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When to play up


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#1 CTgolf

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 02:36 AM

If a junior golfer is consistently winning among his same-age peers, at what point does it make sense to play up in age group?

Does it matter if distances are longer (i.e. not able to reach greens in reg consistently)?

It seems like a fine balance between developing a winning mentality (dominating) vs being challenged to maximize potential.

In tennis, the optimal way to get better seems to be to play against superior players, without getting too discouraged from being beaten often.

Thoughts?


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#2 tiger1873

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 08:29 AM

I am not sure there is a set number or specific event.  I think kids need to be challenged and it depends on a lot factors.

When they are younger you should move them up when they win. I would say sooner rather then later. When they are older it is a much harder decision. For instance moving up from 11-12 to 13-14 locally here is a big jump there are no caddies at that level. In a lot cases I see kids moved up but honestly there not yet there in maturity. I think the issue never goes away for girls either. I really think too many girls should be focus on college playing then jump ship after a semester and turn pro. With boys it just much harder to win angainst the competition so you donít see 12 year olds i. The US Open.

It is not an easy question to answer.

Edited by tiger1873, 23 January 2018 - 08:33 AM.


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#3 darter79

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 08:33 AM

Well for us kids golf you can’t move up.  You have to play in your age group. Unless you like on the birthdate

Others you can like the junior pga at least here in Texas. I would make sure the distances you can get home in two on par 4s even if it’s with the longest iron in the bag. If he can’t he gonna struggle to make pars.

Let them dominate and learn how to score.

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#4 leezer99

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:54 AM

View PostCTgolf, on 23 January 2018 - 02:36 AM, said:


It seems like a fine balance between developing a winning mentality (dominating) vs being challenged to maximize potential.


What does it mean to have a winning mentality at 7, 9 or 12 years old?  You were a winner when you were a kid but a loser now that you're older and don't win every tournament?  Doesn't sound healthy.  Seems like you'd end up like Al Bundy and have great stories about scoring winning touchdowns in high school but sell shoes in a strip mall as an adult.

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#5 CTgolf

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 12:01 PM

View Postleezer99, on 23 January 2018 - 11:54 AM, said:

View PostCTgolf, on 23 January 2018 - 02:36 AM, said:

It seems like a fine balance between developing a winning mentality (dominating) vs being challenged to maximize potential.


What does it mean to have a winning mentality at 7, 9 or 12 years old?  You were a winner when you were a kid but a loser now that you're older and don't win every tournament?  Doesn't sound healthy.  Seems like you'd end up like Al Bundy and have great stories about scoring winning touchdowns in high school but sell shoes in a strip mall as an adult.

Winning playing at your age group vs not winning playing in an older age group than your current age


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#6 darter79

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 02:34 PM

View PostCTgolf, on 23 January 2018 - 12:01 PM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 23 January 2018 - 11:54 AM, said:

View PostCTgolf, on 23 January 2018 - 02:36 AM, said:

It seems like a fine balance between developing a winning mentality (dominating) vs being challenged to maximize potential.


What does it mean to have a winning mentality at 7, 9 or 12 years old?  You were a winner when you were a kid but a loser now that you're older and don't win every tournament?  Doesn't sound healthy.  Seems like you'd end up like Al Bundy and have great stories about scoring winning touchdowns in high school but sell shoes in a strip mall as an adult.

Winning playing at your age group vs not winning playing in an older age group than your current age

guess that depends is he shooting 29 and 30s? whats the winning score.  If it were me I keep them down, unless they are shooting 29's.

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#7 heavy_hitter

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 05:53 PM

View Posttiger1873, on 23 January 2018 - 08:29 AM, said:

I am not sure there is a set number or specific event.  I think kids need to be challenged and it depends on a lot factors.

When they are younger you should move them up when they win. I would say sooner rather then later. When they are older it is a much harder decision. For instance moving up from 11-12 to 13-14 locally here is a big jump there are no caddies at that level. In a lot cases I see kids moved up but honestly there not yet there in maturity. I think the issue never goes away for girls either. I really think too many girls should be focus on college playing then jump ship after a semester and turn pro. With boys it just much harder to win angainst the competition so you don't see 12 year olds i. The US Open.

It is not an easy question to answer.

Best thing to happen to a kid is their parents not being their to caddie for them.

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#8 wildcatden

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 06:05 PM

USKG was already mentioned and you can't play up an age. I checked JGANC and you can't move up either. If your kid is 7, playing in the 7-9 age group  (or 10 and playing the 10-12 group) and smoking the competition, I would suggest a cigar and a smile.

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#9 tiger1873

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 07:11 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 23 January 2018 - 05:53 PM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 23 January 2018 - 08:29 AM, said:

I am not sure there is a set number or specific event.  I think kids need to be challenged and it depends on a lot factors.

