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Practice Set, Rifle Frequency Matched Shafts feel pretty good, Question for Howard/Others with experience here?


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#1 Strolf

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 04:10 PM

So I have my Fourteen irons with Oban Steel CT 115 shafts in them, and they feel really great.  MOI Matched and all.  They are helping me make a smoother transition, which is the goal coming from PX 6.0s.  I just picked up a "Practice Set" of Hogan 1999 Apex and they have Rifle FCM 6.5 Frequency matched shafts, all at D4 (I came from a heavier set with my former 6-iron D4.5).  So get this, they feel spectacular?  While they are helping the ball striking, I'm concerned that I may get too used to the heavier SwingWeight in the 7-3-irons (I actually carry the 3-iron 199-210).  They are shorter because lofts are old school, and about a club different throughout the set.

Thoughts on how I should move forward?

Shaft Questions:
  • Reshaft the Hogans with the Oban Steel exact set and MOI match them?  Expensive.
  • Keep Hogans all at D4, and work on center face contact, and just go with the fact that I'm striking them well?
Other Questions:
  • Also, Can someone (Howard?) tell me what I have with the Rifle Frequency Matched Set? I read that shafts actually get heavier for longer irons?
  • I know there's a difference in these shafts, but what is it?
  • Am I over thinking things?  Plenty of guys play well with SwingWeight matched vs. MOI matched.
  • Why, loft for loft, do these fly further?  Essentially, the 5-iron is 29 degrees (current Fourteen FH900 6-iron), but flies 7-9 yards more for same loft???
Thank you in advance.


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#2 Thayneil

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 06:55 AM

View PostStrolf, on 13 February 2018 - 04:10 PM, said:

So I have my Fourteen irons with Oban Steel CT 115 shafts in them, and they feel really great.  MOI Matched and all.  They are helping me make a smoother transition, which is the goal coming from PX 6.0s.  I just picked up a "Practice Set" of Hogan 1999 Apex and they have Rifle FCM 6.5 Frequency matched shafts, all at D4 (I came from a heavier set with my former 6-iron D4.5).  So get this, they feel spectacular?  While they are helping the ball striking, I'm concerned that I may get too used to the heavier SwingWeight in the 7-3-irons (I actually carry the 3-iron 199-210).  They are shorter because lofts are old school, and about a club different throughout the set.

Thoughts on how I should move forward?

Shaft Questions:
  • Reshaft the Hogans with the Oban Steel exact set and MOI match them?  Expensive.
  • Keep Hogans all at D4, and work on center face contact, and just go with the fact that I'm striking them well?
Other Questions:
  • Also, Can someone (Howard?) tell me what I have with the Rifle Frequency Matched Set? I read that shafts actually get heavier for longer irons?
  • I know there's a difference in these shafts, but what is it?
  • Am I over thinking things?  Plenty of guys play well with SwingWeight matched vs. MOI matched.
  • Why, loft for loft, do these fly further?  Essentially, the 5-iron is 29 degrees (current Fourteen FH900 6-iron), but flies 7-9 yards more for same loft???
Thank you in advance.


Rifle shafts are all cut from same blank so get lighter as you go from 3-4 4 to 5 etc

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#3 phatchrisrules

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 08:41 AM

View PostStrolf, on 13 February 2018 - 04:10 PM, said:

Why, loft for loft, do these fly further?  Essentially, the 5-iron is 29 degrees (current Fourteen FH900 6-iron), but flies 7-9 yards more for same loft???
Thank you in advance.

Dynamic loft, my friend.  For whatever reason, be it the Rifle shafts, the swing weight, the iron design, whatever.  It is causing you to come through with a negative angle of attack (which is pretty much what you want for an iron) allowing you to deloft it.  So even though these are 1 club weaker loft, you are basically delofting it more than you are with your current clubs, which is why it is flying further than your Fourteen 6i.  The longer shaft is probably helping generate a bit more swing and ball speed too, so that needs to be considered.

Edited by phatchrisrules, 14 February 2018 - 08:42 AM.

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#4 Nessism

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 10:04 AM

I think it's important to keep the specs the same between your practice and gamer set.  Otherwise, as you noted, you may get used to one vs. the other and that defeats the purpose of having a practice set in the first place.
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#5 Strolf

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 11:22 AM

View PostNessism, on 14 February 2018 - 10:04 AM, said:

I think it's important to keep the specs the same between your practice and gamer set.  Otherwise, as you noted, you may get used to one vs. the other and that defeats the purpose of having a practice set in the first place.

