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Anybody use 17 / 21 hybrid combo and dump fairway woods??


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#31 twgolf78

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 04:19 PM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 11 February 2018 - 01:37 PM, said:

View Postnp78, on 03 February 2018 - 06:54 PM, said:

I haven't hit a good fairway shot in 10 years.

Did you end up with the xforged 2018 or the Ap2s?

http://www.golfwrx.c...4#entry16526434

If you literally haven't hit a good fairway in 10 years, you may need more forgiveness in your irons.

I'm mostly messing with you, but this thread is a perfect example of how we make up nonsense in our heads to try to explain our games.  There is no way you got the best numbers out of all the irons you tried with a forged blade and you literally cannot hit a 3 wood.

I almost play to scratch and still can't hit a fairway wood...


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#32 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 04:57 PM

View Posttwgolf78, on 11 February 2018 - 04:19 PM, said:

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 11 February 2018 - 01:37 PM, said:

View Postnp78, on 03 February 2018 - 06:54 PM, said:

I haven't hit a good fairway shot in 10 years.

Did you end up with the xforged 2018 or the Ap2s?

http://www.golfwrx.c...4#entry16526434

If you literally haven't hit a good fairway in 10 years, you may need more forgiveness in your irons.

I'm mostly messing with you, but this thread is a perfect example of how we make up nonsense in our heads to try to explain our games.  There is no way you got the best numbers out of all the irons you tried with a forged blade and you literally cannot hit a 3 wood.

I almost play to scratch and still can't hit a fairway wood...

Have you hit a good one at any time in the last ten years?

Edited by pinestreetgolf, 11 February 2018 - 04:57 PM.

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#33 twgolf78

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 05:18 PM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 11 February 2018 - 04:57 PM, said:

View Posttwgolf78, on 11 February 2018 - 04:19 PM, said:

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 11 February 2018 - 01:37 PM, said:

View Postnp78, on 03 February 2018 - 06:54 PM, said:

I haven't hit a good fairway shot in 10 years.

Did you end up with the xforged 2018 or the Ap2s?

http://www.golfwrx.c...4#entry16526434

If you literally haven't hit a good fairway in 10 years, you may need more forgiveness in your irons.

I'm mostly messing with you, but this thread is a perfect example of how we make up nonsense in our heads to try to explain our games.  There is no way you got the best numbers out of all the irons you tried with a forged blade and you literally cannot hit a 3 wood.

I almost play to scratch and still can't hit a fairway wood...

Have you hit a good one at any time in the last ten years?

honestly not too many - topped a 3 wood on number 10 in my club championship - at that point I was 2 under and tied for the lead.

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#34 irishmike27

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 05:37 PM

I’ve finally found a modern 4 wood I’m comfortable with, that replaces an extremely old school laminated maple 4 wood. I’ve thought about the low lofted hybrid option too. Not a great player, but I feel the tendency to try to get something extra out of a club happens WAY more with a fairway than a hybrid-which is why so many of us have a hard time with them.

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#35 J2putts

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 09:35 PM

I've actually been contemplating this as well. I hit 3 wood off the deck last year MAYBE ten times ? I have a 19 degree and 22 degree hybrid. The 19 degree i use 99% of the time for my 2nd shot on par 5's. Hit it comfortably around 220. Definitely thinking about ditching the 3 wood , 3 hybrid and going with a 2 hybrid and maybe a 20 degree hybrid ...then into 4 thru wedges

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#36 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 10:06 PM

View Posttwgolf78, on 11 February 2018 - 05:18 PM, said:

honestly not too many - topped a 3 wood on number 10 in my club championship - at that point I was 2 under and tied for the lead.

Agree you should drop the 3 wood then.  After Mahan stubbed that chip in the Ryder Cup he should have added an alien wedge because he obviously just can't hit wedges.

You hit enough 3 woods, you'll hit some that stink.  Golf is played in grey.  Nobody with your stated skill "can't hit" a fairway wood.  You're worse than your expectation, which is translated to "can't hit" in your head, which leads to bad decisions.  Its like Hoffman from earlier in the thread.  He was better from 100 than 50 but the 50 shot still gave him the better score. The issue is that people think "which of these two clubs do i hit better relative to how i think i should be able to hit them i.e. which is less embarrassing" not "which of these two clubs do i score lower with over time".  That's not even close to the same thing.  Embarrassment over topping a 3 wood is a much more powerful emotion than disappointment at scoring a bit lower because your gapping isn't great (which is why people bag easier to hit clubs that don't make sense distance wise in their bag) but if all we care about is score then the embarrassment is irrelevant.

