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How do you address scoring issues?


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#1 bwbw

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 09:07 AM

Here's some background:

My daughter and I have had issues with one player having her score right since we started playing with her.  It came to a head in a tournament last summer when I very directly called them out on it mid round.  The typical pattern is the player would ask my daughter for her score, and the girl would say she had the same thing or even a stroke better.  A lot of times it was not the case.  One hole I remember she shaved 3 strokes off of her score.

Needless to say, there has been some bad blood since last summer.

We were paired with them this past Saturday.  Being Easter weekend, I just decided that no matter what, no issues were worth tension on the course for my daughter, the other player, or my own blood pressure.  I counted two penalties that were not called (again, I did not want to stir the pot) and a stroke on two different holes that they were off.  Now, I really believe that the strokes were honest mistakes in counting this time.  They were trying very hard to be correct.  But, it was incorrect.  I chose not to say anything on either one.

My daughter ended up losing to her by 1 stroke.  It frustrated my daughter that I did not say anything.  I simply told her that I was choosing my battles, and today was not the day I wanted to do that.  Plus, had my daughter not duffed so many iron shots it would not have mattered.

But, how have you all handled this, especially with players that have a habit of doing this?  I work very hard on teaching my daughter how to keep her own score, and at 12, she's pretty good at it.  She's not really good at keeping her opponents score yet, though.


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#2 heavy_hitter

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 09:19 AM

View Postbwbw, on 02 April 2018 - 09:07 AM, said:

Here's some background:

My daughter and I have had issues with one player having her score right since we started playing with her.  It came to a head in a tournament last summer when I very directly called them out on it mid round.  The typical pattern is the player would ask my daughter for her score, and the girl would say she had the same thing or even a stroke better.  A lot of times it was not the case.  One hole I remember she shaved 3 strokes off of her score.

Needless to say, there has been some bad blood since last summer.

We were paired with them this past Saturday.  Being Easter weekend, I just decided that no matter what, no issues were worth tension on the course for my daughter, the other player, or my own blood pressure.  I counted two penalties that were not called (again, I did not want to stir the pot) and a stroke on two different holes that they were off.  Now, I really believe that the strokes were honest mistakes in counting this time.  They were trying very hard to be correct.  But, it was incorrect.  I chose not to say anything on either one.

My daughter ended up losing to her by 1 stroke.  It frustrated my daughter that I did not say anything.  I simply told her that I was choosing my battles, and today was not the day I wanted to do that.  Plus, had my daughter not duffed so many iron shots it would not have mattered.

But, how have you all handled this, especially with players that have a habit of doing this?  I work very hard on teaching my daughter how to keep her own score, and at 12, she's pretty good at it.  She's not really good at keeping her opponents score yet, though.


It is her job to call them out, not your job.  Even if you catch it, it is still her job to talk to her opponent about it.  It is also her job to protect the integrity of the field.  It seems as though you feel bad for calling someone out.  You didn’t make the mistake and it is the job of the field to protect the field.

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#3 BrianMcG

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 09:21 AM

It’s your daughters responsibility to bring it up as the player keeping the score.

I had the same thing happen when I was a junior. One kid in our group hit at least three balls ob and two in the water through the round.

When cards were turned in he posted a 75. I asked the player who kept his score and he just shrugged his shoulders.

But every time from then on I’d warn his playing partners he cheats. He got a bad reputation pretty quick as that wasn’t his first time.

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#4 jslane57

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 09:34 AM

That's tough. I think you may want to tell your daughter that you overstepped when doing the calling out the mistake the first time as it is the marker's role to do so in the future, so it won't happen again. The time to do so is on the next tee when counting up scores, a simple, "let's go over that hole again" works, again, by the marker. I also think any parent is overstepping when saying anything to unknown playing partners about a person's integrity. As a parent I didn't always appreciate junior golf associations that didn't allow parents to be with the player, but these are among the reasons. Keeping score is every bit part of golf as the golf itself, and must be learned through trial and error...

Edited by jslane57, 02 April 2018 - 09:39 AM.

