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TM Twist Face Rumor


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#61 osubuckeyes691

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:14 PM

Why is everyone hating so hard on MGS recently? All because of the Evnroll claims from last week? Or is there more that I did not see.

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#62 vanillafunk616

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:15 PM

I mean having customized bulge and roll only makes sense. Not everyone's toe miss is a hook/heel shot is a cut. I wouldn't call this a real indictment of TaylorMade even if it was true.  It's only a bad look to me if the technology doesn't actually do anything (which I may suspect to be the case).

I remember tiger's custom Nike drivers having a special bulge and roll that he liked to see.  I think it's probably fairly common.

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#63 vanillafunk616

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:17 PM

Also people who ironically say bruh say it 10x as much as the people they are mocking, and are more insufferable imo.

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#64 cvhookem63

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:18 PM

View Postosubuckeyes691, on 12 February 2018 - 12:14 PM, said:

Why is everyone hating so hard on MGS recently? All because of the Evnroll claims from last week? Or is there more that I did not see.

I'd say it is definitely more than the Evnroll stuff. I think they are rubbing people the wrong way with their general rhetoric among other things...
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#65 osubuckeyes691

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:20 PM

View Postcvhookem63, on 12 February 2018 - 12:18 PM, said:

View Postosubuckeyes691, on 12 February 2018 - 12:14 PM, said:

Why is everyone hating so hard on MGS recently? All because of the Evnroll claims from last week? Or is there more that I did not see.

I'd say it is definitely more than the Evnroll stuff. I think they are rubbing people the wrong way with their general rhetoric among other things...

Gotcha. I definitely agree they don't use the correct terminology all the time but I do have a hard time believing they're "in bed" with Evnroll or any other manufacturer after how steadfast they have been that they will never ever be compensated for reviews. Just seems like if it were ever confirmed that their entire site would be discredited in about 10 seconds haha.

I do love the Tech vs. No Tech test they say they are doing though! Lamb vs. Evnroll. IDGAF who wins but I am surely going to love seeing the responses in the forums hahaha.

Edited by osubuckeyes691, 12 February 2018 - 12:22 PM.

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#66 thesaxemachine

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:26 PM

View Postosubuckeyes691, on 12 February 2018 - 12:20 PM, said:

View Postcvhookem63, on 12 February 2018 - 12:18 PM, said:

View Postosubuckeyes691, on 12 February 2018 - 12:14 PM, said:

Why is everyone hating so hard on MGS recently? All because of the Evnroll claims from last week? Or is there more that I did not see.

I'd say it is definitely more than the Evnroll stuff. I think they are rubbing people the wrong way with their general rhetoric among other things...

Gotcha. I definitely agree they don't use the correct terminology all the time but I do have a hard time believing they're "in bed" with Evnroll or any other manufacturer after how steadfast they have been that they will never ever be compensated for reviews. Just seems like if it were ever confirmed that their entire site would be discredited in about 10 seconds haha.

I do love the Tech vs. No Tech test they say they are doing though! Lamb vs. Evnroll. IDGAF who wins but I am surely going to love seeing the responses in the forums hahaha.

I used to follow MC & MGS but to be honest, it's all just noise to me. The only way to tell what club is "most wanted" or gets me my 262 yards is to hit it. Anyone buying a club based on internet reviews deserves the poor results they get from not doing their own testing.
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#67 osubuckeyes691

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:32 PM

View Postthesaxemachine, on 12 February 2018 - 12:26 PM, said:

View Postosubuckeyes691, on 12 February 2018 - 12:20 PM, said:

View Postcvhookem63, on 12 February 2018 - 12:18 PM, said:

View Postosubuckeyes691, on 12 February 2018 - 12:14 PM, said:

Why is everyone hating so hard on MGS recently? All because of the Evnroll claims from last week? Or is there more that I did not see.

I'd say it is definitely more than the Evnroll stuff. I think they are rubbing people the wrong way with their general rhetoric among other things...

Gotcha. I definitely agree they don't use the correct terminology all the time but I do have a hard time believing they're "in bed" with Evnroll or any other manufacturer after how steadfast they have been that they will never ever be compensated for reviews. Just seems like if it were ever confirmed that their entire site would be discredited in about 10 seconds haha.

