Jump to content

Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at GolfWRX such as viewing all the images, interacting with members, access to all forums and eligiblility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

- - - - -

What constitutes a golf course


  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#1 shotmark

shotmark

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 679 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 102090
  • Joined: 01/15/2010
  • Location:West Yorkshire, England.
  • Handicap:9
GolfWRX Likes : 264

Posted 12 March 2018 - 08:16 AM

Interesting thought.  We often see quotes about how many golf courses there are in the world, general consensus seems to be somewhere in the region of 30 to 35 thousand courses world wide.  What no one seems to mention in such discussions is what they actually class as a golf course.

Presumably crazy/mini golf courses, putting courses and pitch and putts aren't included so do they include what American's seem to call executive courses and do you include 6, 9, 12 hole courses.

As someone who has so far played just shy of three hundred courses worldwide here is my criteria;

1. Must be at least 18 holes.

2. A minimum of 5381 yards.  (SSS 66 or above based on length per the EGU)

3. 27 hole courses where there are three interchangeable 9's would be classed as three courses.

This is just the criteria I use when counting courses i've played and is by no means definitive.  I would be interested to hear what others class as a golf course and whether the governing bodies think there would be any mileage in setting out a standard.


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


1

#2 CMCSGolf

CMCSGolf

    Advanced

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 338 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 441076
  • Joined: 09/20/2016
GolfWRX Likes : 158

Posted 12 March 2018 - 11:46 AM

Very interesting thought and something I have considered myself.  I have come to different conclusions though.  First, I think points 1 and 3 are contradictory.  If a course must be 18 holes, how do you get 3 courses when there are only 27 holes? If 3 is true, a course can be 9 holes.

Really a golf course is anywhere that has holes in the ground, so I have counted some pretty rugged places in rural areas where the greens were basically dirt with some grass.  But if I'm hitting a ball in a field with a target, it's golf in by eyes.  If a course has 27 holes, I count it as 2 courses (one 18 hole track and one nine hole).  I have no minimum yardage and count par 3 courses  just the same as I would count Augusta.  I could never say the Preserve at Bandon Dunes is not a golf course.

The really tricky scenarios come up when an existing course is significantly altered.  I grew up in Cleveland and a nearby course (Sweetbriar) significantly altered their original 18 when they built a new 9 (and then 18).  Do I count the original course that was altered as a second course since half the holes changed?  I elected not to.  A nearby case where I probably would count a course twice is Valley of the Eagles.  The course was complete redone on top of an existing course.  While I haven't played it yet, I'm guessing it is different enough to constitute a new one.

2

#3 shotmark

shotmark

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 679 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 102090
  • Joined: 01/15/2010
  • Location:West Yorkshire, England.
  • Handicap:9
GolfWRX Likes : 264

Posted 12 March 2018 - 12:37 PM

View PostCMCSGolf, on 12 March 2018 - 11:46 AM, said:

Very interesting thought and something I have considered myself.  I have come to different conclusions though.  First, I think points 1 and 3 are contradictory.  If a course must be 18 holes, how do you get 3 courses when there are only 27 holes? If 3 is true, a course can be 9 holes.

Really a golf course is anywhere that has holes in the ground, so I have counted some pretty rugged places in rural areas where the greens were basically dirt with some grass.  But if I'm hitting a ball in a field with a target, it's golf in by eyes.  If a course has 27 holes, I count it as 2 courses (one 18 hole track and one nine hole).  I have no minimum yardage and count par 3 courses  just the same as I would count Augusta.  I could never say the Preserve at Bandon Dunes is not a golf course.

The really tricky scenarios come up when an existing course is significantly altered.  I grew up in Cleveland and a nearby course (Sweetbriar) significantly altered their original 18 when they built a new 9 (and then 18).  Do I count the original course that was altered as a second course since half the holes changed?  I elected not to.  A nearby case where I probably would count a course twice is Valley of the Eagles.  The course was complete redone on top of an existing course.  While I haven't played it yet, I'm guessing it is different enough to constitute a new one.

