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Just another fitting question from the guy that second guesses everything!


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#1 wcgolf

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 11:59 PM

So last week went to have a fitting done by a local guy with indoor flightscope. He is a Wishon guy with a ton of shaft options in house to try. I was playing Srixon 545/745 combo set at standard L/L/L with Nippon 120 stiff Modus. Have a bad two way miss with S300 and the modus seemed to help eliminate that but ballflight and spin were low. 7 iron carry in 170 range.

Hit a few balls to get a baseline and then he put some of his wishon heads together with different shafts. Swing speeds were roughly 90-93 with 6 iron. Started with steel fiber i95 stiff and it was all over. Moved to nippon 950. Dispersion immediately was awesome at 8 yards but spin was through the roof. (My biggest fear is every time I have gone away from dynamic gold into the wind the ball just falls out of the air). We decided this was definitely going to happen into the wind due to spin. Unfortunately he did not have any of the heavier weights in this shaft so not sure if leaving that as an unknown. Then he threw another Modus in at 130 gram and I hit a few and it was great. Threw a mid size grip on it( Iíve always played standard) and he had the dispersion at D2.5 swingweight to 14 yards. Sweet I can live with that and the spin numbers were great. The kicker is it was a regular flex shaft. Me being skeptic, and being fit all the way down to swingweight, am I being put in regular flex when I think Iím being told to go x flex by the watts guys?  Do I shut up and just buy some
Modus 130 r flex or am I crazy and go get another fitting? Please give me some input so I can buy a set of irons and play again!

Mac


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#2 81PING

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 03:12 AM

Go get another fitting. It is more than a bit odd that you would be a high spin player fighting ballooning, yet fit into a reg flex.  


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#3 Stuart G.

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 03:48 AM

Just some thoughts.

Is it crazy to want to get a second fitting/opinion - certainly not.

Is it crazy that you might fit into a 'reg' flex shaft with that swing speed - also a definite NO.

Those speeds are more borderline between stiff and x-stiff but that's only a starting point in the fitting process anyways.  There is much more to fitting flex then just swing speed.   How aggressive or smooth the transition, how early or late the release, and last but not least, if a player has any preferences for feel or expectations for what they think they should feel from the shaft during the swing.

Unlike the rest of the Nippon line (which tends to be a bit soft to flex), the 130's are the opposite.  Fairly stiff to flex, particularly in the butt and mid section.  The 130 stiff is actually stiffer then the 950 x-stiffs.   So the Reg's in the 130's is really more like many stiff flex shafts and probably not far off from and maybe even a bit stiffer then the stiffness of the 120's you are currently playing.

If a stiffer shaft was a good fit you likely would not have had as much trouble with the steelfiber's (or even DG's) as you did.  Similar weight to the 950's but a very different (much stiffer) profile.   Although a few more tests might have been nice to verify, the data does seem to hint that you don't do well with stiffer shafts.

Edited by Stuart G., 13 February 2018 - 03:50 AM.


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#4 apprenti23

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 06:36 AM

Sounds like a mediocre fitter with awful options. Are all of these ďwishon fittersĒ like that? Sounds like you left with unanswered questions like what if you tried 1050 or 1150 Nippon right?

Iíd go somewhere else and donít tell them what you were previously fit into! Would love to see where they end up.

Edited by apprenti23, 13 February 2018 - 06:36 AM.


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#5 phatchrisrules

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 09:19 AM

View Postapprenti23, on 13 February 2018 - 06:36 AM, said:

Sounds like a mediocre fitter with awful options. Are all of these "wishon fitters" like that? Sounds like you left with unanswered questions like what if you tried 1050 or 1150 Nippon right?

I'd go somewhere else and don't tell them what you were previously fit into! Would love to see where they end up.

Jesus you're grumpy of late.  How does getting a playable ball flight that the player is comfortable with, combined with great spin and excellent feel mean the fitter is "mediocre" and has awful options?  The Nippon 1050 and 1150 are almost identical to the Modus 105 and Modus 120, so much so, name me one OEM that even carries the 1050 and 1150 anymore.  Srixon and Mizuno, the "kings" of no-charge upgrades dropped them two years ago when Modus started to really catch on.

Why is it so odd that a guy who really loved the feel of a stiff 95g shaft see similar performance gains out of a regular flex that is 25-30g heavier?  The 130 also has a similar profile to the 950 in terms of a softer tip and smoother feel.  One of my good friends used to work at a place like Club Champion and the lot, and found the Modus130 Stiff profiled out equivalent to a Rifle 7.0 (Project X 6.5) and the 130 X was roughly equivalent to a Rifle 9.2!!! I know similarity measures mean jack all, but come on, that is a seriously, seriously stout shaft!

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#6 wcgolf

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 12:43 PM

Stuart,

I was hoping you would chime in!  According to fitter I do have a very smooth transition and late release.  My only complaint honestly is the heavy shafts, but with smaller dispersion numbers and a consistent ball flight (slight fade) I think Iím going to give it a shot. 206 carry with 14 yard dispersion are hard numbers to pass up with a 6 iron. It certainly did not feel like a regular flex.

I will say I could feel the change in swing weight even by a half a point in the heavier shafts. Funny how noticeable the difference in a half a point made in the contact points of the club face as well.

Thanks guys!

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#7 Stuart G.

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 01:13 PM

Again - still somewhat guessing here but it seems the heavier weight is likely doing something to the release to help decrease the dynamic loft delivered (more forward shaft lean at impact).

