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Noticed something "I" thought was insane


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#1 mdhacker123

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 03:31 PM

So ive always said golf instructors are like mechanics, most are not going to fix your problem, you will over pay and in the end you will end up going elsewhere. however, once you find one that works stick with him/her. reading through the best teachers(golf digest) i noticed the insane rates some of these teachers charge. i believe the lowest one was $150 hr, quite a few in the $175-$200 range and a large portion $500 plus and some even going over $1000 plus, to the highest david pelz for the day $20,000(wth). to me that is insane and a complete waste, again my own opinion but considering in the last 25 yrs the average handicap has dropped a big whooping 2 strokes. And is that from the instruction or from the technology in equipment, balls, yardages and a lot of other tools.

now im not saying boycott golf instruction but lets use common sense, unless your loaded and money doesnt mean much to you. but these guys arent doctors(self titled swing doctors doesnt count), they arent saving lives or curing diseases(yips doesnt count either) and find it unreasonable to request to be paid that amount of money, but hey if people are paying them who is the idiot(not in a mean way). ive been lucky enough to click with an instructor who has helped me a small amount in my game and it cost me a fraction (several lessons for under $200). i just find it mind boggling that someone would pay $500 plus an hour to someone which stats and history shows will most likely not improve your game and most likely you will be sneaking another instructor within the same year.

just a random post after seeing the hourly rates posted next to them. curious on others opinions

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#2 augustgolf

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 03:38 PM

Free enterprise

When I was doing a great amount of teaching, I typically got more than any of the head professionals at the clubs in my area, and I was not "on staff" at a course.

If you provide results, you usually get what you ask.

I also had a policy that: if, after the first 1 hour lesson, that you didn't feel that what WE had decided to work on TOGETHER was going to be right, you didn't have to pay anything.

Of course, I wasn't one of the lean on the golf club types, saying the same thing to each and every person wanting a lesson either.

If you have/had a reputation for being able to improve the student, and price is agreed upon up front, I say charge/pay whatever you feel is worth the time and effort.

(BTW, I was always the highest priced instructor for private lessons, but also contributed much time and effort to junior golf and adult education programs where there was little to no money exchanged, in an effort to get more players into the game).

I understood what my experience and ability to communicate necessary thoughts/actions was worth in my market, and guaranteed results.

Can't really get much fairer than that, no matter what the price, IMHO.....YMMV
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#3 golfgirlrobin

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 03:46 PM

They call it capitalism.  It works pretty well.  

Can you learn as much from a $40 lesson as a $1000?  Probably.  If I had the money, would I have more fun spending the day with Pelz?  Yep.
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#4 augustgolf

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 03:47 PM

View Postgolfgirlrobin, on 07 January 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

They call it capitalism.  It works pretty well.  

Can you learn as much from a $40 lesson as a $1000?  Probably.  If I had the money, would I have more fun spending the day with Pelz?  Yep.

Especially DavePelz4
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#5 howellhandmade

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 04:22 PM

If you want it and can afford it . . . not seeing a victim here. $150/hour isn't far off the hourly rate for many skilled trades (electrician, plumber) and you have to consider that in many cases the rate is set by the facility and the instructor gets a percentage. The higher-end facilities, especially resorts, tend to have higher overhead, attract a more affluent customer, and select instructors that, one way or another, hold up their end. If you want a $40 golf lesson you can probably find it.


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#6 Hawkeye77

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 04:33 PM

View Postaugustgolf, on 07 January 2018 - 03:47 PM, said:

View Postgolfgirlrobin, on 07 January 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

They call it capitalism.  It works pretty well.  

Can you learn as much from a $40 lesson as a $1000?  Probably.  If I had the money, would I have more fun spending the day with Pelz?  Yep.

Especially DavePelz4

He's schooled me for a lot less than the $20,000 for the mad scientist Dave Pelz!