Re the 9 hole/27 hole argument, as I said I would only class it as three courses where the 9's are interchangeable.  For example Forest Park in North Yorkshire has an 18 hole and a 9 hole course.  Although any combination of the 9's could be used they only ever play it as two distinct courses with the 9 hole never combining with any 9 on the 18, so for me one 18 hole course.

Moor Allerton (Robert Trent Snr's only UK course) however has three 9 hole courses with can be and are combined to form three distinct 18 holers, so, for me three courses.

Re courses which have been changed then for me if there is at least one completely new (not remodelled or lengthened) hole, then it's a new course.

Edited by shotmark, 12 March 2018 - 12:38 PM.


3

#4 alfriday

alfriday

    Advanced

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 375 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 362505
  • Joined: 02/15/2015
  • Location:Iowa
GolfWRX Likes : 274

Posted 12 March 2018 - 01:28 PM

The National Golf Course Owners Association uses the following definition:

REGULATION GOLF COURSE: A Regulation Golf Course is defined as any nine-hole or 18-hole golf course that includes a variety of par three, par four and par five holes, and is of traditional length and par; a nine-hole facility must be at least 2,600 yards in length and at least par 33, and an 18-hole facility at least 5,200 yards in length and at least par 66.

​There are also a number of definitions for Alternative Courses that do not meet the "Regulation" definition.  

http://www.ngcoa.org...iew.asp?doc=511

4

#5 tatertot

tatertot

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,687 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 87030
  • Joined: 06/29/2009
GolfWRX Likes : 3215

Posted 12 March 2018 - 07:05 PM

View Postalfriday, on 12 March 2018 - 01:28 PM, said:

The National Golf Course Owners Association uses the following definition:

REGULATION GOLF COURSE: A Regulation Golf Course is defined as any nine-hole or 18-hole golf course that includes a variety of par three, par four and par five holes, and is of traditional length and par; a nine-hole facility must be at least 2,600 yards in length and at least par 33, and an 18-hole facility at least 5,200 yards in length and at least par 66.

​There are also a number of definitions for Alternative Courses that do not meet the "Regulation" definition.  

http://www.ngcoa.org...iew.asp?doc=511

That seems fairly black and white.

Driver: Adams Speedline Fast 11, 9°
Fairway: Adams Fast 10, 15*
Irons: Ping Eye2, 2-9 iron
Wedges: Titleist SM7, 48º; Titleist SM5, 54º & 58º
Putter: Cameron Mid Sur, 34"

5

#6 shotmark

shotmark

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 679 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 102090
  • Joined: 01/15/2010
  • Location:West Yorkshire, England.
  • Handicap:9
GolfWRX Likes : 264

Posted 13 March 2018 - 07:20 AM

View Posttatertot, on 12 March 2018 - 07:05 PM, said:

View Postalfriday, on 12 March 2018 - 01:28 PM, said:

The National Golf Course Owners Association uses the following definition:

REGULATION GOLF COURSE: A Regulation Golf Course is defined as any nine-hole or 18-hole golf course that includes a variety of par three, par four and par five holes, and is of traditional length and par; a nine-hole facility must be at least 2,600 yards in length and at least par 33, and an 18-hole facility at least 5,200 yards in length and at least par 66.

​There are also a number of definitions for Alternative Courses that do not meet the "Regulation" definition.  



http://www.ngcoa.org...iew.asp?doc=511

That seems fairly black and white.

It is in itself.  The NGCOA are an American only organisation and aren’t one of the regulatory bodies.  This is therefore just another opinion, like mine, rather than a definition.

6

#7 tatertot

tatertot

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,687 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 87030
  • Joined: 06/29/2009
GolfWRX Likes : 3215

Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:22 PM

View Postshotmark, on 13 March 2018 - 07:20 AM, said:

View Posttatertot, on 12 March 2018 - 07:05 PM, said:

View Postalfriday, on 12 March 2018 - 01:28 PM, said:

The National Golf Course Owners Association uses the following definition:

REGULATION GOLF COURSE: A Regulation Golf Course is defined as any nine-hole or 18-hole golf course that includes a variety of par three, par four and par five holes, and is of traditional length and par; a nine-hole facility must be at least 2,600 yards in length and at least par 33, and an 18-hole facility at least 5,200 yards in length and at least par 66.