When they are younger you should move them up when they win. I would say sooner rather then later. When they are older it is a much harder decision. For instance moving up from 11-12 to 13-14 locally here is a big jump there are no caddies at that level. In a lot cases I see kids moved up but honestly there not yet there in maturity. I think the issue never goes away for girls either. I really think too many girls should be focus on college playing then jump ship after a semester and turn pro. With boys it just much harder to win angainst the competition so you don't see 12 year olds i. The US Open.

It is not an easy question to answer.

Best thing to happen to a kid is their parents not being their to caddie for them.

Couldnít agree more with this statement.  It a big jump socially though for them.  

I am wrestling with the this issue right now. She is only 11 and could easily play without me as a caddie. The problem is not the distance or maturity on the course but it an issue socially because there is a big difference between a 13 year old and 11 year old in non golf stuff.

I have seen other kids do it and it always seems to be rough on them them and sometimes makes golf not fun for them.

Edited by tiger1873, 23 January 2018 - 07:13 PM.


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#10 leezer99

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 08:31 PM

View Posttiger1873, on 23 January 2018 - 07:11 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 23 January 2018 - 05:53 PM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 23 January 2018 - 08:29 AM, said:

I am not sure there is a set number or specific event.  I think kids need to be challenged and it depends on a lot factors.

When they are younger you should move them up when they win. I would say sooner rather then later. When they are older it is a much harder decision. For instance moving up from 11-12 to 13-14 locally here is a big jump there are no caddies at that level. In a lot cases I see kids moved up but honestly there not yet there in maturity. I think the issue never goes away for girls either. I really think too many girls should be focus on college playing then jump ship after a semester and turn pro. With boys it just much harder to win angainst the competition so you don't see 12 year olds i. The US Open.

It is not an easy question to answer.

Best thing to happen to a kid is their parents not being their to caddie for them.

Couldn't agree more with this statement.  It a big jump socially though for them.  

I am wrestling with the this issue right now. She is only 11 and could easily play without me as a caddie. The problem is not the distance or maturity on the course but it an issue socially because there is a big difference between a 13 year old and 11 year old in non golf stuff.

I have seen other kids do it and it always seems to be rough on them them and sometimes makes golf not fun for them.

Let her go man.  Give her a chance to impress you.


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#11 heavy_hitter

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 09:15 PM

View Postleezer99, on 23 January 2018 - 08:31 PM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 23 January 2018 - 07:11 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 23 January 2018 - 05:53 PM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 23 January 2018 - 08:29 AM, said:

I am not sure there is a set number or specific event.  I think kids need to be challenged and it depends on a lot factors.

When they are younger you should move them up when they win. I would say sooner rather then later. When they are older it is a much harder decision. For instance moving up from 11-12 to 13-14 locally here is a big jump there are no caddies at that level. In a lot cases I see kids moved up but honestly there not yet there in maturity. I think the issue never goes away for girls either. I really think too many girls should be focus on college playing then jump ship after a semester and turn pro. With boys it just much harder to win angainst the competition so you don't see 12 year olds i. The US Open.

It is not an easy question to answer.

Best thing to happen to a kid is their parents not being their to caddie for them.

Couldn't agree more with this statement.  It a big jump socially though for them.  

I am wrestling with the this issue right now. She is only 11 and could easily play without me as a caddie. The problem is not the distance or maturity on the course but it an issue socially because there is a big difference between a 13 year old and 11 year old in non golf stuff.

I have seen other kids do it and it always seems to be rough on them them and sometimes makes golf not fun for them.

Let her go man.  Give her a chance to impress you.

100% agree.  She will surprise you.  My 12 year old 7th grader regularly plays with  9th an 10th graders.

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#12 leezer99

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 09:44 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 23 January 2018 - 09:15 PM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 23 January 2018 - 08:31 PM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 23 January 2018 - 07:11 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 23 January 2018 - 05:53 PM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 23 January 2018 - 08:29 AM, said:

I am not sure there is a set number or specific event.  I think kids need to be challenged and it depends on a lot factors.

When they are younger you should move them up when they win. I would say sooner rather then later. When they are older it is a much harder decision. For instance moving up from 11-12 to 13-14 locally here is a big jump there are no caddies at that level. In a lot cases I see kids moved up but honestly there not yet there in maturity. I think the issue never goes away for girls either. I really think too many girls should be focus on college playing then jump ship after a semester and turn pro. With boys it just much harder to win angainst the competition so you don't see 12 year olds i. The US Open.

It is not an easy question to answer.

Best thing to happen to a kid is their parents not being their to caddie for them.

Couldn't agree more with this statement.  It a big jump socially though for them.  

I am wrestling with the this issue right now. She is only 11 and could easily play without me as a caddie. The problem is not the distance or maturity on the course but it an issue socially because there is a big difference between a 13 year old and 11 year old in non golf stuff.

I have seen other kids do it and it always seems to be rough on them them and sometimes makes golf not fun for them.

Let her go man.  Give her a chance to impress you.

100% agree.  She will surprise you.  My 12 year old 7th grader regularly plays with  9th an 10th graders.
I didn't mention it because girl dynamics are way different but my fourth grader (boy) plays with a 12 & 16 year old pretty regularly. This is how he expands his golf IQ and non golf vocabulary.