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#7 BigSky59

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 04:37 PM

View Postmdhacker123, on 07 January 2018 - 03:31 PM, said:

considering in the last 25 yrs the average handicap has dropped a big whooping 2 strokes. And is that from the instruction or from the technology in equipment, balls, yardages and a lot of other tools.

just a random post after seeing the hourly rates posted next to them. curious on others opinions

If we want to be blunt and brutally honest with ourselves, I believe "we" as a golfing population have only seen an improvement that small because the game is very hard, and the vast majority of golfers don't know how to practice effectively/efficiently (or maybe don't practice at all).  We're never going to see an average handicap improvement of 8 strokes.  That's not possible, the game is too difficult.

Besides within that average taken from an enormous pool of golfers, you have guys that refuse to practice, guys that will switch around between 12 different instructors while bashing every one of them, guys who only play about 5-15 rounds a year and just plain suck, and guys that do put the time in practicing but just beat balls and don't really know what they're doing. With these guys getting worse every year, a 2 stroke drop is pretty good I'd say...

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#8 Medic

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 05:08 PM

Years ago I was taking my wife for granted. And we were having issues. So off we went to a marriage counselor. After only a couple of sessions I realized I needed to change and even though the guy wanted us to keep coming he didn't like it when I pointed something out to him.
"You have no real reason to fix our marriage considering that if you do we will stop coming."

So how does this relate?

I went to a pro who was determined to change everything about my swing. He wanted me to grip it differently, take a different position on the ball and start hitting a power fade. Nothing I was doing was right according to him. And he started talking about how many lessons I would need in order to get my swing all straightened out. I saw him in much the same light as the guy above - he wasn't as motivated to help me in my game as he was to keep me coming back for more.

Thankfully I found another pro who liked taking whatever you are doing and dialing it in. He worked on fitness, better contact and consistency. Thanks to Mike my handicap dropped and stabilized and I enjoyed the game more. I only took 4 lessons with him and, while I could have definitely taken more, I didn't have the time and we were moving away.

My point is simple. Find a pro motivated in the idea of helping you and your game. Someone you are comfortable with. Someone who isn't setting up monthly payments for your lessons. You'll benefit in the end and if realistic goals are established and accomplished you'll enjoy the whole experience more.

BTW, Amy and I are still going strong at 30 years. Like I said I was a real immature jerk. Thankfully I saw the light of how lucky I was (and am) and decided that I didn't need a swing coach on that one to get things on track. She beat me today in match play (thanks Robin - stupid new driver!) and we are making plans to play next weekend. : )
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#9 Santiago Golf

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 05:15 PM

Pelz coaches a bunch of tour pros. The price makes sure he has time to coach tour pros and have sone free time. Ive seen some pros who charge $50-100 an hour and then $250 for a playing lesson plus the green fee because they dont wanna be bother with it
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#10 MtlJeff

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 05:44 PM

There were also coaches 25 years ago though, so if handicaps have dropped 2 strokes over that span (which i believe is accurate) than maybe coaches and instruction are getting better too.

I agree with others who have said 150$ a lesson is not that crazy for an hour's work. Heck you get a plummer in your house to change a knob or change fastening on a pipe and it'll run you 200$. I think if a pro is going to point out a couple of important things with your swing, and give you helpful things to work on, 150$ is money very well spent.

Now, coaches who charge thousands? As others have said it's capitalism, if they can get the money than great for them. But you are probably dumb for spending it unless money ain't a thing for you. Because is that coach 50x better than another coach? Probably not.

But capitalism has several flaws like that. CEO's are typically not 50X smarter than their top executives, but they may make that much more in salary and bonuses. Consumers/customers generally tolerate this because we don't always value things rationally. We overvalue the "top guy" when usually the "near top guy" is a much better deal and truthfully may know just as much.

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#11 mo_golf_joe

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 06:06 PM

View PostMedic, on 07 January 2018 - 05:08 PM, said:

Years ago I was taking my wife for granted. And we were having issues. So off we went to a marriage counselor. After only a couple of sessions I realized I needed to change and even though the guy wanted us to keep coming he didn't like it when I pointed something out to him.
"You have no real reason to fix our marriage considering that if you do we will stop coming."

So how does this relate?

I went to a pro who was determined to change everything about my swing. He wanted me to grip it differently, take a different position on the ball and start hitting a power fade. Nothing I was doing was right according to him. And he started talking about how many lessons I would need in order to get my swing all straightened out. I saw him in much the same light as the guy above - he wasn't as motivated to help me in my game as he was to keep me coming back for more.