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#5 hangontight

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 09:52 AM

How old is your daughter?


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#6 bwbw

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 09:57 AM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 02 April 2018 - 09:19 AM, said:

It is her job to call them out, not your job.  Even if you catch it, it is still her job to talk to her opponent about it.  It is also her job to protect the integrity of the field.  It seems as though you feel bad for calling someone out.  You didn’t make the mistake and it is the job of the field to protect the field.

Trust me, I've had no problem in calling this person out.  Until Saturday, they had been called out 3-4 times a round.

I am working on getting my daughter to count better and pay attention.  She's just not good at it.  Last summer she played in a series of tournaments that I could not have any contact.  That's when I learned just how bad she was at it.  My daughter gets hyper focused on what she's going to do and has a habit of not watching what her playing opponent is doing.  I'm hoping this summer, without me helping her, it forces her to pay more attention.

View Posthangontight, on 02 April 2018 - 09:52 AM, said:

How old is your daughter?

12

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#7 Belmont148

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 10:24 AM

It can be tough with kids as they get caught up in there own game and the markers can be playing up to the green on opposite sides of the course. We always made a habit of retracing once we got up to the green before any chips or putts were made. It only takes a second and is much easier to retrace back to the tee box before getting wrapped up in green reading. From there the score is pretty easy to verify before teeing up on the next. I would train your daughter to try that and really make her focus on her partner while in the fairway, etc. and watch her partner hit her approach shots to keep up with the score from tee to green. Then the group will all be on the green and nothing can be disputed from there once the current shots are brought up. But like others have said, she needs to be keeping up with the score.

If the player hits it close to a hazard, or perhaps an unplayable lie there is nothing wrong with walking over and watching. Players should be calling out provisionals and drops and get acknowledgment prior to doing so as well. A good habit to get into.
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#8 Hateto3Putt

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 11:11 AM

"So, Julie, you two putted for a 5, and Kelly, with that lost ball you got a 7"

<silence>

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#9 propredicr

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 01:15 PM

Always Protect the field.  They sell those little clickers or beads, she can use.   I told my kid, I want him to be counting all his playing partners strokes.   Some kids are more diligent than others,  and occassionally, everyone makes a mistake.   Especially, on stroke counts over double bogey.

It’s especially tough when your kid is shooting 70-80 and is paired wifh someone shooting 110-120.  But, that is part of the game that must be learned; handling adversity.

Be assertive, early!   Call out their score and say, I got you for a 7 (par 5).   Don’t allow the player to give some made up score and then your kid has to argue the score.   If the other player knows they shaved or that your kid actually pays attention and is honest it will make the kid in question pay more attention and perhaps stop the frowned upon behavior.

Unfortunately, there will always be cheats, as there are always sandbagger.  Handle what you can control, do your part to protect the field and stay positive.  


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#10 leezer99

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 01:41 PM

Here we have another issue on our tour...

Our local tour is kids only with no caddies.  Parents can spectate walking along the cart path or rough but aren't allowed to speak to the players unless it's for safety or snacks.  We also have a large contingent of kids that speak multiple languages.  What happens all too often is a parent will 'ask' their child if they want a snack in their native language but all of a sudden the kid will go back to the bag and grab another club or take a drop differently than they were originally intending.  Happened just this past weekend when a kid hit his ball in the water and was about to take a drop near where it went in which was some unappealing rough... dad says something in another language and then the kid looks back at him.  The kid then ends up going back in line with the hole and where the ball went in the water to the fairway after lasering a yardage and took his drop from there.  I know what he did is a perfectly legal drop but he wouldn't have done that if dad hadn't asked him if he wanted a snack.  Even if you say something the parents just deny they are helping.


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#11 davep043

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 01:48 PM

I'm a guy with no children, so take my advice for whatever its worth (or not worth).  In my opinion, its the responsibility of the player (your daughter) to keep her own score accurately, and to attest that her Fellow-competitor's score is accurate too.  Its simply something she needs to learn to do better, as you've said already.  Its also her responsibility to be able to get the right score without your assistance, to learn to work through the shots her FC has taken on a hole to come to the correct number.  This isn't your job, nor should she be looking to you to take care of this on her behalf.  If she's frustrated at losing because the scores were wrong, she needs to learn to (politely) question the other player's score when it doesn't seem right to her.  Conflict resolution is something we all need to learn sometime, this is a good stop to start.