The one thing that I might suggest trying first before changing shafts - try increasing the swing weight instead of the shaft weight with your current 120's.  Get some lead tape and play around with it adding a couple gm at a time to the head and see what happens to the ball flight.   Couldn't hurt and might end up doing something similar to the heavier static weight to help with the ball flight (and a lot cheaper if it does work).

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#8 cardoustie

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 01:16 PM

I agree on trying the 1050gh and 1150gh

Huge fan of the 1150's for me, have them in X in my s55's .... soft stepped once
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#9 wcgolf

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 09:31 PM

Well unfortunately I already sold the set of irons I had so trying different swing weight is out. I am considering buying both a 120 stiff and regular 130 and trying it out as the only thing I donít like is the heavy. I suspect I could get away with the 120 stiff with the midsize grip at D2.5.

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#10 Stuart G.

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:01 AM

Not sure if that's what you meant - but don't change grip size as a way to manage swing weight.   If you truly fit into a mid-size grip, then that's fine.  But if not, In your case, it's doubtful that the swing weight is the problem any ways, it's more likely the static weight and increasing the grip weight will just make that worse.  And increasing the grip weight doesn't really reduce the MOI/heft even if the SW is the problem.


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#11 wcgolf

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 11:04 AM

I have always played standard grips, but during the fitting he put on a midsize for a test and the results were night and day. Does it feel weird yes. They feel like a baseball bat to me, but the results speak for them self. I will say it helped get me from a slight draw over to a fade ball flight.

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#12 gibbyfan

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 11:19 AM

I can understand where OP is coming from ( with regards to confusing). I work with an instructor that also happens to have worked on PGA tour fan fitting. As a club junkie,I personally have found that steel shafts, of similar profiles, do not dramatically change my launch or spin. I feel like I have his every combination of steel shaft. I have hit most of the stock options. For my success it comes down to just the weight of the shaft. My gamer irons have AMT S400, which I like, but on a whim I bought a set with Ctaper X stiff and my results are pretty close in launch, spin, and ball speed according to the trackman and flightscope. Go with what feels good.

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#13 wcgolf

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 10:58 PM

Well that is my problem,  I love S300 feel but just canít get them to work. I hate project x period no matter flex,  anything I like in KBS balloons into the wind. And I like the feel of the nippons but Iím not thrilled about the 130 weight, but it for the first time in my life gave me a one way and preferred miss. If I could decide on a club head Iím gonna give it a go.

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#14 Stuart G.

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 03:46 AM

Sorry but something is off there.

You like the DG s300's (I assume that includes the weight) but not the weight of the Nippon 130's???

The DG's are  6-9 gm heavier then the Nippon 130 Reg (which are only 121 gm uncut).

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#15 81PING

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 08:33 AM

View PostStuart G., on 15 February 2018 - 03:46 AM, said:

Sorry but something is off there.

You like the DG s300's (I assume that includes the weight) but not the weight of the Nippon 130's???

The DG's are  6-9 gm heavier then the Nippon 130 Reg (which are only 121 gm uncut).

Was going to say this...the Nippon arent actually 130g.

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#16 wcgolf

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 09:20 PM

Well hell im not sure what to think any more.

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#17 Stuart G.

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 04:05 AM

Impossible to say w/o the values but there could have been something going on with the swing weights to make it seem to be heavier then it really is.   Both static weight and swing weight are important when it comes to the 'heft' feel of a club.  You can't really look at one w/o also looking at the other.

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#18 wcgolf

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 09:03 PM

Iím sure it was probably static weight. Iíve been playing with s300 or the Nippon 120 by the time he swingweighted to D2.5 and the midsize grip it felt seriously heavy for some reason.

Now that Iím finally convinced to take the leap and try them hardly any of the manufacturers have them as an option in regular flex. Iím stumped on what to do. Iíve got a set of brand new grips I can build up to midsize and I have a guy offering a used set of shafts. I guess I could save myself some coin and buy some heads

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#19 Stuart G.

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 03:41 AM

If he didn't ignore the heavier grip weight when he did swing weight the club, then the true swing weight would be heavier - by about 2 SW pts when going from std grip to a midsize grip.

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#20 wcgolf

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 08:48 AM

So he blew the grip on and then had lead tape he wrapped the hosel with to get it to D2.5 on the scale. Make any difference?  Any thoughts?


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#21 Stuart G.

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 10:18 AM

View Postwcgolf, on 17 February 2018 - 08:48 AM, said:

So he blew the grip on and then had lead tape he wrapped the hosel with to get it to D2.5 on the scale. Make any difference?  Any thoughts?

Sure.  Although nothing mind shattering ;-)  but if he added weight to the head and it felt too heavy after, try it again after removing some or all of that weight and see if it makes any difference.

Edited by Stuart G., 17 February 2018 - 10:19 AM.


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#22 wcgolf

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 10:28 AM

Well thatís how he was fitting for swingweight. When he removed or added any my point of contact changed. Weighted at D2.5 is what got me the most consistent center contact. I think I just need to suck it up and buy a trial shaft and see if all goes well.

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#23 Snowman9000

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 10:33 AM

For some people, a softer flex feels heavier.
For some people, a stiffer flex feels heavier.
It's very easy to draw wrong conclusions about what is causing you to feel what.  The only solution I've found is to test alternatives and see if your hypothesis seems right.

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#24 BB28403

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 01:15 AM

How do you find a guy with a flightscope?
I'd love to find someone in central or eastern NC who has a GC quad.
I have approached several people with launch monitors and it just has never worked out.
I wish I could rent one for an hour.

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#25 wcgolf

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 09:02 AM

We have a few guys around with either trackman or flightscope. You can look at either website and they will tell you locally or closest to you has one.


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