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Miura 1957 Small Blade/Baby Blade enthusiasts thread! (Lots of enabling and physics lessons inside)


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#511 Nessism

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Posted 28 October 2018 - 09:03 PM

View PostBIG STU, on 28 October 2018 - 08:25 AM, said:

Kinda late to this party but I will say DeNinny knows his physics and science trust me. Besides if an old country boy redneck like me can understand where he is at (after 3 readings or so) then you better educated folks ought to understand.

Are you joking?  His so called "physics" is contrary to virtually every golf club designer on the planet.

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#512 bladehunter

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Posted 28 October 2018 - 09:24 PM

View PostBiggErn, on 28 October 2018 - 08:46 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 28 October 2018 - 08:15 PM, said:

surely you believe and feel the difference on full or feel shots with different grinds for wedges???  if so same same with irons . Im not saying your preference is wrong.. I just wonder how many folks dont know they prefer something else because they are afraid to try?  

Youve not heard me claim "a blade is longer"...Nor more "forgiving".....But i have said they arent the boogey man and that turf interaction is a major pet peeve of mine .  More people could play them especially form a 5 iron down because of hybrids already in the bag and might score better.   My scores havent dropped , my cap has actually risen 1.4 points since 2 months ago when my last real tournament was and i swapped from my MB sets....  Its maddening to me...  I WANT to like the set i have more than any set i have had before.. and i hit good shots..But i just do not feel in control ....and i practice with them and my 7-pw MB set side by side daily... so i can see the difference.   I dont hit them any farther either until the 4 iron ..   I say all that to say ..I have no agenda except the truth.   Bottom line is that if you hit the center of the face often , and dont play in seattle or the northeast where it rains weekly , a small thin iron is just as easy to score with , maybe easier.


I believe everyone has their own preferences for sure. I like a wide”ish” sole and some bounce and it in no way negatively affects my perfectly struck shots just helps with the less than perfect ones. I remember the “physics guy” use to say MBs just worked for his swing. That he hit off the toe (off the grooves) with a 4 iron and it wasn’t really affected. Now he has rewritten physics to make his crazy claims.

Thats fair enough....    But  i have to ask...why do you prefer a widish sole ?  If the ball is long gone before club meets ground then why does it matter?

please dont take that as an attack.. Its not,could have been,but its not..  I think you just havent considered the flip side of your preference and opinions on turf interaction.

Something about the wide sole helps with your expectation of feel after impact ..right ?  That expectation effects your swing . Same as the feel of a club bouncing off the turf instead of cutting effects me ...
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#513 BiggErn

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Posted 28 October 2018 - 09:34 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 28 October 2018 - 09:24 PM, said:

View PostBiggErn, on 28 October 2018 - 08:46 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 28 October 2018 - 08:15 PM, said:

surely you believe and feel the difference on full or feel shots with different grinds for wedges???  if so same same with irons . Im not saying your preference is wrong.. I just wonder how many folks dont know they prefer something else because they are afraid to try?  

Youve not heard me claim "a blade is longer"...Nor more "forgiving".....But i have said they arent the boogey man and that turf interaction is a major pet peeve of mine .  More people could play them especially form a 5 iron down because of hybrids already in the bag and might score better.   My scores havent dropped , my cap has actually risen 1.4 points since 2 months ago when my last real tournament was and i swapped from my MB sets....  Its maddening to me...  I WANT to like the set i have more than any set i have had before.. and i hit good shots..But i just do not feel in control ....and i practice with them and my 7-pw MB set side by side daily... so i can see the difference.   I dont hit them any farther either until the 4 iron ..   I say all that to say ..I have no agenda except the truth.   Bottom line is that if you hit the center of the face often , and dont play in seattle or the northeast where it rains weekly , a small thin iron is just as easy to score with , maybe easier.


I believe everyone has their own preferences for sure. I like a wide”ish” sole and some bounce and it in no way negatively affects my perfectly struck shots just helps with the less than perfect ones. I remember the “physics guy” use to say MBs just worked for his swing. That he hit off the toe (off the grooves) with a 4 iron and it wasn’t really affected. Now he has rewritten physics to make his crazy claims.

Thats fair enough....    But  i have to ask...why do you prefer a widish sole ?  If the ball is long gone before club meets ground then why does it matter?

please dont take that as an attack.. Its not,could have been,but its not..  I think you just havent considered the flip side of your preference and opinions on turf interaction.

