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Most of the Top Players at my Course - Play Stock!


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#31 bluedot

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 08:24 AM

 ironcat, on 09 April 2018 - 08:12 AM, said:

 ppauls1978, on 08 April 2018 - 06:21 PM, said:

Looking at the bags of the top players at my club - most of them play stock clubs.  The top golfers I play with have never been fitted.

Some of them don't even know what shaft is in their drivers....  Some of them even have mis matched wedges! The horror!

They don't know the difference between cast and forged and don't even have putter head covers....

My general rule when looking at someone's bag is the better / more premium the clubs the higher the handicap.

Good players are going to be good players with anything, they are also more sensible to marketing hype.

Bad players are more desperate, they will be more willing to buy into the promise of 20 extra yards for that TaylorMade driver or that putter that can't miss.

I've played with $600 shafts and had custom fit irons by the guys fitting tour players, it has never made any difference to my scores, so I am now playing rusty old irons from 2012.

*That's not to say I don't always wonder about new clubs...

Interesting.  So, based on this progression that you've observed, I suppose we could assume that when we were watching the Masters yesterday, we were seeing players with "off-the-rack" equipment, rather than clubs to which they had been carefully fitted, right?  After all, they're going to be "good players with anything", right?

Jeez...


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#32 ppauls1978

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 08:32 AM

 bluedot, on 09 April 2018 - 08:24 AM, said:

 ironcat, on 09 April 2018 - 08:12 AM, said:

 ppauls1978, on 08 April 2018 - 06:21 PM, said:

Looking at the bags of the top players at my club - most of them play stock clubs.  The top golfers I play with have never been fitted.

Some of them don't even know what shaft is in their drivers....  Some of them even have mis matched wedges! The horror!

They don't know the difference between cast and forged and don't even have putter head covers....

My general rule when looking at someone's bag is the better / more premium the clubs the higher the handicap.

Good players are going to be good players with anything, they are also more sensible to marketing hype.

Bad players are more desperate, they will be more willing to buy into the promise of 20 extra yards for that TaylorMade driver or that putter that can't miss.

I've played with $600 shafts and had custom fit irons by the guys fitting tour players, it has never made any difference to my scores, so I am now playing rusty old irons from 2012.

*That's not to say I don't always wonder about new clubs...

Interesting.  So, based on this progression that you've observed, I suppose we could assume that when we were watching the Masters yesterday, we were seeing players with "off-the-rack" equipment, rather than clubs to which they had been carefully fitted, right?  After all, they're going to be "good players with anything", right?

Jeez...

no.  I said it's something I observed at my club.  Didn't say anything about tour pros.... And actually I have 2 good friends on various tours (including PGA tour).   Honestly we had this conversation last month and they say they can score the same with anything similar to their current irons.

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#33 jerebear21

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 08:38 AM

the two top players I play with on a weekly basis plays off +1 and +.1 plays specialized wedges, JDM irons, thousand dollars worth of jdm shafts.  They are OCD about their equipment.
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#34 overparfornow

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 09:43 AM

 Belmont148, on 09 April 2018 - 06:01 AM, said:

Really? My clubs driving range sounds like a live version of the golf WRX equipment section and the BST with guys selling gear left and right and folks getting fitted on demo days all the time. Sounds like your clubs golf iq is a little low.
And the only question that matters is can your guys beat his guys :wave:
Driver:    Ping G30 10.5* Stiff TFC419
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5 Wood: Callaway Big Bertha 18* Diablo Aldila DVS Stiff
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#35 North Texas

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 09:44 AM

I know and play with lots of guys, mostly single digit handicaps, who have been fitted. Not sure than any of them have seen any improvement in their game.

And that includes me.


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#36 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 09:45 AM

 bluedot, on 09 April 2018 - 08:24 AM, said:

 ironcat, on 09 April 2018 - 08:12 AM, said:

 ppauls1978, on 08 April 2018 - 06:21 PM, said:

Looking at the bags of the top players at my club - most of them play stock clubs.  The top golfers I play with have never been fitted.

Some of them don't even know what shaft is in their drivers....  Some of them even have mis matched wedges! The horror!

They don't know the difference between cast and forged and don't even have putter head covers....

My general rule when looking at someone's bag is the better / more premium the clubs the higher the handicap.

Good players are going to be good players with anything, they are also more sensible to marketing hype.

Bad players are more desperate, they will be more willing to buy into the promise of 20 extra yards for that TaylorMade driver or that putter that can't miss.

I've played with $600 shafts and had custom fit irons by the guys fitting tour players, it has never made any difference to my scores, so I am now playing rusty old irons from 2012.