Thankfully I found another pro who liked taking whatever you are doing and dialing it in. He worked on fitness, better contact and consistency. Thanks to Mike my handicap dropped and stabilized and I enjoyed the game more. I only took 4 lessons with him and, while I could have definitely taken more, I didn't have the time and we were moving away.

My point is simple. Find a pro motivated in the idea of helping you and your game. Someone you are comfortable with. Someone who isn't setting up monthly payments for your lessons. You'll benefit in the end and if realistic goals are established and accomplished you'll enjoy the whole experience more.

BTW, Amy and I are still going strong at 30 years. Like I said I was a real immature jerk. Thankfully I saw the light of how lucky I was (and am) and decided that I didn't need a swing coach on that one to get things on track. She beat me today in match play (thanks Robin - stupid new driver!) and we are making plans to play next weekend. : )
Sometimes you need a little help. Other times you will need to figure the way on your own.


Wow! So much wisdom in this post. Congratulations and cheers to more success on and off the course. :)
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#12 SBH9458

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 06:33 PM

View PostMedic, on 07 January 2018 - 05:08 PM, said:

Years ago I was taking my wife for granted. And we were having issues. So off we went to a marriage counselor. After only a couple of sessions I realized I needed to change and even though the guy wanted us to keep coming he didn't like it when I pointed something out to him.
"You have no real reason to fix our marriage considering that if you do we will stop coming."

So how does this relate?

I went to a pro who was determined to change everything about my swing. He wanted me to grip it differently, take a different position on the ball and start hitting a power fade. Nothing I was doing was right according to him. And he started talking about how many lessons I would need in order to get my swing all straightened out. I saw him in much the same light as the guy above - he wasn't as motivated to help me in my game as he was to keep me coming back for more.

Thankfully I found another pro who liked taking whatever you are doing and dialing it in. He worked on fitness, better contact and consistency. Thanks to Mike my handicap dropped and stabilized and I enjoyed the game more. I only took 4 lessons with him and, while I could have definitely taken more, I didn't have the time and we were moving away.

My point is simple. Find a pro motivated in the idea of helping you and your game. Someone you are comfortable with. Someone who isn't setting up monthly payments for your lessons. You'll benefit in the end and if realistic goals are established and accomplished you'll enjoy the whole experience more.

BTW, Amy and I are still going strong at 30 years. Like I said I was a real immature jerk. Thankfully I saw the light of how lucky I was (and am) and decided that I didn't need a swing coach on that one to get things on track. She beat me today in match play (thanks Robin - stupid new driver!) and we are making plans to play next weekend. : )
Sometimes you need a little help. Other times you will need to figure the way on your own.


Well said!!!

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#13 gatorMD

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 08:39 PM

View PostMedic, on 07 January 2018 - 05:08 PM, said:

Years ago I was taking my wife for granted. And we were having issues. So off we went to a marriage counselor. After only a couple of sessions I realized I needed to change and even though the guy wanted us to keep coming he didn't like it when I pointed something out to him.
"You have no real reason to fix our marriage considering that if you do we will stop coming."

So how does this relate?

I went to a pro who was determined to change everything about my swing. He wanted me to grip it differently, take a different position on the ball and start hitting a power fade. Nothing I was doing was right according to him. And he started talking about how many lessons I would need in order to get my swing all straightened out. I saw him in much the same light as the guy above - he wasn't as motivated to help me in my game as he was to keep me coming back for more.

Thankfully I found another pro who liked taking whatever you are doing and dialing it in. He worked on fitness, better contact and consistency. Thanks to Mike my handicap dropped and stabilized and I enjoyed the game more. I only took 4 lessons with him and, while I could have definitely taken more, I didn't have the time and we were moving away.

My point is simple. Find a pro motivated in the idea of helping you and your game. Someone you are comfortable with. Someone who isn't setting up monthly payments for your lessons. You'll benefit in the end and if realistic goals are established and accomplished you'll enjoy the whole experience more.