​There are also a number of definitions for Alternative Courses that do not meet the "Regulation" definition.  



http://www.ngcoa.org...iew.asp?doc=511

That seems fairly black and white.

It is in itself.  The NGCOA are an American only organisation and aren’t one of the regulatory bodies.  This is therefore just another opinion, like mine, rather than a definition.

They're a professional association of golf course owners ... You're a guy who plays golf ... Two opinions, not equal weight.
Driver: Adams Speedline Fast 11, 9°
Fairway: Adams Fast 10, 15*
Irons: Ping Eye2, 2-9 iron
Wedges: Titleist SM7, 48º; Titleist SM5, 54º & 58º
Putter: Cameron Mid Sur, 34"

7

#8 ArtMBgolf

ArtMBgolf

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 187 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 476646
  • Joined: 07/27/2017
  • Location:Delaware
  • Handicap:8
GolfWRX Likes : 52

Posted 13 March 2018 - 09:20 PM

When I am counting courses for some reason, it's regulation courses.  
  
If it's a 27 hole course, I count it as 1.5 courses.  
If it's a 18 hole course and a 9 hole replay, it's 1 course for the count of unique courses played but 1.5 rounds played.

8

#9 AppAlum

AppAlum

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 632 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 121589
  • Joined: 02/02/2011
  • Location:Boone, NC
GolfWRX Likes : 291

Posted 13 March 2018 - 10:18 PM

Can’t describe it but I know it when I see it. Wait....

9

#10 CMCSGolf

CMCSGolf

    Advanced

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 338 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 441076
  • Joined: 09/20/2016
GolfWRX Likes : 158

Posted 14 March 2018 - 12:09 AM

This still seems very inconsistent to me.

How would you count courses that only have 9 holes?  To me, that is one course. If a property has three 9s that are relatively equal or rotated, it seems like you are padding you stats to count that as 3 separate courses.  If one of those 9s disappeared, I'm guessing no one would count those two nines as two courses.  Since 18 holes are the standard, it makes sense to me to use that as a the "unit" for one course.  

As for using length as a defining feature of what makes a course, I don't like that.  Would someone really arguing that the Preserve at Bandon Dunes is not a golf course? It's too good not to be a course in my eyes.


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


10

#11 thug the bunny

thug the bunny

    We are spirits in a material world

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,549 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 251822
  • Joined: 05/21/2013
  • Location:Jersey
  • Handicap:8.2
GolfWRX Likes : 12694

Posted 14 March 2018 - 12:48 AM

If you are using a golf swing with golf clubs and a golf ball to hit the ball into a little hole, it's a golf course. I remember when I was a very poor college student and had to decide over 'real' golf or food, me and a buddie or two would go to a park or ballfield and dig a hole in the ground and plant a stick in it and challenge each other, sometimes from over 200 yds out depending on the park. That's a golf course. I think these days we forget the roots of golf...
The absolute perfection of existence, life, and aesthetic beauty is the work not only of evolution but of a powerful being.

11

#12 shotmark

shotmark

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 679 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 102090
  • Joined: 01/15/2010
  • Location:West Yorkshire, England.
  • Handicap:9
GolfWRX Likes : 264

Posted 28 March 2018 - 12:52 PM

View PostCMCSGolf, on 14 March 2018 - 12:09 AM, said:

This still seems very inconsistent to me.

How would you count courses that only have 9 holes?  To me, that is one course. If a property has three 9s that are relatively equal or rotated, it seems like you are padding you stats to count that as 3 separate courses.  If one of those 9s disappeared, I'm guessing no one would count those two nines as two courses.  Since 18 holes are the standard, it makes sense to me to use that as a the "unit" for one course.  