I do love the Tech vs. No Tech test they say they are doing though! Lamb vs. Evnroll. IDGAF who wins but I am surely going to love seeing the responses in the forums hahaha.

I used to follow MC & MGS but to be honest, it's all just noise to me. The only way to tell what club is "most wanted" or gets me my 262 yards is to hit it. Anyone buying a club based on internet reviews deserves the poor results they get from not doing their own testing.

I have to disagree with this. 99% of consumers can't go out and test every club they think might fit their game. It's nice to have a company that will provide (hopefully) independent testing that can at least help point a consumer in the right direction.

I think the putting test is where MGS is most helpful. IMO, if you're buying just about any club other than a putter, go get fit for the shaft and then you can pretty much pick any head that you want and see results EXTREMELY similar to each other. From personal testing I do think Evnroll tech works. Does the ball "curve?" Haha no I've never seen that. But my missed putts always seemed to be closer than I felt they would be when I played a ER1 and ER3 last year.

Honestly I will probably pick up the new model ER3 and/or the 1.2 this year.
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#68 jll62

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:34 PM

View Postcvhookem63, on 12 February 2018 - 12:18 PM, said:

View Postosubuckeyes691, on 12 February 2018 - 12:14 PM, said:

Why is everyone hating so hard on MGS recently? All because of the Evnroll claims from last week? Or is there more that I did not see.

I'd say it is definitely more than the Evnroll stuff. I think they are rubbing people the wrong way with their general rhetoric among other things...

For me, their obvious bias against companies who don't participate in the MGS testing has gotten very old and tiring. The constant "These companies didn't send equipment, so it shows they have something to hide!" rhetoric was just too much. And then they continue to take shots at these companies after the fact.

Recently, they had a spat with TaylorMade regarding sponsorship deals and who gets paid to play equipment. Even after someone from TaylorMade gave them facts, MGS still complains about wanting "transparency." To an outsider like me, they only seem concerned with facts when it fits their narrative. That's a problem when your whole brand is built on truth and data.

The Evnroll spat with Phil Kenyon didn't do them any favors, either. They need more informed people representing their brand.

Edited by jll62, 12 February 2018 - 12:37 PM.

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#69 Z1ggy16

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:48 PM

View Postosubuckeyes691, on 12 February 2018 - 12:14 PM, said:

Why is everyone hating so hard on MGS recently? All because of the Evnroll claims from last week? Or is there more that I did not see.
I don't know about other people, but they are sounding like used car sales people now. I get emails all the time like, this "Is it REALLY the number one ball in the market now????! ////1!?!?!1/1!?!?!!?!?" or just the other day, "SHOTS FIRED!!! Callway vs Titleist". Wtf???

They've just seemed to have gone from a small little company that did honest and open testing that was pretty much just test a club, post the data  to trying to convince me that one companies stuff is or isn't good, that company A's claims are bogus, reporting on golf news, etc.

Just test clubs, I don't want your opinion. Post the data that's relevant and then rinse and repeat. And it's not even because I use this data to buy clubs, I just like seeing data that you can't get out of an OEM (like CG placement relative to other clubs, MOI, etc).

View Postjll62, on 12 February 2018 - 12:34 PM, said:

View Postcvhookem63, on 12 February 2018 - 12:18 PM, said:

View Postosubuckeyes691, on 12 February 2018 - 12:14 PM, said:

Why is everyone hating so hard on MGS recently? All because of the Evnroll claims from last week? Or is there more that I did not see.

I'd say it is definitely more than the Evnroll stuff. I think they are rubbing people the wrong way with their general rhetoric among other things...

For me, their obvious bias against companies who don't participate in the MGS testing has gotten very old and tiring. The constant "These companies didn't send equipment, so it shows they have something to hide!" rhetoric was just too much. And then they continue to take shots at these companies after the fact.

Recently, they had a spat with TaylorMade regarding sponsorship deals and who gets paid to play equipment. Even after someone from TaylorMade gave them facts, MGS still complains about wanting "transparency." To an outsider like me, they only seem concerned with facts when it fits their narrative. That's a problem when your whole brand is built on truth and data.