You don't mention the other girl's parents as being part of the discussion, although you do use "they" and "them" a couple of times, so I assume they're around as well.  Perhaps you could work with them to help both your daughters, or maybe you're already become "that guy" and won't get any help.  I hate the term "calling them out", that suggests to me that you've directly accused the other girl of cheating.  If you approach whatever your next steps with the outward attitude of "just trying to make sure the scores are right" that's got to have a better chance of success than "calling them out".

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#12 heavy_hitter

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 01:54 PM

View Postleezer99, on 02 April 2018 - 01:41 PM, said:

Here we have another issue on our tour...

Our local tour is kids only with no caddies.  Parents can spectate walking along the cart path or rough but aren't allowed to speak to the players unless it's for safety or snacks.  We also have a large contingent of kids that speak multiple languages.  What happens all too often is a parent will 'ask' their child if they want a snack in their native language but all of a sudden the kid will go back to the bag and grab another club or take a drop differently than they were originally intending.  Happened just this past weekend when a kid hit his ball in the water and was about to take a drop near where it went in which was some unappealing rough... dad says something in another language and then the kid looks back at him.  The kid then ends up going back in line with the hole and where the ball went in the water to the fairway after lasering a yardage and took his drop from there.  I know what he did is a perfectly legal drop but he wouldn't have done that if dad hadn't asked him if he wanted a snack.  Even if you say something the parents just deny they are helping.

Have seen this happen on countless occasions when the parents know affluent English.  I just look at them and tell them when they address their kids they need to speak in English.  I let them know that if they don't then I will call a tournament official to talk to them.  They then say "I was asking them if they wanted water." (or whatever the excuse).  I then say "See, you can ask them in English.".  This is them coaching, teaching, caddying for their kids.  Just put an end to it the first time it happens.

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#13 heavy_hitter

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 02:00 PM

View Postdavep043, on 02 April 2018 - 01:48 PM, said:

I'm a guy with no children, so take my advice for whatever its worth (or not worth).  In my opinion, its the responsibility of the player (your daughter) to keep her own score accurately, and to attest that her Fellow-competitor's score is accurate too.  Its simply something she needs to learn to do better, as you've said already.  Its also her responsibility to be able to get the right score without your assistance, to learn to work through the shots her FC has taken on a hole to come to the correct number.  This isn't your job, nor should she be looking to you to take care of this on her behalf.  If she's frustrated at losing because the scores were wrong, she needs to learn to (politely) question the other player's score when it doesn't seem right to her.  Conflict resolution is something we all need to learn sometime, this is a good stop to start.

You don't mention the other girl's parents as being part of the discussion, although you do use "they" and "them" a couple of times, so I assume they're around as well.  Perhaps you could work with them to help both your daughters, or maybe you're already become "that guy" and won't get any help.  I hate the term "calling them out", that suggests to me that you've directly accused the other girl of cheating.  If you approach whatever your next steps with the outward attitude of "just trying to make sure the scores are right" that's got to have a better chance of success than "calling them out".

"Calling them out" is just a term.  You are right, there are better terms.

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#14 cardoustie

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 02:03 PM

From my understanding from my nephew's past playing in CJGA and AJGA events, and other buddies sons  .. it is a PERVASIVE problem even with 17 and 18 year olds.  Golf scholarships seem to be the end goal and damn the torpedoes on following the rules.

Wrong scores reported, parents dropping balls in the rough etc

Your daughter has to learn to track the one kid she is scoring for and has to learn how to politely say "that's not what I had you for, let's go over it."   Hopefully she can then move on to tracking her whole group

FWIW, this actually happened to me in university golf.  Had to call a kid out twice within 9 holes in a big event, very annoying.  Myself and the third in the group told his coach afterwards as well - as the kid was a total DB.   I think he was booted as I didn't see him in events after that

It can also throw off your focus from playing your game to being a monitor of someone else's game.