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#13 tiger1873

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 09:56 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 23 January 2018 - 09:15 PM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 23 January 2018 - 08:31 PM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 23 January 2018 - 07:11 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 23 January 2018 - 05:53 PM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 23 January 2018 - 08:29 AM, said:

I am not sure there is a set number or specific event.  I think kids need to be challenged and it depends on a lot factors.

When they are younger you should move them up when they win. I would say sooner rather then later. When they are older it is a much harder decision. For instance moving up from 11-12 to 13-14 locally here is a big jump there are no caddies at that level. In a lot cases I see kids moved up but honestly there not yet there in maturity. I think the issue never goes away for girls either. I really think too many girls should be focus on college playing then jump ship after a semester and turn pro. With boys it just much harder to win angainst the competition so you don't see 12 year olds i. The US Open.

It is not an easy question to answer.

Best thing to happen to a kid is their parents not being their to caddie for them.

Couldn't agree more with this statement.  It a big jump socially though for them.  

I am wrestling with the this issue right now. She is only 11 and could easily play without me as a caddie. The problem is not the distance or maturity on the course but it an issue socially because there is a big difference between a 13 year old and 11 year old in non golf stuff.

I have seen other kids do it and it always seems to be rough on them them and sometimes makes golf not fun for them.

Let her go man.  Give her a chance to impress you.

100% agree.  She will surprise you.  My 12 year old 7th grader regularly plays with  9th an 10th graders.

I most likely will but it will not be until summer.

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#14 CTgolf

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 01:09 AM

View Posttiger1873, on 23 January 2018 - 07:11 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 23 January 2018 - 05:53 PM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 23 January 2018 - 08:29 AM, said:

I am not sure there is a set number or specific event.  I think kids need to be challenged and it depends on a lot factors.

When they are younger you should move them up when they win. I would say sooner rather then later. When they are older it is a much harder decision. For instance moving up from 11-12 to 13-14 locally here is a big jump there are no caddies at that level. In a lot cases I see kids moved up but honestly there not yet there in maturity. I think the issue never goes away for girls either. I really think too many girls should be focus on college playing then jump ship after a semester and turn pro. With boys it just much harder to win angainst the competition so you don't see 12 year olds i. The US Open.

It is not an easy question to answer.

Best thing to happen to a kid is their parents not being their to caddie for them.

Couldn’t agree more with this statement.  It a big jump socially though for them.  

I am wrestling with the this issue right now. She is only 11 and could easily play without me as a caddie. The problem is not the distance or maturity on the course but it an issue socially because there is a big difference between a 13 year old and 11 year old in non golf stuff.

I have seen other kids do it and it always seems to be rough on them them and sometimes makes golf not fun for them.

While my initial question was regarding dealing with the mental side of handling the transition from consistently winning (and expecting to do so) to potentially just being middle of the pack-ish, the social aspect is a concern for me as well

It is unpredictable who you are grouped with and what the dynamic would be like; the age jump I am thinking of could be playing with kids up to 5yrs older; they are playing to win and there is no reason to be civilized or, in the most pessimistic case, for intimidation or verbal abuse to be used to try to get an edge (heard of one instance where this occurred)

It seems very different than playing with older friends or kids at the club where you have an ongoing relationship and there is more of a big sibling-type dynamic

To provide context, they are already playing unaccompanied (carrying own bags) in our local PGA section at the age-appropriate group and obviously would continue to do so in any step up in age group

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#15 TimberBeast

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 09:43 AM

Not being able to play my daughter up in US Kids pretty much ended her playing in US Kids tournaments.  I had intended to let her play up when she was 11 last year on the Summer Tour in our area mainly to get her used to walking 18 holes and getting ready for her to age up to the 12's, not just in US Kids but everything else as well.  I didn't know she couldn't age up until I tried to sign her up on the website for the 12 and over group and realized I couldn't.  That was pretty much it.  It was more beneficial to go and play 18 holes with her than for
her to keep playing those 9 hole tournaments at those distances really short distances.  They really need to rethink that rule.


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#16 tiger1873

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 12:03 PM

View PostTimberBeast, on 24 January 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

Not being able to play my daughter up in US Kids pretty much ended her playing in US Kids tournaments.  I had intended to let her play up when she was 11 last year on the Summer Tour in our area mainly to get her used to walking 18 holes and getting ready for her to age up to the 12's, not just in US Kids but everything else as well.  I didn't know she couldn't age up until I tried to sign her up on the website for the 12 and over group and realized I couldn't.  That was pretty much it.  It was more beneficial to go and play 18 holes with her than for
her to keep playing those 9 hole tournaments at those distances really short distances.  They really need to rethink that rule.

I am not sure if the rule is bad. I have a younger girl and it still a good venue for her especially for locals. Over all I think it's a great platform and experience for younger kids to play. The biggest problem I see parents tend to think it is a bigger deal then it is. The same thing can be said for Drive, Chip and putt challenge.

