole the part that will come in contact with the ground first when the wedge is laid on the ground).  Therefor any wedge that Cleveland made that had any camber (roundness from leading edge to trailing edge) would measure far lower than what the bounce actually is.  That 56* 588 Cleveland sand wedge had basically no camber so when they measure the bounce they get 13* or 14* which is what the wedge actually is.  The "3* bounce" Cleveland 588 lob wedge had a ton of camber so the bounce measurement they give is not accurate to true bounce.  That 588 Cleveland actually had closer to 10* true bounce due to the extreme amount of camber that was on the sole.  IMO that specific wedge has done more to harm golfers in their purchase of future wedges because they had it stuck in their head that they needed very low bounce to match their existing wedge when the wedge they thought had 3* bounce was actually closer to 10*.
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#19 Baconator

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 01:25 PM

 FairwayFred, on May 2 2008, 01:42 PM, said:

 villa, on May 1 2008, 08:37 AM, said:

I come from a time where the Cleveland 588 was in 99% of players bags. 56* sand wedge with 13* of bounce and 60* lob wedge with 3* of bounce.

The other problem stems from the inconsistency with which companies measure "bounce".  For example back in the day (not 100% sure how they do it now) Cleveland would measure from the leading edge of the club to the trailing edge of the club.  The problem with that is TRUE bounce is measured from the leading edge to the contact point on the sole (or the lowest point on the sole the part that will come in contact with the ground first when the wedge is laid on the ground).  Therefor any wedge that Cleveland made that had any camber (roundness from leading edge to trailing edge) would measure far lower than what the bounce actually is.  That 56* 588 Cleveland sand wedge had basically no camber so when they measure the bounce they get 13* or 14* which is what the wedge actually is.  The "3* bounce" Cleveland 588 lob wedge had a ton of camber so the bounce measurement they give is not accurate to true bounce.  That 588 Cleveland actually had closer to 10* true bounce due to the extreme amount of camber that was on the sole.  IMO that specific wedge has done more to harm golfers in their purchase of future wedges because they had it stuck in their head that they needed very low bounce to match their existing wedge when the wedge they thought had 3* bounce was actually closer to 10*.

Thanks for another informative post, Ari!

#20 ToysRUs

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 01:58 PM

This has all been very interesting.  As a devotee of engineering and physics in the sports I play I enjoy figuring out why things work the way they do. Golf clubs are as interesting to me as how all the moving parts in a motorcycle help or hinder it from turning. Same but different stuff.
By coincidence when I bought my new set of CG-14 wedges (52-10*,56-14*, 60-12*)and I had to choose the two options of bounce I chose the std as opposed to the low bounce.  I thought and decided that because I tend to trap the ball with a more descending blow I would need more bounce to help the club get back up from the turf/sand.

Currently the lofts are being adjusted to 50, 55, and still 60. to try and get my yardage spacing more to my liking.  The only other problem I have is tight lies around the green with the 60. I imagine I could use less bounce or some heel relief to let me get the leading edge down closer to the turf.  

It's all a learning process!!!!!

Thanks everyone for your input!


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#21 labillyboy

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 03:55 PM

 FairwayFred, on May 1 2008, 10:38 AM, said:

This is generally he wrong way to go about setting up your wedges and will cause big problems for you. The bounce angle you need is mostly a function of your angle of attack and your swing style. .... In fact our most popular LW on Tour right now is the PWE grind which is one of our highest bounce grinds.

The bottom line is, figure out what kind of swing type you are than match ALL your wedges to how you swing the club.

Thanks Ari, good perspective on this... Isn't it possible that the same player (especially pros and skilled players) may use different anlgles of attack depending on what they want the ball to do and what the turf conditions are...  this would seem to call for having one stick with more bounce and one with less...  I know I use different swings for different situations and since I can only bring along 14 sticks.... I think there are some good solutions to this dilemma with different grinds, but overall I can make an argument for someone with only two wedges to have one with higher bounce and one with lower bounce...  I always have at least 3 wedges using at least one with the opposite bounce charateristic of the other two.

As to your other point... wouldn't pros naturally want more bounce since they are almost always playing in pristine conditions, not the hardpan the rest of us get from time to time?

#22 villa

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 10:53 AM

 FairwayFred, on May 2 2008, 12:42 PM, said:

The other problem stems from the inconsistency with which companies measure "bounce".  For example back in the day (not 100% sure how they do it now) Cleveland would measure from the leading edge of the club to the trailing edge of the club.  The problem with that is TRUE bounce is measured from the leading edge to the contact point on the sole (or the lowest point on the sole the part that will come in contact with the ground first when the wedge is laid on the ground).  Therefor any wedge that Cleveland made that had any camber (roundness from leading edge to trailing edge) would measure far lower than what the bounce actually is.  That 56* 588 Cleveland sand wedge had basically no camber so when they measure the bounce they get 13* or 14* which is what the wedge actually is.  The "3* bounce" Cleveland 588 lob wedge had a ton of camber so the bounce measurement they give is not accurate to true bounce.  That 588 Cleveland actually had closer to 10* true bounce due to the extreme amount of camber that was on the sole.  IMO that specific wedge has done more to harm golfers in their purchase of future wedges because they had it stuck in their head that they needed very low bounce to match their existing wedge when the wedge they thought had 3* bounce was actually closer to 10*.
Ari, that's something I really didn't know (no surprise there!)