*That's not to say I don't always wonder about new clubs...

Interesting.  So, based on this progression that you've observed, I suppose we could assume that when we were watching the Masters yesterday, we were seeing players with "off-the-rack" equipment, rather than clubs to which they had been carefully fitted, right?  After all, they're going to be "good players with anything", right?

Jeez...

Great post!

 ppauls1978, on 09 April 2018 - 08:32 AM, said:

no.  I said it's something I observed at my club.  Didn't say anything about tour pros.... And actually I have 2 good friends on various tours (including PGA tour).   Honestly we had this conversation last month and they say they can score the same with anything similar to their current irons.

Who are they?

I play at a club where a couple web guys practice and two division one golf programs (one in the SEC) play a lot.  And those guys care a whole lot about their equipment.

I was lucky enough to be in the final group at the club championship.  The irons were j40 DPC, AP2, AP2, Apex Pro. The drivers were MP-600 FT (2012 pro launch red), Epic (rogue silver), Epic (no idea), 910D (some sort of orange and yellow proforce shaft that is reasonably old.

Why are you equating playing game improvement / older equipment with "not caring" about equipment?  I care a lot about my equipment, but I play older GI irons with stock shafts.  Thing is, its really hard to get away with what you learned on.  I have a 112 mph driver clubhead speed, but I learned to play on stiff super light s300 shafts in some old Adams cavity backs with thin toplines (thousands of rounds, and theyd still be around if not for groove rule change).

in a massive surprise, I play best with stiff super light s300 shafts in cavity backs with a thin topline.  Most of us play the best on whatever we learned to play on.

Edited by pinestreetgolf, 09 April 2018 - 09:53 AM.

aeroburner tp 9.5*, pxv 6.5
xr 15*, pxv 6.5
og burner triangle rescue tour 18*, s300
j40 dpc 4-9, s300
vokey sm6 46/08F 50/08F 54/08M 58/04L, s200
fitted edel

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#37 Golf&MMA

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 10:30 AM

I am able to get out a lot any play with many of the other members at my home course.

I play with an older gentleman(mid 50's) who nothing in his bag is newer than 2008 and all of it is stock, right off the rack. No range finder, and doesn't even play a urethane ball. I have never asked his handicap but from playing with him a lot, i'd say between a 2 and 4 handicap. Not that this matters, but he's also a super nice guy and never makes excuses for bad shots.

Now another guy I play with is younger (late 20's early 30's)  has a fully decked out titleist bag and has been fitted for every single piece of equipment in the bag also a $500 range finder to go with it. I'd say he's a 10-15 handicap at best(even though he thinks and acts like he's a 5).

This is just my opinion, but I think you could give a good golfer ANY set of clubs and they would make it work.

We spend way too much time on super specific specs and spending ludicrous amounts of money on equipment. But, that's just my opinion.

Edited by Golf&MMA, 09 April 2018 - 10:31 AM.


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#38 JohnKHawk

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 10:36 AM

I don't belong to an actual golf club but have been a visitor to many of them & what I have noticed is a lot I the people I see play off the rack clubs. Just my personal observation.  I couldn't say what they shoot though.

The regular group of guys I play golf with (15-20 guys) are all around 6-12 hcp & only a handful have been fit for their equipment. The guys who have been fit are still about the same hcp as before. Small gains in their game if any at all.

I watched a Shiels video where he tested 4 different flex shafts in a driver & the results were strikingly similar. Someone with a good solid fundamental golf swing can probably have success with almost any equipment today.

If someone is a 18 hcp or above & get fit they are probably throwing their money away. If you posting scores in the high 80's or low nineties or higher you have bigger problems than not ever have been fit for clubs. I would first take lessons & build a repeatable swing then maybe get fit for your clubs.

Personally I was fit for one set of irons & didn't notice any difference in my play. Tried hard to stick with them but in the end sold them & bought off the rack different set of irons which have worked out better for me. That's just my experience though. Everyone is different.

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#39 Golf&MMA

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 10:38 AM

 bluedot, on 09 April 2018 - 08:24 AM, said:

 ironcat, on 09 April 2018 - 08:12 AM, said:

 ppauls1978, on 08 April 2018 - 06:21 PM, said:

Looking at the bags of the top players at my club - most of them play stock clubs.  The top golfers I play with have never been fitted.

Some of them don't even know what shaft is in their drivers....  Some of them even have mis matched wedges! The horror!

They don't know the difference between cast and forged and don't even have putter head covers....

My general rule when looking at someone's bag is the better / more premium the clubs the higher the handicap.