As for using length as a defining feature of what makes a course, I don't like that.  Would someone really arguing that the Preserve at Bandon Dunes is not a golf course? It's too good not to be a course in my eyes.

A nine holer for me doesn't count at all.  I'm certainly not counting twenty seven hole courses as three to"pad my stats" as i've played many more 9 holes than 27 holes over the years.  Where a 27 hole course is played as three different courses ( a scorecard exists for each) then this is surely 3 different 18 hole courses.

As for the length criteria, you have to draw the line somewhere or you'd end up including pitch and putt courses.  Re The Preserve at Bandon Dunes, from what I understand this is a 13 hole par three course so, no it is absolutely NOT a golf course to me.  

Another interesting anomaly is Seaton Carew - England's 10th oldest course.  22 holes played as 5 distinct 18 hole courses so, yes, 5 courses for me.  

Most 36 hole courses play as two distinct 18 hole courses so i'd count these as two.  I have however come across one in France where the four 9's are combined giving 6 18 hole courses.

Edited by shotmark, 28 March 2018 - 12:54 PM.


12

#13 raynorfan1

raynorfan1

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,696 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 119065
  • Joined: 12/17/2010
GolfWRX Likes : 1413

Posted 28 March 2018 - 01:01 PM

It seems you take some pride in the raw number of "golf courses" that you've played. Whatever floats your boat.

To me, if it's got a regulation hole in the ground = golf course.

9 hole courses (in my book) absolutely count.

They're your "stats" - count however you want...

13

#14 CMCSGolf

CMCSGolf

    Advanced

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 338 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 441076
  • Joined: 09/20/2016
GolfWRX Likes : 158

Posted 28 March 2018 - 01:30 PM

I think we'll have to agree to disagree.  As Raynorfan says, it mine or your stats, so who really cares? I thing the Preserve is a fantastic golf course well worth playing every time.

One thing I will say is that with your last comment on the course in France, you are allowing the scorecard or the management's decision on how to group holes to define what a golf course is, rather than the experience of playing the game.  To me, a golf course is a place where I can hit a ball with a stick, regardless of how many different scorecards a GM can print.  You're correct that the line has to be drawn somewhere and for me that includes 9 hole and Par 3 courses..

14

#15 shotmark

shotmark

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 679 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 102090
  • Joined: 01/15/2010
  • Location:West Yorkshire, England.
  • Handicap:9
GolfWRX Likes : 264

Posted 29 March 2018 - 06:27 AM

View PostCMCSGolf, on 28 March 2018 - 01:30 PM, said:

I think we'll have to agree to disagree.  As Raynorfan says, it mine or your stats, so who really cares? I thing the Preserve is a fantastic golf course well worth playing every time.

One thing I will say is that with your last comment on the course in France, you are allowing the scorecard or the management's decision on how to group holes to define what a golf course is, rather than the experience of playing the game.  To me, a golf course is a place where I can hit a ball with a stick, regardless of how many different scorecards a GM can print.  You're correct that the line has to be drawn somewhere and for me that includes 9 hole and Par 3 courses..

As you say we'll have to agree to differ, but I still don't understand how , taking the french example, if I play in a comp where the course for the day is 1-9, 19-27.  I' played the same course as if I've played 1-18.

Similarly if I play 18 holes at Seaton Carew that include the Brabazon loop how have I played the same course as if i'd played 1-18?


15

#16 raynorfan1

raynorfan1

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,696 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 119065
  • Joined: 12/17/2010
GolfWRX Likes : 1413

Posted 29 March 2018 - 06:42 AM

How many “courses” is The Loop in your mind?

16

#17 shotmark

shotmark

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 679 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 102090
  • Joined: 01/15/2010
  • Location:West Yorkshire, England.
  • Handicap:9
GolfWRX Likes : 264

Posted 29 March 2018 - 07:12 AM

View Postraynorfan1, on 29 March 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:

How many "courses" is The Loop in your mind?

"The loop" is the additional four holes built in the '70s.  The 22 holes holes are - per the club's website used as 5 separate 18 hole combinations, so 5 courses.

