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Best way to start the lower body on the downswing?


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#1 JayGord

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 03:23 PM

I started golfing in Oct of 2017. Most of my golf "training" has come from a variety of you tube videos/ random people I get paired with during a round. I decided I wanted to take the next step and take lessons as of October 2018. Unfortunately, I travel for work so I don't get to my lessons as often as i would like but that is a different problem.

I started taking lessons at a local Golftec.
Had another lesson today and I'm just getting frustrated.
It seems like the most glaring problem the instructor and I see is starting the lower body before the upper body on the down swing. We have tried to address this on 3 separate lessons now and I'm not getting better.
Instructor says my back swing is great, all numbers in the "target" average with tour pros they use for comparison.
In the down swing, I tend to turn my shoulders faster than my hips and finish with my weight in a more neutral position(even on both feet) or too much on the back foot.
my swing path is "okay" right now, typically dead on plane, not too much over the top but not enough inside out.
Instructor believes if I can get the lower body starting the downswing going toward the target properly it will bring my swing path right where we want to see it.

My question to you more experienced guys out there;

What training drills you find best to help this issue? -I feel like we keep doing the same 1 drill and that 1 isn't working well.

I can do these drills in my home (have a matt and net) or at the range so all training drill options are open

thanks ahead of time


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#2 juststeve

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 03:45 PM

Using both arms swing the club forward in the direction of the target from over your trial shoulder to over your lead shoulder brushing the turf on the way.  Merely allow your body to respond freely and you will end up balanced on your front foot.  Since you're new to the game, pick up a copy of Understanding The Golf Swing by Manuel de la Torre and follow his instructions to the exclusion of anything else.  There is still plenty of time for you to avoid the over-complication you will find elsewhere.

Steve

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#3 PoeKingShankspeare

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 03:47 PM

I'm not a golf coach, but I am a student of the game and in other sports I am involved in. Well, when I was involved in.....

Anyway, I took up golf about the same time you did after 8 years away and I had to get this sequencing down again... Here's what I did to get that feeling of my lower body starting first....

Mentally, I visualize the movement over and over. (if you have any martial arts experience, you would have done this exercise mentally. kinda like Imaging the kata or fight, only it's the golf swing this time) I play a video in my head starting the turn with the left leg turning, then the hips, then the torso, shoulders, arms, and the hands/club head.

Also, I would use the wall  - end of the hallway, get into the top of my back swing, lock the butt end of the club onto the corner of a wall and rotate my lower body felling the tension stretch of the left obliques. Making sure I have the right spine angle as if I'm about to start my downswing. There should be a video somewhere on youtube.. I think....

Again, I'm not a coach.....but I was in other sports and I learn from my students too.....

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#4 Switter

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 04:16 PM

See Chapter One: "The Pivot" by Tom Tomasello. Prolly best to watch Tomasellos Chapters 1 - 9 to learn & understand the basics. See link below.

http://www.goldismon...ers-1-9.142952/

Edited by Switter, 12 January 2018 - 04:18 PM.

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#5 RPantello

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 04:33 PM

make sure you are actually getting into/ turning into your right hip and not swaying. You mention that you averages were within the target tour pro average, however you can spin your hips on the backswing while straightening you right leg and achieve this "target". You can turn your shoulders on too flat a plane that will also create a fake hip turn. You right hip should move up and back and you should feel pressure in your right foot in three spots- the heel, the right ball of your foot and the left ball of your foot. If you are not feeling any sort of pressure, then you are probably swaying and creating fake hip turn. So you are probably now asking why am I talking about the back swing when you asked about starting the downswing with the hips first..... The reason being is it will be much, much easier to start the downswing with the hips if you have properly loaded them in the back swing. A proper load will allow you to stay centered over the ball, shallow the club and not require any compensations in order to get back to impact.  Are you able to post a video of you swing?


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#6 Saltire

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 04:33 PM

Take a 7-iron, swing the club back until parallel with the ground and pause. Now try hitting the ball 80-100 yards from this position. From here the only way you can make decent contact and achieve this distance is through proper sequencing. You will find this difficult at first but stick with it and you sequencing will improve.

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#7 SomedayScratch

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 04:36 PM

Honestly, try some happy gilmore step into it swings....

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#8 Psyber

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 04:49 PM

Stack and tilt is an option. I know...it's not in favor but it could really help you get the feel of weight forward.
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#9 JayGord

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 06:15 PM

View PostRPantello, on 12 January 2018 - 04:33 PM, said:

make sure you are actually getting into/ turning into your right hip and not swaying. You mention that you averages were within the target tour pro average, however you can spin your hips on the backswing while straightening you right leg and achieve this "target". You can turn your shoulders on too flat a plane that will also create a fake hip turn. You right hip should move up and back and you should feel pressure in your right foot in three spots- the heel, the right ball of your foot and the left ball of your foot. If you are not feeling any sort of pressure, then you are probably swaying and creating fake hip turn. So you are probably now asking why am I talking about the back swing when you asked about starting the downswing with the hips first..... The reason being is it will be much, much easier to start the downswing with the hips if you have properly loaded them in the back swing. A proper load will allow you to stay centered over the ball, shallow the club and not require any compensations in order to get back to impact.  Are you able to post a video of you swing?