Something about the wide sole helps with your expectation of feel after impact ..right ?  That expectation effects your swing . Same as the feel of a club bouncing off the turf instead of cutting effects me ...

I like it because I’m not gonna strike every shot perfectly and it helps when I don’t. If I hit virtually every shot perfect I would probably play blades just for the looks.

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#514 Kingcat990

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Posted 28 October 2018 - 10:03 PM

I have had my 1-PW set of BB's for over a year now. Still have no plans to shaft them up. They have been sitting in their box since I got them. However, I do have them lined up to get DLC plated here locally along with my Masda blades. The BB's really are a great looking iron. I personally wished they had the zodia/modart sharp toes though :)

Edited by Kingcat990, 28 October 2018 - 10:03 PM.

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#515 Bigmean

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Posted 29 October 2018 - 09:20 AM

I have long thought that I hit blades well becuase I am a heelside misser, and with all BH said I think I agree on those points.  People here love to presume their swing and experience is everyoneís.  I get that the B.B. ask for hate becuase of the cult following and what they cost and are, I get that, but it is equally as ridiculous as denninny saying why they should be the best for all.

I have learned that my good shots are closer to the pin, and my distance control with the small blades is best of any clubs ever, blades included.  I can hit my 7 iron 130 if I had to, or 140, 150, 160 etc.  and I do play that way, I donít always hit same club per distance.  Are good shots that are a little better not a fair tradeoff for a bad shot that is a little worse?  Is that not sensical when you can always have a chance at par with a up and down, but 10ft is a lot better than even 15 for birdie?  Is max feedback throughout a round even on shots that work out not worth something to some people to make small adjustments in round?

It is annoying when you are serious about something, and have an open mind, dedicate a lot of your time to it, and people who donít play with you or know you tell you that you are using something to be cool or cause it is expensive or cause you are fooling yourself or whatever..... like you havenít spent years of your life trying and owning everything and landed on a set that some internet physicist says is wrong for you.  Same goes for anyone telling you the B.B. is the best for whatever their reasons are.  

If you get along with blades, the miura small blade, to me, is better than their others, and worth a try.  The size acclimation is 2 rounds at worst, and if you like and play them a while the opposite happens,  they ruin you playing other clubs becuase everything else looks and feels wrong.  For some people they are worth a try.  That is what this thread is about.  If not for this forum, I would have never tried what has become my favorite set ever.  It may not be yours, but if you are on the fence, they are worth a hard look on a used set to find out.

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#516 bladehunter

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Posted 29 October 2018 - 11:35 AM

View PostBigmean, on 29 October 2018 - 09:20 AM, said:

I have long thought that I hit blades well becuase I am a heelside misser, and with all BH said I think I agree on those points.  People here love to presume their swing and experience is everyoneís.  I get that the B.B. ask for hate becuase of the cult following and what they cost and are, I get that, but it is equally as ridiculous as denninny saying why they should be the best for all.

I have learned that my good shots are closer to the pin, and my distance control with the small blades is best of any clubs ever, blades included.  I can hit my 7 iron 130 if I had to, or 140, 150, 160 etc.  and I do play that way, I donít always hit same club per distance.  Are good shots that are a little better not a fair tradeoff for a bad shot that is a little worse?  Is that not sensical when you can always have a chance at par with a up and down, but 10ft is a lot better than even 15 for birdie?  Is max feedback throughout a round even on shots that work out not worth something to some people to make small adjustments in round?

It is annoying when you are serious about something, and have an open mind, dedicate a lot of your time to it, and people who donít play with you or know you tell you that you are using something to be cool or cause it is expensive or cause you are fooling yourself or whatever..... like you havenít spent years of your life trying and owning everything and landed on a set that some internet physicist says is wrong for you.  Same goes for anyone telling you the B.B. is the best for whatever their reasons are.  

If you get along with blades, the miura small blade, to me, is better than their others, and worth a try.  The size acclimation is 2 rounds at worst, and if you like and play them a while the opposite happens,  they ruin you playing other clubs becuase everything else looks and feels wrong.  For some people they are worth a try.  That is what this thread is about.  If not for this forum, I would have never tried what has become my favorite set ever.  It may not be yours, but if you are on the fence, they are worth a hard look on a used set to find out.


So much truth here.  

Itís funny.  If my screen name was ďGI Jack ď Iíd bet a lot of $ my opinions on the subject would be taken much more seriously.  

