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Is Toe Hang Critically Important Or Is It More Of A Marketing Ploy


41 replies to this topic

#1 DHarry

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 07:40 PM

Hi guys,

I’m sure that there are many on here with more knowledge than me about this topic. I am aware that the theory suggests that little to no arc = face balanced, slight arc = moderate toe hang and strong arc = maximum toe hang.
I’m near enough sure that to my naked eye I see some pros with strong arcs using face balanced putters and pros with straight strokes using putters with moderate and maximum toe hang. It leads me to possibly believe, is the importance of toe hang somewhat of a myth?
I know feel and looks are important too and I may be overthinking this but I would to know what the general consensus is relating to toe hang.

Thanks,

Harry


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#2 Need4spd

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 08:10 PM

Hmmm, I have often wondered this myself. I used to think it was more myth, but as of late I’m coming to the realization that there probably is some science behind the idea. My stroke is basically SBST and I’ve realized that I strike my putts on the center of the putter face with far more regularity with a face balanced putter than I do anything else.
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#3 Manz60

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 08:59 PM

here is a very good article
https://www.golfdige...ke-frank-thomas

its not straight back, straight through vs arc, but rather " on plane".  If the stroke is on plane , you can use  a face balance or toe hang, the point is to keep the face square to the path, into  the impact zone.

hope this helps
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#4 PaulCGaffney

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 10:39 PM

A top 100 fitter more or less told me that my new $300 putter was a waste of money since I have a "straight back straight through" path. I still use it from time to time (as you can tell by the sig) because I'm in love with how it looks and feels. I think that I have to pull the trigger and sell it before this season. I rarely use it anymore and when I do it's with mixed results
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#5 Maximilian

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 03:51 AM

For the most part, I do think matching toe hang to your stroke makes it easier to repeat your natural, non-manipulated stroke. But of course you could make putts with any kind of putter, but you may feel the need to change your setup a bit for you to feel comfortable with it. Changing your natural setup can have the effect of making it harder for you to see the line, and of course just simply making you feel less comfortable over the ball.


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#6 5UnderPar

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 09:24 AM

No doubt that toe hang can influence a putting stroke. However, I [and I bet most] can use any putter, from blade to mallet, and produce very similar statistics over time. The key is finding a putter that suits your eye and stick with it. Over time you will be a much better putter as your stroke/aim  accommodates for any perceived toe hang issue. The problem is, we all change putters too often.

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#7 jokerusn

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 09:42 AM

So, my view is that toe hang is both important and not at all important depending on the player.  Years ago I was playing a ping anser and would miss everything left.  I realized that for my stroke, the putter was too easy to close during the swing.  Tried some face balanced putters and it was even worse.  I switched to a ping zing and stopped missing left.  I found that the extra distance between the cg and the shaft axis kept the putter closing at a better rate.  Just the opposite with the face balanced putters - the cg was in line with the shaft axis.  NOW, does that mean it'll work for everyone? No.  Some people I know have a slight arc and successfully use a face balanced putter.  They do different things with their hands during the stroke so there's no one method I can claim to work best - LHL, both palms facing each other, 10 finger grip, etc.  Some even use the fat grips which helps slow down your wrist action and effectively eliminate some of the "arc".  Basically, the point is that if a putter sets up well for you visually, there are ways to make it work for you.
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#8 oukeith

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:08 AM

Only speaking for myself...I greatly prefer a face balanced mallet putter, just based on carpet putting.  The face balanced putters Iíve used just want to go straight, whereas blade putters are more likely to spray the ball offline.  

I donít have a SBST stroke at all, but I do believe that you can groove your stroke to match a putter, and if you change up the balance of the putter, it will throw off your stroke.

Grip and shaft length also have an effect.

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#9 VNutz

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:28 AM

Yes and no. I do believe there are certain setups that work better for some guys, but look at a guy like Jack Nicklaus. He used that George Low putter for years with great success, a full hang blade, then won the 86 Masters and made some great putts with the MacGregor Response that couldn't have been more different in both toe hang/flow as well as size and forgiveness.

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#10 jslane57

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:33 AM

Can a good putter putt well with anything? Yup. But having the club that really matches what you're naturally doing will help. For me my lag putting is impacted by going from an Anser style club to a mallet. So I use an Anser style putter so my touch on long putts is better.

