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Kuro Kage XD


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#31 autronicdsm

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 05:26 PM

Wish I had swing speed for tour protos!

I will probably try XD 50-S... but KK Silver 60-S just feels so good I don't know if there's any point in upgrading.


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#32 noodle3872

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 12:10 AM

View Postmjbaker80, on 30 January 2018 - 03:27 PM, said:

View Postautronicdsm, on 30 January 2018 - 03:21 PM, said:

Right. I think XT and XM were also made with better materials than KK Silver/Black. Made in Japan as oppose to China or where ever they make Silver/Black

Yup!  that's for sure correct.  The stock KK black/silver/XM, etc are all more "budget" shafts vs the whole XT family which are premium, higher end materials.

It's interesting that the info from Mitsu, above, says it's HIGH launch and low spin.  I believe the previous XTs were mid/low and low spin.  

"In the XD series, we are pursuing even lower spin by evolving this titanium nickel fiber to "dual core" where it is arranged in two layers.
It prevents "hit loss" of the shaft tip part at the time of impact and creates a high trajectory of low spin."

One thing I know is that the XD is supposed to have SUPER low torque.

Torque values listed in the link n the first post are about where many of MCA’s shafts are torque-wise. The x’17 is lower torque than the XD.
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#33 mjbaker80

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 09:49 AM

Good catch!  I was going off what rep told us, but, you sure are right there!

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#34 dalton044

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 10:43 AM

So basically DC TX flex shafts are now named XD and coming in full range of weights and flexes.
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#35 Harob11

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 07:53 PM

Mitsubishi - Best shafts. Most absurdly redundant and confusing lineup.

Drive 400 - Swing Faster. Drive Further. www.puredistancegolf.com/drive400

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#36 mjbaker80

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 12:55 PM

View Postdalton044, on 31 January 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

So basically DC TX flex shafts are now named XD and coming in full range of weights and flexes.

You may well be right!  And, if you are, I bet we DON'T see many tour guys move to the XD, because, they would have already (by switching to the KKDC TX flex (XT)) if it's the same shaft.  The only players that did were Sergio (won Masters with them in D, 3w and 5w and still using them) and Peter Uhlein (driver), I believe.

Everyone else in the old gen XT

I completely agree with the confusion comment.  I mean, look at this thread!  It's dizzying for us all and we are golf gear nerds.  And, the new color of the Tensei shafts (the non-pro model in the M3 and 4) isn't helping things either.  Not same as pro Tensei.....

I've had lengthy conversations with the guys at Fujikura (GREAT GUYS) and they are very much on board with making shaft lines more "understandable" to the public.  They were SUPER open minded to the feedback.  I think they've made huge strides in making their stuff more distinguishable since the Evolutions.....  I think Mitsu has some room to improve here, yet.  But, they sure do make great stuff.

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#37 Gtyler14

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 01:15 PM

View Postmjbaker80, on 01 February 2018 - 12:55 PM, said:

View Postdalton044, on 31 January 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

So basically DC TX flex shafts are now named XD and coming in full range of weights and flexes.

You may well be right!  And, if you are, I bet we DON'T see many tour guys move to the XD, because, they would have already (by switching to the KKDC TX flex (XT)) if it's the same shaft.  The only players that did were Sergio (won Masters with them in D, 3w and 5w and still using them) and Peter Uhlein (driver), I believe.

Everyone else in the old gen XT

I completely agree with the confusion comment.  I mean, look at this thread!  It's dizzying for us all and we are golf gear nerds.  And, the new color of the Tensei shafts (the non-pro model in the M3 and 4) isn't helping things either.  Not same as pro Tensei.....

I've had lengthy conversations with the guys at Fujikura (GREAT GUYS) and they are very much on board with making shaft lines more "understandable" to the public.  They were SUPER open minded to the feedback.  I think they've made huge strides in making their stuff more distinguishable since the Evolutions.....  I think Mitsu has some room to improve here, yet.  But, they sure do make great stuff.