The Evnroll spat with Phil Kenyon didn't do them any favors, either. They need more informed people representing their brand.
Can you post link or give background to EVNROLL thing?? I know the past 2 years they loved them.... did they decide to stop sending MGS putters?
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#70 cvhookem63

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:54 PM

View PostZ1ggy16, on 12 February 2018 - 12:48 PM, said:

View Postosubuckeyes691, on 12 February 2018 - 12:14 PM, said:

Why is everyone hating so hard on MGS recently? All because of the Evnroll claims from last week? Or is there more that I did not see.
I don't know about other people, but they are sounding like used car sales people now. I get emails all the time like, this "Is it REALLY the number one ball in the market now????! ////1!?!?!1/1!?!?!!?!?" or just the other day, "SHOTS FIRED!!! Callway vs Titleist". Wtf???

They've just seemed to have gone from a small little company that did honest and open testing that was pretty much just test a club, post the data  to trying to convince me that one companies stuff is or isn't good, that company A's claims are bogus, reporting on golf news, etc.

Just test clubs, I don't want your opinion. Post the data that's relevant and then rinse and repeat. And it's not even because I use this data to buy clubs, I just like seeing data that you can't get out of an OEM (like CG placement relative to other clubs, MOI, etc).

View Postjll62, on 12 February 2018 - 12:34 PM, said:

View Postcvhookem63, on 12 February 2018 - 12:18 PM, said:

View Postosubuckeyes691, on 12 February 2018 - 12:14 PM, said:

Why is everyone hating so hard on MGS recently? All because of the Evnroll claims from last week? Or is there more that I did not see.

I'd say it is definitely more than the Evnroll stuff. I think they are rubbing people the wrong way with their general rhetoric among other things...

For me, their obvious bias against companies who don't participate in the MGS testing has gotten very old and tiring. The constant "These companies didn't send equipment, so it shows they have something to hide!" rhetoric was just too much. And then they continue to take shots at these companies after the fact.

Recently, they had a spat with TaylorMade regarding sponsorship deals and who gets paid to play equipment. Even after someone from TaylorMade gave them facts, MGS still complains about wanting "transparency." To an outsider like me, they only seem concerned with facts when it fits their narrative. That's a problem when your whole brand is built on truth and data.

The Evnroll spat with Phil Kenyon didn't do them any favors, either. They need more informed people representing their brand.
Can you post link or give background to EVNROLL thing?? I know the past 2 years they loved them.... did they decide to stop sending MGS putters?

MGS posted this last week and took quite a bit of flak for it being absolutely false. Basically saying that "tech" putters auto-correct the path of the ball on mis-hits.

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#71 lspky_muskie

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:57 PM

They've been pushing the Evnroll self-correcting roll since the day I heard if Evnroll.

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#72 PatsNation

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:58 PM

Sounds like a twist face putter
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#73 gioguy21

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:59 PM

View PostChunk777, on 12 February 2018 - 12:58 PM, said:

Sounds like a twist face putter
*takes to twitter*

"so, evnroll - this is just a question, been hearing rumors your putter has twist face, is this true?"

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#74 JonnyKrasnodar

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:59 PM

View PostQuigleyDU, on 12 February 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

seems to me though that he wouldn't be making this up. There is currently a lot of risk for him to make up something, He tagged some other reputable equipment testers looking to get an answer to the question. I would say that he is legitimately asking. just comes across wrong because of his ongoing beef with TM and his current persona. Also, as a person that "appears' to try and be at the forefront of golf equipment knowledge, that he would know what resources were available to verify before reaching out to secondary sources.

I think the group tagged must believe there to be something to it. The number of people who have tested it and bought them only to find it doing the opposite of what they thought raises the question of why Tour players haven't suffered the same. Yes they're pros but Rory hitting a 60 yard cut would surely have exaggerated negative co consequences compared to Average Joe. If people on the ground notice it then you'd expect some Tour Pros not to use it. Be interesting to see how it develops if only for the ant Crossfield LOLZ comments.

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#75 scratchswinger

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:01 PM

MGS is all about click-bait.


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#76 Z1ggy16

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:05 PM

Oh I saw that picture on IG.... I thought Evnroll's IG account posted it?

From the data I saw on youtube from Alistair Davies, the Evrnoll putters do produce a minor amount of side spin on off center hits.... but something so small it's negligible, like 2 rpm or something. It wouldn't be enough to physically make a ball curve like that. Fast forward in the video to 3:45. Although, I do notice the face angle is not 100% square to path (it's -.12) so I do not know if the side spin is caused by gearing, or because face to path was not 0.
This is the video I'm talking about... Maybe I just interpreted it wrong:

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#77 Llortamaisey

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:09 PM

I wonder who started this rumor. Could you imagine if it was Callaway or Titleist? That would be like Taylormade claiming Callaway used non-conforming Epics in their fitting carts to sell more drivers.