Playing up is really only good for more serious players and different tours. I think for most regional tours it makes sense to age up in many cases. The only thing is be careful not to over expose them when there still developing their game. The better your kids get the more pressure they will get.

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#17 twjames72

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 12:21 PM

Always play up.

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#18 TimberBeast

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 12:22 PM

View Posttiger1873, on 24 January 2018 - 12:03 PM, said:

View PostTimberBeast, on 24 January 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

Not being able to play my daughter up in US Kids pretty much ended her playing in US Kids tournaments.  I had intended to let her play up when she was 11 last year on the Summer Tour in our area mainly to get her used to walking 18 holes and getting ready for her to age up to the 12's, not just in US Kids but everything else as well.  I didn't know she couldn't age up until I tried to sign her up on the website for the 12 and over group and realized I couldn't.  That was pretty much it.  It was more beneficial to go and play 18 holes with her than for
her to keep playing those 9 hole tournaments at those distances really short distances.  They really need to rethink that rule.

I am not sure if the rule is bad. I have a younger girl and it still a good venue for her especially for locals. Over all I think it's a great platform and experience for younger kids to play. The biggest problem I see parents tend to think it is a bigger deal then it is. The same thing can be said for Drive, Chip and putt challenge.

Playing up is really only good for more serious players and different tours. I think for most regional tours it makes sense to age up in many cases. The only thing is be careful not to over expose them when there still developing their game. The better your kids get the more pressure they will get.

You have to look at it both ways though.  We were talking about my daughter playing up to 12 year olds when she was 11.  She was playing 9 holes with 10 year old kids and she was getting close to turning 11 so I wanted to use the US Kids tour to get her used to walking 18 holes.  Walking the 18 as opposed to 9 is the biggest jump they have to make, moreso than the distances they have to play, in my opinion.  We were essentially done with any 9 hole tournaments except a few remaining MJGA tournaments in MS, so there was no point to it anymore.  But they wanted to force her to play 9 hole short distances for the next two local tours.  There might be some good parts to the rule, but they lost us permanently because of it, and we're not the only ones.  We never did the regionals or worlds or that stuff because we don't have anything close to us, so her first tournament playing 18 holes were tournaments that she wasn't quite ready to play.  If she could have started doing 18 like we wanted her to when she was ready in US Kids she would have been more prepared for those.  But the US Kids rule in my opinion held her back from being prepared to play in a real tournament.   There is a flaw there.  The tour director gladly would have signed off on it too, but they don't give that option.  And I do understand that the locals are for younger kids to get into the game, so I get that part of it, but they are going to also lose good kids too because of not allowing them to play up.

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#19 tiger1873

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 06:01 PM

View PostTimberBeast, on 24 January 2018 - 12:22 PM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 24 January 2018 - 12:03 PM, said:

View PostTimberBeast, on 24 January 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

Not being able to play my daughter up in US Kids pretty much ended her playing in US Kids tournaments.  I had intended to let her play up when she was 11 last year on the Summer Tour in our area mainly to get her used to walking 18 holes and getting ready for her to age up to the 12's, not just in US Kids but everything else as well.  I didn't know she couldn't age up until I tried to sign her up on the website for the 12 and over group and realized I couldn't.  That was pretty much it.  It was more beneficial to go and play 18 holes with her than for
her to keep playing those 9 hole tournaments at those distances really short distances.  They really need to rethink that rule.

I am not sure if the rule is bad. I have a younger girl and it still a good venue for her especially for locals. Over all I think it's a great platform and experience for younger kids to play. The biggest problem I see parents tend to think it is a bigger deal then it is. The same thing can be said for Drive, Chip and putt challenge.

Playing up is really only good for more serious players and different tours. I think for most regional tours it makes sense to age up in many cases. The only thing is be careful not to over expose them when there still developing their game. The better your kids get the more pressure they will get.

You have to look at it both ways though.  We were talking about my daughter playing up to 12 year olds when she was 11.  She was playing 9 holes with 10 year old kids and she was getting close to turning 11 so I wanted to use the US Kids tour to get her used to walking 18 holes.  Walking the 18 as opposed to 9 is the biggest jump they have to make, moreso than the distances they have to play, in my opinion.  We were essentially done with any 9 hole tournaments except a few remaining MJGA tournaments in MS, so there was no point to it anymore.  But they wanted to force her to play 9 hole short distances for the next two local tours.  There might be some good parts to the rule, but they lost us permanently because of it, and we're not the only ones.  We never did the regionals or worlds or that stuff because we don't have anything close to us, so her first tournament playing 18 holes were tournaments that she wasn't quite ready to play.  If she could have started doing 18 like we wanted her to when she was ready in US Kids she would have been more prepared for those.  But the US Kids rule in my opinion held her back from being prepared to play in a real tournament.   There is a flaw there.  The tour director gladly would have signed off on it too, but they don't give that option.  And I do understand that the locals are for younger kids to get into the game, so I get that part of it, but they are going to also lose good kids too because of not allowing them to play up.