BTW, Amy and I are still going strong at 30 years. Like I said I was a real immature jerk. Thankfully I saw the light of how lucky I was (and am) and decided that I didn't need a swing coach on that one to get things on track. She beat me today in match play (thanks Robin - stupid new driver!) and we are making plans to play next weekend. : )
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#14 Petunia Sprinkle

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 09:05 PM

If you’re playing golf for a hobby, I don’t understand why you wouldn’t want to teach yourself. One could argue, though, if you’re reading stuff and watching videos, you’re not really teaching yourself. I suppose it’s next to impossible to have that “I just found a guitar in the jungle” experience with golf (more likely to kill supper with it).

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#15 HatsForBats

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 08:24 AM

View PostPetunia Sprinkle, on 07 January 2018 - 09:05 PM, said:

I suppose it's next to impossible to have that "I just found a guitar in the jungle" experience with golf (more likely to kill supper with it).

Huh? Found a guitar in the jungle experience?


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#16 Conrad1953

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 09:45 AM

View PostHatsForBats, on 08 January 2018 - 08:24 AM, said:

View PostPetunia Sprinkle, on 07 January 2018 - 09:05 PM, said:

I suppose it's next to impossible to have that "I just found a guitar in the jungle" experience with golf (more likely to kill supper with it).

Huh? Found a guitar in the jungle experience?

Yes. The jungle is a great place to go guitar hunting.

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#17 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 09:59 AM

I feel really fortunate in that I’ve never paid for a lesson.  But then, I’ve also never had an official lesson either.

I’ve been extremely lucky in the fact that I’ve actually played countless rounds with all the local guys who give lessons and most are familiar enough with my swing and game that if I ask them a quick question they usually can provide an answer (and although I don’t pay for those tips, I take care of them in different ways). I can’t imagine paying those kind of fees, but it really is a case “to each his own”.
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#18 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 10:02 AM

View Postaugustgolf, on 07 January 2018 - 03:47 PM, said:

View Postgolfgirlrobin, on 07 January 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

They call it capitalism.  It works pretty well.  

Can you learn as much from a $40 lesson as a $1000?  Probably.  If I had the money, would I have more fun spending the day with Pelz?  Yep.

Especially DavePelz4


View PostHawkeye77, on 07 January 2018 - 04:33 PM, said:

View Postaugustgolf, on 07 January 2018 - 03:47 PM, said:

View Postgolfgirlrobin, on 07 January 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

They call it capitalism.  It works pretty well.  

Can you learn as much from a $40 lesson as a $1000?  Probably.  If I had the money, would I have more fun spending the day with Pelz?  Yep.

Especially DavePelz4

He's schooled me for a lot less than the $20,000 for the mad scientist Dave Pelz!

A day with Dave Pelz.  $20,000.  A day with DavePelz4:   Priceless!!  (Although he claimed we laughed at him.......but I’m sure it was no more than quiet giggling)����
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#19 Petunia Sprinkle

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 10:31 AM

View PostHatsForBats, on 08 January 2018 - 08:24 AM, said:

View PostPetunia Sprinkle, on 07 January 2018 - 09:05 PM, said:

I suppose it's next to impossible to have that "I just found a guitar in the jungle" experience with golf (more likely to kill supper with it).

Huh? Found a guitar in the jungle experience?

It refers to a 20th century myth of wondrous virtuosi from a primitive tribe who found a guitar in the jungle, one day. Completely isolated from civilization, they were left to their own devices in learning how to play the instrument.

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#20 Sean2

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 11:49 AM

When he was alive, Manuel de la Torre was perennially one of the top instructors. A few years ago GD had a chart of the top instructors and their rates. Surrounded by all the $500/hr $10,000 dollar a day instructors there was Manny: $80/hr. lol

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#21 wkuo3

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 12:10 PM

Many of the foreign auto charges over $200 per hour for labor, often times many charges over $300 per hour of the "book valued hour" to change oil and filter.
I don't think a top 100 rated golf instructor charges $300 / hr. is out of sight.  A thousand ?  Well, if a golfer needs that little extra insight instruction to get them a win on the Tour.... that will be well worth the fee, don;t you think ?

A hacker like myself current;y hanging around 10.2 is not going to benefit a lot from those lessons .  Will take many of the $2 Nassau to pay for the lesson.