Peter uses the dual core version of the XM since it has the gold lettering on it.
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#38 mjbaker80

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 04:12 PM

View PostGtyler14, on 01 February 2018 - 01:15 PM, said:

View Postmjbaker80, on 01 February 2018 - 12:55 PM, said:

View Postdalton044, on 31 January 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

So basically DC TX flex shafts are now named XD and coming in full range of weights and flexes.

You may well be right!  And, if you are, I bet we DON'T see many tour guys move to the XD, because, they would have already (by switching to the KKDC TX flex (XT)) if it's the same shaft.  The only players that did were Sergio (won Masters with them in D, 3w and 5w and still using them) and Peter Uhlein (driver), I believe.

Everyone else in the old gen XT

I completely agree with the confusion comment.  I mean, look at this thread!  It's dizzying for us all and we are golf gear nerds.  And, the new color of the Tensei shafts (the non-pro model in the M3 and 4) isn't helping things either.  Not same as pro Tensei.....

I've had lengthy conversations with the guys at Fujikura (GREAT GUYS) and they are very much on board with making shaft lines more "understandable" to the public.  They were SUPER open minded to the feedback.  I think they've made huge strides in making their stuff more distinguishable since the Evolutions.....  I think Mitsu has some room to improve here, yet.  But, they sure do make great stuff.

Peter uses the dual core version of the XM since it has the gold lettering on it.

My bad!  On GolfWRX;s Instagram, yesterday, it showed the bottom of the graphics....looked like a KKDCT 60 TX to me!

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#39 dalton044

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 05:31 PM

View Postmjbaker80, on 01 February 2018 - 12:55 PM, said:

View Postdalton044, on 31 January 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

So basically DC TX flex shafts are now named XD and coming in full range of weights and flexes.

I completely agree with the confusion comment.  I mean, look at this thread!  It's dizzying for us all and we are golf gear nerds.  And, the new color of the Tensei shafts (the non-pro model in the M3 and 4) isn't helping things either.  Not same as pro Tensei.....

I think they change the Pro White to the silver color as well. Remember seeing their catalog for 2018 posted somewhere on here. Wild guess, but Taylormade possible struck a deal so that their stock shafts look the same as what Tiger and others play.
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#40 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 05:51 PM

View PostHarob11, on 31 January 2018 - 07:53 PM, said:

Mitsubishi - Best shafts. Most absurdly redundant and confusing lineup.

Seven Dreamers would have something to say about your assertion. LOL.

But I am a big Mitsu fan as well.

I agree that the last couple years has been very messy and confusing with the different names and models.

We are total gearheads on this site and we are confused.  What about the general public?  Jeez.

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#41 TollBros

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 06:57 PM

It's different than the Dual Core XT. It's lower torque than the XT and has a bit different make up in the Tini wire. It is supposed to be low torque, low spin, but I can't really tell you how it compares head to head with the Dual Core XT. Believe it or not, it's not a product we have tested yet. It was a sooner than anticipated release by Mitsubishi Japan, so it is the rare piece I can't really comment on just yet, in terms of performance. Hopefully that will change soon, but it is definitely a different shaft than the Dual Core XT or TX flex.
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#42 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 07:55 PM

 TollBros, on 01 February 2018 - 06:57 PM, said:

It's different than the Dual Core XT. It's lower torque than the XT and has a bit different make up in the Tini wire. It is supposed to be low torque, low spin, but I can't really tell you how it compares head to head with the Dual Core XT. Believe it or not, it's not a product we have tested yet. It was a sooner than anticipated release by Mitsubishi Japan, so it is the rare piece I can't really comment on just yet, in terms of performance. Hopefully that will change soon, but it is definitely a different shaft than the Dual Core XT or TX flex.

I’m curious as to what the torque specs are on the dual core XT 70 TX.  The Mitsu website is useless because they aren’t listed anywhere.