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#78 J13

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:11 PM

I saw the drawing last week and just shook my head.  MGS does a good job at testing (especially the MOI and COG drivers test) but one person there in particular gets real butt hurt when he doesn't get his way.  The bias is very transparent which degrades the testing they do.
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#79 JonnyKrasnodar

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:17 PM

Must be having a bad day, he was moaning about his bank again. You'd think after years of poor service he'd move. Ah well.

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#80 the bishop

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:25 PM

View Postjll62, on 12 February 2018 - 12:34 PM, said:

View Postcvhookem63, on 12 February 2018 - 12:18 PM, said:

View Postosubuckeyes691, on 12 February 2018 - 12:14 PM, said:

Why is everyone hating so hard on MGS recently? All because of the Evnroll claims from last week? Or is there more that I did not see.

I'd say it is definitely more than the Evnroll stuff. I think they are rubbing people the wrong way with their general rhetoric among other things...

For me, their obvious bias against companies who don't participate in the MGS testing has gotten very old and tiring. The constant "These companies didn't send equipment, so it shows they have something to hide!" rhetoric was just too much. And then they continue to take shots at these companies after the fact.

Recently, they had a spat with TaylorMade regarding sponsorship deals and who gets paid to play equipment. Even after someone from TaylorMade gave them facts, MGS still complains about wanting "transparency." To an outsider like me, they only seem concerned with facts when it fits their narrative. That's a problem when your whole brand is built on truth and data.

The Evnroll spat with Phil Kenyon didn't do them any favors, either. They need more informed people representing their brand.
Just scrolled through the Kenyon twitter feed on this and it was pretty amusing.  Word to Chris Nickel - when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

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#81 TollBros

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:26 PM

View PostTexasCarlos, on 12 February 2018 - 09:49 AM, said:

Crossfield is salty about TM not sending him anything, Mark just trying to stir the pot.  Twistface really isn't detrimental to a professional. Crossfield always bashes tech and features simply because he likes to pander to the people that watch his videos and hardly understand what to look for in a club.

We have a winner. Now that doesn't mean there couldn't be non twist face heads at some point. Taylormade is excellent about making Tour specific product for their staffers, but I would think such a thing would require a USGA retest since the actual construction would be altered.
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#82 markheardjr

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:35 PM

IBTL

Edited by markheardjr, 12 February 2018 - 01:35 PM.

NIPPON SHAFT TRIALS!! Get in on a pay-it-forward type shaft testing!
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#83 Water Hazard

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:37 PM

I unfollowed MC on twitter.

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#84 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:40 PM

View PostTollBros, on 12 February 2018 - 01:26 PM, said:

View PostTexasCarlos, on 12 February 2018 - 09:49 AM, said:

Crossfield is salty about TM not sending him anything, Mark just trying to stir the pot.  Twistface really isn't detrimental to a professional. Crossfield always bashes tech and features simply because he likes to pander to the people that watch his videos and hardly understand what to look for in a club.

We have a winner. Now that doesn't mean there couldn't be non twist face heads at some point. Taylormade is excellent about making Tour specific product for their staffers, but I would think such a thing would require a USGA retest since the actual construction would be altered.


Well if Tiger keeps hitting his M3 as crappy as he did at Torrey two weeks ago I wouldn’t be surprised at all by a new Tiger “Tour”  version popping up. ; )
9.5* Cobra LTD,  Old school Grafalloy Blue, 43.5"
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#85 thesaxemachine

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:46 PM

View PostWater Hazard, on 12 February 2018 - 01:37 PM, said:

I unfollowed MC on twitter.

lol that'll show him

But yeah, unfollowed him on all social media a while ago as well. Every single review was exactly the same.

