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If your team is 41 under par


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#31 pendodave

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 08:03 AM

Quote

His handicap got down to a 6.6...in the end of August...so right before his offseason ends. Of course it goes up after playing football for 4 months, or do you think he's got a lot of time to keep working on his game while he's in the middle of football season?

Interesting. This demonstrates a significant difference between the UK and US system. We (UK) only get 0.1 shots back if we fail to hit buffer (effectively 2 or 3 over our h/c) in a comp. So over here, he'd still be off 6.6 if he hadn't played since August. Even if he had played 10 rounds in the 90s since then, he would only have gone up 1 shot. Given that form is temporary and class is permanent, I think that would better reflect his abilities.


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#32 krtgolfing

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 08:05 AM

I love how everyone makes assumptions on a guy they have never met or played golf with. Dude might make a lot of birds and a lot of others.
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#33 Njames.cook2014

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 08:29 AM

Fitz is the man

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#34 raynorfan1

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 10:25 AM

You figure Streelman contributed -15 of the -41... so could a 10.5 index get eight to nine pars (or better) per round over four rounds at Pebble Beach?

With a course handicap of 13, you'd stroke on all of the Par 5's. It really doesn't seem that out of line to me.

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#35 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 10:38 AM

He seems like a genuinely class guy..........but classy guys can (and do)  bag a bit too.

Swing looks awfully solid for a double digit guy.

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#36 ebrasmus21

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 10:40 AM

View Postpendodave, on 13 February 2018 - 08:03 AM, said:

Quote

His handicap got down to a 6.6...in the end of August...so right before his offseason ends. Of course it goes up after playing football for 4 months, or do you think he's got a lot of time to keep working on his game while he's in the middle of football season?

Interesting. This demonstrates a significant difference between the UK and US system. We (UK) only get 0.1 shots back if we fail to hit buffer (effectively 2 or 3 over our h/c) in a comp. So over here, he'd still be off 6.6 if he hadn't played since August. Even if he had played 10 rounds in the 90s since then, he would only have gone up 1 shot. Given that form is temporary and class is permanent, I think that would better reflect his abilities.

UK system sounds like it drives your number to zero more so then us yanks.
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#37 GMR

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 11:11 AM

View Postebrasmus21, on 13 February 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

View Postpendodave, on 13 February 2018 - 08:03 AM, said:

Quote

His handicap got down to a 6.6...in the end of August...so right before his offseason ends. Of course it goes up after playing football for 4 months, or do you think he's got a lot of time to keep working on his game while he's in the middle of football season?

Interesting. This demonstrates a significant difference between the UK and US system. We (UK) only get 0.1 shots back if we fail to hit buffer (effectively 2 or 3 over our h/c) in a comp. So over here, he'd still be off 6.6 if he hadn't played since August. Even if he had played 10 rounds in the 90s since then, he would only have gone up 1 shot. Given that form is temporary and class is permanent, I think that would better reflect his abilities.

UK system sounds like it drives your number to zero more so then us yanks.
You'd think so but it's actually the opposite.  You have to beat the CSS (Competition Scratch Score) to get taken down, and there is no such thing as a "slope" adjustment.  All your scores count as well, not just the better half.  Having played under both systems I think the quality of play is roughly on average 2-3 strokes better in the UK (i.e a UK 10 plays around a US 7-8), but if you are a super-consistent guy that always shoots the same 82 you will be closer under both systems than the guy like me who mixes in 75s with my 88s (I'd be probably 4-5 strokes lower in the US).

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#38 lopey986

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 11:17 AM

View PostGMR, on 13 February 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

View Postebrasmus21, on 13 February 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

View Postpendodave, on 13 February 2018 - 08:03 AM, said:

Quote

His handicap got down to a 6.6...in the end of August...so right before his offseason ends. Of course it goes up after playing football for 4 months, or do you think he's got a lot of time to keep working on his game while he's in the middle of football season?

Interesting. This demonstrates a significant difference between the UK and US system. We (UK) only get 0.1 shots back if we fail to hit buffer (effectively 2 or 3 over our h/c) in a comp. So over here, he'd still be off 6.6 if he hadn't played since August. Even if he had played 10 rounds in the 90s since then, he would only have gone up 1 shot. Given that form is temporary and class is permanent, I think that would better reflect his abilities.

UK system sounds like it drives your number to zero more so then us yanks.
You'd think so but it's actually the opposite.  You have to beat the CSS (Competition Scratch Score) to get taken down, and there is no such thing as a "slope" adjustment.  All your scores count as well, not just the better half.  Having played under both systems I think the quality of play is roughly on average 2-3 strokes better in the UK (i.e a UK 10 plays around a US 7-8), but if you are a super-consistent guy that always shoots the same 82 you will be closer under both systems than the guy like me who mixes in 75s with my 88s (I'd be probably 4-5 strokes lower in the US).