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#11 nicholasriehl

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 01:20 PM

In my experience it's the most important thing. I was a terrible putter until I figured out face balanced putters fit my stroke type and was immediately much better.
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#12 tobiasjd

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 01:52 PM

I think it matters but I would base it on feel and what works, not what someone else says my stroke should be fitted with.
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#13 MCGolfTM

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 02:01 PM

I honestly don't know why the toe hang works better for me, as I never had a putter fitting, but it works much better for me that my previous S-bend Spider Limited. I would always pull my puts to the left, changed to the slant neck Spider Tour with toe hang, and my problem was fixed immediately. Whatever works.
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#14 hahanice

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 08:09 PM

there are a bunch of threads on the science of toe hang and i am lead to believe it doesn't matter. we don't swing on the plane that toe hang shows itself, and if you swing any putter in a pendulum motion without manipulating the face, they all pretty much do the same thing. add in the fact that we are beings with control of our motor functions, the amount of force that the weight of a putter head can have is not enough to force to overcome the strength we have in our hands.

i do a lot of putter testing and find there is very little difference in my putting performance based on the stroke. for me the biggest thing is finding the right shape. length kind of matters but i could always choke down.

NOW with that said i am currently gaming a putter that matches my stroke because i found one that fits my eye. figure it can't hurt.

page 2 of this thread has a lot of scientific back and forth. worth a read
http://www.golfwrx.c...-really-matter/

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#15 tangojay

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 08:51 PM

Yes-No

I believe in this age of technology, too many people are getting hung up on data and numbers, this is evident by golfers in this sight talking spin numbers,

Having said that, I did try a "fitting", it said I needed a plumbers neck , well, I have been gaming a heel shafted putter for 7 years now and never putted better, even tho the "fitting" said this was the worse suited for me.

Go out and try everything, you may be surprised what fits you.


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#16 craz-e

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 10:51 PM

I remember the first time playing with a serious toe hang putter and realising just how much that fits my stroke, putting felt completely natural for the first time instead of almost robotic.
Putting has always been a strong part of my game and I feel I can put well with most styles of putter but having a putter in my hands that feels natural has given me so much more confidence.
That's why I would always recommend trying every style out there in seeing if one potential fits.
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#17 Starling

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:07 PM

Personally I believe it does matter to an extant, but only so far as you should putt with what you're comfortable with.

Anecdotally, I've used a hand me down Eye 2 ever since I was tall enough to, and that putter has moderate toe-hang. My putting stroke is pretty close to straight back and straight through. I picked up a few face-balanced putters last time I was at Roger Dunn, and noticed I pulled nearly all of them left. Probably something to do with my now natural compensation for the toe hang in my putter.
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#18 sbboudreau

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:25 PM

I have a hang nail in my big toe. Does that count? Just kidding. Technically speaking about this subject is beyond my comprehension, thus the joke to start my response. Feel is everything for me. I know very little about this subject and therefore I am disqualified to comment intelligently. Putting is all about feel for me. But reading the responses here enlightens me to a degree.
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#19 sbboudreau

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:45 PM

Especially having 40+ Putters to work with. My Ping collection just got a few nice old additions. But I have to say the best feeling Putter I have ever used is my Titleist Tour Model Flange Classic. The feel is so solid, crisp and true to me. I think it is a toe hang style Putter. Also the Titleist Tour Model Center Shaft Offset has a nice feel. I frequently play the Rife Abaco Island Series Putter with some success. And on the other hand the original Anser has just a Sweetness as does the 1-A. To many choices, oh and I picked up an Arnold Palmer 30R and enjoyed the few rounds I used it.
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#20 Lancj1

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 03:43 PM

Im not convinced. How a putter behaved when balanced on a finger parallel to the ground has absolutely no bearing on how it behaves when putted. Its just made up bull. Hold the putter to the very end of the grip between thumb and finger (front and back of grip) and swing like a pendulum and see what that does....

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#21 jslane57

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 04:25 PM

 Lancj1, on 09 March 2018 - 03:43 PM, said:

Im not convinced. How a putter behaved when balanced on a finger parallel to the ground has absolutely no bearing on how it behaves when putted. Its just made up bull. Hold the putter to the very end of the grip between thumb and finger (front and back of grip) and swing like a pendulum and see what that does....
Precisely. Toe hang will allow a putter to close or open faster or slower when doing this little experiment. Rear weighted face balance putters if opened will stay open longer. For me, that means pushed putts. Finding a mid toe hang putter that I like allows me to get the ball started on line without thinking about the club or the stroke one bit.

