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Flat left wrist at the top, easier to shallow in transition?


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#1 Boomer3

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 02:54 PM

I have a bit of a cupped left wrist at the top and I struggle to shallow the club enough. I see some tour players like Oosthuizen and Rose have that cupped position and their left wrist flattens right away in transition, but that does not happen in my swing.

Would it be easier for me to just working on having a flat left wrist at the top in order to get shallower, rather than working on flattening it in transition?


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#2 SomedayScratch

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 03:42 PM

Do you have a weak grip?

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#3 Boomer3

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 03:54 PM

 SomedayScratch, on 11 January 2018 - 03:42 PM, said:

Do you have a weak grip?

Maybe neutral to semi weak. The right hand V points to between my right shoulder and head. My left hand V points to my chin. I can see 2 knuckles on my left hand.

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#4 SomedayScratch

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 04:01 PM

 Boomer3, on 11 January 2018 - 03:54 PM, said:

 SomedayScratch, on 11 January 2018 - 03:42 PM, said:

Do you have a weak grip?

Maybe neutral to semi weak. The right hand V points to between my right shoulder and head. My left hand V points to my chin. I can see 2 knuckles on my left hand.

V's on the right hand are arbitrary because a lot of the time it can seem weak or strong depending on your hand size and your grip size. But usually it is a decent way to tell how your grip is. I would strengthen your grip a bit and see if that helps.

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#5 spoonek9

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 04:03 PM

https://www.youtube....xUtlYbqE&t=605s

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#6 gators78

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 04:10 PM

Short answer yes. Check out Jordan, Rahm, Dustin, Justin Thomas, Spieth, Ruiz and Wolff of George Gankas that shallow it a bunch to name a few...weak grips that are way more bowed than cupped.

Guys like Justin, Louie and Freddie have a little more time in transition to get into a shallow position, but I'd let the experts chime in.
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#7 Saltire

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 04:56 PM

I'm finding this to be helpful in my quest for a shallower downswing:

https://www.andrewri...allow-the-shaft

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#8 Fort Worth Pro

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 05:10 PM

About 70% of guys on tour are cupped at the top.

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#9 Saltire

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 05:25 PM

 Fort Worth Pro, on 11 January 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

About 70% of guys on tour are cupped at the top.

True but these guys have lots of talent and an almost infinite amount of practice time. For the average golfer it’s surely easier to shallow from a flat or even slightly bowed position?

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#10 Hawkeye77

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 06:05 PM

 Saltire, on 11 January 2018 - 05:25 PM, said:

 Fort Worth Pro, on 11 January 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

About 70% of guys on tour are cupped at the top.

True but these guys have lots of talent and an almost infinite amount of practice time. For the average golfer it’s surely easier to shallow from a flat or even slightly bowed position?

Why do you say that? Nothing else enters in?


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#11 Fort Worth Pro

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 06:17 PM

View PostSaltire, on 11 January 2018 - 05:25 PM, said:

View PostFort Worth Pro, on 11 January 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

About 70% of guys on tour are cupped at the top.

True but these guys have lots of talent and an almost infinite amount of practice time. For the average golfer its surely easier to shallow from a flat or even slightly bowed position?

Not necessarily. Being slightly cupped gives you more range of motion to move to or towards bowed.

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#12 Fireballer

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 06:53 PM

View PostFort Worth Pro, on 11 January 2018 - 06:17 PM, said:

View PostSaltire, on 11 January 2018 - 05:25 PM, said:

View PostFort Worth Pro, on 11 January 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

About 70% of guys on tour are cupped at the top.

True but these guys have lots of talent and an almost infinite amount of practice time. For the average golfer its surely easier to shallow from a flat or even slightly bowed position?

Not necessarily. Being slightly cupped gives you more range of motion to move to or towards bowed.

Im far from and expert and find this interesting and have a few questions.

You said that 70% of top pros are cupped at the top.  So those guys flatten the wrist as they get to the ball?

The guys that have a flat wrist at the top just hold that position as they approach the ball?

So if you are cupped at the top, as long as you flatten the wrist and  dont maintain that cupped position into impact, you should be OK?

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#13 Fort Worth Pro

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 07:13 PM

View PostFireballer, on 11 January 2018 - 06:53 PM, said:

View PostFort Worth Pro, on 11 January 2018 - 06:17 PM, said:

View PostSaltire, on 11 January 2018 - 05:25 PM, said:

View PostFort Worth Pro, on 11 January 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

About 70% of guys on tour are cupped at the top.

True but these guys have lots of talent and an almost infinite amount of practice time. For the average golfer its surely easier to shallow from a flat or even slightly bowed position?

Not necessarily. Being slightly cupped gives you more range of motion to move to or towards bowed.

Im far from and expert and find this interesting and have a few questions.

You said that 70% of top pros are cupped at the top.  So those guys flatten the wrist as they get to the ball?

The guys that have a flat wrist at the top just hold that position as they approach the ball?

So if you are cupped at the top, as long as you flatten the wrist and  dont maintain that cupped position into impact, you should be OK?

The timing of it varies from player to player but they are flexing the wrist in the downswing and begin extending right before impact.

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#14 spoonek9

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 07:19 PM

People really need to learn the human anatomy!
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#15 Fort Worth Pro

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 07:23 PM

View Postspoonek9, on 11 January 2018 - 07:19 PM, said:

People really need to learn the human anatomy!

Educate us please.


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#16 bladestriker

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 09:16 PM

View Postspoonek9, on 11 January 2018 - 07:19 PM, said:

People really need to learn the human anatomy!
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#17 thug the bunny

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 09:32 PM

Wasn't that Hogan's anti left move, to go from slightly cupped at the top and then slightly bowed to start the DS?
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#18 gentles

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 10:22 PM

View Postthug the bunny, on 11 January 2018 - 09:32 PM, said:

Wasn't that Hogan's anti left move, to go from slightly cupped at the top and then slightly bowed to start the DS?