Good players are going to be good players with anything, they are also more sensible to marketing hype.

Bad players are more desperate, they will be more willing to buy into the promise of 20 extra yards for that TaylorMade driver or that putter that can't miss.

I've played with $600 shafts and had custom fit irons by the guys fitting tour players, it has never made any difference to my scores, so I am now playing rusty old irons from 2012.

*That's not to say I don't always wonder about new clubs...

Interesting.  So, based on this progression that you've observed, I suppose we could assume that when we were watching the Masters yesterday, we were seeing players with "off-the-rack" equipment, rather than clubs to which they had been carefully fitted, right?  After all, they're going to be "good players with anything", right?

Jeez...


I don't think speaking about PGA players holds any water in this topic. They are getting paid a ton of money just to use the equipment and are professional golfers. If you're doing it for a living and someone says "this will make you 0.000000000001% better and not cost you anything" of course you do it.

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#40 Belmont148

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 10:40 AM

 Golf&MMA, on 09 April 2018 - 10:30 AM, said:

I am able to get out a lot any play with many of the other members at my home course.

I play with an older gentleman(mid 50's) who nothing in his bag is newer than 2008 and all of it is stock, right off the rack. No range finder, and doesn't even play a urethane ball. I have never asked his handicap but from playing with him a lot, i'd say between a 2 and 4 handicap. Not that this matters, but he's also a super nice guy and never makes excuses for bad shots.

Now another guy I play with is younger (late 20's early 30's)  has a fully decked out titleist bag and has been fitted for every single piece of equipment in the bag also a $500 range finder to go with it. I'd say he's a 10-15 handicap at best(even though he thinks and acts like he's a 5).

This is just my opinion, but I think you could give a good golfer ANY set of clubs and they would make it work.

We spend way too much time on super specific specs and spending ludicrous amounts of money on equipment. But, that's just my opinion.

 Golf&MMA, on 09 April 2018 - 10:30 AM, said:

I am able to get out a lot any play with many of the other members at my home course.

I play with an older gentleman(mid 50's) who nothing in his bag is newer than 2008 and all of it is stock, right off the rack. No range finder, and doesn't even play a urethane ball. I have never asked his handicap but from playing with him a lot, i'd say between a 2 and 4 handicap. Not that this matters, but he's also a super nice guy and never makes excuses for bad shots.

Now another guy I play with is younger (late 20's early 30's)  has a fully decked out titleist bag and has been fitted for every single piece of equipment in the bag also a $500 range finder to go with it. I'd say he's a 10-15 handicap at best(even though he thinks and acts like he's a 5).

This is just my opinion, but I think you could give a good golfer ANY set of clubs and they would make it work.

We spend way too much time on super specific specs and spending ludicrous amounts of money on equipment. But, that's just my opinion.
t

 Golf&MMA, on 09 April 2018 - 10:30 AM, said:

I am able to get out a lot any play with many of the other members at my home course.

I play with an older gentleman(mid 50's) who nothing in his bag is newer than 2008 and all of it is stock, right off the rack. No range finder, and doesn't even play a urethane ball. I have never asked his handicap but from playing with him a lot, i'd say between a 2 and 4 handicap. Not that this matters, but he's also a super nice guy and never makes excuses for bad shots.

Now another guy I play with is younger (late 20's early 30's)  has a fully decked out titleist bag and has been fitted for every single piece of equipment in the bag also a $500 range finder to go with it. I'd say he's a 10-15 handicap at best(even though he thinks and acts like he's a 5).

This is just my opinion, but I think you could give a good golfer ANY set of clubs and they would make it work.

We spend way too much time on super specific specs and spending ludicrous amounts of money on equipment. But, that's just my opinion.

Who is this "We" you speak of? You got a mouse in your pocket?

Edited by Belmont148, 09 April 2018 - 10:42 AM.

Current Bag:

Cobra F7+ Driver 10.5 Aldila Rogue 125 Silver TS 44.5"
Ping G 3w stock Alta Stiff 42.25"
F6 Baffler 5w Aldila Rogue Black 70 stiff
Cobra F7 4H 22* Aldila Rogue 85H R flex
Mizuno MP15 5-PW Project X LZ 5.5
MD2 Tour 52* and 58* S200/300
PM Grind MD3 64* KBS 610
Scotty Studio Stainless Newport 2

Alternates:
Epic SZ 13.5* HZRDUS Stiff
MD Forged 56* S200
PM Grind MD3 60* KBS Wedge

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#41 BForrester

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 11:06 AM

View PostBye, on 08 April 2018 - 07:17 PM, said:

It's not much of a suprise when you see the up charge cost for some shafts.