A standard dual core 70 X is listed at 3.1
A standard silver XT 70 TX is listed at 3.2.
The dual core with the XT tip in 70TX then is almost certainly less than 3.1 since it is a blending of the two.

The new XD literature listed in the first post says the 70TX is 2.9.

If the translation Noodle provided earlier is correct, it seems to be EXACTLY describing what the current dual core XT is in the 70TX and 60TX flex.:

Two-layered titanium nickel "DUAL CORE" realizes even lower spin. Hit the distance up with toughness not to be defeated.
In the XT series released in 2015, "titanium nickel fiber" which has the property of recovering its original shape promptly even when it is deformed is compound molded at the tip.
In the XD series, we are pursuing even lower spin by evolving this titanium nickel fiber to "dual core" where it is arranged in two layers.
It prevents "hit loss" of the shaft tip part at the time of impact and creates a high trajectory of low spin.

Edited by Jagpilotohio, 01 February 2018 - 08:08 PM.

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#43 noodle3872

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 12:01 AM

MCA’s US Press Release

http://www.mca-golf....0118 vFINAL.pdf


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Taylormade 2017 M2 15° fairway wood with MCA Tensei CK Pro Blue 70 S Flex
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#44 TollBros

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 01:27 AM

 Jagpilotohio, on 01 February 2018 - 07:55 PM, said:

 TollBros, on 01 February 2018 - 06:57 PM, said:

It's different than the Dual Core XT. It's lower torque than the XT and has a bit different make up in the Tini wire. It is supposed to be low torque, low spin, but I can't really tell you how it compares head to head with the Dual Core XT. Believe it or not, it's not a product we have tested yet. It was a sooner than anticipated release by Mitsubishi Japan, so it is the rare piece I can't really comment on just yet, in terms of performance. Hopefully that will change soon, but it is definitely a different shaft than the Dual Core XT or TX flex.

I'm curious as to what the torque specs are on the dual core XT 70 TX.  The Mitsu website is useless because they aren't listed anywhere.

A standard dual core 70 X is listed at 3.1
A standard silver XT 70 TX is listed at 3.2.
The dual core with the XT tip in 70TX then is almost certainly less than 3.1 since it is a blending of the two.

The new XD literature listed in the first post says the 70TX is 2.9.

If the translation Noodle provided earlier is correct, it seems to be EXACTLY describing what the current dual core XT is in the 70TX and 60TX flex.:

Two-layered titanium nickel "DUAL CORE" realizes even lower spin. Hit the distance up with toughness not to be defeated.
In the XT series released in 2015, "titanium nickel fiber" which has the property of recovering its original shape promptly even when it is deformed is compound molded at the tip.
In the XD series, we are pursuing even lower spin by evolving this titanium nickel fiber to "dual core" where it is arranged in two layers.
It prevents "hit loss" of the shaft tip part at the time of impact and creates a high trajectory of low spin.

The info I relayed is straight from the mouth of the source. It's not the same shaft. Who knows, it could be better, similar, or worse. I don't know yet. How different the performance is between the two, I don't know. I'll let you guys know when we get through the testing process and evaluate them.
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#45 mjbaker80

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 01:27 AM

Was hoping Toll would chime in!  He’s the one that explained everything to me PRE XD.  His take certainly reinforce the reps explanation that I relayed about.  The XD is NOT a rebranded TX flex of a former XT, namely the KKDC in TX flex.


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#46 TollBros

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 01:31 AM

 mjbaker80, on 02 February 2018 - 01:27 AM, said:

Was hoping Toll would chime in!  He’s the one that explained everything to me PRE XD.  His take certainly reinforce the reps explanation that I relayed about.  The XD is NOT a rebranded TX flex of a former XT, namely the KKDC in TX flex.

