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hands ahead of the club at impact


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#1 BobbleHead

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 06:19 PM

I did a Google search specifically for this site on this issue and came up with no results and I've always used wrx for my golf game so I come asking for help. Feel free to skip the story, I'm basically looking to use parts of my swing when I was younger and apply them to a more "modern" swing.

I remember 2 things about my old swing. 1) I kept my lead arm as straight as possible. This was especially important on the downswing because doing this forces you to hit the ball with your body instead of "muscling" it with your arms. 2) As you can guess by the title I still remember my hands feeling like they were ahead of the club/ball at impact.

Keeping my arm straight is easy but finding out how to get that old release has been a chore. The main problem I'm having is that with my swing 15 years ago I would put the ball insanely close to my toe line and bring my hands very far forward at address to compensate. My hands were probably 6-7 inches ahead of the ball to give you a visual. This would force me to keep my hands ahead of impact or I would obviously take a massive chunk.

I am wondering 1) should I try and recreate my older swing since I've only played 30 rounds in the last 10 years with a much more normal address. I used to be scratch before switching to casual  2) what drills/videos would you guys recommend to get that feeling of hands ahead of impact if I should not got back to my weird address.

Thanks for reading.


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#2 OakLawnGolfPro

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 11:56 PM

That thought of “muscling” with your arms, your arms do most of the work in the swing.  They swing faster than the body so I would be careful trying to take them out.  That leads to your second point, you want your hands ahead so I would focus on the correct hand and arm movements then work on the supporting movements from your body.  You’ll get where you wanna go much quicker.

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#3 BobbleHead

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:31 AM

View PostOakLawnGolfPro, on 10 January 2018 - 11:56 PM, said:

That thought of “muscling” with your arms, your arms do most of the work in the swing.  They swing faster than the body so I would be careful trying to take them out.  That leads to your second point, you want your hands ahead so I would focus on the correct hand and arm movements then work on the supporting movements from your body.  You’ll get where you wanna go much quicker.

I always thought it was the body leading the arms?

To look at an over exaggerated example, a home run hitter will have his belly pointed at 2nd base while the bat is pointed where his belly WAS at the start of the movement somewhere around 90 degrees. This is less obvious in golf because you actually have to aim so you cannot take crazy power swings. The Rory drive video posted 15 topics below this topic or any pro golfer for that matter has the body (leg drive, hip rotation and maybe a slightly flexed core) that is the force on the downswing while the arms lag behind the rest of the body. Am I way off base here? I always thought this was common knowledge?

Edited by BobbleHead, 11 January 2018 - 12:34 AM.


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#4 jslane57

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:41 AM

I suggest not attempting to recreate your old swing. It sounds like a huge band-aid to have the hands that far ahead at address. Yes, the body leads the swing, but not to the point that the arms don't do anything. Like the baseball player, yes the body leads the way, but lets face it, it does so to create fast arms. Speed creates power. I'd suggest a golf lesson to get your address position in check. And a little discussion about impact position with your pro wouldn't be bad either...

Edited by jslane57, 11 January 2018 - 12:43 AM.

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#5 BobbleHead

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 01:38 AM

Aye. Just got my first lesson in a long time. My instructor gave me a drill where he has me putting both my feet together with the left foot behind the right (I'm a lefty) which is forcing me to follow through with the wrists. I was making a big over the top move with blocked wrist movement and a divot always pointing to the right. It's a strange feeling having another moving part to my swing and it is hard to memorize where my hands should actually be. His drill made instant improvements but I am not hitting anything consistent and I am not getting my hands ahead of impact which is what I want.


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#6 juststeve

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:14 AM

In a good swing the hands will be ahead of the ball at impact but that is a result of good mechanics, not something you contrive to do deliberately.  I was taught to INTEND to return the entire club, grip shaft and head, to the position they occupied at address, at impact.  Notwithstanding that intention my whole club is never in the address position at impact.   The club head returns to or near to its address position, but owing to the speed in my arms my hands are forward of their address position, the left wrist is flat,  and the shaft is leaning forward.  All of these things are the result of swinging the club forward with my arms.  In other words the hands forward, flat left wrist and shaft lean come along for free.  The golf swing is a matter of motion, not positions.

