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chipping rollout of 8,9,PW differences just practice?


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#61 nsxguy

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 09:18 AM

View PostNorth Butte, on 13 February 2018 - 06:45 AM, said:

So we should use a Rule that almost never actually applies, in order to get the ball rolling as soon as possible except not right away but instead after we fly it through the air onto the green. And they say golf is complicated!

P.S. all we need now is a Rule for pacing off putts and taking the putt back 2 inches for every 3 paces, that will greatly simplify lag putting distance control

I have to wonder what percentage of our reading audience (including yourself BTW) did NOT know that, regarding chipping, "get the ball rolling as soon as possible" meant once it hits the green,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, maybe we should do a poll ?

And I guess everyone from now on is going to get the royal treatment from you. That's good actually - it'll make you easier to ignore.

So since you're going to take everything so literally now I thought I'd help you a little.

That's "all" we need ? Are you sure ? Who knew ?

But are you sure about that 2 inches for every 3 paces ? Not 4 ? Or 5 ? (inches or paces LOL)

Surprising for someone with such a high handicap, (or is it low now ? I mean you did keep changing it for a while) who knows so much about "everything" golf, can't keep away from the keyboard and uses such "big" words, to have to have everything explain to him. Or is it ?

Edited by nsxguy, 13 February 2018 - 10:54 PM.

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#62 North Butte

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 09:29 AM

This story has changed so many times I can't keep track.

Is the "rule of 12" about landing the ball on the green or landing it short of the green or sometimes on and sometimes short, depending?

And does "on the ground asap" mean "as soon as possible once it's on the green" or literally "as soon as possible"?

If I'm standing 15 yards short of the green in the fairway, there is a choice between "getting the ball rolling" immediately with my putter vs. flying it a few yards and "getting the ball rolling" in the fairway part way to the green vs. flying it 15+ yards and "getting the ball rolling" on the green after it has flown most of the way to the hole.

Answer me clearly. In those situations are you advising:

1) to roll the ball immediately (as with a putter)
2) to play what normal people call a bump and run that flies a short distance but starts rolling well before the green
3) to fly the ball onto the green then roll the rest of the way to the hole
Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.

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#63 MrJones

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 09:40 AM

View PostNorth Butte, on 13 February 2018 - 09:29 AM, said:

Answer me clearly. In those situations are you advising:

1) to roll the ball immediately (as with a putter)
2) to play what normal people call a bump and run that flies a short distance but starts rolling well before the green
3) to fly the ball onto the green then roll the rest of the way to the hole
Bump and run? Are you saying I should bump the ball and then take off running??? :)

1. No. The rule is for chipping onto a green. It's not very common for people to land wedge shots purposely off a green and expect precise results when the ball bounces/rolls on. People want chip and pitch balls onto the green in most cases.
2. The plan is to use the club that would allow you to carry any given distance over rough/fringe onto a green and have it land and roll ASAP. The roll out distance is determined by the loft of the club used for the shot. Rule of 12 is a fairly accurate baseline for what shots will do based on their loft.
3. Yes.
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#64 Mike73

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 09:42 AM

This has been a long winter.

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#65 Cicero

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 09:52 AM

View PostNorth Butte, on 13 February 2018 - 09:29 AM, said:

This story has changed so many times I can't keep track.

Is the "rule of 12" about landing the ball on the green or landing it short of the green or sometimes on and sometimes short, depending?

And does "on the ground asap" mean "as soon as possible once it's on the green" or literally "as soon as possible"?

If I'm standing 15 yards short of the green in the fairway, there is a choice between "getting the ball rolling" immediately with my putter vs. flying it a few yards and "getting the ball rolling" in the fairway part way to the green vs. flying it 15+ yards and "getting the ball rolling" on the green after it has flown most of the way to the hole.

Answer me clearly. In those situations are you advising:

1) to roll the ball immediately (as with a putter)
2) to play what normal people call a bump and run that flies a short distance but starts rolling well before the green
3) to fly the ball onto the green then roll the rest of the way to the hole

The main point of The Rule of 12 and similar approaches is giving the user an idea of carry-to-roll ratio for various chipping clubs for a flat lie.  Lie, green speed and slope, club loft, etc are adjustments one will make to get the desired result.