US just seems to place a heavier emphasis on recent play. So someone like Fitz handicap can fluctuate pretty wildly when he can't really golf for 4-6 months a year.

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#39 raynorfan1

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 11:38 AM

View PostGMR, on 13 February 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

You'd think so but it's actually the opposite.  You have to beat the CSS (Competition Scratch Score) to get taken down, and there is no such thing as a "slope" adjustment.  All your scores count as well, not just the better half. Having played under both systems I think the quality of play is roughly on average 2-3 strokes better in the UK (i.e a UK 10 plays around a US 7-8), but if you are a super-consistent guy that always shoots the same 82 you will be closer under both systems than the guy like me who mixes in 75s with my 88s (I'd be probably 4-5 strokes lower in the US).

Only your scores in a competition count - casual rounds do not, which is another reason it takes a lot longer to move the number in the UK system.

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#40 GMR

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 11:42 AM

View Postraynorfan1, on 13 February 2018 - 11:38 AM, said:

View PostGMR, on 13 February 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

You'd think so but it's actually the opposite.  You have to beat the CSS (Competition Scratch Score) to get taken down, and there is no such thing as a "slope" adjustment.  All your scores count as well, not just the better half. Having played under both systems I think the quality of play is roughly on average 2-3 strokes better in the UK (i.e a UK 10 plays around a US 7-8), but if you are a super-consistent guy that always shoots the same 82 you will be closer under both systems than the guy like me who mixes in 75s with my 88s (I'd be probably 4-5 strokes lower in the US).

Only your scores in a competition count - casual rounds do not, which is another reason it takes a lot longer to move the number in the UK system.
Correct, although most people tend to score worse in competitions (where there is a bit of pressure and every ball is played to the bottom of the hole) vs. casual rounds with the buddies.  So basically all those rounds you beat your cap by 3-4 on a Saturday morning count for nought if you can't replicate it in a tourney round.  Yet one more reason it's tougher to get the cap down in the UK.

Edited by GMR, 13 February 2018 - 11:42 AM.


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#41 raynorfan1

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 11:42 AM

View Postlopey986, on 13 February 2018 - 07:43 AM, said:

View PostShutSteepStuck, on 13 February 2018 - 01:52 AM, said:

Just looked him up 10.6 LI of 6.6

Pretty suspect go out there and light it up like he did and I'm a fan of the guy. He would be perfect for SCGA Team Play...lol

-smh

His handicap got down to a 6.6...in the end of August...so right before his offseason ends. Of course it goes up after playing football for 4 months, or do you think he's got a lot of time to keep working on his game while he's in the middle of football season?

If you look at his handicap trend, he must have shot a few really low differentials in a short period of time. That would explain the quick dip to 6.6 and rebound back up.

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#42 DavePelz4

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 12:02 PM

If you look at the tournament score he posted in 2017, it was an 84 or 6 shots under bogey golf

Assuming as a team they never had a best ball bogey, Streelman had 15 birdies so Fitz needs to contribute 26 shots over 4 rounds.  He'd need 7 net birdies in round 1 to meet their posted score, 8 net birdies in round 2, 2 net birdies in round 3 and 8 net birdies in round 4.  He's getting shots on approximately 13 of the 18 holes.

Using the 84 as a basis because that's the only T score he has, he'd need to have around 6 pars/net birdies per round which is 24 shots over 4 rounds.  He'd need to only pick up 2 additional shots along the 4 rounds which seems pretty doable.

With all that said and except for the tee shot on Saturday on 17, he looked much better than an 11 index.

Edited by DavePelz4, 13 February 2018 - 12:03 PM.


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#43 raynorfan1

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 12:08 PM

View PostDavePelz4, on 13 February 2018 - 12:02 PM, said:

If you look at the tournament score he posted in 2017, it was an 84 or 6 shots under bogey golf

Assuming as a team they never had a best ball bogey, Streelman had 15 birdies so Fitz needs to contribute 26 shots over 4 rounds.  He'd need 7 net birdies in round 1 to meet their posted score, 8 net birdies in round 2, 2 net birdies in round 3 and 8 net birdies in round 4.  He's getting shots on approximately 13 of the 18 holes.

Using the 84 as a basis because that's the only T score he has, he'd need to have around 6 pars/net birdies per round which is 24 shots over 4 rounds.  He'd need to only pick up 2 additional shots along the 4 rounds which seems pretty doable.

With all that said and except for the tee shot on Saturday on 17, he looked much better than an 11 index.

You've also got to consider the very real possibility of a net eagle (or two). For a 10.6 handicap, it's entirely within the realm to get a natural birdie on a stroke hole.