Especially if you play Titleist
Taylormade M1 9.75o Aldila Tour Green 70x
Taylormade RBZ 3w 15o Aldila Tour Blue 70x
Taylormade Rescue Dual 19o R-Flex
Mizuno JPX-850 Forged 4-GW DG S300
Mizuno S5 (54, 58)
Odyssey Tank Cruiser #1

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#42 bluedot

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 11:13 AM

View PostGolf&MMA, on 09 April 2018 - 10:38 AM, said:

View Postbluedot, on 09 April 2018 - 08:24 AM, said:

View Postironcat, on 09 April 2018 - 08:12 AM, said:

View Postppauls1978, on 08 April 2018 - 06:21 PM, said:

Looking at the bags of the top players at my club - most of them play stock clubs.  The top golfers I play with have never been fitted.

Some of them don't even know what shaft is in their drivers....  Some of them even have mis matched wedges! The horror!

They don't know the difference between cast and forged and don't even have putter head covers....

My general rule when looking at someone's bag is the better / more premium the clubs the higher the handicap.

Good players are going to be good players with anything, they are also more sensible to marketing hype.

Bad players are more desperate, they will be more willing to buy into the promise of 20 extra yards for that TaylorMade driver or that putter that can't miss.

I've played with $600 shafts and had custom fit irons by the guys fitting tour players, it has never made any difference to my scores, so I am now playing rusty old irons from 2012.

*That's not to say I don't always wonder about new clubs...

Interesting.  So, based on this progression that you've observed, I suppose we could assume that when we were watching the Masters yesterday, we were seeing players with "off-the-rack" equipment, rather than clubs to which they had been carefully fitted, right?  After all, they're going to be "good players with anything", right?

Jeez...


I don't think speaking about PGA players holds any water in this topic. They are getting paid a ton of money just to use the equipment and are professional golfers. If you're doing it for a living and someone says "this will make you 0.000000000001% better and not cost you anything" of course you do it.

First of all, most of the men and women who play golf professionally are NOT paid "a ton of money just to use the equipment".  They don't PAY for the equipment, but they don't get money to use it, unless you are talking about the upper echelon of the PGA and LPGA Tours.  (BTW, you probably know by now that Patrick Reed won yesterday without a club contract.)

But in any case, you are talking about two VERY different things here.  A professional golfer who plays a particular BRAND under contract is one thing.  A professional golfer who plays "stock", rather than fitted, clubs is quite another.  Those guys work closely with their manufacturer's reps to get the exact specs they want; you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.  Not all of them are gear-heads, to be sure, but they are anything but casual about their equipment.

But all of that is a red herring anyway; the question at hand is whether or not "better" players are more or less likely to use off-the-rack clubs than lesser players.  The better players that I know, and I'm fortunate enough to know a LOT of them, at the very least test clubs extensively before they buy, even if they are "self-fitting".  I just don't know of very many good players anymore who still try to play competitively, who just walk into a store and buy stuff off the rack and hope it works.

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#43 juststeve

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 11:15 AM

Off the rack clubs are all ready fitted to men in the fat portion of the bell curve with regard to height, arm length and hand size.  I'm such a guy and I've played essentially the same clubs for more than 40 years, stock off the rack Titleist iron specs.  I went to a fitting with a fitter recommended by Titleist and after a lot of this and that and professional analysis he put me into a set of AP2s, standard lofts, standard lies, standard length dynamic gold s-300 shafts.   I hit the clubs well, thanks to the fitter.

Steve

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#44 bluedot

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 11:24 AM

View Postppauls1978, on 08 April 2018 - 06:21 PM, said:

Looking at the bags of the top players at my club - most of them play stock clubs.  The top golfers I play with have never been fitted.

Some of them don't even know what shaft is in their drivers....  Some of them even have mis matched wedges! The horror!

They don't know the difference between cast and forged and don't even have putter head covers....

I have a question.

When you look at the bag of another player and see their clubs, how do you know whether they were fitted or bought the clubs off the rack?  How do you know that their clubs aren't an inch longer, or a half inch shorter, or a degree flat, or two degrees upright?  Does a particular hosel setting count as fitted, or off the rack?  Does self-fitting on a monitor count, or only working with a clubfitter?  Does the clubfitter have to be certified, or is an employee at a store sufficient?  Does the employee have to have extensive experience at fitting, or just have a job in a golf store?