Even today, we have guys at my club that are caught cheating in club events (preferring lies, reporting wrong score etc etc)  ... it's pretty sad when a 40 year old grown male wants to win a $200 gift cert that badly
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#15 Guia

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 02:04 PM

You need to make the correction immediately.  Before she gives you a score, just say "Mary, I have you for a 7", she will know you are watching and that should take care of her cheating.


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#16 bwbw

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 02:33 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 02 April 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

View Postdavep043, on 02 April 2018 - 01:48 PM, said:

I'm a guy with no children, so take my advice for whatever its worth (or not worth).  In my opinion, its the responsibility of the player (your daughter) to keep her own score accurately, and to attest that her Fellow-competitor's score is accurate too.  Its simply something she needs to learn to do better, as you've said already.  Its also her responsibility to be able to get the right score without your assistance, to learn to work through the shots her FC has taken on a hole to come to the correct number.  This isn't your job, nor should she be looking to you to take care of this on her behalf.  If she's frustrated at losing because the scores were wrong, she needs to learn to (politely) question the other player's score when it doesn't seem right to her.  Conflict resolution is something we all need to learn sometime, this is a good stop to start.

You don't mention the other girl's parents as being part of the discussion, although you do use "they" and "them" a couple of times, so I assume they're around as well.  Perhaps you could work with them to help both your daughters, or maybe you're already become "that guy" and won't get any help.  I hate the term "calling them out", that suggests to me that you've directly accused the other girl of cheating.  If you approach whatever your next steps with the outward attitude of "just trying to make sure the scores are right" that's got to have a better chance of success than "calling them out".

"Calling them out" is just a term.  You are right, there are better terms.

Yes, there are better terms.  And yes, the other parent is around, and we all have questioned them multiple times.  They do have that reputation and everyone watches what is happening (with the obvious exception of my daughter, obviously).  My personality of that is very direct.  I'm a nice guy, but when push comes to shove, I'm very direct.  Not mean, but I am going to get to the point and move on.  When the issue happened last year, I first asked them to recount the hole.  When they did not and simply stated the score, I recounted each stroke for them.  It was a 2 stroke difference than what they had.  As my wife reminded me, my tone is probably a bit gruff in situations like this.  But after correct 4-5 holes a round, and constantly seeing it, I was not relenting on this one.

I will say that I think this weekend was not blatant cheating.  I do think they were honest mistakes.  And yes, I was caddying.  I'm very aware of what happens on the course.  And it is tough when the competitor is across the fairway, or to where you cannot see what is really happening.  They (the player and parent) were working very hard on making sure they got things right, even asking about how things play out with drops, etc.

The reason I did not say anything this week was very simple:  The other parent was being pleasant, the girls were walking together and having fun, and honestly, neither were competing for 1st place.  Their play the front 9 took them out of it.  It did make a difference in the standing between the two girls, but did not affect the top positions.

I think I'm going to have to go play rounds with my daughter and make her keep both of our scores more.  I did this some last summer to get her to start paying attention.  Sounds like I need to do that more.

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#17 tiger1873

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 02:35 PM

I can understand your frustration. You need to protect the field but that the same time you need to make tournaments bearable to play. The goal of these parents are to run off your kids because they know your kids will beat them eventually.

Best Advice I could give is have your daughter concentrate on getting better. If it's a low level tournament no one will care next week about the score. So keep that in perspective.  Once the kids get better and parents can't caddy the kids are toast that fudge their scores.  Look at this way at certain level lots of people are watching them and there not going to get away with low scores to win.

Lots of good advice here and you should confront them and if you can report them to the tour directory. If that doesn't work move on to better tournaments.

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#18 heavy_hitter

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 02:37 PM

View Postcardoustie, on 02 April 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

From my understanding from my nephew's past playing in CJGA and AJGA events, and other buddies sons  .. it is a PERVASIVE problem even with 17 and 18 year olds.  Golf scholarships seem to be the end goal and damn the torpedoes on following the rules.