RIght, wondering which one is better really.  The Hogans just felt soooo good.  Maybe guys can chime in around the pluses and minuses of Frequency vs. Constant weight shafts, what types of players gravitate towards each, etc.?  I have a pretty aggressive transition.  One other thought was if the Hogan heads are lighter in the longer irons, which would be conducive to a heavier shafts in those clubs?


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#6 Nessism

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 12:25 PM

I used to play Rifles and absolutely loved them.  They feel awesome.  I suspect much of your love for those Hogan's is as simple as liking the way the Rifles feel.  They have a medium bend profile and absorb vibration better than anything this side of graphite (my opinion).
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#7 Strolf

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 12:31 PM

View PostNessism, on 14 February 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

I used to play Rifles and absolutely loved them.  They feel awesome.  I suspect much of your love for those Hogan's is as simple as liking the way the Rifles feel.  They have a medium bend profile and absorb vibration better than anything this side of graphite (my opinion).
Wondering how they might work if I MOI matched them?  Might be worth a little effort.

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#8 Nessism

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 12:43 PM

View PostStrolf, on 14 February 2018 - 12:31 PM, said:

Wondering how they might work if I MOI matched them?  Might be worth a little effort.

I wouldn't bother.  You would have to take weight out of the long irons and that's not easy/possible unless there are large tip weights in the heads already.
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#9 Strolf

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 12:45 PM

View PostNessism, on 14 February 2018 - 12:43 PM, said:

View PostStrolf, on 14 February 2018 - 12:31 PM, said:

Wondering how they might work if I MOI matched them?  Might be worth a little effort.

I wouldn't bother.  You would have to take weight out of the long irons and that's not easy/possible unless there are large tip weights in the heads already.

Actually, the 3-iron at D4 felt awesome...I would just need to add a little to each head on down the set.

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#10 Nard_S

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 12:47 PM

Rifle 6.5 is a nice shaft, with 99 Apex, it's great. Enjoy them. If you want to lighten SW by a point use a heavier corded grip.


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#11 Nessism

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 12:55 PM

View PostStrolf, on 14 February 2018 - 12:45 PM, said:

View PostNessism, on 14 February 2018 - 12:43 PM, said:

View PostStrolf, on 14 February 2018 - 12:31 PM, said:

Wondering how they might work if I MOI matched them?  Might be worth a little effort.

I wouldn't bother.  You would have to take weight out of the long irons and that's not easy/possible unless there are large tip weights in the heads already.

Actually, the 3-iron at D4 felt awesome...I would just need to add a little to each head on down the set.

Swingweight in your short irons is going to be something like D7.  Maybe fine but why? Unless you don't hit the short irons well now.
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#12 Strolf

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 12:58 PM

View PostNessism, on 14 February 2018 - 12:55 PM, said:

View PostStrolf, on 14 February 2018 - 12:45 PM, said:

View PostNessism, on 14 February 2018 - 12:43 PM, said:

View PostStrolf, on 14 February 2018 - 12:31 PM, said:

Wondering how they might work if I MOI matched them?  Might be worth a little effort.

I wouldn't bother.  You would have to take weight out of the long irons and that's not easy/possible unless there are large tip weights in the heads already.

Actually, the 3-iron at D4 felt awesome...I would just need to add a little to each head on down the set.

Swingweight in your short irons is going to be something like D7.  Maybe fine but why? Unless you don't hit the short irons well now.
Fair point!  Either way, it sounds like I have to start tearing these apart to either change shafts or see if there are tip weights and reweight and try out FCM model shafts.

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#13 Nard_S

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 02:10 PM

It won't be the shaft or head that gives you the D4, there has to be weights.

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#14 Strolf

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 03:58 PM

View PostNard_S, on 14 February 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

It won't be the shaft or head that gives you the D4, there has to be weights.

Are the Oban Shafts Flighted as well?  So, even though they are constant weight, maybe the flighted nature is the feel I'm feeling?  Or maybe it's heavier weight of the shaft relative to the SW that I like?

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#15 Nard_S

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:11 PM

View PostStrolf, on 14 February 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:

View PostNard_S, on 14 February 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

It won't be the shaft or head that gives you the D4, there has to be weights.

Are the Oban Shafts Flighted as well?  So, even though they are constant weight, maybe the flighted nature is the feel I'm feeling?  Or maybe it's heavier weight of the shaft relative to the SW that I like?

If they are gold label Rifles, they are NOT flighted, so i take it you blue label and they say "flighted".