I was fitted in 2006 to Ping i5 irons, one inch long, and three degrees upright.  In 2015, I ordered a set of G30's at the same specs except with an R flex in graphite instead of an S flex in steel.  I did NOT work with a club fitter in 2015; does that count as "stock" since I ordered the clubs myself, or fitted since I used the specs for 9 years earlier?  Last week, I did a fitting and ordered some new irons; the specs came out EXACTLY the same as in 2006.

Finally, do you seriously want us to believe that you have players at your club that are both really good AND don't know their shaft flex?  'Cause that one I ain't buying...

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#45 tatertot

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 11:32 AM

There are a few good players who just buy clubs and spend a lot of time trying to learn to hit them.

And there are a lot of players who would rather spend a lot of money trying to buy a game than time and effort trying to work on a game.

Rare to find the player willing to do both.

Riding Bag
Driver: Adams Speedline Fast 11, 9°
Fairway: Adams Fast 10, 15*
Driving Iron: TaylorMade RocketBallz, 3I
Irons: Cobra F7 One Length, 4I-PW
Wedges: Titleist SM7, 48º; Titleist SM5, 54º & 58º
Putter: Flanigan Designed By, 35"

Walking Bag
Driver: Adams XTD, 9º
Irons: Ping Eye2, 2I-PW
Putter: Cameron Mid Sur, 34"

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#46 ppauls1978

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 12:16 PM

View Postbluedot, on 09 April 2018 - 11:24 AM, said:

View Postppauls1978, on 08 April 2018 - 06:21 PM, said:

Looking at the bags of the top players at my club - most of them play stock clubs.  The top golfers I play with have never been fitted.

Some of them don't even know what shaft is in their drivers....  Some of them even have mis matched wedges! The horror!

They don't know the difference between cast and forged and don't even have putter head covers....

I have a question.

When you look at the bag of another player and see their clubs, how do you know whether they were fitted or bought the clubs off the rack?  How do you know that their clubs aren't an inch longer, or a half inch shorter, or a degree flat, or two degrees upright?  Does a particular hosel setting count as fitted, or off the rack?  Does self-fitting on a monitor count, or only working with a clubfitter?  Does the clubfitter have to be certified, or is an employee at a store sufficient?  Does the employee have to have extensive experience at fitting, or just have a job in a golf store?

I was fitted in 2006 to Ping i5 irons, one inch long, and three degrees upright.  In 2015, I ordered a set of G30's at the same specs except with an R flex in graphite instead of an S flex in steel.  I did NOT work with a club fitter in 2015; does that count as "stock" since I ordered the clubs myself, or fitted since I used the specs for 9 years earlier?  Last week, I did a fitting and ordered some new irons; the specs came out EXACTLY the same as in 2006.

Finally, do you seriously want us to believe that you have players at your club that are both really good AND don't know their shaft flex?  'Cause that one I ain't buying...

1. I asked them
2. Doesn't matter if you do or dont.

I don't know why you are so upset about an observation I had.  

Golfed with a friend today - Stock Taylor Made Driver, old as dirt three wood, a nike VRS hybrid with no cover, Mizuno mp 15s stock and a pair of stock vokeys SM4.
He shot a 69.

16

#47 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 12:20 PM

View Postbluedot, on 09 April 2018 - 11:24 AM, said:

View Postppauls1978, on 08 April 2018 - 06:21 PM, said:

Looking at the bags of the top players at my club - most of them play stock clubs.  The top golfers I play with have never been fitted.

Some of them don't even know what shaft is in their drivers....  Some of them even have mis matched wedges! The horror!

They don't know the difference between cast and forged and don't even have putter head covers....

I have a question.

When you look at the bag of another player and see their clubs, how do you know whether they were fitted or bought the clubs off the rack?  How do you know that their clubs aren't an inch longer, or a half inch shorter, or a degree flat, or two degrees upright?  Does a particular hosel setting count as fitted, or off the rack?  Does self-fitting on a monitor count, or only working with a clubfitter?  

Great question.  I'm not trying to use myself as an example, but my j40s are 3* upright and they were a relatively obscure iron when they came out.  Can you tell they are 3* upright by looking at them?  That's a hell of a talent, if so.

The stock steel shaft in the j40 DPC was the KBS Tour 90.  I use a very common dynamic gold shaft that is stock in a ton of clubs (but NOT the j40).  Is that considered "stock" for the purposes of your comment?

Edit -

Nobody is "mad", we just don't like people talking absolute nonsense where beginners read it and might actually think its meritorious.