Wrong scores reported, parents dropping balls in the rough etc

Your daughter has to learn to track the one kid she is scoring for and has to learn how to politely say "that's not what I had you for, let's go over it."   Hopefully she can then move on to tracking her whole group

FWIW, this actually happened to me in university golf.  Had to call a kid out twice within 9 holes in a big event, very annoying.  Myself and the third in the group told his coach afterwards as well - as the kid was a total DB.   I think he was booted as I didn't see him in events after that

It can also throw off your focus from playing your game to being a monitor of someone else's game.

Even today, we have guys at my club that are caught cheating in club events (preferring lies, reporting wrong score etc etc)  ... it's pretty sad when a 40 year old grown male wants to win a $200 gift cert that badly

I know of a male player at a school this year that was kicked off of his team for cheating in qualifying.  Coach caught him twice and that was it.

I know a local girl that gets "Called Out" all of the time because it happens often.  As she plays against better talent and those girls aren't having to count 120 of their own strokes, her scores have gotten higher because she is "Called Out".  

My son's friend for a while, I would say a string of at least 5 tournaments, always had a scoring dispute at the scorer's table after every single round.  I finally called him out and said "Do you think the problem is you or the other kids, because it is always someone different.  You need to take a look in the mirror and figure out if you want to be known as the kid trying to shave a stroke.  In the long run it catches up to you."  His dad was in the car and really didn't say anything about my comment.  The kid hasn't had a dispute since.

My daughter played in the State High School Championships either her freshman or sophomore year of high school.  They were paired against their rival team from their district and region.  She was playing number 4.  The other team had a great first 3 players and the other two were 90-100 golfers.  This girl on the other team would always try to finish out first, then she would quickly go to her cart and start running to the next hole to tee off before the other girls got there.  On the 3rd hole of the day they figured out why and from then on wouldn't let her finish out.  As they were walking to the tee box, this girl tees off and there is no way this ball is in play.  This hole is a dog leg right where forest cuts into the dog leg.  This forest is 50 yards wide where it doglegs and is 180 yards out.  There is a big opening after the dogleg which is about a 230 yard carry.  This girl barely hits the ball 200.  They watched and heard the ball crack trees.  They all finish teeing off and walk around the dog leg where her coach is mysteriously standing next to her ball.  From that point on they told the girl they would be playing honors, which she never had the entire round.  They get to number 18 and again the coach cheats.  Par 5 with a narrowing of the fairway about 220 yards out with a creek running through that is wider on both sides of the fairway than in the middle.  9 out of 10 girls are laying up with a hybrid.  This girl goes driver and is in the creek.  My wife and I were about 50 yards away and watch it fall in.  We minding our own business and observing this girl and her coach.  They can't find the ball anywhere.  After about 10 minutes of looking around I turn my head to look at something.  As I turned back around the coach is standing 15 yards past the creek with a ball in tightly cut rough with a clean ball at his feet and his pocket hanging out from his shorts.  When I looked at him his face just turned beat red.  Since I didn't see it, I couldn't prove anything, but I know he pulled a ball from his pocket and dropped it there.  The very next day, the team was accused of the same exact thing and the school brought it to the officials attention.  The officials did nothing, because like I, they didn't physically see him drop the ball, but they knew he did it as did I.

I can go on and on of stories, but these are the best.  I guess that is probably why I am too quick to say "Call them out."

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#19 heavy_hitter

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 02:39 PM

View Postbwbw, on 02 April 2018 - 02:33 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 02 April 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

View Postdavep043, on 02 April 2018 - 01:48 PM, said:

I'm a guy with no children, so take my advice for whatever its worth (or not worth).  In my opinion, its the responsibility of the player (your daughter) to keep her own score accurately, and to attest that her Fellow-competitor's score is accurate too.  Its simply something she needs to learn to do better, as you've said already.  Its also her responsibility to be able to get the right score without your assistance, to learn to work through the shots her FC has taken on a hole to come to the correct number.  This isn't your job, nor should she be looking to you to take care of this on her behalf.  If she's frustrated at losing because the scores were wrong, she needs to learn to (politely) question the other player's score when it doesn't seem right to her.  Conflict resolution is something we all need to learn sometime, this is a good stop to start.