We should have some performance and player analysis comparisons I can share within a week or two on it. Right now, we haven't hit with being gone for a week and shut down. It's pretty much a "next up" product for data collection. It's certainly a product I'm anxious to hit. What I most am curious about is if it is able to retain that unicorn quality you hear so much about from the guys that play the Dual Core XT. That is that it's very smooth when you swing easy, but has the sensation of stiffening up the more you lean into it. That's what makes it so special, and I'm curious to see if that feel is something that applies to XD as well.
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#47 mjbaker80

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 08:40 AM

Looking forward to your review Toll!  I, for one, found the KKDC XT (60 TX) to be a bit much for my move.  Quite stout.  VERY low spin (lowest when tested against Tensei White and OG XT).  In terms of spin killing, it was right there w the T1100 for me.  But, that may vary per player of course.

Edited by mjbaker80, 02 February 2018 - 08:41 AM.


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#48 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 10:56 AM

 TollBros, on 02 February 2018 - 01:31 AM, said:

 mjbaker80, on 02 February 2018 - 01:27 AM, said:

Was hoping Toll would chime in!  He’s the one that explained everything to me PRE XD.  His take certainly reinforce the reps explanation that I relayed about.  The XD is NOT a rebranded TX flex of a former XT, namely the KKDC in TX flex.

We should have some performance and player analysis comparisons I can share within a week or two on it. Right now, we haven't hit with being gone for a week and shut down. It's pretty much a "next up" product for data collection. It's certainly a product I'm anxious to hit. What I most am curious about is if it is able to retain that unicorn quality you hear so much about from the guys that play the Dual Core XT. That is that it's very smooth when you swing easy, but has the sensation of stiffening up the more you lean into it. That's what makes it so special, and I'm curious to see if that feel is something that applies to XD as well.

I like the way you describe the Dual Core XT..  I’ve been playing it for a year now in 70TX.

I like your description of its “strangeness”.  It is a strange shaft in that when I swing deliberately easy and smooth it doesn’t feel terribly stiff.  Surprisingly soft actually.  It has no issue  with an 80% effort and will still kick for me, even though it’s a TX.

Then you can go up a gear with it at 95% on that dog left par 5 and hit the high hard draw and it seems to magically firm up as you swing it harder. It’s just really rare that this thing ever feels to firm or too soft. Quite Weird.

I have essentially stopped looking for shafts since I found this guy, and I previously have never owned a shaft I could get consistently below 3000 rpm’s.

I would agree 100% that it is a “Unicorn”.....that Said, it won’t suit a LOT of players out there.  Not enough spin actually.
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#49 TollBros

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 12:07 PM

 Jagpilotohio, on 02 February 2018 - 10:56 AM, said:

 TollBros, on 02 February 2018 - 01:31 AM, said:

 mjbaker80, on 02 February 2018 - 01:27 AM, said:

Was hoping Toll would chime in!  He’s the one that explained everything to me PRE XD.  His take certainly reinforce the reps explanation that I relayed about.  The XD is NOT a rebranded TX flex of a former XT, namely the KKDC in TX flex.

We should have some performance and player analysis comparisons I can share within a week or two on it. Right now, we haven't hit with being gone for a week and shut down. It's pretty much a "next up" product for data collection. It's certainly a product I'm anxious to hit. What I most am curious about is if it is able to retain that unicorn quality you hear so much about from the guys that play the Dual Core XT. That is that it's very smooth when you swing easy, but has the sensation of stiffening up the more you lean into it. That's what makes it so special, and I'm curious to see if that feel is something that applies to XD as well.

I like the way you describe the Dual Core XT..  I’ve been playing it for a year now in 70TX.

I like your description of its “strangeness”.  It is a strange shaft in that when I swing deliberately easy and smooth it doesn’t feel terribly stiff.  Surprisingly soft actually.  It has no issue  with an 80% effort and will still kick for me, even though it’s a TX.

Then you can go up a gear with it at 95% on that dog left par 5 and hit the high hard draw and it seems to magically firm up as you swing it harder. It’s just really rare that this thing ever feels to firm or too soft. Quite Weird.