Edited by pinestreetgolf, 09 April 2018 - 12:21 PM.

aeroburner tp 9.5*, pxv 6.5
xr 15*, pxv 6.5
og burner triangle rescue tour 18*, s300
j40 dpc 4-9, s300
vokey sm6 46/08F 50/08F 54/08M 58/04L, s200
fitted edel

17

#48 sdandrea

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 12:25 PM

Talented players can adapt to the stix they own.  What they might be missing is lower scores with stuff that fits them better.  Might not, as well.

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#49 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 12:27 PM

Its gotta be pretty annoying for your playing partners that you have the measure all their drivers before they tee off to make sure they're the stock 45.5".
aeroburner tp 9.5*, pxv 6.5
xr 15*, pxv 6.5
og burner triangle rescue tour 18*, s300
j40 dpc 4-9, s300
vokey sm6 46/08F 50/08F 54/08M 58/04L, s200
fitted edel

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#50 Golf&MMA

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 12:48 PM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 09 April 2018 - 12:20 PM, said:

View Postbluedot, on 09 April 2018 - 11:24 AM, said:

View Postppauls1978, on 08 April 2018 - 06:21 PM, said:

Looking at the bags of the top players at my club - most of them play stock clubs.  The top golfers I play with have never been fitted.

Some of them don't even know what shaft is in their drivers....  Some of them even have mis matched wedges! The horror!

They don't know the difference between cast and forged and don't even have putter head covers....

I have a question.

When you look at the bag of another player and see their clubs, how do you know whether they were fitted or bought the clubs off the rack?  How do you know that their clubs aren't an inch longer, or a half inch shorter, or a degree flat, or two degrees upright?  Does a particular hosel setting count as fitted, or off the rack?  Does self-fitting on a monitor count, or only working with a clubfitter?  

Great question.  I'm not trying to use myself as an example, but my j40s are 3* upright and they were a relatively obscure iron when they came out.  Can you tell they are 3* upright by looking at them?  That's a hell of a talent, if so.

The stock steel shaft in the j40 DPC was the KBS Tour 90.  I use a very common dynamic gold shaft that is stock in a ton of clubs (but NOT the j40).  Is that considered "stock" for the purposes of your comment?

Edit -

Nobody is "mad", we just don't like people talking absolute nonsense where beginners read it and might actually think its meritorious.


Why is it absolute nonsense?


There seems to be a lot of people on this post with the same feeling as the original post. I think the nonsense is telling beginners to spend more money on things that have such a tiny difference on their game. And people wonder why the game is slowly dying and young people don't want to get involved......most can't afford it.


I'd love to see some of the older PGA players(Gary Player, Jack Nicklaus, guys like that) give their opinion on a topic like this.

Edited by Golf&MMA, 09 April 2018 - 12:54 PM.


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#51 Belmont148

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 12:59 PM

Isn't this the expensive clubs vs better player thread 2.0? I think what many people don't get are some people like to play around with equipment and some just like to play. This can be said for any activity. No matter what it is I have done, I enjoyed the process of buying equipment, trying different things, custom tuning, cleaning, repairing, etc. whether it was fishing, hunting, golf, atvs, etc. some guys like the process some just like to play and are happy to walk up to a counter, buy some stuff, go play and never think twice. Sounds like you might have a lot of folks at your club that just aren't interested in working with their hands, never get curious about things, and are just used to swiping a card through life. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't mean that is why they are better players.
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Cobra F7+ Driver 10.5 Aldila Rogue 125 Silver TS 44.5"
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F6 Baffler 5w Aldila Rogue Black 70 stiff
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Mizuno MP15 5-PW Project X LZ 5.5
MD2 Tour 52* and 58* S200/300
PM Grind MD3 64* KBS 610
Scotty Studio Stainless Newport 2

Alternates:
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PM Grind MD3 60* KBS Wedge

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#52 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:03 PM

View PostGolf&MMA, on 09 April 2018 - 12:48 PM, said:

Why is it absolute nonsense?

Because you can't tell if something is stock by watching someone play with it.  I'm not saying "people overestimate the value of equipment" is nonsense I'm saying you being able to tell if a "good player" you're playing with has a stock bag is nonsense.

You can't tell lie angle, length, shaft... really, anything.  If I tee'd off next to you, you can remember the stock shaft for my j40 DPCs was the KBS Tour 90 (i play s300, not stock) ?  You'd probably see the s300 shaft label, nod to yourself, and think "yup, stock".  No, not stock.  j40s shipped with only KBS.  You can tell from looking my irons are 3* upright?  You can tell my driver is 44.4" ?  You can tell I play a midsize grip on just my driver?  You can tell my putter comes 69*, but its bent to 65*?  I play a Project X 6.5 in both driver and 3 wood.  It was stock in the 3 wood (xhot) but not in the driver (Aeroburner had a OEM Matrix shaft).