This is how you know it is time to move on. There plenty of other tournaments out there. With US kids it a good venue if you have a kid under 10 to get tournaments experience. If they do well you have a family trip to the worlds in pinehurst.

Itís really not much more then that. Even winning worlds doesnít mean your going to be a pro or even get a low level scholarship at a school. Great experience and can be fun but donít take it too serious.
The other thing is expect the first couple of 18 holes to be very challenging and just be happy they finish the round. Donít worry about they will be ok. Hopefully you have low level prep 18 hole tournaments you can play.

Edited by tiger1873, 24 January 2018 - 06:05 PM.


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#20 TimberBeast

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 10:21 AM

View Posttiger1873, on 24 January 2018 - 06:01 PM, said:

View PostTimberBeast, on 24 January 2018 - 12:22 PM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 24 January 2018 - 12:03 PM, said:

View PostTimberBeast, on 24 January 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

Not being able to play my daughter up in US Kids pretty much ended her playing in US Kids tournaments.  I had intended to let her play up when she was 11 last year on the Summer Tour in our area mainly to get her used to walking 18 holes and getting ready for her to age up to the 12's, not just in US Kids but everything else as well.  I didn't know she couldn't age up until I tried to sign her up on the website for the 12 and over group and realized I couldn't.  That was pretty much it.  It was more beneficial to go and play 18 holes with her than for
her to keep playing those 9 hole tournaments at those distances really short distances.  They really need to rethink that rule.

I am not sure if the rule is bad. I have a younger girl and it still a good venue for her especially for locals. Over all I think it's a great platform and experience for younger kids to play. The biggest problem I see parents tend to think it is a bigger deal then it is. The same thing can be said for Drive, Chip and putt challenge.

Playing up is really only good for more serious players and different tours. I think for most regional tours it makes sense to age up in many cases. The only thing is be careful not to over expose them when there still developing their game. The better your kids get the more pressure they will get.

You have to look at it both ways though.  We were talking about my daughter playing up to 12 year olds when she was 11.  She was playing 9 holes with 10 year old kids and she was getting close to turning 11 so I wanted to use the US Kids tour to get her used to walking 18 holes.  Walking the 18 as opposed to 9 is the biggest jump they have to make, moreso than the distances they have to play, in my opinion.  We were essentially done with any 9 hole tournaments except a few remaining MJGA tournaments in MS, so there was no point to it anymore.  But they wanted to force her to play 9 hole short distances for the next two local tours.  There might be some good parts to the rule, but they lost us permanently because of it, and we're not the only ones.  We never did the regionals or worlds or that stuff because we don't have anything close to us, so her first tournament playing 18 holes were tournaments that she wasn't quite ready to play.  If she could have started doing 18 like we wanted her to when she was ready in US Kids she would have been more prepared for those.  But the US Kids rule in my opinion held her back from being prepared to play in a real tournament.   There is a flaw there.  The tour director gladly would have signed off on it too, but they don't give that option.  And I do understand that the locals are for younger kids to get into the game, so I get that part of it, but they are going to also lose good kids too because of not allowing them to play up.

This is how you know it is time to move on. There plenty of other tournaments out there. With US kids it a good venue if you have a kid under 10 to get tournaments experience. If they do well you have a family trip to the worlds in pinehurst.

It's really not much more then that. Even winning worlds doesn't mean your going to be a pro or even get a low level scholarship at a school. Great experience and can be fun but don't take it too serious.
The other thing is expect the first couple of 18 holes to be very challenging and just be happy they finish the round. Don't worry about they will be ok. Hopefully you have low level prep 18 hole tournaments you can play.

"There are plenty of other tournaments out there" should not be a blanket statement.  There are not always plenty of other tournaments out there.  We have a couple things close by in the Summer but they are during the week, so they are a huge pain to try to get the kids to.  I have said it before on here worlds was never in the cards.  Once I looked at the expense of doing that trip there was no way we were messing with it.  

We have US Kids local tours in our backyard, and have Fall, Spring, and Summer tours.  One of the reasons I wanted to move her up in the US Kids tours was because she had a couple friends that she had played with for a couple years that she knew well who had just aged up also.  It would have been the perfect transition to 18 holes, and like I said, the most important part of that, walking 18 holes.  She was already playing 18 holes with me in a cart, but we were getting ready to get her walking 18 holes in 2 day tournaments that next year.  That's a different animal.  We don't push her at all, instead the opposite, I was trying to make it as easy and
smooth as I could to get her ready, but we didn't have that option with the US Kids tours.  US Kids locals really should look at letting kids play up, maybe if they are borderline age for the next group, and also possibly with the blessing of the tour director.  Not every situation fits every single child.