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#86 Z1ggy16

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:49 PM

View Postthesaxemachine, on 12 February 2018 - 01:46 PM, said:

View PostWater Hazard, on 12 February 2018 - 01:37 PM, said:

I unfollowed MC on twitter.

lol that'll show him

But yeah, unfollowed him on all social media a while ago as well. Every single review was exactly the same.
Not defending him, but what do you expect? Distances aren't changing... MOI can only go so far... The story is the same year after year. He's just more open about it. RS will act like there's all this new stuff going on, when the answer is always simple: Go get fit and find out what you need for yourself. Minor changes in looks, feel, sound can matter but it's totally subjective and down to the individual.
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#87 mister2cool

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:51 PM

Wow such heated debate over something I think means absolutely nothing to the pros. Twist face is meant to help with shots on high toe and low heel. Those pros wear out center of the club face the size of a dime, having twist face or not really means nothing to them.
It is only logical if they did pick clubs with as little bulge and roll as possible, and wouldn't surprise me the least bit.
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Putter... Who needs that?

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#88 SwooshLT

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:51 PM

View PostZ1ggy16, on 12 February 2018 - 01:49 PM, said:

View Postthesaxemachine, on 12 February 2018 - 01:46 PM, said:

View PostWater Hazard, on 12 February 2018 - 01:37 PM, said:

I unfollowed MC on twitter.

lol that'll show him

But yeah, unfollowed him on all social media a while ago as well. Every single review was exactly the same.
Not defending him, but what do you expect? Distances aren't changing... MOI can only go so far... The story is the same year after year. He's just more open about it. RS will act like there's all this new stuff going on, when the answer is always simple: Go get fit and find out what you need for yourself. Minor changes in looks, feel, sound can matter but it's totally subjective and down to the individual.

These are facts.....but if you can get fit with a plethora of shafts to try, there is distance and consistency to be gained!

28

#89 Z1ggy16

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 02:06 PM

View PostSwooshLT, on 12 February 2018 - 01:51 PM, said:

View PostZ1ggy16, on 12 February 2018 - 01:49 PM, said:

View Postthesaxemachine, on 12 February 2018 - 01:46 PM, said:

View PostWater Hazard, on 12 February 2018 - 01:37 PM, said:

I unfollowed MC on twitter.

lol that'll show him

But yeah, unfollowed him on all social media a while ago as well. Every single review was exactly the same.
Not defending him, but what do you expect? Distances aren't changing... MOI can only go so far... The story is the same year after year. He's just more open about it. RS will act like there's all this new stuff going on, when the answer is always simple: Go get fit and find out what you need for yourself. Minor changes in looks, feel, sound can matter but it's totally subjective and down to the individual.

These are facts.....but if you can get fit with a plethora of shafts to try, there is distance and consistency to be gained!
Yeah due to optimizing the shaft mostly.

I went from a Tensei Blue in my M2 and only changing shaft to a speeder evo ii, gained like 10mph ball speed and probably .08 on smash factor. Changing head with the same shaft might have gained me .01 smash and 2mph speed. Putting a new head on my new shaft might then only gain me 1mph speed from there, and .005 on smash (basically, negligible). I know it's anecdote, but I literally just experienced this last week.

Forgiveness certainly could go up say between my current M2 and a G400, but I'm not going to get measurable differences taking 10 swings. Maybe over the course of 500+ swings during a season, I could see some changes in FIR or total distance.
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29

#90 dalton044

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 02:19 PM

View PostTollBros, on 12 February 2018 - 01:26 PM, said:

View PostTexasCarlos, on 12 February 2018 - 09:49 AM, said:

Crossfield is salty about TM not sending him anything, Mark just trying to stir the pot.  Twistface really isn't detrimental to a professional. Crossfield always bashes tech and features simply because he likes to pander to the people that watch his videos and hardly understand what to look for in a club.

We have a winner. Now that doesn't mean there couldn't be non twist face heads at some point. Taylormade is excellent about making Tour specific product for their staffers, but I would think such a thing would require a USGA retest since the actual construction would be altered.
Iā€™m not expert, but I don€™t see how eliminating twist face would call for retest. All they would be doing is tweaking the loft on the driver face. Twist face is basically is variable lofts across the face. Tigers unicorn€¯€¯ driver looked like the crown of a 17 and sole of 16€™ M2 stuck together surely that would have required testing if a different lofted€¯ face would.

Edited by dalton044, 12 February 2018 - 02:23 PM.

-Tour Issue 16' M2 10.5* LTD D+ 70 S
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-z785 4-PW C-Taper Lite X
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