You're just full of it.

Edited by pinestreetgolf, 09 April 2018 - 01:07 PM.

aeroburner tp 9.5*, pxv 6.5
xr 15*, pxv 6.5
og burner triangle rescue tour 18*, s300
j40 dpc 4-9, s300
vokey sm6 46/08F 50/08F 54/08M 58/04L, s200
fitted edel

22

#53 ppauls1978

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:05 PM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 09 April 2018 - 12:20 PM, said:

View Postbluedot, on 09 April 2018 - 11:24 AM, said:

View Postppauls1978, on 08 April 2018 - 06:21 PM, said:

Looking at the bags of the top players at my club - most of them play stock clubs.  The top golfers I play with have never been fitted.

Some of them don't even know what shaft is in their drivers....  Some of them even have mis matched wedges! The horror!

They don't know the difference between cast and forged and don't even have putter head covers....

I have a question.

When you look at the bag of another player and see their clubs, how do you know whether they were fitted or bought the clubs off the rack?  How do you know that their clubs aren't an inch longer, or a half inch shorter, or a degree flat, or two degrees upright?  Does a particular hosel setting count as fitted, or off the rack?  Does self-fitting on a monitor count, or only working with a clubfitter?  

Great question.  I'm not trying to use myself as an example, but my j40s are 3* upright and they were a relatively obscure iron when they came out.  Can you tell they are 3* upright by looking at them?  That's a hell of a talent, if so.

The stock steel shaft in the j40 DPC was the KBS Tour 90.  I use a very common dynamic gold shaft that is stock in a ton of clubs (but NOT the j40).  Is that considered "stock" for the purposes of your comment?

Edit -

Nobody is "mad", we just don't like people talking absolute nonsense where beginners read it and might actually think its meritorious.

why is it nonsense?? It's a discussion.  Something I noticed.  And yes I asked my partners "where did you get your clubs?" "did you get fit?" and we do talk about equipment.

The better players I play with have all stock items.

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#54 ppauls1978

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:06 PM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 09 April 2018 - 01:03 PM, said:

View PostGolf&MMA, on 09 April 2018 - 12:48 PM, said:

Why is it absolute nonsense?

Because you can't tell if something is stock by watching someone play with it.  I'm not saying "people overestimate the value of equipment" is nonsense I'm saying you being able to tell if a "good player" you're playing with has a stock bag is nonsense.

You can't tell lie angle, length, shaft... really, anything.  If I tee'd off next to you, you can remember the stock shaft for my j40 DPCs was the KBS Tour 90 (i play s300, not stock) ?  You'd probably see the s300 shaft label, nod to yourself, and think "yup, stock".  No, not stock.  j40s shipped with only KBS.  You can tell from looking my irons are 3* upright?  You can tell my driver is 44.4" ?  You can tell I play a midsize grip on just my driver?  You can tell my putter comes 69*, but its bent to 65*?

You're just full of it.

I asked like I've said 10 times already.

Sorry to start the discussion. pinestreetgolf you seem to get worked up over small things.

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#55 Golf&MMA

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:07 PM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 09 April 2018 - 01:03 PM, said:

View PostGolf&MMA, on 09 April 2018 - 12:48 PM, said:

Why is it absolute nonsense?

Because you can't tell if something is stock by watching someone play with it.  I'm not saying "people overestimate the value of equipment" is nonsense I'm saying you being able to tell if a "good player" you're playing with has a stock bag is nonsense.

You can't tell lie angle, length, shaft... really, anything.  If I tee'd off next to you, you can remember the stock shaft for my j40 DPCs was the KBS Tour 90 (i play s300, not stock) ?  You'd probably see the s300 shaft label, nod to yourself, and think "yup, stock".  No, not stock.  j40s shipped with only KBS.  You can tell from looking my irons are 3* upright?  You can tell my driver is 44.4" ?  You can tell I play a midsize grip on just my driver?  You can tell my putter comes 69*, but its bent to 65*?

You're just full of it.


Ah okay, I agree with you on that. I misinterpreted what you were saying is nonsense.


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#56 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:11 PM

View Postppauls1978, on 09 April 2018 - 01:06 PM, said:

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 09 April 2018 - 01:03 PM, said:

View PostGolf&MMA, on 09 April 2018 - 12:48 PM, said:

Why is it absolute nonsense?

Because you can't tell if something is stock by watching someone play with it.  I'm not saying "people overestimate the value of equipment" is nonsense I'm saying you being able to tell if a "good player" you're playing with has a stock bag is nonsense.