You don't mention the other girl's parents as being part of the discussion, although you do use "they" and "them" a couple of times, so I assume they're around as well.  Perhaps you could work with them to help both your daughters, or maybe you're already become "that guy" and won't get any help.  I hate the term "calling them out", that suggests to me that you've directly accused the other girl of cheating.  If you approach whatever your next steps with the outward attitude of "just trying to make sure the scores are right" that's got to have a better chance of success than "calling them out".

"Calling them out" is just a term.  You are right, there are better terms.

Yes, there are better terms.  And yes, the other parent is around, and we all have questioned them multiple times.  They do have that reputation and everyone watches what is happening (with the obvious exception of my daughter, obviously).  My personality of that is very direct.  I'm a nice guy, but when push comes to shove, I'm very direct.  Not mean, but I am going to get to the point and move on.  When the issue happened last year, I first asked them to recount the hole.  When they did not and simply stated the score, I recounted each stroke for them.  It was a 2 stroke difference than what they had.  As my wife reminded me, my tone is probably a bit gruff in situations like this.  But after correct 4-5 holes a round, and constantly seeing it, I was not relenting on this one.

I will say that I think this weekend was not blatant cheating.  I do think they were honest mistakes.  And yes, I was caddying.  I'm very aware of what happens on the course.  And it is tough when the competitor is across the fairway, or to where you cannot see what is really happening.  They (the player and parent) were working very hard on making sure they got things right, even asking about how things play out with drops, etc.

The reason I did not say anything this week was very simple:  The other parent was being pleasant, the girls were walking together and having fun, and honestly, neither were competing for 1st place.  Their play the front 9 took them out of it.  It did make a difference in the standing between the two girls, but did not affect the top positions.

I think I'm going to have to go play rounds with my daughter and make her keep both of our scores more.  I did this some last summer to get her to start paying attention.  Sounds like I need to do that more.

You sound like me.  I am the same way in that I am very direct which can come across as being an ahole.  I don't believe in being PC.

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#20 killer21

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 05:53 PM

(U.S. Kids 8-9 local event) I called a dad out for holding a small tree/bushes back while his daughter who was one of the favourites hit the ball out of the bushes, would have been a 10 for sure - she  was under trees and bushes in deep trouble.  He held back the bushes while she crept in and hit it out.  He played ignorant to the rule and said they would check after the round.  We got caught up in our own game and never revisited the issue as it took place on the second hole.  I didn't get much support from the other dad as he forgot as well.  She ended up taking a 6 and finishing 2nd ,  and my daughter finishes third, a shot behind.   It is a real issue and most of it is not on purpose though this dad should have known better as the player plays a lot and was a favourite so it would have been a nice upset.  Now I am just upset thinking about it.  (sorry it's still cold here!)

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#21 RP29

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 06:21 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 02 April 2018 - 01:54 PM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 02 April 2018 - 01:41 PM, said:

Here we have another issue on our tour...

Our local tour is kids only with no caddies.  Parents can spectate walking along the cart path or rough but aren't allowed to speak to the players unless it's for safety or snacks.  We also have a large contingent of kids that speak multiple languages.  What happens all too often is a parent will 'ask' their child if they want a snack in their native language but all of a sudden the kid will go back to the bag and grab another club or take a drop differently than they were originally intending.  Happened just this past weekend when a kid hit his ball in the water and was about to take a drop near where it went in which was some unappealing rough... dad says something in another language and then the kid looks back at him.  The kid then ends up going back in line with the hole and where the ball went in the water to the fairway after lasering a yardage and took his drop from there.  I know what he did is a perfectly legal drop but he wouldn't have done that if dad hadn't asked him if he wanted a snack.  Even if you say something the parents just deny they are helping.