I've only played one of the 5 myself.  This was on a Captain's trip several years ago and at the time I didn't even know there were 22 holes so not sure what combination I played.

17

#18 raynorfan1

raynorfan1

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,696 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 119065
  • Joined: 12/17/2010
GolfWRX Likes : 1413

Posted 29 March 2018 - 07:19 AM

View Postshotmark, on 29 March 2018 - 07:12 AM, said:

View Postraynorfan1, on 29 March 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:

How many "courses" is The Loop in your mind?

"The loop" is the additional four holes built in the '70s.  The 22 holes holes are - per the club's website used as 5 separate 18 hole combinations, so 5 courses.

I've only played one of the 5 myself.  This was on a Captain's trip several years ago and at the time I didn't even know there were 22 holes so not sure what combination I played.

Sorry, I meant the new course in Michigan that has 18 greensites and 18 tee boxes - but is designed to be played in both directions (clockwise and counterclockwise).

18

#19 CMCSGolf

CMCSGolf

    Advanced

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 338 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 441076
  • Joined: 09/20/2016
GolfWRX Likes : 158

Posted 29 March 2018 - 09:32 AM

View Postshotmark, on 29 March 2018 - 06:27 AM, said:

View PostCMCSGolf, on 28 March 2018 - 01:30 PM, said:

I think we'll have to agree to disagree.  As Raynorfan says, it mine or your stats, so who really cares? I thing the Preserve is a fantastic golf course well worth playing every time.

One thing I will say is that with your last comment on the course in France, you are allowing the scorecard or the management's decision on how to group holes to define what a golf course is, rather than the experience of playing the game.  To me, a golf course is a place where I can hit a ball with a stick, regardless of how many different scorecards a GM can print.  You're correct that the line has to be drawn somewhere and for me that includes 9 hole and Par 3 courses..

As you say we'll have to agree to differ, but I still don't understand how , taking the french example, if I play in a comp where the course for the day is 1-9, 19-27.  I' played the same course as if I've played 1-18.

Similarly if I play 18 holes at Seaton Carew that include the Brabazon loop how have I played the same course as if i'd played 1-18?

I'm not familiar with the specific example you noted, but I think you are playing the same holes.  In the 36 hole  complex that can be rearranged into 6 courses, there are still only 36 different holes on the property.  If any grouping of 18 holes constitutes a new course, then a property like Kingston Heath that has a 19th hole could theoretically be counted as 19 golf courses if the extra hole is substituted in for each of the normal 18.  A property with 36 holes could literally yield thousands of different "courses" if you adjust which holes are included.  I don't think these permutations are different courses because they are the same holes played in different groupings.

That is probably the key distinction between our definitions of a course: Can you count the same hole on two different courses.

19

#20 raynorfan1

raynorfan1

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,696 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 119065
  • Joined: 12/17/2010
GolfWRX Likes : 1413

Posted 29 March 2018 - 09:48 AM

View PostCMCSGolf, on 29 March 2018 - 09:32 AM, said:

View Postshotmark, on 29 March 2018 - 06:27 AM, said:

View PostCMCSGolf, on 28 March 2018 - 01:30 PM, said:

I think we'll have to agree to disagree.  As Raynorfan says, it mine or your stats, so who really cares? I thing the Preserve is a fantastic golf course well worth playing every time.

One thing I will say is that with your last comment on the course in France, you are allowing the scorecard or the management's decision on how to group holes to define what a golf course is, rather than the experience of playing the game.  To me, a golf course is a place where I can hit a ball with a stick, regardless of how many different scorecards a GM can print.  You're correct that the line has to be drawn somewhere and for me that includes 9 hole and Par 3 courses..

As you say we'll have to agree to differ, but I still don't understand how , taking the french example, if I play in a comp where the course for the day is 1-9, 19-27.  I' played the same course as if I've played 1-18.

Similarly if I play 18 holes at Seaton Carew that include the Brabazon loop how have I played the same course as if i'd played 1-18?