And anyone whoís listened to my ramblings for 4 years knows Iíve played a lot.  I mean a crap ton of different iron sets.  Sure it can be dismissed as anecdotal but not without an asterisk that denotes  *4 years of testing on the same course , same shafts and built to same specs *.....

Different iron sets alter the type of golf you play in my opinion.  You canít drive fence posts in  the ground with a tack  hammer and you canít hang pictures in the house with a sledge hammer.  Not and do a neat job.  You have to decide which type golf you will play. Then choose the tools to do that job.  Are there some in betweens ?  Sure there always are.  But you always trade something too.

Bigmean is correct. In the world of the mb , the Miura 57LE is king of the heap.  The size doesnít even register after the first day or so.  And all that mass in one spot makes them shockingly easy to hit.   Am i talking for a 18 handicapper. Hell no.  But my perspective isnít from that place in the game.  

I made this analogy in another thread.  Still rings true.  

I keep trying other irons to find that one holy trinity of control ,distance and feel ( maybe a 4th being looks at address ) .... that greener grass. I complain because I donít see these new irons as ď helpĒ.  The analogy I made was of a perfectly sighted man griping because he couldnít use prescription glasses and see a benefit.  Kind of foolish thing to do .

We are constantly sold this line of ď new and better ď.  The thing they donít say is , if you hit it outof the middle you wont see much if anything.    Thatís it. That all the rant I have. It isnít aimed at anyone but myself.

Edited by bladehunter, 29 October 2018 - 11:36 AM.

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#517 BIG STU

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Posted 29 October 2018 - 03:04 PM

View PostNessism, on 28 October 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

View PostBIG STU, on 28 October 2018 - 08:25 AM, said:

Kinda late to this party but I will say DeNinny knows his physics and science trust me. Besides if an old country boy redneck like me can understand where he is at (after 3 readings or so) then you better educated folks ought to understand.

Are you joking?  His so called "physics" is contrary to virtually every golf club designer on the planet.
I am as serious as a heart attack
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#518 BiggErn

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Posted 29 October 2018 - 03:27 PM

View PostBIG STU, on 29 October 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:

View PostNessism, on 28 October 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

View PostBIG STU, on 28 October 2018 - 08:25 AM, said:

Kinda late to this party but I will say DeNinny knows his physics and science trust me. Besides if an old country boy redneck like me can understand where he is at (after 3 readings or so) then you better educated folks ought to understand.

Are you joking?  His so called "physics" is contrary to virtually every golf club designer on the planet.
I am as serious as a heart attack

Heart attacks aren’t serious. Just greedy hospital marketing.

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#519 bladehunter

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Posted 29 October 2018 - 04:14 PM

^^🙆‍♂️🙅‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️😷💩😵🤬🤭
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#520 Nessism

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Posted 29 October 2018 - 09:46 PM

View PostBIG STU, on 29 October 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:

View PostNessism, on 28 October 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

View PostBIG STU, on 28 October 2018 - 08:25 AM, said:

Kinda late to this party but I will say DeNinny knows his physics and science trust me. Besides if an old country boy redneck like me can understand where he is at (after 3 readings or so) then you better educated folks ought to understand.

Are you joking?  His so called "physics" is contrary to virtually every golf club designer on the planet.
I am as serious as a heart attack

Wow!  You realize of course that the wood clubs in your bag have a feature (bulge) that's contrary to your beliefs? Bulge counteracts gear effect in case you missed that part. Has there been any woods made in the last 70 years without bulge?  


Edited by Nessism, 30 October 2018 - 06:39 AM.

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#521 BIG STU

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 12:43 PM

View PostBiggErn, on 29 October 2018 - 03:27 PM, said:

View PostBIG STU, on 29 October 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:

View PostNessism, on 28 October 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

View PostBIG STU, on 28 October 2018 - 08:25 AM, said:

Kinda late to this party but I will say DeNinny knows his physics and science trust me. Besides if an old country boy redneck like me can understand where he is at (after 3 readings or so) then you better educated folks ought to understand.

Are you joking?  His so called "physics" is contrary to virtually every golf club designer on the planet.
I am as serious as a heart attack

Heart attacks aren’t serious. Just greedy hospital marketing.
You aint ever had one then--- I did so I think I am qualified in saying that
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#522 z18

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 12:07 PM

View PostBiggErn, on 29 October 2018 - 03:27 PM, said:

View PostBIG STU, on 29 October 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:

View PostNessism, on 28 October 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

View PostBIG STU, on 28 October 2018 - 08:25 AM, said:

Kinda late to this party but I will say DeNinny knows his physics and science trust me. Besides if an old country boy redneck like me can understand where he is at (after 3 readings or so) then you better educated folks ought to understand.