I have essentially stopped looking for shafts since I found this guy, and I previously have never owned a shaft I could get consistently below 3000 rpm’s.

I would agree 100% that it is a “Unicorn”.....that Said, it won’t suit a LOT of players out there.  Not enough spin actually.

Exactly. It is highly unlikely in that "varying flex" feel dynamic. I've really never felt another shaft quite like it. And you are correct, it is very low spin. Too low for most average golfers, which is why I can't see the XD being lower spin, as it would really put it fitting a very small demographic. I would say overall, we have had the highest level of sales, coupled with overwealmingly positive feedback with Dual Core XT and Synergy Black. DCXT is a very popular shaft among better players.
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#50 ignitewvu

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 12:36 PM

 Harob11, on 31 January 2018 - 07:53 PM, said:

Mitsubishi - Best shafts. Most absurdly redundant and confusing lineup.

IMO Fuji takes confusion to a whole nother level but makes shafts just as good.

M4 9.5 Mitsubishi Diamana D+ 70 LTD Stiff
M3 15 3 Wood Mitsubishi Diamana D+ 80 LTD Stiff
Adams Pro Tour Issued 18 Hybrid Matrix Altus HYBRID Stiff
TM SLDR 4i @ 39" DGSLS300
Bridgestone J40DPF 5-PW DG Pro S300
Callaway Mack Daddy Fogred 52, 56 & 60 DGS200
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#51 moonshine

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 12:46 PM

 TollBros, on 02 February 2018 - 01:31 AM, said:

 mjbaker80, on 02 February 2018 - 01:27 AM, said:

Was hoping Toll would chime in!  He’s the one that explained everything to me PRE XD.  His take certainly reinforce the reps explanation that I relayed about.  The XD is NOT a rebranded TX flex of a former XT, namely the KKDC in TX flex.

We should have some performance and player analysis comparisons I can share within a week or two on it. Right now, we haven't hit with being gone for a week and shut down. It's pretty much a "next up" product for data collection. It's certainly a product I'm anxious to hit. What I most am curious about is if it is able to retain that unicorn quality you hear so much about from the guys that play the Dual Core XT. That is that it's very smooth when you swing easy, but has the sensation of stiffening up the more you lean into it. That's what makes it so special, and I'm curious to see if that feel is something that applies to XD as well.
Exactly!  @Toll writes perfectly why the current XT is so good..and I don't want "stout" if it messes up that syrupy feel.  Can't wait to see what you guys think after testing.
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#52 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 01:05 PM

 noodle3872, on 02 February 2018 - 12:01 AM, said:

MCA’s US Press Release

http://www.mca-golf....0118 vFINAL.pdf

From the release:

“Lower torque, launch and spin than the XT” with 1.5 times LONGER Dual Core TiNi wire in the outer piles for increased feel and performance”.

Wow.  The XT has 13 inches of wire up the tip.  This one must have about 20 inches in the dual core layout. Sounds exciting.

Oh boy.  I predict a winner... An improved DCXT.... I’m not sure if they can do that......Time to Replenish the PayPal account.
9.5* Cobra LTD,  Old school Grafalloy Blue, 43.5"
14* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X 42"
16* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X, 41.5" (set to 17*)
19* Titleist 816 H2 fuji 8.8X TS 40.0"
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#53 TollBros

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 05:19 PM

 Jagpilotohio, on 02 February 2018 - 01:05 PM, said:

 noodle3872, on 02 February 2018 - 12:01 AM, said:

MCA’s US Press Release

http://www.mca-golf....0118 vFINAL.pdf

From the release:

“Lower torque, launch and spin than the XT” with 1.5 times LONGER Dual Core TiNi wire in the outer piles for increased feel and performance”.

Wow.  The XT has 13 inches of wire up the tip.  This one must have about 20 inches in the dual core layout. Sounds exciting.