I'm not familiar with the specific example you noted, but I think you are playing the same holes.  In the 36 hole  complex that can be rearranged into 6 courses, there are still only 36 different holes on the property.  If any grouping of 18 holes constitutes a new course, then a property like Kingston Heath that has a 19th hole could theoretically be counted as 19 golf courses if the extra hole is substituted in for each of the normal 18.  A property with 36 holes could literally yield thousands of different "courses" if you adjust which holes are included.  I don't think these permutations are different courses because they are the same holes played in different groupings.

That is probably the key distinction between our definitions of a course: Can you count the same hole on two different courses.

I agree with this; my usual course has 27 holes, and there are at least 6 different 18 hole combinations that are commonly played (more if you consider different routings of the same 18 holes to be different courses).

It would feel strange to me if anybody declared this to be more or less than 2 courses (which is how we commonly think of it) - one 18 holes, and one 9 holes.


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


Wanna get rid of this ugly yellow box? And remove other annoying "stuff" in between posts? Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

20

#21 CMCSGolf

CMCSGolf

    Advanced

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 338 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 441076
  • Joined: 09/20/2016
GolfWRX Likes : 158

Posted 29 March 2018 - 10:44 AM

I agree, Raynor.  The Loop is a real conundrum for me.  By my very own definition, it should be one course since there are only 18 holes and I've read that Doak thinks of it as one course.  But the fact that you play to a green from a completely different angle makes it feel like a new hole.  I want to count it as two because I can easily see 36 holes out there, but with 18 greens that just doesn't feel right to me.  Once again, not the most important concern in golf today...

21

#22 raynorfan1

raynorfan1

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,696 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 119065
  • Joined: 12/17/2010
GolfWRX Likes : 1413

Posted 29 March 2018 - 10:59 AM

View PostCMCSGolf, on 29 March 2018 - 10:44 AM, said:

The Loop is a real conundrum for me.  By my very own definition, it should be one course since there are only 18 holes and I've read that Doak thinks of it as one course.

It would be a conundrum for me if I cared to keep track of *precisely* how many courses I had played. I'm inclined to say it's one course.

It's a little like the Royal Melbourne composite. If you've played the West, East, and Composite, how many courses have you played?

22

#23 shotmark

shotmark

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 679 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 102090
  • Joined: 01/15/2010
  • Location:West Yorkshire, England.
  • Handicap:9
GolfWRX Likes : 264

Posted 29 March 2018 - 11:38 AM

View Postraynorfan1, on 29 March 2018 - 07:19 AM, said:

View Postshotmark, on 29 March 2018 - 07:12 AM, said:

View Postraynorfan1, on 29 March 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:

How many "courses" is The Loop in your mind?

"The loop" is the additional four holes built in the '70s.  The 22 holes holes are - per the club's website used as 5 separate 18 hole combinations, so 5 courses.

I've only played one of the 5 myself.  This was on a Captain's trip several years ago and at the time I didn't even know there were 22 holes so not sure what combination I played.

Sorry, I meant the new course in Michigan that has 18 greensites and 18 tee boxes - but is designed to be played in both directions (clockwise and counterclockwise).

Just been on the Forest Dunes website as I wasn't familiar with the course.  The yardages from the back tees are different and if you're playing the hole from a totally different tee/direction then surely it's a different hole so again two courses for me.  Re your own course, from what you say although it's 27 holes you play it as a distinct 9 holes and 18 holes so for me just one course - the eighteen hole one.

23

#24 raynorfan1

raynorfan1

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,696 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 119065
  • Joined: 12/17/2010
GolfWRX Likes : 1413

Posted 29 March 2018 - 11:52 AM

View Postshotmark, on 29 March 2018 - 11:38 AM, said:

View Postraynorfan1, on 29 March 2018 - 07:19 AM, said:

View Postshotmark, on 29 March 2018 - 07:12 AM, said:

View Postraynorfan1, on 29 March 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:

How many "courses" is The Loop in your mind?