Are you joking?  His so called "physics" is contrary to virtually every golf club designer on the planet.
I am as serious as a heart attack

Heart attacks aren’t serious. Just greedy hospital marketing.
Just because DeNinny disagrees with a bunch of golf club designers doesn't mean you can dismiss him out of hand. While i am not an engineer or physics major, Like BIG STU I am able to understand much of what he says after reading the material several times. The designers themselves may all be guilty of "greedy golf club marketing". LOL
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#523 Nessism

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 08:28 PM

View Postz18, on 02 November 2018 - 12:07 PM, said:

View PostBiggErn, on 29 October 2018 - 03:27 PM, said:

View PostBIG STU, on 29 October 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:

View PostNessism, on 28 October 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

View PostBIG STU, on 28 October 2018 - 08:25 AM, said:

Kinda late to this party but I will say DeNinny knows his physics and science trust me. Besides if an old country boy redneck like me can understand where he is at (after 3 readings or so) then you better educated folks ought to understand.

Are you joking?  His so called "physics" is contrary to virtually every golf club designer on the planet.
I am as serious as a heart attack

Heart attacks aren’t serious. Just greedy hospital marketing.
Just because DeNinny disagrees with a bunch of golf club designers doesn't mean you can dismiss him out of hand. While i am not an engineer or physics major, Like BIG STU I am able to understand much of what he says after reading the material several times. The designers themselves may all be guilty of "greedy golf club marketing". LOL

DeNinny doesn't simply "..disagrees with a bunch of golf club designers..." he outright opposes very basic principles employed by the industry for the last 70+ years.  High MOI to improve forgiveness and bulge on woods to counteract gear effect being just two such examples.  Honestly, and I mean this with all due respect, and I do understand that DeNinny is not a bad guy or anything, but SERIOUSLY, he knows just enough about club design to be dangerous.

Edited by Nessism, 02 November 2018 - 09:45 PM.

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#524 BiggErn

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 08:28 AM

Dangerous? Lol. Is that really the right word? He is the “flat earther” of golf.

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#525 A.G. Pennypacker

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 09:20 AM

This is still goin huh? What are the odds that  mod wants to split the "physics" into a separate thread?


View Postz18, on 02 November 2018 - 12:07 PM, said:

Just because DeNinny disagrees with a bunch of golf club designers doesn't mean you can dismiss him out of hand. While i am not an engineer or physics major, Like BIG STU I am able to understand much of what he says after reading the material several times. The designers themselves may all be guilty of "greedy golf club marketing". LOL

The only reason it makes sense to you is because you aren't an engineer or physics major. The information he's presenting isn't wrong... it's just not all the information, ergo the conclusion is wrong. The only way you'd know stuff is being omitted/disregarded/claimed as being false when it's not, is if you went to school for it for years like the rest of us nerds haha.


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#526 Nard_S

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 09:26 AM

I believe in MOI and bulge & roll but also believe there's a crazy genius to consolidating the mass of an iron on a 10-15% smaller footprint and to some real benefit. After all mass is the most base element to MOI That all (to me) can be "true" points out that more or too much of anything can end up being not so much good. That there's a curve to this stuff and some trade off and a measure of zero sum. I've never even held a BB, nor do I care to. I'm sure they're great as many a Miura's are, I care little to swing an AP-2 or any club with multi-material mish mosh, that's just me. Pull back the curtain, iron design is really just a "dance of grams", sometimes easily seen sometimes obscured but not much has changed in last 40 years in terms of design to intent. What has propelled things is the nature of the ball and that has allowed for de-loft and lower spin launch. Old school blades were made to control old school ball, they were not stupid in doing so and that's easily forgotten. MOI of the Eye 2 probably holds up well to today's stuff even if the package remains a bit fugly. What gets lost in the science is the imperfect physics the human applies to the final equation.That wildcard has generalities but even at the individual level can change. So what's right, over time can vary quite a bit for a person and from player to player can vary even more. So I threw up my hands long time ago and decided to focus over the calculus of shaft profile and gross weight and how it jibes with the flawed physics of my swing and go from there. Addressing it at that level negates hand wringing over the clump of steel at the end of the club and gets to the root issue of my suckage. How other folks do it is of little concern or held with little judgement but the world could do with less absolutes and bumper sticker truths and would benefit all if nuance prevailed a bit more.