Oh boy.  I predict a winner... An improved DCXT.... I’m not sure if they can do that......Time to Replenish the PayPal account.

I hope so. The proof is in the data, and that starts next Wednesday. We are going to do a direct comparison with DCXT and log player feel and opinions as well.
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#54 cvvorst

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 04:22 PM

 TollBros, on 02 February 2018 - 05:19 PM, said:

 Jagpilotohio, on 02 February 2018 - 01:05 PM, said:

 noodle3872, on 02 February 2018 - 12:01 AM, said:

MCA’s US Press Release

http://www.mca-golf....0118 vFINAL.pdf

From the release:

“Lower torque, launch and spin than the XT” with 1.5 times LONGER Dual Core TiNi wire in the outer piles for increased feel and performance”.

Wow.  The XT has 13 inches of wire up the tip.  This one must have about 20 inches in the dual core layout. Sounds exciting.

Oh boy.  I predict a winner... An improved DCXT.... I’m not sure if they can do that......Time to Replenish the PayPal account.

I hope so. The proof is in the data, and that starts next Wednesday. We are going to do a direct comparison with DCXT and log player feel and opinions as well.

Any word on this? When will you guys get the shafts in stock?
Ping G400 Max Kuro Kage Dual Core 70 TX or T1100 75 6.5 or TPT 14.5 MKP ////// Tour Issue TMAG 2017 M2 T1100 75 6.5
Ping G400 Stretch Diamana BF 80 TX
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#55 Peanut191

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 05:58 PM

Curious on the differences as well.  Looking forward to your findings Toll.

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#56 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 10:55 PM

Bump.  Any news on this?  I thought Toll  was  testing it last week.
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#57 cvvorst

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 05:37 PM

 Jagpilotohio, on 18 February 2018 - 10:55 PM, said:

Bump.  Any news on this?  I thought Toll  was  testing it last week.

2 weeks ago I think? But they might be backed up in testing, or waiting until they have them in hand?
Ping G400 Max Kuro Kage Dual Core 70 TX or T1100 75 6.5 or TPT 14.5 MKP ////// Tour Issue TMAG 2017 M2 T1100 75 6.5
Ping G400 Stretch Diamana BF 80 TX
PXG 0311X 3 Iron HZRDUS Red 105 6.5
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#58 Stinger26

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 10:00 AM

 TollBros, on 02 February 2018 - 01:31 AM, said:

 mjbaker80, on 02 February 2018 - 01:27 AM, said:

Was hoping Toll would chime in!  He’s the one that explained everything to me PRE XD.  His take certainly reinforce the reps explanation that I relayed about.  The XD is NOT a rebranded TX flex of a former XT, namely the KKDC in TX flex.

We should have some performance and player analysis comparisons I can share within a week or two on it. Right now, we haven't hit with being gone for a week and shut down. It's pretty much a "next up" product for data collection. It's certainly a product I'm anxious to hit. What I most am curious about is if it is able to retain that unicorn quality you hear so much about from the guys that play the Dual Core XT. That is that it's very smooth when you swing easy, but has the sensation of stiffening up the more you lean into it. That's what makes it so special, and I'm curious to see if that feel is something that applies to XD as well.
Patiently awaiting your feedback! I am playing the original XT (non dual core) now. Would love to see how that compares.
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#59 Kaexo

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 06:09 PM

Also would like to see Tolls feedback.

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#60 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 06:21 PM

He said in another thread a couple days ago that they’ve done the testing but he is waiting for the bosses approval to post the results.

9.5* Cobra LTD,  Old school Grafalloy Blue, 43.5"
14* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X 42"
16* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X, 41.5" (set to 17*)
19* Titleist 816 H2 fuji 8.8X TS 40.0"
4-9 2016 Hogan PTx, KBS Tour V, 120X
Ping glide 2 46-12, 50-12, 54-14 (at 55) stealth, 60-14(at 61) stealth, All wedges Recoil Proto 125 F5
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