You can't tell lie angle, length, shaft... really, anything.  If I tee'd off next to you, you can remember the stock shaft for my j40 DPCs was the KBS Tour 90 (i play s300, not stock) ?  You'd probably see the s300 shaft label, nod to yourself, and think "yup, stock".  No, not stock.  j40s shipped with only KBS.  You can tell from looking my irons are 3* upright?  You can tell my driver is 44.4" ?  You can tell I play a midsize grip on just my driver?  You can tell my putter comes 69*, but its bent to 65*?

You're just full of it.

I asked like I've said 10 times already.

Sorry to start the discussion. pinestreetgolf you seem to get worked up over small things.

Yep, I do.

Because golf is nothing but small things.  That's all it is.  Routine.  Doing all the little things right.  A ton of small things, over and over, that make a score.

And when you tell a new player to just say "Screw it, equipment doesn't matter" and take out a little edge with the driver, a little edge with the irons, a little edge with the putter - over significant rounds - they play worse and they have less fun.

There are no eureka moments. Its a fantasy.  Incremental improvement of mechanics, mentality, management and equipment is how bad players get better, and threads like this that send the message that small amounts of improvement (in any area) are irrelevant are damaging if they are believed, because so many sports don't function like golf does in this respect.  There is no opponent.  In other sports, a tiny improvement doesn't help you beat Kevin Durant - you still get slaughtered.  In golf, every single tiny edge matters because your opponent - the golf course - is a constant.

So stop telling people garbage about how "top players" don't use custom, fitted equipment or that equipment upgrades are irrelevant to score.  It might not be AS relevant as something else BUT, since there is no opponent, everything is relevant.  New players tend to not understand this, because they are used to sports with an opponent.

Every little thing matters.

Edited by pinestreetgolf, 09 April 2018 - 01:14 PM.

aeroburner tp 9.5*, pxv 6.5
xr 15*, pxv 6.5
og burner triangle rescue tour 18*, s300
j40 dpc 4-9, s300
vokey sm6 46/08F 50/08F 54/08M 58/04L, s200
fitted edel

26

#57 bazinky

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:14 PM

Good players really only need a "good" fit. For most of them, chasing the perfect fit probably does more harm than good and you can probably get a good fit with stock options unless you really fall outside the norms.

Great players (Professionals and national caliber competitive ams) are the ones that need need a "great" fit. The difference between success and failure at those levels is so small that you can't give up any competitive advantage to your competition. Plus they have the time to get confident in a club or shaft change quickly.

Just my opinion, of course.
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#58 rawdog

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:19 PM

View PostStonewalled, on 08 April 2018 - 10:02 PM, said:

View Postohioglfr, on 08 April 2018 - 07:01 PM, said:

Is this the club house?

Posted Image

Looks like the Head pro in the picture didn't want to miss the Master's coverage.

Pretty sweet turf on the stairs as well.  

Lots of green and white, the National's Trademark Infringement lawyer's are going to have a field day with this guy. :shok:

Front steps double as the practice green.

More money for bunker renovations that way.

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#59 Jut

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 02:29 PM

Not really sure I comprehend why the op is taking a beating on this one.  He merely made an observation (based on seeing the clubs in his friends' bags and asking them about said clubs) - when I reread his original post not once did I see anything that said, "you should not get fit" or "getting fit is a waste of $" or "top players don't use custom, fitted equipment".

It seems that some angry persons who are 'trying to protect new members' are just looking for an excuse to flex some internet muscle or be contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.

Who's protecting these newbies from 'driver vs. 3 wood' threads and 'blades vs. cavity back' threads and '3 wedges or 4 wedges' threads?  The horror.
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#60 Z1ggy16

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 02:34 PM

View Postppauls1978, on 08 April 2018 - 06:21 PM, said:

Looking at the bags of the top players at my club - most of them play stock clubs.  The top golfers I play with have never been fitted.

Some of them don't even know what shaft is in their drivers....  Some of them even have mis matched wedges! The horror!

They don't know the difference between cast and forged and don't even have putter head covers....
Because 90% of the world doesn't know about GolfWRX. They know what the OEMs tell them they should know. Plus, other than some driver tech, over the past 15 years not that much has changed with irons, wedges, etc. A good player could go 75 with some Ping shovels from the 80's probably.

Although I will say, if you aren't getting fit you could be leaving something on the table. The stock vs custom shaft is up for debate now as a lot of the OEM's offer up quality stuff as stock (Cobra with 2KXV for example). I gained about 40 yards on my driver from being fit, and that's no joke.

Edited by Z1ggy16, 09 April 2018 - 02:40 PM.

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