Playing with a PGA pro, you also have the benefit of "going for" everything - Streelman only had two bogeys all week.

Edited by raynorfan1, 13 February 2018 - 12:08 PM.


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#44 cardoustie

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 12:20 PM

Let me toss something else out there

When I played in the pro-am at the Gretzky Nationwide event, the stars got more strokes than the schmoes . .like me.  it was a 4 day event but IIRC after 2 days only 5 or 10 teams made the last 2 rounds .. winner got an Ford Flex SUV so it was not for nothing

I know on day 1 my pahds and I were 10 under (I shot 73 getting 4 shots, made 5 gross birdies ) and we were not top 10 !!!!

Think about it, the folks running the event don't want Uncle Cardy on TV .... they want Brett Hull and Mark Messier and Wayne Gretzky (or LF in this case).  Brett Hull is a dead solid 0 or a 1 and he was getting 5 freaking shots.  Great guy by the way, he played in front of me and we had some beerskies afterwards with Ricky Barnes

A non celebrity won at Wayne's event fwiw
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#45 jlbos83

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 12:28 PM

I looked it up, as well.  It looks like he has played, and posted, almost every day in January.  And he played two rounds at Cypress before the tournament (Feb. 5 and 6, a 90 and a 92.)  His differentials ranged from 6 to almost 19, mostly in the 14-15 range.  His history for the past two years matches the football season, creeps up starting in the late summer, creeps down starting in January.  There's no evidence to suggest that he is a sandbagger.

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#46 raynorfan1

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 12:35 PM

View Postjlbos83, on 13 February 2018 - 12:28 PM, said:

I looked it up, as well.  It looks like he has played, and posted, almost every day in January.  And he played two rounds at Cypress before the tournament (Feb. 5 and 6, a 90 and a 92.)  His differentials ranged from 6 to almost 19, mostly in the 14-15 range.  His history for the past two years matches the football season, creeps up starting in the late summer, creeps down starting in January.  There's no evidence to suggest that he is a sandbagger.

But what you can't tell is how he gets to all the high 80's / low 90s. It's entirely possible to put up an 87 with 7 pars, 2 birdies, 3 bogies, and 3 double bogies and 3 7's. You line those pars and birdies up with a steady-playing partner, and you can go low in a better ball.

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#47 GMR

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 12:42 PM

View Postraynorfan1, on 13 February 2018 - 12:35 PM, said:

View Postjlbos83, on 13 February 2018 - 12:28 PM, said:

I looked it up, as well.  It looks like he has played, and posted, almost every day in January.  And he played two rounds at Cypress before the tournament (Feb. 5 and 6, a 90 and a 92.)  His differentials ranged from 6 to almost 19, mostly in the 14-15 range.  His history for the past two years matches the football season, creeps up starting in the late summer, creeps down starting in January.  There's no evidence to suggest that he is a sandbagger.

But what you can't tell is how he gets to all the high 80's / low 90s. It's entirely possible to put up an 87 with 7 pars, 2 birdies, 3 bogies, and 3 double bogies and 3 7's. You line those pars and birdies up with a steady-playing partner, and you can go low in a better ball.
Precisely it. Longer players also tend to fall into more of that type scoring pattern vs steady bogey golf with a few pars thrown in.

Edited by GMR, 13 February 2018 - 12:43 PM.


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#48 jlbos83

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 12:44 PM

View Postraynorfan1, on 13 February 2018 - 12:35 PM, said:

View Postjlbos83, on 13 February 2018 - 12:28 PM, said:

I looked it up, as well.  It looks like he has played, and posted, almost every day in January.  And he played two rounds at Cypress before the tournament (Feb. 5 and 6, a 90 and a 92.)  His differentials ranged from 6 to almost 19, mostly in the 14-15 range.  His history for the past two years matches the football season, creeps up starting in the late summer, creeps down starting in January.  There's no evidence to suggest that he is a sandbagger.

But what you can't tell is how he gets to all the high 80's / low 90s. It's entirely possible to put up an 87 with 7 pars, 2 birdies, 3 bogies, and 3 double bogies and 3 7's. You line those pars and birdies up with a steady-playing partner, and you can go low in a better ball.
I think his scores suggest that is likely.  He is not really consistent, like lots of 80s shooters!  As I said, I don't see evidence of sandbagging.  I'm happy for him!  As far as I can see, he is someone that has always done everything the right way, I can't see keeping his handicap being any different.
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#49 DavePelz4

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 12:50 PM

View Postcardoustie, on 13 February 2018 - 12:20 PM, said:

Let me toss something else out there

When I played in the pro-am at the Gretzky Nationwide event, the stars got more strokes than the schmoes . .like me.  it was a 4 day event but IIRC after 2 days only 5 or 10 teams made the last 2 rounds .. winner got an Ford Flex SUV so it was not for nothing

I know on day 1 my pahds and I were 10 under (I shot 73 getting 4 shots, made 5 gross birdies ) and we were not top 10 !!!!