Have seen this happen on countless occasions when the parents know affluent English.  I just look at them and tell them when they address their kids they need to speak in English.  I let them know that if they don't then I will call a tournament official to talk to them.  They then say "I was asking them if they wanted water." (or whatever the excuse).  I then say "See, you can ask them in English.".  This is them coaching, teaching, caddying for their kids.  Just put an end to it the first time it happens.

I'm not questionning the fact that it's wrong to circumvent the rules that way but man if you ever approached me that way I would politely ask you to leave policing to the rule officials.

I'll speak to my kids in whatever language I choose thank you very much 🙄
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#22 propredicr

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 06:42 PM

To HH point...
Go to any of the top Junior tourneys outside of USKG and verbal/non-verbal communications=potential for two stroke penalty.

From IMG Junior World email:
COMMUNICATING WITH PLAYERS

Spectators who need to talk with a player (for health reasons and handing them sunscreen, food or beverages, etc.) should do so in front of other spectators and/or players.

ADVICE

"Advice is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke."

General Penalty for a breach of Rule 8 is: loss of hole in Match Play; or two strokes in Stoke Play.

Please be aware of this rule and avoid talking to players as much as possible as it may be percieved as giving the player advice.

RULES OFFICIALS

Rules Officials are stationed on the course to assist players when they are unsure how they should proceed, to monitor pace of play, and for emergency situations. Players and spectators should notify an Official when someone needs assistance.

When an Official is assisting a player all spectators should stay at least 50 yards away and should not get involved in the conversation. Spectators will be brought into a situation only if asked by the Official.

Thankfully, for us,  our State Junior organization had foresight, most likely to avoid any potential situations.

“New in 2010, during tournament play, all verbal communication must be in English and must be heard by other spectators. Do not speak to juniors during the round except for a “good shot” and it must be done in English.”

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#23 RP29

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 06:53 PM

That is obscene. I must admit I haven't been to a Jr golf tournament since I was myself a participant. So I don't have a good barometer of how things transpire nowadays.

But that seems excessive and ridiculous to me... we're talking about young kids right?
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#24 leezer99

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 07:05 PM

View Postpropredicr, on 02 April 2018 - 06:42 PM, said:

To HH point...
Go to any of the top Junior tourneys outside of USKG and verbal/non-verbal communications=potential for two stroke penalty.

From IMG Junior World email:
COMMUNICATING WITH PLAYERS

Spectators who need to talk with a player (for health reasons and handing them sunscreen, food or beverages, etc.) should do so in front of other spectators and/or players.

ADVICE

"Advice is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke."

General Penalty for a breach of Rule 8 is: loss of hole in Match Play; or two strokes in Stoke Play.

Please be aware of this rule and avoid talking to players as much as possible as it may be percieved as giving the player advice.

RULES OFFICIALS

Rules Officials are stationed on the course to assist players when they are unsure how they should proceed, to monitor pace of play, and for emergency situations. Players and spectators should notify an Official when someone needs assistance.

When an Official is assisting a player all spectators should stay at least 50 yards away and should not get involved in the conversation. Spectators will be brought into a situation only if asked by the Official.

Thankfully, for us,  our State Junior organization had foresight, most likely to avoid any potential situations.

"New in 2010, during tournament play, all verbal communication must be in English and must be heard by other spectators. Do not speak to juniors during the round except for a "good shot" and it must be done in English."

Our problem is that the parents 'ask if they need a snack' in another language while the kid is on a par three tee with an iron and then the kid miraculously realizes they need a hybrid.

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#25 propredicr

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 07:05 PM

7-18 yo.

Leezer😲🤣.  You’re killin’ me!

Edited by propredicr, 02 April 2018 - 07:06 PM.


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#26 heavy_hitter

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 07:42 PM

View PostRP29, on 02 April 2018 - 06:53 PM, said:

That is obscene. I must admit I haven't been to a Jr golf tournament since I was myself a participant. So I don't have a good barometer of how things transpire nowadays.

But that seems excessive and ridiculous to me... we're talking about young kids right?

Doesn’t matter what age group and most tours are the same.  Your kid will get docked strokes up to the parent being removed from the course.  Parents are to use English and if they don’t like it, don’t play.