I've used a Cleveland 588 lob wedge on and off since I started playing golf and I always presumed it had 3* of bounce. I never even took into consideration the camber on the sole but looking at an old one, I see what you mean. On a side note, I'm currently using the newer TSC models and the sole does appear to be a lot flatter. Would that club actually have 3* or are you not sure. Just out of interest, do you know if the Vokey 60.04 has the same issue?

Thanks again for the info thus far, very informative.

#23 mat562

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 11:06 AM

I always felt that this was an issue, having played 588 'Tom Austin' :yes: wedges for years before defecting to Vokeys in recent times. The 60.04 Vokey seems to play with much less bounce than the 588 60-degree club - despite nominally having a degree more bounce and a wider sole.

In any case, I've always ground most of my lob wedges to get a minimal amount of bounce whatever they've been.

I still stand by my contention that having two wedges with different bounce can be a viable option though, aside from whatever grinds are applied to them. My bunker method and my long pitching method work best with more bounce, whereas my chipping around the greens is helped enormously by having a lob wedge with very little effective bounce. Grinds are all well and good, but at the end of the day what works works, and a low bounce lob wedge is a fantastic tool for me in the conditions I typically encounter - as is a high bounce sand wedge.

I've tried all sorts of different grinds in my time, and the bottom line is the combination I've currently got in play is the best for me.

#24 villa

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 11:32 AM

 mat562, on May 3 2008, 11:06 AM, said:

588 'Tom Austin' :yes:
You are hilarious.

I realise now but I was convinced when I was a kid that it said Tom Austin, not Tour Action on the back of a 588 wedge!

He must've been a hell of a player to have such a great wedge named after him  :yes:

#25 mat562

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 11:39 AM

Sorry mate... Couldn't resist.

Although, in all fairness, it does look a bit like 'Tom Austin' if you stare at it for long enough... :yes:


#26 ragu421

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 11:53 AM

 kinneywhat, on May 1 2008, 02:03 PM, said:

Ari, you guys at Scratch seriously know more about wedges than I ever thought possible.  If I had the money, I would get some wedges from you in a heartbeat.  

I always went with the high bounce sand, low bounce lob wedge.  These work fine for me, but after reading your post, it makes me think...... how much better would wedges and grinds fit to my swing work.  Granted, the wedges I have were both fit.... but not in the sense you explained.  

Maybe when I'm ready for new wedges in a couple years, you'll be hearing from me.  Do you guys get vidoes of people's swings and help them with the wedges and grinds that way?
I have seen "Scratch" wedges on ebay in the hundred dollar range.You wont find a Chikara wedge for that but Id recomend hitting one of those before buying. My pro at The Cliffs @ Walnut Cove had a 57* Chikara that he allowed me to use for a round.They are beautiful clubs,no doubt, but I wouldnt trade my Sonartec's for them.I just couldnt do anything with them but fold sod over them.I guess you have to have "that swing" for a Chikara wedge and I certainly can understand why some folks with harder turf condidtions would dig them.They do look awesome.As I said,I use Sonartec t15 wedges and they can be had for a song now that they are out of business.Milled face and grooves.Made in Japan where all the great wedges are built and they are forged.Previously,I hit "off the rack" Vokey wedges in 48* loft /6* bounce,54* loft 10* bounce and 58* loft/12* bounce.I used the 58* {still do} for greenside bunkers and those lofts make them very versitle out of the fairway.You dont have to spend $400 to get a great wedge.Just look in a tour pro's bag {not nessecarily what you'ld want} and you will see what the guys who make their living at this great game play.A typical "club deal" is 10-12 clubs leaving room to select your own wedges,putter and/or driver.Only Ping {that Im aware of} makes you play all 14 clubs from them.Hell,David Toms carried a Taylor Made bag in Augusta for the Masters and I didnt see one single TM club in it.He was still playing his old Clevelands.Id recomend going to a "demo day" at your local club or range and hit balls with every wedge you can.Then you will be able to decide what works for you the best.The ball dosent know what name brand the club was that hit it and I think the ball is probably just as important piece of equiptment as any club.Find the right ball FIRST and then work your way up to the driver {if you are looking to replace}.The for sale forum here is a lot safer than ebay and some great deals by some fine,knowledgeable,folks.

#27 ragu421

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 11:55 AM

Also, most tour pros hit their wedges anywhere from 1*-4* flat.You might want to tinker with your lie angle.

#28 tiggah

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 09:23 PM

What should the wedge setup look like with the "new" iron lofts. Meaning my r7 PW is 45. If I just add 56 & 60, for example, it leaves a black hole right there in my bag. So should there be a gap wedge 52 or so as well, for that 120yds shot?

#29 playmuch

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 10:11 PM

Guy's who play with their wedges flat. is it off standard lie or off their usual lie angle. For example   my irons are 3 degree up. Should i experiment with a lie angle that is standard now which will be 3 degrees for me .

#30 texcrom

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 10:24 PM

The good news for me is that I figured out a couple of years ago that my sand and lob should both be high bounce due to my swing, and the fact that I did not want to think about a different approach to playing each wedge.

Thank you, Ari, for confirming my theory!!

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