As far as a marketing ploy, marketing needs to sell something right? And better balance seems to be something marketing has convinced poor putter that they need more of. In reality I'd guess it hurts as many folks as it helps...

Edited by jslane57, 09 March 2018 - 04:27 PM.

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#22 hrmgolf72

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 07:33 PM

100% matters and you could never conveince me of anything different. I would for sure look into it

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#23 DHarry

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 07:59 PM

Thank you all for the replies. There is a lot of food for thought here.

Harry

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#24 scottb15

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 08:09 PM

My .02 is you putt better what you feel most confident with, looks and feel are very important when it comes to a putter.
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#25 chickenpotpie

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 10:22 PM

Itís crap.  You see putters marketed with more or less toe hang, but I have yet to see a single study that suggests one or the other is better for a given stroke.  Itís basically just marketed as fact without any data to support it.

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#26 Maximilian

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 02:30 AM

 chickenpotpie, on 09 March 2018 - 10:22 PM, said:

Itís crap.  You see putters marketed with more or less toe hang, but I have yet to see a single study that suggests one or the other is better for a given stroke.  Itís basically just marketed as fact without any data to support it.
I'm not really sure what you define as a study, but there really is a large amount out there if you look for it.

One good place to start is by googling Bruce Rearick. He has worked a whole career in putter fitting and has collected data from hundred thousands of people on SAM (not exaggerating either). He has worked for several of the large manufacturers and openly calls them out on stuff that is just marketing (toe hang not one of them).

He is generous with his knowledge and findings that he shares on his own blog and he is also active on PutterTalk and you can find him on some podcasts discussing putter fitting, too.

I'm guessing he has enough data to convince you that toe hang, along with other things, does indeed matter and has a real measurable effect on how well you putt.

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#27 bazinoz

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 03:49 AM

 5UnderPar, on 08 March 2018 - 09:24 AM, said:

The problem is, we all change putters too often.

I nearly spat my coffee out then.

Go hang your head in shame 5Under. Can't believe you said that on here. What ever the question is "buy a new putter" is always the anser (see what I did there :) )

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#28 blue 22 golf

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 08:55 AM

Amen!

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#29 dlygrisse

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 09:12 AM

It is part of the process of finding the right putter.  But it's probably not the most important component.  

Length, lie, loft, shape, weight, color, grip, shaft, grip size, grip shape, offset, face angle, hosel style, materials/face insert, visual preference and maybe most importantly alignment aid.  Some prefer none, some like big circles, some arrows and lines all over the place.  in the end if you can't aim the putter the rest is all just marketing.  I'd put toe flow pretty close to the bottom of the list in IMHO.  Now for others it might be a bit higher.
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#30 Z1ggy16

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 09:16 AM

Phil seems to have a fairly straight stroke but is using a #9 with a flow neck which has to be producing a ton of toe hang. I think it does matter but I wouldn't put it in the top 3 in terms of importance. I'm not a putting or golf expert, but I'd much rather have the correct loft, lie and head shape (with proper alignment) than worrying about if the 30* of hang or if I should go with 15 or 0*.

I of course would say you should match the two up but I'm sure there's plenty of guys out there who have decent arc who use FB and guys with not much arc who have lots of toe hang.

WITB
DR - '16 M2 Speeder Evo II 661 (Srixon Z785 on order)
3W - Rogue SZ Evenflow Blue 75 (F8 2kXV Blue 75 back up)
3h - JPX 850 Tensei Blue 80
Irons - P790 4-PW Modus 120
GW - Cobra Trusty 50/8 Modus Wedge 115
SW - Cobra Trusty 54/10 Modus Wedge 115 for firm turf/Taylormade Fe2O3 56/14 DG S200 for medium & soft
LW - Cobra Trusty 60/6 Modus Wedge 115
P - Custom Oil Soaked Xenon (Odyssey O Works Tank #7 backup)
Ball - Project (a) [Testing Q Star Tour's for WRX]
Sun Mountain 4.5 Bag

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