16

#527 Bigmean

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 07:07 PM

I think what nard said is pretty reasonable.   Man, the ping eyes were the jam...I hate ping, but the eye 2s and the answer putter....credit where it is due.  

I hit some 7s and 9s today.   I donít get tired of hitting the small blades, they make me want to not care to hit anything else.   I have cheated on them and come back.  I am at the point there is no desire to even try much anymore.  However testimonials like that lead to the ďI tried miura what is the big dealĒ threads, and for reasons nard mentioned above who knows why someone likes xyz.  I truly find it hard to comprehend that people hit small blades and say ďthey feel like titliest 680sĒ and I cant comprehend that...I canít comprehend how they donít at least feel different, but that is me looking through my biased self experience and my swing and my body.   I tried these becuase I read the hype, and I am happy I did.  I am happy people said how amazing they were.  I tried other things with hype, and was very underwhelmed.  I sold them and moved on.  Everyone is really over complicating this, and clubs in general.

If you feel like you may like these, by all means grab a used set.  If are buying them expect science to make you better with them, then donít.  Does that mean there is not science behind them?  Who cares.  If you hit them well or not, like them or not, WTF does it matter what someone says about the science of it....right or wrong.

Edited by Bigmean, 03 November 2018 - 07:16 PM.

Ryoma Maxima 9.5*/Quadra Fire Express
    913F 15*/Tour AD MT7
    Roddio 21* hybrid/Tour AD DI75
    Miura 1957 small blades/Nippon 1150 tours
            Wilson Staff V4 tour modus 130
            Mizuno MP-14/DG300-raw finish
    Buchi 50/56. RomaRo 59
    Gold's Factory custom original flat-stick amongst a couple dozen others.

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#528 BIG STU

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 10:11 PM

View Posthuddledtoast, on 03 November 2018 - 09:20 AM, said:

This is still goin huh? What are the odds that  mod wants to split the "physics" into a separate thread?


View Postz18, on 02 November 2018 - 12:07 PM, said:

Just because DeNinny disagrees with a bunch of golf club designers doesn't mean you can dismiss him out of hand. While i am not an engineer or physics major, Like BIG STU I am able to understand much of what he says after reading the material several times. The designers themselves may all be guilty of "greedy golf club marketing". LOL

The only reason it makes sense to you is because you aren't an engineer or physics major. The information he's presenting isn't wrong... it's just not all the information, ergo the conclusion is wrong. The only way you'd know stuff is being omitted/disregarded/claimed as being false when it's not, is if you went to school for it for years like the rest of us nerds haha.
I am what is called a redneck engineer--- I go on a theory then build and test the stuff-- A lot of it is trial and error and some screw ups--- In fact I have 2 staff bags full and I mean full of clubs that were failed experiments in one way or the other--- When I was racing I had a field in what I called the back 40 (just an acre) full of stuff reduced to scrap metal because of failure---- But I am not scared to try
Driver: Homna G1-X Homna stiff shaft
FW Adams Tight Lies 16* Diamana Reg
Irons 3 thru PW 1982 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex #2 shafts hard stepped-- Yeah MacHogans or Bastardized Macs
SW Macgregor LRA 56* TT Wedge S-400 DJ Special
Putter- 1997 Scotty Cameron Santa Fe Rusty as hell and lead taped
Bag-- Original Ping Hoofer
Founding Father of Outlaw Golf Association member #1---- Play what you want screw the USGA & R&A
Redneck Hippie Golf When the Tailgate drops the BS Stops
Vintage
Toney Penna Model 1 Aldila HM-40
3&4 woods Macgregor DX Keyhole steel TT R
Irons 2 thru 9 1954 Hogan Precision TT green
PW Hogan White Cameo 50* Hogan Apex Wedge
SW Vokey 252 series 56* S-400 wedge
Putter ( subject to change) Cleveland 8802 Designed By
Bag Old School Titleist Stand

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#529 BIG STU

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 10:16 PM

View PostBigmean, on 03 November 2018 - 07:07 PM, said:

I think what nard said is pretty reasonable.   Man, the ping eyes were the jam...I hate ping, but the eye 2s and the answer putter....credit where it is due.  