I mean, come on.  We have plus caps and guys who game forged blades down to 3 iron telling us they "can't hit" a SGI three wood.  I'm sure I'll get a ton of "you can't tell people their game" nonsense but that is ridiculous.  What they mean is "I can't hit it as well as I and the people I play with think I should be able to, and its embarrassing."

Score is all that matters when building a bag.  Good gapping leads to lower scores for good golfers.

There are worse golfers who shouldn't play a 3 wood.  This isn't directed at them.

Edited by pinestreetgolf, 11 February 2018 - 10:12 PM.

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#37 J2putts

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 10:02 PM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 11 February 2018 - 08:45 AM, said:

Ugh, this again.  "Hey guys, struggling with my six iron.  Considering pulling it for a seven iron.  It goes shorter, but I can hit it better.  Thoughts?"

*massive eye roll*

It doesn't matter how good you hit the club.  Build your bag for the shots you need on the course not so they look pretty while you come up 15 yards short.  If your course allows for a 17 hybrid into the par 5s, play it.  If not, play a 3 wood.

You don't play an iron set that only has the irons your good at hitting in it, you play an iron set that has solid gapping.  You don't play woods that only has the clubs you are good at hitting in it, you play a wood set that has solid gapping.

View Postnp78, on 03 February 2018 - 06:54 PM, said:

I haven't hit a good fairway shot in 10 years.

Right, so the guy who was asking us in another thread which set of incredibly hard to hit blades to get hasn't hit a good fairway shot in a decade.  OK.
and what good is that gapping when you have a club at a certain yardage that you struggle to hit somewhat consistently !? Idk how keeping a club in your bag that you may hit the gapping yardage once out of only 5 times you swing helps your game?
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#38 mukster

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 10:14 PM

I  have driver, 3 wood, 17 and 21 degree hybrids. My 17 is s beast when I am swinging well, but it is more like a 5 wood and the 3 wood deserves its place in the bag. One less wedge for me, so this could eventually change.
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#39 EaglesGolf99

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 11:13 PM

I went 16° & 20° Hybrid last Saturday, 5 days ago!

The Swing Doc and I have been strictly working on this and have come to the conclusion that after a series of swing changes my swing just doesn't gel with a Fairway Wood any longer.

Driver
16° Hybrid (ETL closer to 14.5°)
20° Hybrid (ETL closer to 18.5°)
23° Hybrid (ETL closer to 21.5°)
26° Hybrid (ETL closer to 25.0°)
6-P (32°-48°)
52°
58°
Putter

Haven't decided on a 14th club.

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#40 acemandrake

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 09:21 AM

View PostRaidersgolf99, on 28 February 2018 - 11:13 PM, said:

I went 16° & 20° Hybrid last Saturday, 5 days ago!

The Swing Doc and I have been strictly working on this and have come to the conclusion that after a series of swing changes my swing just doesn't gel with a Fairway Wood any longer.

Driver
16° Hybrid (ETL closer to 14.5°)
20° Hybrid (ETL closer to 18.5°)
23° Hybrid (ETL closer to 21.5°)
26° Hybrid (ETL closer to 25.0°)
6-P (32°-48°)
52°
58°
Putter

Haven't decided on a 14th club.


What does "ETL" stand for? (Effective ___ Loft?)


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#41 Mych

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 08:01 PM



View Postacemandrake, on 01 March 2018 - 09:21 AM, said:

View PostRaidersgolf99, on 28 February 2018 - 11:13 PM, said:

I went 16° & 20° Hybrid last Saturday, 5 days ago!

The Swing Doc and I have been strictly working on this and have come to the conclusion that after a series of swing changes my swing just doesn't gel with a Fairway Wood any longer.