Edited by heavy_hitter, 02 April 2018 - 08:09 PM.


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#27 heavy_hitter

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 07:44 PM

View Postpropredicr, on 02 April 2018 - 07:05 PM, said:

7-18 yo.

Leezer&#4322866;&#4323619;.  You’re killin’ me!

I have seen it with Asian girls, a lot.  Girl has 3 wood out.  Tiger mom says something in their language.  Girls switches clubs to lay up.  Parent says something to Tiger mom and she replies “I was asking he if she wanted a sandwich.”

Edited by heavy_hitter, 03 April 2018 - 08:10 AM.


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#28 tiger1873

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 07:46 PM

View PostRP29, on 02 April 2018 - 06:53 PM, said:

That is obscene. I must admit I haven't been to a Jr golf tournament since I was myself a participant. So I don't have a good barometer of how things transpire nowadays.

But that seems excessive and ridiculous to me... we're talking about young kids right?

Once you start playing angainst kids from other countries the stakes get a lot higher for them. It causes a lot problems because there kids must win otherwise they go home. I think the kids should be banned from amature events if you get handouts like that. I pay for everything for my kids.

They really are not like most parents and you need to watch those parents a lot.  I also think if they want to play here they need to be able to communicate in English. If not the parents need to be quiet.



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#29 leezer99

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 08:05 PM

View Posttiger1873, on 02 April 2018 - 07:46 PM, said:

View PostRP29, on 02 April 2018 - 06:53 PM, said:

That is obscene. I must admit I haven't been to a Jr golf tournament since I was myself a participant. So I don't have a good barometer of how things transpire nowadays.

But that seems excessive and ridiculous to me... we're talking about young kids right?

Once you start playing angainst kids from other countries the stakes get a lot higher for them. It causes a lot problems because there kids must win otherwise they go home. I think the kids should be banned from amature events if you get handouts like that. I pay for everything for my kids.

They really are not like most parents and you need to watch those parents a lot.  I also think if they want to play here they need to be able to communicate in English. If not the parents need to be quiet.

Yep, played in the FCG worlds and it's crazy how many kids come to play from other countries.  So far my favorite kids are from Columbia.  I was talking to the parents of a Canadian Asian kid and they were basically touring the southern US going to every big tournament there was and they were in a group of about 8-10 kids doing the same.

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#30 tiger1873

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 08:46 AM

View Postleezer99, on 02 April 2018 - 08:05 PM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 02 April 2018 - 07:46 PM, said:

View PostRP29, on 02 April 2018 - 06:53 PM, said:

That is obscene. I must admit I haven't been to a Jr golf tournament since I was myself a participant. So I don't have a good barometer of how things transpire nowadays.

But that seems excessive and ridiculous to me... we're talking about young kids right?

Once you start playing angainst kids from other countries the stakes get a lot higher for them. It causes a lot problems because there kids must win otherwise they go home. I think the kids should be banned from amature events if you get handouts like that. I pay for everything for my kids.

They really are not like most parents and you need to watch those parents a lot.  I also think if they want to play here they need to be able to communicate in English. If not the parents need to be quiet.

Yep, played in the FCG worlds and it's crazy how many kids come to play from other countries.  So far my favorite kids are from Columbia.  I was talking to the parents of a Canadian Asian kid and they were basically touring the southern US going to every big tournament there was and they were in a group of about 8-10 kids doing the same.

I heard that the reason we have seen a decline in Tennis tournaments for junior kids if the foreign kids have basically taken over all the large events.  It's hard to compete against parents funded by their government to play in tournaments that increasing get expensive.  Lots of tournaments and even coaches look the other way because it's free money. Overtime it actually will decrease participation of the sport here in the US.  

I know Canada has a junior program that actually will pay money to the family for top junior golfers. It like that for a lot sports in other countries not only do you get a check and all your coaches and practice facilities are all paid for. Canada is not even the worst offender of this. Some of the asian countries are the worst offenders.  First time I seen a group of kids like it this it was very intimidating especially if you get paired up with a few of them in the same group. You have zero chance of winning those battles.


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