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Square Strike Wedge


70 replies to this topic

#31 Swisstrader98

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 01:59 PM

View Postthe bishop, on 07 January 2018 - 01:08 PM, said:

View Postmatt062286, on 07 January 2018 - 11:53 AM, said:

Love how this wedge features a "ACS 2 Low Friction Anti-Chunk Slide Ramp Sole with No-Dig Leading Edge"

Love this guy too:

Posted Image

Posted Image
Ben Wright says this guy's moobs are getting in the way of his swing.

Dang! Forgot that line!! Sooo funny and I believe he lost his job as a result


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#32 Swisstrader98

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 02:02 PM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 07 January 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

View PostSwisstrader98, on 07 January 2018 - 10:39 AM, said:

My miss with my chips is a rather nasty skull scampering like a rat clear across the green. If this thing could fix that, I‚€™d swallow my pride and be first on line.

The one thing keeping me from lowering my handicap in a significant way

1. Try either a vokey L or a PM grind. The leading edge sits flush to the ground. There is literally no metal to skull the ball with.

2. Keep your lower body still. The screaming skull is when your lower body outraces your upper body. This creates a hole underneath your right shoulder (your hip isn't there to hold
It up). R shoulder drops and the bottom edge of the wedge hits the ball. Have a swing thought of literally immobilizing your hips and legs (you will never actually do that, but it will feel like it).

3. Stop moving the ball backwards in your stance. Skulls are not an impact issue. They are a where your hitting it on the club issue. You can fix fats and dips by moving the ball back but not skulls. A skull is a shank that happens due to a vertical miss instead of a horizontal miss (a shank is off the hosel, a skull is off
The leading edge).

IMO of course.

That was very good. Thanks!

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#33 Gary Gutful

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 03:11 PM

View Post95124hacker, on 07 January 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

View PostTheLarch, on 06 January 2018 - 06:18 PM, said:

Been watching the Sentry Championship from Hawaii the past couple days, and have been reminded by whoever this person is every ten to fifteen minutes that if you have a problem "chunking it out" that you might want to try the Square Strike Wedge.  Not sure what "chunking it out" is exactly, but I think it's akin to chunking it up and/or chunking it down.  I haven't seen anyone playing yesterday or today "chunk it out" so I believe everyone at Kapalua is using the Square Strike Wedge, the XG7 Driver, the C3I Wedge, and the Medicus Putter with front wheel drive.  Anyone know where I can get a dozen Kick X balls?

Lol. I would love someone here to do a head to head shootout with the gimmick clubs vs traditional clubs. Would Crossfield or Shiels do it?
MGS did a test on all infomercial wedges.
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#34 hybrid25

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 03:16 PM

It will probably sell quite well to the people who are looking for an easy fix to their golfing problems. Man could they have picked and uglier green color? It looks like something from the Department Store.

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#35 dmeeksDC

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 03:44 PM

View PostSwisstrader98, on 07 January 2018 - 02:02 PM, said:

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 07 January 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

View PostSwisstrader98, on 07 January 2018 - 10:39 AM, said:

My miss with my chips is a rather nasty skull scampering like a rat clear across the green. If this thing could fix that, I’d swallow my pride and be first on line.

The one thing keeping me from lowering my handicap in a significant way

1. Try either a vokey L or a PM grind. The leading edge sits flush to the ground. There is literally no metal to skull the ball with.

2. Keep your lower body still. The screaming skull is when your lower body outraces your upper body. This creates a hole underneath your right shoulder (your hip isn't there to hold
It up). R shoulder drops and the bottom edge of the wedge hits the ball. Have a swing thought of literally immobilizing your hips and legs (you will never actually do that, but it will feel like it).

3. Stop moving the ball backwards in your stance. Skulls are not an impact issue. They are a where your hitting it on the club issue. You can fix fats and dips by moving the ball back but not skulls. A skull is a shank that happens due to a vertical miss instead of a horizontal miss (a shank is off the hosel, a skull is off
The leading edge).

IMO of course.

That was very good. Thanks!

Nothing I like more on a Sunday than NFL playoffs and a little Pinestreetgolf wedge talk! Always goof stuff.

Another thought along those lines I have with my lower body is to set up 65-35 weight favoring my lead foot (left side for righthander). And my thought is to keep that weight distribution and let the club swing. Don't actually do it but it helps to keep that weignt from moving around too much. I have learned setup is everything and if you get it right and don't move all over the place, pitches and touch wedge shots become a lot cleaner and easier. I think the key to these shots is to take things out of your swing and make them simpler.