For me, Rifles are funny, they actually work better in stiffer/heavier configuration. I have 5.0's, 6.0's and a 7.5. The X is the best one. Longest and most accurate, also out hits S300 and yet is heavier than all. You might be responding to the weight.It might fit your tempo and swing better in the surprising way it does mine. BTW, all clubs w/rifles (5 sets) are in D1 & D2 range, 2 sets of 99 Apex (FM #4 shafts) I have are D2


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#16 Strolf

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:22 PM

View PostNard_S, on 14 February 2018 - 04:11 PM, said:

View PostStrolf, on 14 February 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:

View PostNard_S, on 14 February 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

It won't be the shaft or head that gives you the D4, there has to be weights.

Are the Oban Shafts Flighted as well?  So, even though they are constant weight, maybe the flighted nature is the feel I'm feeling?  Or maybe it's heavier weight of the shaft relative to the SW that I like?

If they are gold label Rifles, they are NOT flighted, so i take it you blue label and they say "flighted".

For me, Rifles are funny, they actually work better in stiffer/heavier configuration. I have 5.0's, 6.0's and a 7.5. The X is the best one. Longest and most accurate, also out hits S300 and yet is heavier than all. You might be responding to the weight.It might fit your tempo and swing better in the surprising way it does mine. BTW, all clubs w/rifles (5 sets) are in D1 & D2 range, 2 sets of 99 Apex (FM #4 shafts) I have are D2

Weird, they are gold, but they say Flighted on the label
flighted.jpg

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#17 Nard_S

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:30 PM

View PostStrolf, on 14 February 2018 - 04:22 PM, said:

View PostNard_S, on 14 February 2018 - 04:11 PM, said:

View PostStrolf, on 14 February 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:

View PostNard_S, on 14 February 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

It won't be the shaft or head that gives you the D4, there has to be weights.

Are the Oban Shafts Flighted as well?  So, even though they are constant weight, maybe the flighted nature is the feel I'm feeling?  Or maybe it's heavier weight of the shaft relative to the SW that I like?

If they are gold label Rifles, they are NOT flighted, so i take it you blue label and they say "flighted".

For me, Rifles are funny, they actually work better in stiffer/heavier configuration. I have 5.0's, 6.0's and a 7.5. The X is the best one. Longest and most accurate, also out hits S300 and yet is heavier than all. You might be responding to the weight.It might fit your tempo and swing better in the surprising way it does mine. BTW, all clubs w/rifles (5 sets) are in D1 & D2 range, 2 sets of 99 Apex (FM #4 shafts) I have are D2

Weird, they are gold, but they say Flighted on the label
flighted.jpg

Okay, I've never seen that, I have blue labeled ones on my TM RAC MB's. FWIW, I see little practical difference between flight & non.

I recommend you look up threads about Rifles w/ Howard Jones in them. He explains everything well. Shame he gave up on WRX, people started annoying him even though he was quite generous in his time &  information.

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#18 Strolf

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 12:24 AM

Just hit 8-iron...feels way to light.

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#19 Nard_S

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 08:34 AM

View PostStrolf, on 15 February 2018 - 12:24 AM, said:

Just hit 8-iron...feels way to light.

As is or you modified?

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#20 Strolf

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 12:28 AM

View PostNard_S, on 15 February 2018 - 08:34 AM, said:

View PostStrolf, on 15 February 2018 - 12:24 AM, said:

Just hit 8-iron...feels way to light.

As is or you modified?
As is...just didn't feel right.


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#21 Nard_S

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 09:46 AM

I looked this up. Flighted shafts, in mid irons they used CPM as labeled & stock cut, for long they go with .5 stiffer and soft step a bit, and for short they go-.5 and hard step a bit. So the feel that their too light in short may derive from that.The CPM applies to the butt of the shaft too. I'm not sure I get the logic of it all but still do not find an appreciable difference in performance between both versions.

If you really like the longs, stock Rifles in 6.5 -7.0 might be the ticket, otherwise find something else. The 99 Apex is a stellar iron, one of the best made in last 20 years, imho. Worth the effort to dial them  in to for your liking.Good luck.

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#22 Strolf

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 11:17 AM

View PostNard_S, on 16 February 2018 - 09:46 AM, said:

I looked this up. Flighted shafts, in mid irons they used CPM as labeled & stock cut, for long they go with .5 stiffer and soft step a bit, and for short they go-.5 and hard step a bit. So the feel that their too light in short may derive from that.The CPM applies to the butt of the shaft too. I'm not sure I get the logic of it all but still do not find an appreciable difference in performance between both versions.