They would do themselves a huge favor (in my opinion) by looking at how junior tennis works.  I know that system because my daughter was in the middle of that before golf.  An 11 year old who is about to age up from 10-11 to 12-14 starts playing 12-14 several months before actually turning 12.  They can do 10-11 tournaments and 12-14, whichever they want.  If it's a bigger tournament you stay in your age group to keep working to qualify for bigger tournements, but if it's smaller, you play up to get ready for the next age group.  It's a continual ladder that you keep climbing rather than a bunch of small ladders that you have to climb, then wait at the top, and then climb the next little ladder, wait at the top until your birthday, then the next small ladder.  Golf tournaments are a little harder to set up and don't occur as frequently as tennis tournaments but I have been preaching that system to a couple tour directors since the first time she did a US Kids tour 4 years ago.


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#21 Ping Zings

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 12:13 PM

 wildcatden, on 23 January 2018 - 06:05 PM, said:

USKG was already mentioned and you can't play up an age. I checked JGANC and you can't move up either. If your kid is 7, playing in the 7-9 age group  (or 10 and playing the 10-12 group) and smoking the competition, I would suggest a cigar and a smile.

Riner :cheesy:
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#22 tiger1873

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 12:53 PM

I understand the frustration with USKids but if your near any decent size city you should have a regional PGA junior tour.

Not sure where you are but this should be an option. Usually they will allow kids to play up. This is more of a mid range place for kids to develop.  

2 day tournaments are the goal long term and really where you need to get them to play. All of those will require travel and expense.  None of these options are easy or cheap but I believe there are ways to make it manageable that most of us can afford it.

Edited by tiger1873, 25 January 2018 - 12:56 PM.


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#23 heavy_hitter

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 01:22 PM

 TimberBeast, on 25 January 2018 - 10:21 AM, said:

 tiger1873, on 24 January 2018 - 06:01 PM, said:

 TimberBeast, on 24 January 2018 - 12:22 PM, said:

 tiger1873, on 24 January 2018 - 12:03 PM, said:

 TimberBeast, on 24 January 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

Not being able to play my daughter up in US Kids pretty much ended her playing in US Kids tournaments.  I had intended to let her play up when she was 11 last year on the Summer Tour in our area mainly to get her used to walking 18 holes and getting ready for her to age up to the 12's, not just in US Kids but everything else as well.  I didn't know she couldn't age up until I tried to sign her up on the website for the 12 and over group and realized I couldn't.  That was pretty much it.  It was more beneficial to go and play 18 holes with her than for
her to keep playing those 9 hole tournaments at those distances really short distances.  They really need to rethink that rule.

I am not sure if the rule is bad. I have a younger girl and it still a good venue for her especially for locals. Over all I think it's a great platform and experience for younger kids to play. The biggest problem I see parents tend to think it is a bigger deal then it is. The same thing can be said for Drive, Chip and putt challenge.

Playing up is really only good for more serious players and different tours. I think for most regional tours it makes sense to age up in many cases. The only thing is be careful not to over expose them when there still developing their game. The better your kids get the more pressure they will get.

You have to look at it both ways though.  We were talking about my daughter playing up to 12 year olds when she was 11.  She was playing 9 holes with 10 year old kids and she was getting close to turning 11 so I wanted to use the US Kids tour to get her used to walking 18 holes.  Walking the 18 as opposed to 9 is the biggest jump they have to make, moreso than the distances they have to play, in my opinion.  We were essentially done with any 9 hole tournaments except a few remaining MJGA tournaments in MS, so there was no point to it anymore.  But they wanted to force her to play 9 hole short distances for the next two local tours.  There might be some good parts to the rule, but they lost us permanently because of it, and we're not the only ones.  We never did the regionals or worlds or that stuff because we don't have anything close to us, so her first tournament playing 18 holes were tournaments that she wasn't quite ready to play.  If she could have started doing 18 like we wanted her to when she was ready in US Kids she would have been more prepared for those.  But the US Kids rule in my opinion held her back from being prepared to play in a real tournament.   There is a flaw there.  The tour director gladly would have signed off on it too, but they don't give that option.  And I do understand that the locals are for younger kids to get into the game, so I get that part of it, but they are going to also lose good kids too because of not allowing them to play up.

This is how you know it is time to move on. There plenty of other tournaments out there. With US kids it a good venue if you have a kid under 10 to get tournaments experience. If they do well you have a family trip to the worlds in pinehurst.

It's really not much more then that. Even winning worlds doesn't mean your going to be a pro or even get a low level scholarship at a school. Great experience and can be fun but don't take it too serious.
The other thing is expect the first couple of 18 holes to be very challenging and just be happy they finish the round. Don't worry about they will be ok. Hopefully you have low level prep 18 hole tournaments you can play.

"There are plenty of other tournaments out there" should not be a blanket statement.  There are not always plenty of other tournaments out there.  We have a couple things close by in the Summer but they are during the week, so they are a huge pain to try to get the kids to.  I have said it before on here worlds was never in the cards.  Once I looked at the expense of doing that trip there was no way we were messing with it.  