I hit some 7s and 9s today.   I don't get tired of hitting the small blades, they make me want to not care to hit anything else.   I have cheated on them and come back.  I am at the point there is no desire to even try much anymore.  However testimonials like that lead to the "I tried miura what is the big deal" threads, and for reasons nard mentioned above who knows why someone likes xyz.  I truly find it hard to comprehend that people hit small blades and say "they feel like titliest 680s" and I cant comprehend that...I can't comprehend how they don't at least feel different, but that is me looking through my biased self experience and my swing and my body.   I tried these becuase I read the hype, and I am happy I did.  I am happy people said how amazing they were.  I tried other things with hype, and was very underwhelmed.  I sold them and moved on.  Everyone is really over complicating this, and clubs in general.

If you feel like you may like these, by all means grab a used set.  If are buying them expect science to make you better with them, then don't.  Does that mean there is not science behind them?  Who cares.  If you hit them well or not, like them or not, WTF does it matter what someone says about the science of it....right or wrong.
I do not get tired of hitting small blades either--- The Macs I mostly play are as small as BBs. My buddy and sometimes playing partner is a Miura dealer so I do get to hit anything Miura. To me and this is just me the BBs look just like a Mac VIP to me at address. Now the BBs have a little softer feel for different reasons than the VIPs. The BBs have softer steel but the VIPS with Hogan Apex shafts (old school trick) are a close second. I am actually entertaining the thought of building a set of BBs with Hogan Apex shafts no joke. I was messing around on the range one day when he had a demo and was flushing a BB 8 iron of his. One of the guys remarked about that and he told him that is was a no brainer for me since I had been hitting those blade Macgregors most of my golfing life

Edited by BIG STU, 03 November 2018 - 10:19 PM.

Driver: Homna G1-X Homna stiff shaft
FW Adams Tight Lies 16* Diamana Reg
Irons 3 thru PW 1982 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex #2 shafts hard stepped-- Yeah MacHogans or Bastardized Macs
SW Macgregor LRA 56* TT Wedge S-400 DJ Special
Putter- 1997 Scotty Cameron Santa Fe Rusty as hell and lead taped
Bag-- Original Ping Hoofer
Founding Father of Outlaw Golf Association member #1---- Play what you want screw the USGA & R&A
Redneck Hippie Golf When the Tailgate drops the BS Stops
Vintage
Toney Penna Model 1 Aldila HM-40
3&4 woods Macgregor DX Keyhole steel TT R
Irons 2 thru 9 1954 Hogan Precision TT green
PW Hogan White Cameo 50* Hogan Apex Wedge
SW Vokey 252 series 56* S-400 wedge
Putter ( subject to change) Cleveland 8802 Designed By
Bag Old School Titleist Stand

19

#530 BIG STU

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 10:29 PM

View PostNard_S, on 03 November 2018 - 09:26 AM, said:

I believe in MOI and bulge & roll but also believe there's a crazy genius to consolidating the mass of an iron on a 10-15% smaller footprint and to some real benefit. After all mass is the most base element to MOI That all (to me) can be "true" points out that more or too much of anything can end up being not so much good. That there's a curve to this stuff and some trade off and a measure of zero sum. I've never even held a BB, nor do I care to. I'm sure they're great as many a Miura's are, I care little to swing an AP-2 or any club with multi-material mish mosh, that's just me. Pull back the curtain, iron design is really just a "dance of grams", sometimes easily seen sometimes obscured but not much has changed in last 40 years in terms of design to intent. What has propelled things is the nature of the ball and that has allowed for de-loft and lower spin launch. Old school blades were made to control old school ball, they were not stupid in doing so and that's easily forgotten. MOI of the Eye 2 probably holds up well to today's stuff even if the package remains a bit fugly. What gets lost in the science is the imperfect physics the human applies to the final equation.That wildcard has generalities but even at the individual level can change. So what's right, over time can vary quite a bit for a person and from player to player can vary even more. So I threw up my hands long time ago and decided to focus over the calculus of shaft profile and gross weight and how it jibes with the flawed physics of my swing and go from there. Addressing it at that level negates hand wringing over the clump of steel at the end of the club and gets to the root issue of my suckage. How other folks do it is of little concern or held with little judgement but the world could do with less absolutes and bumper sticker truths and would benefit all if nuance prevailed a bit more.
Well you basically nailed it on theory of what works for an individual. And our swings change with age. With me when I build my clubs now I soft tip them some to get that kick on the bottom end. Another trick with old school blades and a modern ball is to deloft the iron some. Not much just a touch especially with sharp leading edge blades. I go slightly like no more than 2*. I deloft the club some at impact anyhow. I also have lie angles all over the board for me too. Most people even if they are blade players could not hit clubs set for me.