If you really like the longs, stock Rifles in 6.5 -7.0 might be the ticket, otherwise find something else. The 99 Apex is a stellar iron, one of the best made in last 20 years, imho. Worth the effort to dial them  in to for your liking.Good luck.
Thanks...I like the Oban CT115 shaft, but I feel like it needs just a little more weight.  Might search for a KBS option with a similar bend profile, maybe the Tour or C-Taper S Hard stepped.

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#23 Strolf

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 02:06 PM

View PostNard_S, on 16 February 2018 - 09:46 AM, said:

I looked this up. Flighted shafts, in mid irons they used CPM as labeled & stock cut, for long they go with .5 stiffer and soft step a bit, and for short they go-.5 and hard step a bit. So the feel that their too light in short may derive from that.The CPM applies to the butt of the shaft too. I'm not sure I get the logic of it all but still do not find an appreciable difference in performance between both versions.

If you really like the longs, stock Rifles in 6.5 -7.0 might be the ticket, otherwise find something else. The 99 Apex is a stellar iron, one of the best made in last 20 years, imho. Worth the effort to dial them  in to for your liking.Good luck.
Ended up putting in Modus 125 X...Perfect combo for me.  Much tighter dispersion compared to Oban.  I think the extra weight makes all the difference.

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#24 Cwebb

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 03:25 PM

The closest bend profile match today in a constant weight shaft, is the KBS Tour.  They also have them in .370 , which can built nearly identical as Rifles...without the stepless look.  

To get close to the Rifle 6.5, I would soft-step the KBS Tour 'X' or you could try the 'S' straight in, for something a little softer

Edited by Cwebb, 19 May 2018 - 03:27 PM.


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#25 Strolf

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 11:25 AM

So ended up getting Nippon 125 in X flex and am hitting some pretty nice shots with the Hogan Apex 99s.  They feel awesome, and the shot dispersion is really tight.  Long Irons are a little lower than I'd like, and the forgiveness (for me) just isn't there in 3 and 4 irons, but that's the point right?

Fast forward a couple weeks playing the Hogan's regularly...I went back to the Oban 115 in my FH900s and am now hitting a little/big push right.  Could this be the difference between the Nippon (straight) or Oban (now pushes)?  Or is it something in my swing that is happening from going from one club/shaft combo to the next?  Note, Nippons are X straight in, while Oban's are soft stepped, but I doubt that makes any real difference as the distances I'm hitting the Hogans is slightly 3-5 yards per iron shorter, so they're effectively soft stepped


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#26 phatchrisrules

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 09:44 AM

View PostStrolf, on 27 May 2018 - 11:25 AM, said:

So ended up getting Nippon 125 in X flex and am hitting some pretty nice shots with the Hogan Apex 99s.  They feel awesome, and the shot dispersion is really tight.  Long Irons are a little lower than I'd like, and the forgiveness (for me) just isn't there in 3 and 4 irons, but that's the point right?

Fast forward a couple weeks playing the Hogan's regularly...I went back to the Oban 115 in my FH900s and am now hitting a little/big push right.  Could this be the difference between the Nippon (straight) or Oban (now pushes)?  Or is it something in my swing that is happening from going from one club/shaft combo to the next?  Note, Nippons are X straight in, while Oban's are soft stepped, but I doubt that makes any real difference as the distances I'm hitting the Hogans is slightly 3-5 yards per iron shorter, so they're effectively soft stepped

It might be the difference in bend profiles.  Shafts that have more weight closer to your hands, like KBS or PX, tend to be harder to turn over in general.  While Nippons are pretty neutral in their CG placement, this could cause the difference in release.  Just for clarification, I have a set of Shimada iron shafts, but I haven't frequencied them or done any research on them, not have I ever seen an Oban steel shaft.  SO I could be way wrong.
Callaway Rogue SZ 9* - Diamana BF 60
Callaway Rogue SZ 13.5* - Fubuki V-Series 70
Callaway Rogue SZ 18* - Diamana Thump 85
Ping G700 4 - Fujikura Atmos Black 95
Ping G700 5 - Accra 105CWT "Master's Green"
Ping i500 6-PW - Accra 105CWT "Master's Green" (Most likely as it looks awesome)
Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 50/SS, 54/ES, 58/ES - Modus 105 Wedge Master's Green
Bettinardi Inovai 3.0 Centre Shaft

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