Per my instructor, my back swing is great. I am trusting his analysis.

I might be able to post a swing video, have to figure out a way to rig my phone up in the proper position

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#10 JayGord

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 07:47 PM

View PostSwitter, on 12 January 2018 - 04:16 PM, said:

See Chapter One: "The Pivot" by Tom Tomasello. Prolly best to watch Tomasellos Chapters 1 - 9 to learn & understand the basics. See link below.

http://www.goldismon...ers-1-9.142952/

Thanks, will look into it


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#11 sheldonjhacker

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:18 PM

OP,
This is THE holy grail to the golf swing.  Please let me know when you arrive, cuz I am looking for the same thing.  :wave:

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#12 JamesBurg

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:18 PM

I don't know about drills, but:

One way to make it happen is to initiate your downswing by turning your right hip and knee toward the ball.

Edited by JamesBurg, 12 January 2018 - 08:21 PM.


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#13 IH82BOGEY

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 12:28 AM

I would bet that it is not that your hips are not "starting first", rather it is your hips have finished too early.  Take a quick 10 minutes and make yourself a homemade training aid. (similar to the golf in sync aid):  See Natalie Adams Smash Factor Golf Coaching youtube video: rotate your body like a pro through impact for correct golf swing release.  When you do this drill, you will find (between p6 and p7) you have nothing left to hit with as your arms and wrists are trapped.  You will have to recruit more pivot from somewhere to get to club through the ball and even more pivot to finish the swing.  Congrats, you will then feel the muscles you need to keep that pivot going from your legs, butt, core, whatever they want to call it these days.  The drill is designed to fix a flip but I have found does wonders for the whole pivot.  Transferring that acquired movement to the ball without the aid is the next hurdle.  You will need to resist the urge to "hit at" the ball.  An urge that is harder to overcome hitting into a net like at golftec.

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#14 argee1977

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 04:22 AM

Pause drills (just 1 second at the top, or more if you want), and lots of them, i hate them, i don't think anyone likes them, but if you practice this every week it'll improve your transition without doubt, unless you're doing them wrong!

If you want to get a training aid, then the orange whip / sklz gold will help with this one as well, i found since using the sklz prior to a round it does help me with this, sometimes too much!

Edited by argee1977, 13 January 2018 - 04:24 AM.


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#15 fried121

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 07:03 AM

The drill that has been most helpful to me is called the "bucket drill".  

In the bucket drill place a range bucket or equivalent item(soccer ball, volleyball, etc.) between your legs in your normal golf setup.  Go through a normal backswing, and on the downswing your sole goal should be to have the bucket fall from between your legs.  This drill is good because it will perfect your first move down, but also keep you from getting your lower body to far ahead.

Its something that gg, Monte, and many other pros recommend and it has done wonders for me!


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#16 alfriday

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 02:00 PM

https://www.youtube....AXReWUx4Cg&t=3s

https://www.youtube....1-fZ9zwN4g&t=1s


https://www.youtube....h?v=TcNiorpoFgE

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#17 Saltire

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 04:14 PM

View Postalfriday, on 13 January 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:


In what way would these drills encourage you to lead with the lower body? Don't get me wrong, I like the lead leg drill and find myself making good contact when using it. I just was never sure whether it was a drill worthwhile persevering with or not.

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#18 JayGord

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 04:37 PM

View Postalfriday, on 13 January 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:


I've been watching Shawns Videos since I started playing. Great videos just don't know why I can't break this habit

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#19 oz dee cee

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 05:21 PM

If you’re seeing a pro you trust and can communicate with, ask him/her for some tips. You’ll get 20 different drills here all without seeing your swing or problem. Grab another lesson or look for a new pro.

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#20 moehogan

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 05:25 PM

View PostJayGord, on 12 January 2018 - 03:23 PM, said:

I started golfing in Oct of 2017. Most of my golf "training" has come from a variety of you tube videos/ random people I get paired with during a round. I decided I wanted to take the next step and take lessons as of October 2018. Unfortunately, I travel for work so I don't get to my lessons as often as i would like but that is a different problem.

I started taking lessons at a local Golftec.
Had another lesson today and I'm just getting frustrated.
It seems like the most glaring problem the instructor and I see is starting the lower body before the upper body on the down swing. We have tried to address this on 3 separate lessons now and I'm not getting better.
Instructor says my back swing is great, all numbers in the "target" average with tour pros they use for comparison.
In the down swing, I tend to turn my shoulders faster than my hips and finish with my weight in a more neutral position(even on both feet) or too much on the back foot.
my swing path is "okay" right now, typically dead on plane, not too much over the top but not enough inside out.
Instructor believes if I can get the lower body starting the downswing going toward the target properly it will bring my swing path right where we want to see it.