Driver
16° Hybrid (ETL closer to 14.5°)
20° Hybrid (ETL closer to 18.5°)
23° Hybrid (ETL closer to 21.5°)
26° Hybrid (ETL closer to 25.0°)
6-P (32°-48°)
52°
58°
Putter

Haven't decided on a 14th club.


What does "ETL" stand for? (Effective ___ Loft?)

Good question... True? Total? I can't figure it out either.
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#42 TheMotorCity

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 08:10 PM

I tried to go with a hybrid  to replace my 5 wood. Distance gaps were to far apart, plus I turn into a hook machine with hybrids.

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#43 lacosteguy

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 08:11 PM

I use a 17 and 21 combo...and makes all the help in the world for me. For the short par 4's, long par 5's, I use the 17 and know I will be long and straight. I'm sure I could squeeze out a few more yards from a 3 wood, but no chance it will be as accurate and forgiving.

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#44 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 08:18 PM

View Postlacosteguy, on 01 March 2018 - 08:11 PM, said:

I use a 17 and 21 combo...and makes all the help in the world for me. For the short par 4's, long par 5's, I use the 17 and know I will be long and straight. I'm sure I could squeeze out a few more yards from a 3 wood, but no chance it will be as accurate and forgiving.

This thinking is why i post in these threads.  Why do you assume shorter and straighter = better score?

Shouldn't you evaluate the clubs based on which produces the lower scores, not which produces the prettiest shots?
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#45 EaglesGolf99

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 11:17 PM

View Postacemandrake, on 01 March 2018 - 09:21 AM, said:

View PostRaidersgolf99, on 28 February 2018 - 11:13 PM, said:

I went 16° & 20° Hybrid last Saturday, 5 days ago!

The Swing Doc and I have been strictly working on this and have come to the conclusion that after a series of swing changes my swing just doesn't gel with a Fairway Wood any longer.

Driver
16° Hybrid (ETL closer to 14.5°)
20° Hybrid (ETL closer to 18.5°)
23° Hybrid (ETL closer to 21.5°)
26° Hybrid (ETL closer to 25.0°)
6-P (32°-48°)
52°
58°
Putter

Haven't decided on a 14th club.


What does "ETL" stand for? (Effective ___ Loft?)

Effective True Loft

.... Taking into consideration the face angle.

When I first got my 1H, that sucker was 7.5° Open! I've since had it squared up a bit to 6.0° Open! LMAO!

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#46 matchavez

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 03:33 AM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 01 March 2018 - 08:18 PM, said:

View Postlacosteguy, on 01 March 2018 - 08:11 PM, said:

I use a 17 and 21 combo...and makes all the help in the world for me. For the short par 4's, long par 5's, I use the 17 and know I will be long and straight. I'm sure I could squeeze out a few more yards from a 3 wood, but no chance it will be as accurate and forgiving.

This thinking is why i post in these threads.  Why do you assume shorter and straighter = better score?

Shouldn't you evaluate the clubs based on which produces the lower scores, not which produces the prettiest shots?

Pine, for a dude who faps over stats, you need to chill on something you’re wrong about.

If someone doesn’t have a shot in their repertoire, the stats say drop the club. If you hit a 7-iron 140, and you top half your 3-Woods for an average of 130, then what’s the play? You know it isn’t 3-wood.

If someone flushes a 2h, but fails at a 3w, telling them to keep playing the 3w is just bad dogma. The statistics are simple; after driver, you should be playing the club you can consistently hit longest off the ground.

It is not “you should play the longest club off the deck 3w only because stats”. If you carry your concept to the absurd, you should be hitting driver off the deck with that rationale. That’s not practical.

All due respect, you lose credibility this way.

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#47 elwhippy

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 04:07 AM

My current set up is 15.5 degree Steelhead 4+ with a 17 degree Ping G400 and 21 Degree R15. On the range last week I hit the hybrid further than the 4+. The Cally is easier to hit but no longer.

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#48 asw7576

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 06:14 AM

I am with 19 and 25 hybrids.

I gave up fw last year ... ( 3 years of bad  relationships )
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#49 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 09:19 AM

View Postmatchavez, on 02 March 2018 - 03:33 AM, said:

Pine, for a dude who faps over stats, you need to chill on something you're wrong about.

The statistics are simple; after driver, you should be playing the club you can consistently hit longest off the ground.