We have US Kids local tours in our backyard, and have Fall, Spring, and Summer tours.  One of the reasons I wanted to move her up in the US Kids tours was because she had a couple friends that she had played with for a couple years that she knew well who had just aged up also.  It would have been the perfect transition to 18 holes, and like I said, the most important part of that, walking 18 holes.  She was already playing 18 holes with me in a cart, but we were getting ready to get her walking 18 holes in 2 day tournaments that next year.  That's a different animal.  We don't push her at all, instead the opposite, I was trying to make it as easy and
smooth as I could to get her ready, but we didn't have that option with the US Kids tours.  US Kids locals really should look at letting kids play up, maybe if they are borderline age for the next group, and also possibly with the blessing of the tour director.  Not every situation fits every single child.

They would do themselves a huge favor (in my opinion) by looking at how junior tennis works.  I know that system because my daughter was in the middle of that before golf.  An 11 year old who is about to age up from 10-11 to 12-14 starts playing 12-14 several months before actually turning 12.  They can do 10-11 tournaments and 12-14, whichever they want.  If it's a bigger tournament you stay in your age group to keep working to qualify for bigger tournements, but if it's smaller, you play up to get ready for the next age group.  It's a continual ladder that you keep climbing rather than a bunch of small ladders that you have to climb, then wait at the top, and then climb the next little ladder, wait at the top until your birthday, then the next small ladder.  Golf tournaments are a little harder to set up and don't occur as frequently as tennis tournaments but I have been preaching that system to a couple tour directors since the first time she did a US Kids tour 4 years ago.

It is a tricky and delicate subject.  I understand why they do it the way they do it.  Doesn't mean I like it or am going to complain about it.  It is what it is.  Kind of like watching a particular program on tv.  If you don't like it then change the station.

With that said, there is a reason they do it they way they do.  It is easier to tell everyone NO than to make exceptions which I agree with.

Edited by heavy_hitter, 25 January 2018 - 02:15 PM.


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#24 TimberBeast

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 01:47 PM

 heavy_hitter, on 25 January 2018 - 01:22 PM, said:

It is a tricky and delicate subject.  I understand why they do it the way they do it.  Doesn't mean I like it or am going to complain about it.  It is what it is.  Kind of like watching a particular program on tv.  If you don't like it then change the station.

With that said, there is a reason they do it they way they do.  It is easier to tell everyone know than to make exceptions which I agree with.

Oh yeah, I understand why they do it.  It would be tough to make exceptions especially across various tours across the country and world.  I thought the older age group would be a good transition for my daughter but probably best just to say we had fun with it while it lasted.

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#25 heavy_hitter

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 02:25 PM

 TimberBeast, on 25 January 2018 - 01:47 PM, said:

 heavy_hitter, on 25 January 2018 - 01:22 PM, said:

It is a tricky and delicate subject.  I understand why they do it the way they do it.  Doesn't mean I like it or am going to complain about it.  It is what it is.  Kind of like watching a particular program on tv.  If you don't like it then change the station.

With that said, there is a reason they do it they way they do.  It is easier to tell everyone know than to make exceptions which I agree with.

Oh yeah, I understand why they do it.  It would be tough to make exceptions especially across various tours across the country and world.  I thought the older age group would be a good transition for my daughter but probably best just to say we had fun with it while it lasted.

US Kids was a great experience for us.  I have a lot of great memories.  Like everything, there is a time to move on.  I told my son after 12 year old World Championships... NO MORE.  LOL.  There really isn't a use for it after the age of 12 for girl's or boy's.  Once you have played in multi-day events, a local isn't even a good warm-up or practice round.  Distances are too short.

To the OP's question, I would move my kid up if I could answer yes to these 3 questions
1.  Does he have a chance to win if I move him up?
2.  Can he play from the distances they are playing from?  Reaching Par 4's in two and not having to use Driver on a Par 3.
3.  Will he break 80.

For the first time ever I am not playing him into the next age group yet.  12 going on 13 is tough.  Have they reached puberty and physical maturity to play 6500 yards is a big issue at this point.  Even at 13 if he doesn't have the distance I am going to hold him out from playing until I know he can compete.  I am not going to throw him out there just because it is ranked.  I want him playing in that next age bracket knowing he can win.  He will have the distance and can probably shoot right around 80 from 6500 yards, but there is no reason to put him through that.  In 6-12 months he will have that distance just because of growth.


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#26 propredicr

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 02:35 PM

 heavy_hitter, on 25 January 2018 - 02:25 PM, said:

 TimberBeast, on 25 January 2018 - 01:47 PM, said:

 heavy_hitter, on 25 January 2018 - 01:22 PM, said:

It is a tricky and delicate subject.  I understand why they do it the way they do it.  Doesn't mean I like it or am going to complain about it.  It is what it is.  Kind of like watching a particular program on tv.  If you don't like it then change the station.

With that said, there is a reason they do it they way they do.  It is easier to tell everyone know than to make exceptions which I agree with.