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#7 NikeGolferTX

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:24 AM

May seem odd, but slower arms enable more shaft lean.

Squaring the club face with the body allows you to maintain angles and have a slower rate of closure: less shot dispersion.

Squaring the club face with the arms/hands will release your angles and increase the rate of closure: more shot dispersion.

Edited by NikeGolferTX, 11 January 2018 - 11:25 AM.


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#8 Petunia Sprinkle

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:50 AM

Hereís something you might be interested in regarding hands ahead at impact - http://www.dstgolf.c...f-golf-dst-golf

A strong grip inherently puts the hands further ahead than a weak grip at impact (impact with what being the question).

I donít view the body, much, as a power generator. I view it as something against which power can be generated by the swinging of the arms. Turning the body before swinging the arms in the downswing increases the torque between the lower body and upper body. That gives one more to swing against. Also, the turning of the body towards the target allows more room for the swing to accelerate before running out of torque. (I just made all that up, so some or all of it could be entirely wrong.)

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#9 juststeve

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:13 PM

View PostPetunia Sprinkle, on 11 January 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

Here's something you might be interested in regarding hands ahead at impact - http://www.dstgolf.c...f-golf-dst-golf

A strong grip inherently puts the hands further ahead than a weak grip at impact (impact with what being the question).

I don't view the body, much, as a power generator. I view it as something against which power can be generated by the swinging of the arms. Turning the body before swinging the arms in the downswing increases the torque between the lower body and upper body. That gives one more to swing against. Also, the turning of the body towards the target allows more room for the swing to accelerate before running out of torque. (I just made all that up, so some or all of it could be entirely wrong.)

I think of body motion as being necessary to keep the body out of the way of the arms so they can create speed.  My hands swing the club back and the body reacts by turning out of the way.  .  My arms swing the club at the target and my body reacts by clearing a path for the arms to swing.  At no time are the arms being moved by the body.

Steve

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#10 MPStrat

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 01:28 PM

View PostNikeGolferTX, on 11 January 2018 - 11:24 AM, said:

Squaring the club face with the body allows you to maintain angles and have a slower rate of closure: less shot dispersion.

Squaring the club face with the arms/hands will release your angles and increase the rate of closure: more shot dispersion.

Every great player that has been measured starts squaring the club face with the arms and hands well before impact.


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#11 ferrispgm

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 01:33 PM

View PostNikeGolferTX, on 11 January 2018 - 11:24 AM, said:

May seem odd, but slower arms enable more shaft lean.

Squaring the club face with the body allows you to maintain angles and have a slower rate of closure: less shot dispersion.

Squaring the club face with the arms/hands will release your angles and increase the rate of closure: more shot dispersion.


Slower arms is not the way to get the hands ahead of the ball at impact..........

To the OP.....play a ball forward in your stance with a short iron like a 9....hit 3/4 or halft shots and try to hit the ball low without sliding your body forward....will teach your arms to get forward and ahead of the ball.  Don't go crazy because you will start to slide ahead.
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#12 MPStrat

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 01:42 PM

View PostBobbleHead, on 11 January 2018 - 01:38 AM, said:

Aye. Just got my first lesson in a long time. My instructor gave me a drill where he has me putting both my feet together with the left foot behind the right (I'm a lefty) which is forcing me to follow through with the wrists. I was making a big over the top move with blocked wrist movement and a divot always pointing to the right. It's a strange feeling having another moving part to my swing and it is hard to memorize where my hands should actually be. His drill made instant improvements but I am not hitting anything consistent and I am not getting my hands ahead of impact which is what I want.

Getting the hands ahead is a result of a lot of things. You would have to post a swing to get any real help in accomplishing your goal. It's counterintuitive but the intention to pull the hands forward could be one of the reasons you're having to scoop it.