My question to you more experienced guys out there;

What training drills you find best to help this issue? -I feel like we keep doing the same 1 drill and that 1 isn't working well.

I can do these drills in my home (have a matt and net) or at the range so all training drill options are open

thanks ahead of time

Assuming you're right handed ... in the DS, feel like you're sending your hips/pelvis to third base while aiming your shoulder girdle to first base. Upper/lower body separation is what you're after ... the torque created by the opposing forces will help create a powerful "snap" through impact.

DSX_factor_zps45ad83b4 (1).JPG


Edited by moehogan, 13 January 2018 - 05:32 PM.


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#21 buckeyefl

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 08:37 PM

View PostSaltire, on 12 January 2018 - 04:33 PM, said:

Take a 7-iron, swing the club back until parallel with the ground and pause. Now try hitting the ball 80-100 yards from this position. From here the only way you can make decent contact and achieve this distance is through proper sequencing. You will find this difficult at first but stick with it and you sequencing will improve.

That is simply not true.

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#22 xkilgorextroutx

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 11:12 PM

View Postargee1977, on 13 January 2018 - 04:22 AM, said:

Pause drills (just 1 second at the top, or more if you want), and lots of them, i hate them, i don't think anyone likes them, but if you practice this every week it'll improve your transition without doubt, unless you're doing them wrong!

If you want to get a training aid, then the orange whip / sklz gold will help with this one as well, i found since using the sklz prior to a round it does help me with this, sometimes too much!

Pause drills worked for me in lessons also. If the OP's backswing is good like Golftec says it is, he should be putting himself in a good position so starting from the ground up *should* help increase some distance & height.

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#23 thug the bunny

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 11:40 PM

View Postargee1977, on 13 January 2018 - 04:22 AM, said:

Pause drills (just 1 second at the top, or more if you want), and lots of them, i hate them, i don't think anyone likes them, but if you practice this every week it'll improve your transition without doubt, unless you're doing them wrong!

If you want to get a training aid, then the orange whip / sklz gold will help with this one as well, i found since using the sklz prior to a round it does help me with this, sometimes too much!

I have learned to use the pause not as a drill, but in play. When I was younger I didn't need it and got to a 6 hc. But now that I am older I guess I have gotten more 'twitchy', and now use it as a tool. It ensures that I am starting the DS with the right sequencing (bottom up). However, it is easy to say but not so easy to do. It requires patience and discipline to not lurch from the top as soon (or usually before) as you have completed the BS.
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#24 Conjohnson

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 12:01 AM

Bump, dump and turn. Over and over

Some find it useful to have the feeling of their knees "pushing" forward in the downswing.

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#25 thug the bunny

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 12:44 AM

View PostConjohnson, on 14 January 2018 - 12:01 AM, said:

Bump, dump and turn. Over and over

Some find it useful to have the feeling of their knees "pushing" forward in the downswing.

Yes that's it - a little knee push (I know WRXers hate the word 'slide') with a little hip turn and that translates up the torso to the shoulders which turn and lead the arms and finally near the bottom the wrists release (oh yeah, and keep rotating through after impact). Thank god after 20 yrs this all happens without my thinking and all I think about these days is face angle at impact.

Edited by thug the bunny, 14 January 2018 - 12:46 AM.

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#26 jane nair

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 04:47 AM

View Postjamxray, on 12 January 2018 - 03:47 PM, said:

I'm not a golf coach, but I am a student of the game and in other sports I am involved in. Well, when I was involved in.....

Anyway, I took up golf about the same time you did after 8 years away and I had to get this sequencing down again... Here's what I did to get that feeling of my lower body starting first....

Mentally, I visualize the movement over and over. (if you have any martial arts experience, you would have done this exercise mentally. kinda like Imaging the kata or fight, only it's the golf swing this time) I play a video in my head starting the turn with the left leg turning, then the hips, then the torso, shoulders, arms, and the hands/club head.

Also, I would use the wall  - end of the hallway, get into the top of my back swing, lock the butt end of the club onto the corner of a wall and rotate my lower body felling the tension stretch of the left obliques. Making sure I have the right spine angle as if I'm about to start my downswing. There should be a video somewhere on youtube.. I think....

Again, I'm not a coach.....but I was in other sports and I learn from my students too.....
well said.it will help and motivate us.

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#27 JayGord

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 11:13 PM

View Postoz dee cee, on 13 January 2018 - 05:21 PM, said:

If you’re seeing a pro you trust and can communicate with, ask him/her for some tips. You’ll get 20 different drills here all without seeing your swing or problem. Grab another lesson or look for a new pro.

Well, I've pre paid for x amount of lessons, so to to see them out first

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#28 JayGord

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 11:16 PM

Thanks everyone. hurt my back a little today doing house work but been reading and watching all the suggestions.

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