As far as “rolling as soon as possible” in a chipping context, my impression has been that most people mean on the green, meaning fly it only as far as you need to get the ball on the putting surface and rolling like a putt (1-3 feet on to allow some margin for error).


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#66 TheCityGame

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 10:12 AM

The Rule of 12 is shorthand for, "less lofted clubs roll out more and I thought I'd name it something vaguely science-y to make it seem like I understand this at a deep level."

The variables at play make it almost completely invalid for every single application.
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#67 premazipp

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 10:17 AM

I've always played to get the ball "on the green" as soon as possible, really meaning as far away from the pin and closest to me as possible, so the ball can then behave like a putt towards the hole. Bump and run is different. Depending on how much green I have to work with and if there are obstacle between me and the front edge of the green, I generally choose chip>pitch>flop.
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#68 MrJones

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 10:40 AM

I'd suggest that anyone that doesn't know anything about the Rule of 12 just google it and watch the first video that pops up on Golf.com with a top 100 teacher of the year explaining how to use it.
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#69 Cicero

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 10:42 AM

View PostTheCityGame, on 13 February 2018 - 10:12 AM, said:

The Rule of 12 is shorthand for, "less lofted clubs roll out more and I thought I'd name it something vaguely science-y to make it seem like I understand this at a deep level."

The variables at play make it almost completely invalid for every single application.

In practice, I found the opposite to be true.  I distinctly remember one situation where I was above the hole, about 4ft off the green, downhill, about 40 feet or so away.  Applying this rule, I picked the club that I would use to hit my landing spot for a flat chip.  Because I knew it would roll more being downhill, I grabbed the next highest lofted club.  I chipped it to 3’.    

It’s just a starting point, a framework.  And like any other framework, you’ll have to build on it.  The fact that you have to build on a framework doesn’t invalidate it; that’s the nature of the thing.



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#70 Cicero

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 10:53 AM

View PostMrJones, on 13 February 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

I'd suggest that anyone that doesn't know anything about the Rule of 12 just google it and watch the first video that pops up on Golf.com with a top 100 teacher of the year explaining how to use it.

Or better yet, google Paul Runyan.  He’s the Hall of Fame pro nicknamed Little Poison who used and taught the Rule of 11.  He noted for blowing out Sam Snead in the PGA, in spite of the fact that he was a notably short.


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#71 North Butte

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 11:04 AM

This must be aimed at the same golfers who back in the day had pieces of tape with their "Pelz Clock" yardages taped to their wedge shafts.
Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.

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#72 Cicero

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 11:12 AM

View PostNorth Butte, on 13 February 2018 - 11:04 AM, said:

This must be aimed at the same golfers who back in the day had pieces of tape with their "Pelz Clock" yardages taped to their wedge shafts.

Not necessarily.  I couldn’t make the clock work at all.  Took way more practice time than I had.  I was much better off feeling I was tossing the ball with the club on pitches.

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#73 NDS55

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 12:51 PM

"The rule of 12" is just "a rule of thumb". I find that the increment gaps when using the more lofted clubs are disproportionate to the differences between longer clubs. If you know which club will roll out to the hole if you land it half way there, which one will roll out if you land it on third of the way, and one quarter of the distance, then you are using the same principle. Unless there are undulations or tiers to contend with, I prefer to land on the green within two paces and let it run. Yips happen more frequently when close to the target, so that is where consistency is more important, especially for the less skilled.
If making adjustments to tempo or length of stroke was more consistent, then I could just gauge how much to take off the swung with a 5i from the fairway instead of the 7i from 160 yards under most conditions. Variations in shot situation is what makes every round of golf different from the one before, even if played on the same course from the same set of tees, especially for the less skilled. Most mid and hi handicappers are not getting up and down from off of the green, and should be open to trying a method that might improve consistency.

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