Think about it, the folks running the event don't want Uncle Cardy on TV .... they want Brett Hull and Mark Messier and Wayne Gretzky (or LF in this case).  Brett Hull is a dead solid 0 or a 1 and he was getting 5 freaking shots.  Great guy by the way, he played in front of me and we had some beerskies afterwards with Ricky Barnes

A non celebrity won at Wayne's event fwiw

Whoa...I'm going pay per view if Uncle Cardy is on the telly.

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#50 Shilgy

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 07:24 PM

Streelman only made two bogeys in the tournament, both in the same round. Makes it easy for a player like Fitz to free wheel it a bit and take runs at putts.

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#51 LeftyLuck

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 08:00 PM

Meanwhile, somewhere in Arizona, Fitz is reading this thread, counting Benjamin's after Benjamin's laughing at those who care so much about a pro-am.

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#52 Golfjack

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 11:58 PM

Not much you can do about this.  Streelman helped cover him for a lot of his bad holes, and he probably is a very up and down type with lots of birdies and pars.  Like others have said, he's most likely not the steady bogey golfer type.
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#53 ebrasmus21

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 12:03 AM

View PostGMR, on 13 February 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

View Postebrasmus21, on 13 February 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

View Postpendodave, on 13 February 2018 - 08:03 AM, said:

Quote

His handicap got down to a 6.6...in the end of August...so right before his offseason ends. Of course it goes up after playing football for 4 months, or do you think he's got a lot of time to keep working on his game while he's in the middle of football season?

Interesting. This demonstrates a significant difference between the UK and US system. We (UK) only get 0.1 shots back if we fail to hit buffer (effectively 2 or 3 over our h/c) in a comp. So over here, he'd still be off 6.6 if he hadn't played since August. Even if he had played 10 rounds in the 90s since then, he would only have gone up 1 shot. Given that form is temporary and class is permanent, I think that would better reflect his abilities.

UK system sounds like it drives your number to zero more so then us yanks.
You'd think so but it's actually the opposite.  You have to beat the CSS (Competition Scratch Score) to get taken down, and there is no such thing as a "slope" adjustment.  All your scores count as well, not just the better half.  Having played under both systems I think the quality of play is roughly on average 2-3 strokes better in the UK (i.e a UK 10 plays around a US 7-8), but if you are a super-consistent guy that always shoots the same 82 you will be closer under both systems than the guy like me who mixes in 75s with my 88s (I'd be probably 4-5 strokes lower in the US).

Interesting, thanks for the detail.  IIRC there was some other thread I was on a while back and most people there also seemed to conclude that a UK scratch was likely a better scratch than one of us yanks.
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#54 lopey986

lopey986

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 08:47 AM

View Postebrasmus21, on 15 February 2018 - 12:03 AM, said:

View PostGMR, on 13 February 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

View Postebrasmus21, on 13 February 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

View Postpendodave, on 13 February 2018 - 08:03 AM, said:

Quote

His handicap got down to a 6.6...in the end of August...so right before his offseason ends. Of course it goes up after playing football for 4 months, or do you think he's got a lot of time to keep working on his game while he's in the middle of football season?

Interesting. This demonstrates a significant difference between the UK and US system. We (UK) only get 0.1 shots back if we fail to hit buffer (effectively 2 or 3 over our h/c) in a comp. So over here, he'd still be off 6.6 if he hadn't played since August. Even if he had played 10 rounds in the 90s since then, he would only have gone up 1 shot. Given that form is temporary and class is permanent, I think that would better reflect his abilities.

UK system sounds like it drives your number to zero more so then us yanks.
You'd think so but it's actually the opposite.  You have to beat the CSS (Competition Scratch Score) to get taken down, and there is no such thing as a "slope" adjustment.  All your scores count as well, not just the better half.  Having played under both systems I think the quality of play is roughly on average 2-3 strokes better in the UK (i.e a UK 10 plays around a US 7-8), but if you are a super-consistent guy that always shoots the same 82 you will be closer under both systems than the guy like me who mixes in 75s with my 88s (I'd be probably 4-5 strokes lower in the US).

Interesting, thanks for the detail.  IIRC there was some other thread I was on a while back and most people there also seemed to conclude that a UK scratch was likely a better scratch than one of us yanks.

In my opinion I feel the UK handicap system just gives you a better idea of a golfers overall skill level. The US System puts a lot of emphasis on recent play, so handicaps here can fluctuate a lot.

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