Ping G400 9 degrees, Ping Tour stiff shaft, 65 grams
Callaway XHot2 Pro 3 wood, 15 degrees, Aldila Tour Green stiff shaft
Callaway XHot2 Pro 5 wood, 17 degrees, Aldila Tour Blue stiff shaft
Titleist 816 H1 hybrid, 19 degree set to 20, Diamana Blue 60S shaft

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Mizuno S5 50-degree gap wedge, Nippon 1150 stiff shaft
Callaway Mack Daddy 2 54-degree wedge, S grind, DG wedge shaft
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Edel Rogue putter (thick blade), 34 inch, 71 degree lie, 2 degrees loft, 100-gram round Pure grip
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#36 Silicon Valley Dale

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 04:17 PM

View PostSwisstrader98, on 07 January 2018 - 12:35 PM, said:

View Post95124hacker, on 07 January 2018 - 12:11 PM, said:

View Postmatt062286, on 07 January 2018 - 11:53 AM, said:

Love how this wedge features a "ACS 2 Low Friction Anti-Chunk Slide Ramp Sole with No-Dig Leading Edge"

Love this guy too:

Posted Image

Posted Image

I seem to be stuck playing with guys like this often...  proper technique can be learned in 15 minutes.  Lead with the handle, don't flip with the wrists!

I hear ya, but as a guy who can drive it pretty straight and long, hit more than my fair share of GIR and a decent putter, I still struggle w what appears to be the very simple chip shot. Lessons, 100 YouTube videos, practicing for hours and still s bit of a struggle. Pain!!

My issue, and I'm a fairly good chipper when I get this part right, is fully committing to the shot. If I decelarate it's all over. If I commit to it I rarely mishits it. If I don't commit it might go 4 feet. The very definition of a chunk. I need a golf shrink. Roy Mac, any recommends? I'll take R.R. If she's available.

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#37 Silicon Valley Dale

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 04:25 PM

View Posthybrid25, on 07 January 2018 - 03:16 PM, said:

It will probably sell quite well to the people who are looking for an easy fix to their golfing problems. Man could they have picked and uglier green color? It looks like something from the Department Store.

But!!!! It would match my favorite Walter Hagen golf shirt exactly. It's the one I wear every time I want to play well, so I  wear it most every round. It's my "Tiger's Red". I never play well but if I ever do, I think it'll be in that shirt.

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#38 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 06:39 PM

View PostdmeeksDC, on 07 January 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

Nothing I like more on a Sunday than NFL playoffs and a little Pinestreetgolf wedge talk! Always goof stuff.

Another thought along those lines I have with my lower body is to set up 65-35 weight favoring my lead foot (left side for righthander). And my thought is to keep that weight distribution and let the club swing. Don't actually do it but it helps to keep that weignt from moving around too much. I have learned setup is everything and if you get it right and don't move all over the place, pitches and touch wedge shots become a lot cleaner and easier. I think the key to these shots is to take things out of your swing and make them simpler.

Another good trick is to flare your back foot away from the target.  This immobilizes the rear leg pretty effectively and stops the right-knee kick-in which is the cause of 80% of the chilli dips.  Weight left does the same thing, its just about which one fools your brain the best.

View PostSilicon Valley Dale, on 07 January 2018 - 04:17 PM, said:

My issue, and I'm a fairly good chipper when I get this part right, is fully committing to the shot. If I decelarate it's all over. If I commit to it I rarely mishits it. If I don't commit it might go 4 feet. The very definition of a chunk. I need a golf shrink. Roy Mac, any recommends? I'll take R.R. If she's available.

Committing to the shot is kinda nonsense though.  You only know after you've missed.  Its circular.  "Oh I missed... must not have committed".  You have a swing flaw that needs to be fixed.  I'm not trying to call you out, but the short game isn't mystic yoga.  Its a learned skill.  If you have poor technique you will miss no matter how committed you are.  Over time, the importance of "level of commitment" to shots is dwarfed by how important your technique is.

This irks me, so forgive the response.  A whole lot of people say these things.