Oh yeah, I understand why they do it.  It would be tough to make exceptions especially across various tours across the country and world.  I thought the older age group would be a good transition for my daughter but probably best just to say we had fun with it while it lasted.

US Kids was a great experience for us.  I have a lot of great memories.  Like everything, there is a time to move on.  I told my son after 12 year old World Championships... NO MORE.  LOL.  There really isn't a use for it after the age of 12 for girl's or boy's.  Once you have played in multi-day events, a local isn't even a good warm-up or practice round.  Distances are too short.

To the OP's question, I would move my kid up if I could answer yes to these 3 questions
1.  Does he have a chance to win if I move him up?
2.  Can he play from the distances they are playing from?  Reaching Par 4's in two and not having to use Driver on a Par 3.
3.  Will he break 80.

For the first time ever I am not playing him into the next age group yet.  12 going on 13 is tough.  Have they reached puberty and physical maturity to play 6500 yards is a big issue at this point.  Even at 13 if he doesn't have the distance I am going to hold him out from playing until I know he can compete.  I am not going to throw him out there just because it is ranked.  I want him playing in that next age bracket knowing he can win.  He will have the distance and can probably shoot right around 80 from 6500 yards, but there is no reason to put him through that.  In 6-12 months he will have that distance just because of growth.


Great points HH.  Also, potential higher scores and higher HC may be mentally debillitating.  

What are your thoughts if IMG Jr World qualifier is at longer tees than what his current division plays from?  Play up, for tourney practice or, just practice outside of tourneys for qualifier?



26

#27 heavy_hitter

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 03:48 PM

 propredicr, on 25 January 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

 heavy_hitter, on 25 January 2018 - 02:25 PM, said:

 TimberBeast, on 25 January 2018 - 01:47 PM, said:

 heavy_hitter, on 25 January 2018 - 01:22 PM, said:

It is a tricky and delicate subject.  I understand why they do it the way they do it.  Doesn't mean I like it or am going to complain about it.  It is what it is.  Kind of like watching a particular program on tv.  If you don't like it then change the station.

With that said, there is a reason they do it they way they do.  It is easier to tell everyone know than to make exceptions which I agree with.

Oh yeah, I understand why they do it.  It would be tough to make exceptions especially across various tours across the country and world.  I thought the older age group would be a good transition for my daughter but probably best just to say we had fun with it while it lasted.

US Kids was a great experience for us.  I have a lot of great memories.  Like everything, there is a time to move on.  I told my son after 12 year old World Championships... NO MORE.  LOL.  There really isn't a use for it after the age of 12 for girl's or boy's.  Once you have played in multi-day events, a local isn't even a good warm-up or practice round.  Distances are too short.

To the OP's question, I would move my kid up if I could answer yes to these 3 questions
1.  Does he have a chance to win if I move him up?
2.  Can he play from the distances they are playing from?  Reaching Par 4's in two and not having to use Driver on a Par 3.
3.  Will he break 80.

For the first time ever I am not playing him into the next age group yet.  12 going on 13 is tough.  Have they reached puberty and physical maturity to play 6500 yards is a big issue at this point.  Even at 13 if he doesn't have the distance I am going to hold him out from playing until I know he can compete.  I am not going to throw him out there just because it is ranked.  I want him playing in that next age bracket knowing he can win.  He will have the distance and can probably shoot right around 80 from 6500 yards, but there is no reason to put him through that.  In 6-12 months he will have that distance just because of growth.


Great points HH.  Also, potential higher scores and higher HC may be mentally debillitating.  

What are your thoughts if IMG Jr World qualifier is at longer tees than what his current division plays from?  Play up, for tourney practice or, just practice outside of tourneys for qualifier?

Entirely a different ball of wax.

A qualifier is a qualifier.  You have to look at those as learning experiences.  When my daughter was 13/14 I played her in US Women's Open Qualifier.  Knew she wouldn't qualify for it, but it was a learning experience later on.  You have to stress that to them as well.  She found out that playing as a teenage girl that had been barely playing 2 years that the college and Professionals playing weren't that much better.  3 years later she qualified for the USGA Girl's Junior.  Same thing goes for the Optimist International Qualifiers.  Play them in any qualifier regardless.  If you do happen to qualify, you don't have to take the invite.

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#28 jollysammy

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 08:39 AM

Around here we have the Junior Tour of Northern California run by the NCGA.  There are 2 groups.  Championship flight and first flight.  No age grouping, Championship flight is for 4 and under handicaps, the rest play in first flight.  Boys championship fight plays from the blues, boys first flight and girls championship from the whites.   This would seem to be an answer for you.   If your child can play a 2 day tournament and manage to maintain a 4 and under handicap, they can play up so to speak.

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#29 Sean2

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 08:43 AM

I don't know if this answers your question, but my best friend's daughter is now on the LPGA Tour. She played a lot of local tournaments when she was much younger. As she got into her teens she was lapping the field, so she started playing with the boys. This was a good thing because the golf was more challenging for her.
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