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#13 Golfbeat

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 01:58 PM

Most people cannot have forward shaft lean because their club face is open.
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#14 BobbleHead

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 05:46 AM

View PostPetunia Sprinkle, on 11 January 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

Here’s something you might be interested in regarding hands ahead at impact - http://www.dstgolf.c...f-golf-dst-golf

Holy. s***. This is exactly what I was doing!

I am reading all of this nodding my head up and down. My crazy swing I made myself put into words. Address mimics impact. Maybe I was putting my hands a little too far forward but 15 years is a long time to remember so it may not have been 6-8 inches. I'm telling everyone reading this, I used to crush the ball with what felt like half swings. I remember my yardages, hole in one with 8 iron 179 yard thin green so 165-170 carry. Hole in one 9 iron 156 yards landed one yard before the pin.

This is my holy grail here. Ty so much. Range tomorrow, I'll let you guys know how it went.

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#15 Millbrook

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 07:59 AM

Yes a great article from petunia.

In addition to the comments in there you may want to consider that to get forward shaft lean the hips have to be open ie. out of the way of the arms coming through. This is regardless of whether you are an arm swinger or pivot driven golfer.

One way to do this is in the backswing feel the pressure move to the heel area and outside of the trail foot and the inside of the lead foot. Initiate the downswing by moving the pressure to the outside of the lead foot and inside of the trail foot. I think Jack Nicklaus called it 'rolling the ankles'.

Others talk of the lead knee moving towards the target. It's the same thing but the feel in the feet works best for me.

My coach gave me this feel yesterday as a lead into getting the hands further forward in my next lesson.




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#16 North Texas

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:53 AM

View PostPetunia Sprinkle, on 11 January 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

Here's something you might be interested in regarding hands ahead at impact - http://www.dstgolf.c...f-golf-dst-golf

A strong grip inherently puts the hands further ahead than a weak grip at impact (impact with what being the question).

I don't view the body, much, as a power generator. I view it as something against which power can be generated by the swinging of the arms. Turning the body before swinging the arms in the downswing increases the torque between the lower body and upper body. That gives one more to swing against. Also, the turning of the body towards the target allows more room for the swing to accelerate before running out of torque. (I just made all that up, so some or all of it could be entirely wrong.)

That article you linked to is very interesting!

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#17 BobbleHead

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 06:26 PM

View PostMillbrook, on 12 January 2018 - 07:59 AM, said:

Yes a great article from petunia.

In addition to the comments in there you may want to consider that to get forward shaft lean the hips have to be open ie. out of the way of the arms coming through. This is regardless of whether you are an arm swinger or pivot driven golfer.

One way to do this is in the backswing feel the pressure move to the heel area and outside of the trail foot and the inside of the lead foot. Initiate the downswing by moving the pressure to the outside of the lead foot and inside of the trail foot. I think Jack Nicklaus called it 'rolling the ankles'.

Others talk of the lead knee moving towards the target. It's the same thing but the feel in the feet works best for me.

My coach gave me this feel yesterday as a lead into getting the hands further forward in my next lesson.





I'll check out the videos, thanks.

I hit 80 balls today with my 8 and PW.

Remember my constant miss was a over the top push. I hit exactly 2 balls out of 80 this way today and they were much slighter pushes. I'd say 70/80 of my shots were dead straight, as in no fade or draw which is exactly what I was doing 15 years ago. Of course some of those 70 shots were fat or thin. 78/80 shots were dead straight at target or varying degrees right of target but the trajectory was always  dead straight. I still must be blocking because even though I had noticeably more consistency and distance I only got that feeling of hands ahead of the ball a couple times even though I was putting my hands 2-4 inches ahead at address.

I messed a bit with my takeaway angle and found much better shots when holding the line longer which makes sense now that I am hitting right of target. Everything didn't pop into place yet but today was a huge improvement.

Edited by BobbleHead, 12 January 2018 - 06:28 PM.


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