Driver: Homna G1-X Homna stiff shaft
FW Adams Tight Lies 16* Diamana Reg
Irons 3 thru PW 1982 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex #2 shafts hard stepped-- Yeah MacHogans or Bastardized Macs
SW Macgregor LRA 56* TT Wedge S-400 DJ Special
Putter- 1997 Scotty Cameron Santa Fe Rusty as hell and lead taped
Bag-- Original Ping Hoofer
Founding Father of Outlaw Golf Association member #1---- Play what you want screw the USGA & R&A
Redneck Hippie Golf When the Tailgate drops the BS Stops
Vintage
Toney Penna Model 1 Aldila HM-40
3&4 woods Macgregor DX Keyhole steel TT R
Irons 2 thru 9 1954 Hogan Precision TT green
PW Hogan White Cameo 50* Hogan Apex Wedge
SW Vokey 252 series 56* S-400 wedge
Putter ( subject to change) Cleveland 8802 Designed By
Bag Old School Titleist Stand

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#531 Nard_S

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Posted 04 November 2018 - 08:41 AM

View PostBIG STU, on 03 November 2018 - 10:29 PM, said:

Well you basically nailed it on theory of what works for an individual. And our swings change with age. With me when I build my clubs now I soft tip them some to get that kick on the bottom end. Another trick with old school blades and a modern ball is to deloft the iron some. Not much just a touch especially with sharp leading edge blades. I go slightly like no more than 2*. I deloft the club some at impact anyhow. I also have lie angles all over the board for me too. Most people even if they are blade players could not hit clubs set for me.

I'm agnostic on OEM and such but I do stick w/ 48* PW & 27* 5i configuration always. So I somewhat avoid pre-1990 irons. Your choice of Apex shaft is a good one, Hogan appreciated some tip feel to their clubs, love the FM shafts. Always somewhat ignorant on lie angles but it seems I can use 1 to 2 degree flatter setting and get on better with that set up.

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#532 kaaayelll

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 09:37 AM

I find the most under-appreciated thing about BB (Miura in general, Epon, and some other offerings out there) is their weight consistency.  I weight sort all of my BB sets, but even if I didnít, the consistency would be miles better than most of whatís out there.

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#533 isaacbm

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 05:17 PM

One of my favourite sets.0942FA15-0250-4A1D-B2BE-9C2799506DD3.jpeg

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#534 isaacbm

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 05:21 PM

5A28A5DF-2FBA-4F13-A197-D2DEA6D96B0C.jpeg

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#535 isaacbm

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 05:25 PM

Baby blade, mc501, ygrind cb 1007

FAA6CD4F-AD17-42C1-8D75-14B16995F826.jpeg


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#536 isaacbm

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 05:30 PM

1 iron  at address:

F6361064-E850-4AF8-A0D3-DCE5DF6EA357.jpeg 980CE8EE-5EB3-495B-A897-06481F15F654.jpeg

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#537 isaacbm

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 05:32 PM

6811C173-8B51-4CE1-A322-6F775247D984.jpeg

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#538 isaacbm

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 02:47 PM

Hereís  my commentary on the forgiveness of the long irons. You have to be out of your bloody mind if you think these things are forgiving!  I still play to a tournament +3 handicap. On the range this morning, how many times do you think I shanked or sculled  my hybrid?  How many times do you think I miss- hit a hybrid and it still carried over 200 yards.
The answer is zero and every time.

With the one iron however, I literally cold shanked  A couple of shots. Any shot hit slightly fat (quarter inch) Would instantly lose 10 to 20% of Carry distance. As in it would fall out of the sky at 180 to 190

Letís say you had to carry a pond 210 yards into a par five from a slightly bare lie or even a slight divot.  It would literally never cross my mind even once ever even under the most intense tournament pressure ever ever ever to lay up if I had a hybrid in the bag.  If I had to hit a 1 iron or a two iron from the same lie I would  Lay  up 100% of the time.