"The loop" is the additional four holes built in the '70s.  The 22 holes holes are - per the club's website used as 5 separate 18 hole combinations, so 5 courses.

I've only played one of the 5 myself.  This was on a Captain's trip several years ago and at the time I didn't even know there were 22 holes so not sure what combination I played.

Sorry, I meant the new course in Michigan that has 18 greensites and 18 tee boxes - but is designed to be played in both directions (clockwise and counterclockwise).
Re your own course, from what you say although it's 27 holes you play it as a distinct 9 holes and 18 holes so for me just one course - the eighteen hole one.

I don't really see the difference between this and the Seaton Carew example. I mean, it's true that our most common layout is one 18 and one 9, but the 6 "distinct" 18 hole routings all have names, course ratings, scorecards, etc. and they all get played with some regularity. But there is a default set up.

24

#25 Andrew Bond of Glencoe

Andrew Bond of Glencoe

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 628 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 371925
  • Joined: 04/19/2015
  • Location:Sunny Florida
  • Handicap:2.5
GolfWRX Likes : 421

Posted 29 March 2018 - 12:03 PM

I think any number of holes beyond 9 holes would count. Remember the original Open Rota had a 12 Hole course in Prestwick, a 18 Hole course in St Andrews and a 9 Hole course in Musselburgh.

To this day Shiskine in Scotland is an amazing 12 Hole course that was designed by Willie Park.


25

#26 shotmark

shotmark

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 679 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 102090
  • Joined: 01/15/2010
  • Location:West Yorkshire, England.
  • Handicap:9
GolfWRX Likes : 264

Posted 29 March 2018 - 12:08 PM

View Postraynorfan1, on 29 March 2018 - 11:52 AM, said:

View Postshotmark, on 29 March 2018 - 11:38 AM, said:

View Postraynorfan1, on 29 March 2018 - 07:19 AM, said:

View Postshotmark, on 29 March 2018 - 07:12 AM, said:

View Postraynorfan1, on 29 March 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:

How many "courses" is The Loop in your mind?

"The loop" is the additional four holes built in the '70s.  The 22 holes holes are - per the club's website used as 5 separate 18 hole combinations, so 5 courses.

I've only played one of the 5 myself.  This was on a Captain's trip several years ago and at the time I didn't even know there were 22 holes so not sure what combination I played.

Sorry, I meant the new course in Michigan that has 18 greensites and 18 tee boxes - but is designed to be played in both directions (clockwise and counterclockwise).
Re your own course, from what you say although it's 27 holes you play it as a distinct 9 holes and 18 holes so for me just one course - the eighteen hole one.

I don't really see the difference between this and the Seaton Carew example. I mean, it's true that our most common layout is one 18 and one 9, but the 6 "distinct" 18 hole routings all have names, course ratings, scorecards, etc. and they all get played with some regularity. But there is a default set up.

Sorry, misunderstood your previous post.  I thought it was an 18 and 9 hole course where it was possible to play different combinations rather than these being established 18 hole combo's with their own name and card.  So yes, by my reckoning six courses.  Just out of interest what course is it?

26

#27 shotmark

shotmark

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 679 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 102090
  • Joined: 01/15/2010
  • Location:West Yorkshire, England.
  • Handicap:9
GolfWRX Likes : 264

Posted 29 March 2018 - 12:11 PM

View PostAndrew Bond of Glencoe, on 29 March 2018 - 12:03 PM, said:

I think any number of holes beyond 9 holes would count. Remember the original Open Rota had a 12 Hole course in Prestwick, a 18 Hole course in St Andrews and a 9 Hole course in Musselburgh.

To this day Shiskine in Scotland is an amazing 12 Hole course that was designed by Willie Park.

I'm not disputing there are great courses with less than 18 holes and under 5300 yards but for me they're not golf courses.  There is an interesting 6 hole course near me but I certainly wouldn't count it.  Nor would I count the brilliant crazy golf course in Windsor Gardens Bournemouth, much as I enjoyed playing it as a child.

27



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

GolfWRX Sponsors