I totally agree with your post.  The poster himself said the three wood is longer off the ground.

Speaking of taking things to extremes, I'm obviously not advocating topping four three woods a round.  I'm suggesting that people judge the quality of a shot based on how it looks and feels and not the scores it creates because they "keep track" using a mixture of memory and emotion, which is going to weight heavily toward massively embarrassing or rewarding shots - its how our brains work.  High and straight is only good if your alignment is good, for example.  I've literally played a round with a guy who cursed after thinning a mid-iron to the back fringe but, on a par 3, hit a gorgeous shot into the water, turned to me and said "got it good though" while smiling.  It went in the damn water, and he is telling himself "good job" - meanwhile the other one is on the green, and he is storing "bad shot".

I'm not arguing that more people should hit 3 wood out of some sort of blind dogma, I'm arguing more people should hit longer clubs and be more aggressive because *they are better than they think they are with those clubs*.  Our brains are trained to avoid embarrassment and fear more than they are incentivized to get after it.  I think a whole lot of people would score lower if they played clubs based on their actual games and not the narrative they've made up in their head about their games.

You'll note that in the post I replied to the gentleman talked at length about why he plays a hybrid instead of a three wood.  How many times did he mention score?

Not once.

if someone actually measures it and determines - over a reasonable sample - that they are significantly better with a higher lofted wood and 3 wood is a wasted spot, you won't hear a peep from me.  But these memories and desires to hit pretty shots masquerading as scoring statistics lead to awful decisions.

Edited by pinestreetgolf, 02 March 2018 - 09:25 AM.

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#50 matchavez

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 04:39 AM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 02 March 2018 - 09:19 AM, said:

View Postmatchavez, on 02 March 2018 - 03:33 AM, said:

Pine, for a dude who faps over stats, you need to chill on something you're wrong about.

The statistics are simple; after driver, you should be playing the club you can consistently hit longest off the ground.

I totally agree with your post.  The poster himself said the three wood is longer off the ground.

Speaking of taking things to extremes, I'm obviously not advocating topping four three woods a round.  I'm suggesting that people judge the quality of a shot based on how it looks and feels and not the scores it creates because they "keep track" using a mixture of memory and emotion, which is going to weight heavily toward massively embarrassing or rewarding shots - its how our brains work.  High and straight is only good if your alignment is good, for example.  I've literally played a round with a guy who cursed after thinning a mid-iron to the back fringe but, on a par 3, hit a gorgeous shot into the water, turned to me and said "got it good though" while smiling.  It went in the damn water, and he is telling himself "good job" - meanwhile the other one is on the green, and he is storing "bad shot".

I'm not arguing that more people should hit 3 wood out of some sort of blind dogma, I'm arguing more people should hit longer clubs and be more aggressive because *they are better than they think they are with those clubs*.  Our brains are trained to avoid embarrassment and fear more than they are incentivized to get after it.  I think a whole lot of people would score lower if they played clubs based on their actual games and not the narrative they've made up in their head about their games.

You'll note that in the post I replied to the gentleman talked at length about why he plays a hybrid instead of a three wood.  How many times did he mention score?

Not once.

if someone actually measures it and determines - over a reasonable sample - that they are significantly better with a higher lofted wood and 3 wood is a wasted spot, you won't hear a peep from me.  But these memories and desires to hit pretty shots masquerading as scoring statistics lead to awful decisions.

OK, fair enough. I think you're fighting an impossible fight in this, however. People, generally, are terrible at estimating frequency odds and anything with a fuzzy outcome. Lotteries and casinos exist...


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#51 np78

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 09:34 AM

i noticed mizuno has an excellent reviewed CLK in 16 deg - 16 22 might be an amazing combo! gatta give them a go.

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#52 terminalvertigo

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 04:33 PM

I'm planning on using 915D2 / 17* H1 /21* H1 myself this year :)
917 D2, 9.5* -  Tour AD DI-6S
816 H1, 21*  - Tour AD DI-85X
718 AP1 4-PW True Temper AMT Red
Vokey SM6 Raw. (48,52,56,60) KBS Tour Limited Edition
Handstamped Tour Newport 1.5
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Hoofer

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#53 Titleist9696

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 10:40 PM

My touring friend just made the switch and really liking it. Granted he has a 180+ ball speed...