I love these irons. I think they are very fun to hit. I think they look amazing in the bag. But,they are basically unuseable from the 4 iron down though.  Of the guys that Iíve played professional golf with at every level below the PGA tour, not one single guy has a one or a two   in a blade anymore.  They have clubs that they know they can miss hit and still hit high and soft.

The thing that deninny  seems to miss again and again and again when he goes on his forgiveness speaches, Is that  certain shots are supposed to be hit thin.   Thatís why hybrids make those shots so much easier. Youíre genuinely not trying to hit the sweet spot.   I can skull A highbred a fraction of a millimetre below the equator of a ball and it will still carry 200 yards. Dispersion at that point is not an issue, all that matters is can you carry it over a hazard.

Hell, even Tiger and Rory carry a Fivewood a lot of the time. Why do you think that is?  

I was hitting the one iron side-by-side with my UTI 2 iron.   I never hit one shot less than 230 yards carry  with the tailor-made and my absolute best shots barely got to 230 with the Miura.   Dispersion looks like the difference between a scratch golfer and a  25 handicap as well .


If you like these irons , play them.  Thatís all there is to it. But if you think itís not costing you shots, Iím here to tell you it is. You can take the word of an X tour pro that still plays to a +3 ( along with every single engineer that works for every single research and development firm at every single golf manufacturing company in the world ) Or you can take deninnys word.

Lol! All in good fun Deninny!  Iím easily  crazier than you in many other ways so I probably donít have a leg to stand on !

Edited by isaacbm, 12 December 2018 - 08:08 PM.


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#539 BiggErn

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 04:46 PM

View Postisaacbm, on 12 December 2018 - 02:47 PM, said:

Here’s  my commentary on the forgiveness of the long irons. You have to be out of your bloody mind if you think these things are forgiving!  I still play to a tournament +3 handicap. On the range this morning, how many times do you think I shanked or sculled  my hybrid?  How many times do you think I miss- hit a hybrid and it still carried over 200 yards.
The answer is zero and every time.

With the one iron however, I literally cold shanked  A couple of shots. Any shot hit slightly fat (quarter inch) Would instantly lose 10 to 20% of Carry distance. As in it would fall out of the sky at 180 to 190

Let’s say you had to carry a pond into a par five from a slightly bare lie or even a slight divot.  It would literally never cross my mind even once ever even under the most intense tournament pressure ever ever ever to lay up if I had a hybrid in the bag.  If I had to hit a 1 iron or a two iron from the same lie I would  Lay  up 100% of the time.

I love these irons. I think they are very fun to hit. I think they look amazing in the bag. But,they are basically unuseable from the 4 iron down though.  Of the guys that I’ve played professional golf with at every level below the PGA tour, not one single guy has a one or a two   in a blade anymore.  They have clubs that they know they can miss hit and still hit high and soft.

The thing that deninny  seems to miss again and again and again when he goes on his forgiveness speaches, Is that  certain shots are supposed to be hit thin.   That’s why hybrids make those shots so much easier. You’re genuinely not trying to hit the sweet spot.   I can skull A highbred a fraction of a millimetre below the equator of a ball and it will still carry 200 yards. Dispersion at that point is not an issue, all that matters is can you carry it over a hazard.

Hell, even Tiger and Rory carry a Fivewood a lot of the time. Why do you think that is?  

I was hitting the one iron side-by-side with my UTI 2 iron.   I never hit one shot less than 230 yards carry  with the tailor-made and my absolute best shots barely got to 230 with the Miura.   Dispersion looks like the difference between a scratch golfer and a  25 handicap as well .


If you like these irons , play them.  That’s all there is to it. But if you think it’s not costing you shots, I’m here to tell you it is. You can take the word of an X tour pro that still plays to a +3 ( along with every single engineer that works for every single research and development firm at every single golf manufacturing company in the world ) Or you can take deninnys word.

Lol! All in good fun Deninny!  I’m easily  crazier than you in many other ways so I probably don’t have a leg to stand on !


You’re just asking to get hit with some made up physics and faux science.

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#540 A.G. Pennypacker

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 10:34 AM

View PostBiggErn, on 12 December 2018 - 04:46 PM, said:

You’re just asking to get hit with some made up physics and faux science.

Agreed. And on that note, I asked earlier but I'm going to ask again.... is there a mod that will split this thread and take out any posts that have the ridiculous "physics" debates in them and put them in some other section? Posts like isaac's are very useful to people who want to learn about how the irons play and feel, but not all the posts in this thread do a good job of staying on topic.


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