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Miura 1957 Small Blade/Baby Blade enthusiasts thread! (Lots of enabling and physics lessons inside)

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#571 Nard_S


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Posted 15 December 2018 - 02:32 PM

 PopIt&DropIt, on 15 December 2018 - 02:26 PM, said:

I feel like I could write for hours on this debate but I also feel like it will mostly fall on deaf ears so I probably shouldn't. With that said playing BBs exclusively this year while also researching and discussing the subject in general has taught me a few things some might find interesting.  

--Like bladehunter said forgiveness is not as cut and dry as either side would like it to be.   What is forgiving for someone could be devastatingly unforgiving for another (like sole width).  

--The effectiveness of forgiveness is way overstated in general. It is literally the only thing OEMs can use to sell new irom designs and they play up it's importance for the sake of their bottom line.  As far as playability goes I think blades and GI clubs perform closer than either side would like to admit and anyone who does a true long term side by side comparison will see this in the data.

--I believe your average golfer is measuring forgivness by feel more than tangible improvement in where the shot finishes.  I think a ball way out on the toe FEELS a lot less harsh on a GI club but the shots will fly more similar than most people realize.  

--Adding to the first point, individual experience is king here.  Guys who have no problem creating speed and launching the ball high usually have no issue with blades. Even guys who aren't flushing the ball consistently will get a lot out of a blade if the speed and launch are there as long as you hit it on the grooves.   When speed and launch don't come as easy is when the blades can feel too daunting to play.  Similar with sole width and design.  If you take very steep divots and have low launch then of course blades are going to seem impossible.  But it has more to do with selecting the right tool for the job than the tool being inherently easy to hit.  A steep low launch guy is using a phillips head screwdriver to unscrew a flat head screw when he picks up a blade.  Same for a high speed high launch guy with a very shallow attack angle picking up a p790.  Its the wrong tool for the job. Of course there are exceptions to any rule and these are just brief and incomplete guidelines, but they seem very consistent in most people I've had this debate with in person (I teach golf, I've had this debate a lot). When you see two good players battling it out in the blades vs cb threads it has so much more to do with their chosen tools fitting their swing and style of play better than the club being easier to hit in a vacuum.   You will find hundreds of posts on here from people saying they think blades are easier to hit and obviously even more saying the opposite. If you have to beleive everyone on the other side is an idiot to make your point valid then it might not be as valid as you think.  

--Everyone saying BBs are forgiving are really just saying they are very playable compared to their expectations. You don't need to flush them to get a lot out of them.  Of course if you don't hit it long and high and you have a steep angle of attack then these long irons are going to seem unplayable. But at the same time I find BB long irons to be extremely playable and I compete with them in my bag.  Would a more forgiving head hold more speed and launch when I miss? Absolutely, but that gain does not come without a tradeoff somewhere else.   For my swing and style of play it is a tradeoff I'm very happy to make. It's why I play blades in general, "they are slow every where" and I find that more useful for my game.  I want control, not speed. Other's people's games require other tradeoffs so that is what they pursue.   Play what you like! There is no one style of club that is better or easier for everyone.  

I tried to like the 785s and various other players cavities I tested this year.  Most of the more compact ones were very playable for me but they didn't give me anything I didn't already have. The bigger ones were nightmares for me.  Big soles are just so detrimental for my swing and I like to know exactly where my misses are going. I feel the front to back dispersion is way greater as you get into the distance iron category.

--For me BBs bring a level of distance control and trajectory control I haven't found in any other clubs.  They are more fun and satisfying to hit for sure, but when I'm swinging well I feel like I know where the ball is going to land right when I hit it.  I originally called it a fluke but as it just kept happening that way and I've read lots of other experiences saying the same,  I have to assume there is some credibility there. Ultimately Mr. Miura is saying these are the most accurate design out there and I'm guessing there might be some validity in his statement.  

To make a long story short I'm not completely disregarding forgiveness I just don't think it is as impactful on people's scores as they have been lead to believe.  Further, true forgivness is a very individual thing and no one club will be more forgiving to people's misses than another. There are some that are more forgiving for some very common misses (slow speed, low launch, ground first contact) but it still doesn't make them inherently easier to hit. Just easier to hit for a common style of miss. Thats my $.02. I've had fun playing BBs this year and if something ends up beating them out I'll still keep a set or two to practice with and enjoy on the course. They are too much fun to play!

Well said.

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#572 PopIt&DropIt



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Posted 15 December 2018 - 02:47 PM

 A.G. Pennypacker, on 13 December 2018 - 05:24 PM, said:

Has anyone hit both the Ft. Worth 15/black and the BB? I'd be interested in any comparisons. I'm really trying not to buy a set of Ft Worth clubs, but the price seems too good to pass up.

The Ft Worth irons are really good. As someone who loves the BBs I'm actually actively trying to get them out of my bag for a few reasons that don't really relate to performance and the Ft Worth Blacks are the top contender currently (Cobra MBs and MP 18s in the running).

Feel is less firm and lively than the BB (what isn't?) but overall is pretty similar. If BBs are firmest and Endo is softest with Mizuno in the middle I'd put these between BB and Mizuno. No mushy feelings and you know where you hit it. Again not quite as precise as the BB, but again what is?

My favorite aspects are the progressive head size and weight distribution.   Long irons are bigger than short irons and the long irons fly high and the short irons are more penetrating.  I also absolutely love the DBM finish (same as cobra). Has a more gunmetal look than black and really holds up well.  Most durable of any finish out there, including chrome. I feel like I can beat the crap out of them and never worry about it and that's something I'm looking for.  

My only gripe with them is the non traditional hosel and head shape. The big fat hosel gives them a gooseneck/offset look I'm not crazy about. Ideally I want a set that transitions to and from BB more seamlessly but it's a small gripe overall and it hasn't removed them from the running.   But it is probably the main reason I haven't committed to them yet. (Edit: The black reduced this visual effect a lot. Way more noticeable on the chrome)

I can do comparison pics with BB if you'd like any, just let me know.  Hope that helps!

Edit: Here is a pic after a recent makeover. They are truly beautiful clubs.

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Edited by PopIt&DropIt, 15 December 2018 - 02:55 PM.


#573 craz-e


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Posted 15 December 2018 - 06:29 PM

These are my insights

They look amazing
Feel amazing
And I hit them good

Thatís all
Driver = Titleist TS3, Even Flow White 6.0 (44.5")
5 Wood = Taylormade Burner

Irons = Miura 1957 Baby Blades Project X LZ 6.0 (4-PW)
Wilson Staff FG59 DG S300's (4-PW)
Titleist 718 MB Project X LZ 6.0 (4-PW)
Wedges = Titleist Vokey SM6 52*, 56* and 60*

              = Taylormade 64* Hi-Toe
Putter = Wilson Staff 8882
Ball = Titleist AVX


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