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#54 1Mordrid1

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 11:12 PM

As someone who has a tendency to hit down on everything I have not gotten along very well with fairway woods in the past. But I did finally find one that fits my eye and gets along just well enough with my swing to be a useful club.
WITB

Callaway Rogue driver w/ Oban Tour Limited 4 60
Taylormade R15 3 wood w/ Kurocage 60 tini s
Nike Sasquatch Sumo #4 hybrid(cut down 1") w/ H Diamana s
Srixon U65 20° Miyazaki Kaula 7 s
Ping G700 5-UW AWT 2.0(1°flat, 2° weak)
Callaway Mack Daddy PM grind 56 /KBS Tour V
Callaway Mack Daddy PM grind 60/KBS Tour V
Scotty Cameron Select Fastback
2018 Chrome Soft X

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#55 taemorin

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 11:49 PM

I use a 17/22 combo


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#56 Jack Pearsall

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 01:11 AM

JP will use a 17 and a 21 but neither go as far as a 15* with it’s longer shaft.
MacGregor PCB Tours...the leopard of irons.

Taylormade SLDR TP 430 9*
MacGregor MT 13*
Titleist 909H 17*
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Mizuno Yoro MP-15 4-PW
Mizuno MP T7 52* 58*
Titleist SC Teryllium Two Newport Longneck

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#57 Crazy 8

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 01:37 AM

IMO your giving up the long 3 wood to a Par 5 (rarely required I assume) and swopping into an additional wedge which will be used more on all par 5's and 4's and maybe 3's, seems to make sense for you.

I like my 3 wood for tee shots and when I need 235-250 yards into the green. I also have the 16 hybrid/2 iron as a 4/5 wood alternative (210-225 yards). I prefer the 52/58 wedge option for me.

I would swop the 16 hybrid into a 4/5 wood if I live in an area that needs the extra high stopping shot.
Ping G400 Max driver 9* - Kuro Kage Silver 60, Stiff
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Mizuno MP18 Fli-Hi 4 & 5 iron - KBS Tour C-Taper Lite, Stiff
Mizuno MP18 (MB) 6-PW irons - KBS Tour C-Taper Lite, Stiff
Mizuno S18 wedge SATIN - 52* 09 - KBS Tour C-Taper Lite, Stiff
Mizuno S18 wedge BLACK - 58* 04 - KBS Hi-Rev 2.0, Stiff
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#58 joesgonegolfing

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 11:45 AM

I don't care for fairway woods and always played a 2 iron. This past year I found the G400 Hybrids and love them. They feel as good in my hand as my PW. I swap out the 26 Hybrid and the 4 iron depending on mood and if the course has some really long par 3's.
Driver: Ping 10.5 G400 MAX HZRDUS Black 6.0
Hybrids: Ping G400 17-22-26 HZRDUS Black Hybrid 6.0
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Wedges: Ping Glide Stealth 2.0 50-56-60 DG120 S300
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#59 noaces06

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 12:45 PM

I didn't dump the 3 wood - still used for LONG par 5s and off the tee but I do go 17* / 23* hybrids.  

All 3 get pretty solid amount of use, but off the deck I prefer hybrids all day long.
Noaces' WITB...

Callaway Rogue 9* w/ Fubuki Alpha 60x (playing at 43.5)
Callaway Rogue SZ 15* w/ ....
Titleist 816 23* w/ Diamana D+ 92x
Titleist 712 AP2 4 - PW w/ DG X100
Vokey SM6 50/54/58
Odyssey O-Works #7

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#60 BForrester

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 01:14 PM

I've never liked fairway woods off the deck.  I only carry 3w (15) and 3h (19), but the 3w is reserved for the tee box.  If I need to hit more than 225 into a green, I'm better off laying up.

Taylormade M1 8.5o Aldila Tour Green 70x 44"
Taylormade RBZ 3w 15o Aldila Tour Blue 70x
Taylormade Rescue Dual 19o R-Flex
Mizuno JPX-850 Forged 4-GW DG S300
Mizuno S5 (54, 58)
Odyssey Tank Cruiser #1

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