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#22 davep043

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 12:25 PM

View Postwkuo3, on 08 January 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

I don't think a top 100 rated golf instructor charges $300 / hr. is out of sight.  A thousand ?  Well, if a golfer needs that little extra insight instruction to get them a win on the Tour.... that will be well worth the fee, don;t you think ?

A hacker like myself current;y hanging around 10.2 is not going to benefit a lot from those lessons .  Will take many of the $2 Nassau to pay for the lesson.
As with many things, a higher price tag doesn't guarantee higher quality.  To some extent, marketing and image plays a huge part in the rates that these instructors can command.  Hank Haney became famous for working with Tiger, but didn't really seem to do a lot for the guys on his TV show.  He's still getting top dollar for his time.  I'd bet Sean Foley's price structure went up quite a bit, after working with Tiger.  He's not a better teacher now, he's just more famous.  Dave Pelz has done a lot of great research in short game stuff (although he exaggerates its importance in the overall game of golf), but its his work with Mickelson that has made him most famous, and made his time worth so much.

Another side of this, there are many people who don't want to be seen using a bargain-basement product, they want other people to see them as having the best.  They'd rather brag to their buddies that they had an hour with David Leadbetter, even if it didn't help their game, than to say they had an hour with a small-town club pro that actually helped them play better.

All that said, a teacher's time is worth exactly what someone else will pay for it.  If these guys can get the big bucks, more power to them.

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#23 Sean2

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 12:28 PM

You can get a great bottle of wine for $400...you can also get one for $20. :-)
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#24 Roody

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 12:32 PM

I had a guy I used to work with whom I thought was great. Then he retired. Since then I haven't been able to find someone I am happy with. I tried Golftec for a bit, but he seems more interested in giving me as little information as possible per session so he can extend the lessons, and use up my pre-paid packages so I have to buy more.

In short, I think if you find the right swing coach, the value is there. If you find the wrong guy, it's a waste of money.

Edited by Roody, 08 January 2018 - 12:32 PM.

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#25 moonshine

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 12:39 PM

I see Andrew Rice and he is worth every penny. PM me OP if you are open to true insight.

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#26 nix

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 02:28 PM

so you're saying that very few teachers actually can truly help you and that there are a select few teachers who charge more than others.

Seems that your gripe at the 2nd part proves the 1st part of your post to be true. Economics in action.

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#27 oikos1

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 12:42 AM

View PostPetunia Sprinkle, on 08 January 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

View PostHatsForBats, on 08 January 2018 - 08:24 AM, said:

View PostPetunia Sprinkle, on 07 January 2018 - 09:05 PM, said:

I suppose it's next to impossible to have that "I just found a guitar in the jungle" experience with golf (more likely to kill supper with it).

Huh? Found a guitar in the jungle experience?

It refers to a 20th century myth of wondrous virtuosi from a primitive tribe who found a guitar in the jungle, one day. Completely isolated from civilization, they were left to their own devices in learning how to play the instrument.
I love myths.  Tell me another...

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#28 JerseyBoy

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 11:35 AM

View PostPetunia Sprinkle, on 08 January 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

View PostHatsForBats, on 08 January 2018 - 08:24 AM, said:

View PostPetunia Sprinkle, on 07 January 2018 - 09:05 PM, said:

I suppose it's next to impossible to have that "I just found a guitar in the jungle" experience with golf (more likely to kill supper with it).

Huh? Found a guitar in the jungle experience?

It refers to a 20th century myth of wondrous virtuosi from a primitive tribe who found a guitar in the jungle, one day. Completely isolated from civilization, they were left to their own devices in learning how to play the instrument.

Did they have Youtube? Because really, that's all you need.

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#29 JellyPig

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 12:14 PM

View PostPetunia Sprinkle, on 08 January 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

It refers to a 20th century myth of wondrous virtuosi from a primitive tribe who found a guitar in the jungle, one day. Completely isolated from civilization, they were left to their own devices in learning how to play the instrument.



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#30 Mulligan26

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 07:01 PM

I charge 60 bucks an hour. A lot of my lessons are set up and alignment related. Easy easy stuff.

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