I won't able to find the study anwhere but I remember reading research that says a lot of great ball strikers do this. I think it has something to do with slowing down the rate of closure of the clubface...if the club face is closed on the way down, extending (or unflexing, moving into a cupped position) will result in the clubface closing at a slower rate, giving you a better change of a square strike.

The way I think about it is like taking a putting stroke where the putter face is square to the target line throughout the stroke...in the backswing your left wrist starts to bow a little to hold the face closed, and on the way back through it starts to extend to keep the face square to the target line. The chance of the delivering the putter face square is higher doing this compared to the opposite, where you're flipping the face closed at the last minute to square it up.

Interesting topic. To answer OPs question, from my experience it is easier to shallow the face with a stronger grip, and a square to shut face at the top, as I like to "pre-set" the left wrist early in the back swing and not worry about it (I use DJs backswing as my model. Too weak a grip or open a clubface means more work needed to get into the "shut" position part way down.

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#19 dap

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 12:10 AM

A lot of pros use a strong grip so they cup it a little at the top to maintain a "square face". This is where the clubface matches the left forearm. If you use a strong grip and have a flat to bowed wrist at the top then the clubface is going to be shut in relation to the forearm. There will be a tendency to miss left. The opposite will be true if you use a weak grip.

I prefer to look at the angle of the clubface in relation to the left forearm rather than look at flat or cupped wrists. I think this is more important. Most pros will have square face regardless whether they are cupped or flat but of course there will be exceptions. Dustin J uses a strong grip, bows his left wrist and the clubface is in a massively shut position but he's the number 1 player in the world so it just proves there are no absolute rules in golf.

I think a "square" clubface at the top just means minimum amount of wrist manipulation or other compensations are required to get a square face at impact.

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#20 QEight

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 05:54 AM

Seems like going from cupped to flat to bowed flattens the shaft by itself. On the other hand having a full wrist hinge (in left wrist) makes it difficult to bow it at the same time, i.e. you either have to lose some hinge or not bow the wrist.

I would say you have to think all four movements of your wrist, not just extension/flexion.

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#21 Sbrooks

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 06:02 AM

View PostFort Worth Pro, on 11 January 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

About 70% of guys on tour are cupped at the top.
that maybe true, but 97% of your players get into lead wrist flexion on the down stroke...
Flexed at the top with lead arm depth is CRUCIAL to ensure shallowing in transition

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#22 Sbrooks

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 06:05 AM

View PostBoomer3, on 11 January 2018 - 02:54 PM, said:

I have a bit of a cupped left wrist at the top and I struggle to shallow the club enough. I see some tour players like Oosthuizen and Rose have that cupped position and their left wrist flattens right away in transition, but that does not happen in my swing.

Would it be easier for me to just working on having a flat left wrist at the top in order to get shallower, rather than working on flattening it in transition?
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#23 gators78

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:43 AM

View PostFort Worth Pro, on 11 January 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

About 70% of guys on tour are cupped at the top.

Boatload of guys have strong grips and have extension at address...but at the top, 70%? Have to disagree there.
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#24 iteachgolf

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:51 AM

View Postgators78, on 12 January 2018 - 08:43 AM, said:

View PostFort Worth Pro, on 11 January 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

About 70% of guys on tour are cupped at the top.

Boatload of guys have strong grips and have extension at address...but at the top, 70%? Have to disagree there.

Hes basing that percentage on actual measured 3D data, hes not making it up out of thin air

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#25 kwin

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:52 AM

http://www.golfwrx.c...-bowed-or-flat/


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#26 gators78

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 09:05 AM

View Postiteachgolf, on 12 January 2018 - 08:51 AM, said:

View Postgators78, on 12 January 2018 - 08:43 AM, said:

View PostFort Worth Pro, on 11 January 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

About 70% of guys on tour are cupped at the top.

Boatload of guys have strong grips and have extension at address...but at the top, 70%? Have to disagree there.

He's basing that percentage on actual measured 3D data, he's not making it up out of thin air

Can someone then post a link?
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#27 Fort Worth Pro

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 09:05 AM

View Postgators78, on 12 January 2018 - 08:43 AM, said:

View PostFort Worth Pro, on 11 January 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

About 70% of guys on tour are cupped at the top.

Boatload of guys have strong grips and have extension at address...but at the top, 70%? Have to disagree there.

In the database of the facility I used to work at it was 72% and he classified extended as more than 5 degrees extended. He has the largest database of tour players there is. Now obviously it doesn't have everyone but it's a very large representation of players.

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#28 NikeGolferTX

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 12:33 PM

https://www.instagra...n-by=shkeengolf

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#29 dasams

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 07:30 PM

View PostBoomer3, on 11 January 2018 - 02:54 PM, said:

Would it be easier for me to just working on having a flat left wrist at the top in order to get shallower, rather than working on flattening it in transition?

Flattening your wrist won't shallow your shaft if you are OTT.  Not saying that you are but the point is that proper hip/shoulder rotation and getting your right elbow down to your right hip is a fundamental that great ball strikers share.  And great ball strikers shallow their shaft.

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#30 Grayback1973

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 01:45 PM

Bad players get steep in transition no matter what their left wrist condition is.Personally I think the wrists play very little part in shallowing from the top.It's a fundamentally athletic body motion combined with the right pressures and shifts that produce a shallower result.Bad players(like me)have a difficult time "getting around" on it.There's plenty of "down" but not enough "out".The perfect combination of both is a result of good athletic fundamental movement that hacks like myself have yet to experience.

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