"Always accelerate" isn't true, and in fact it is false for chip shots.  Like almost everything in golf, it is shot dependent and the vast majority of tour players are just starting to decel at impact with their putter and low running short game shots.  The idea that you should always accelerate through the ball in the short game is harmful.  If you strike ball-first (or where-ever your intended strike is) at the correct speed while creating correct loft for the shot you are hitting you will hit a good shot.  The ball has no idea if you are accelerating or decelerating.  And in chip shots, accelerating is almost always bad and makes the shot much harder.

A chip shot is a reverse flop shot.  In a flop shot, you add loft to the club, aim body left but clubface straight, and swing faster than the distance.  In a chip shot, you deloft the club, aim body right but clubface straight, and swing slower than distance (i.e. you don't accelerate).  Its the mirror of a flop.

In other threads, I posted that there are three ways to create loft to hit a flop - attack angle, opening up clubface, dropping hande.  You can't raise the handle higher, so that's out for chipping, which leaves two basic chipping techniques (and every single good chipper, at their heart, uses one or the other).  The trouble comes when you take elements from both - you get handsy./wristy in a chipping motion that delofts by attack angle, or you don't in a chipping motion designed to deloft by closing up.

1. You can chip by doing the except opposite of a opened-up flop.  I like doing it this way because  a lot of people feel comfortable hitting a flop, so just do the opposite.  Turn the club the other way (deloft it), point your body right instead of left while keeping face on target line and swing slower than you normally would (just like you swing faster in a flop).  That is one way to chip the ball.

2.  You can chip by delofting the club via attack angle.  Just like Stricker and Scott hit flops with their wrists by coming in super-steep, you deloft to hit a chip by coming in super-shallow.  You aim square and set up square, and then you simply bring the club back without a wrist hinge.  Think "keep clubhead as low to the ground as possible as long as possible" then come into the ball like a putter.  This is the "dead hands" chip, and Jason Day also chips this way.

Where everyone gets into trouble is they don't plan it out, so they try to deloft with attack angle and hinge their wrists or they try to deloft by closing down the face and then don't hinge their wrists.  Either of these ways works, but combining elements from one and elements from the other is dead.  You have to choose how you are going to deloft the club (by regripping it delofted, or by attack angle "dead hands" chipping) and only chip that way.

99% of pro golfers chip the opposite way they flop.  They don't mix.  If they flop open, they chip closed.  If they flop by attack angle square, they chip by attack angle square.  If you struggle with chipping try thinking about how you hit a high pitch and do the opposite. A chip isn't some weird unusual shot you practice by itself.  All a chip shot is is the extreme end of your short game mechanics - delofted and slow swing, compared to adding loft and faster swing.  Just do exactly the opposite of how you hit the high shot except slower./decelerating and delofting.  Don't reinvent the wheel or try to do some new technique.

Edited by pinestreetgolf, 07 January 2018 - 06:46 PM.

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#39 sdandrea

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 06:42 PM

Is tour stiff an option?  If not, I'm out......
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#40 Silicon Valley Dale

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 08:15 PM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 07 January 2018 - 06:39 PM, said:

View PostdmeeksDC, on 07 January 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

Nothing I like more on a Sunday than NFL playoffs and a little Pinestreetgolf wedge talk! Always goof stuff.

Another thought along those lines I have with my lower body is to set up 65-35 weight favoring my lead foot (left side for righthander). And my thought is to keep that weight distribution and let the club swing. Don't actually do it but it helps to keep that weignt from moving around too much. I have learned setup is everything and if you get it right and don't move all over the place, pitches and touch wedge shots become a lot cleaner and easier. I think the key to these shots is to take things out of your swing and make them simpler.

Another good trick is to flare your back foot away from the target.  This immobilizes the rear leg pretty effectively and stops the right-knee kick-in which is the cause of 80% of the chilli dips.  Weight left does the same thing, its just about which one fools your brain the best.

View PostSilicon Valley Dale, on 07 January 2018 - 04:17 PM, said:

My issue, and I'm a fairly good chipper when I get this part right, is fully committing to the shot. If I decelarate it's all over. If I commit to it I rarely mishits it. If I don't commit it might go 4 feet. The very definition of a chunk. I need a golf shrink. Roy Mac, any recommends? I'll take R.R. If she's available.

Committing to the shot is kinda nonsense though.  You only know after you've missed.  Its circular.  "Oh I missed... must not have committed".  You have a swing flaw that needs to be fixed.  I'm not trying to call you out, but the short game isn't mystic yoga.  Its a learned skill.  If you have poor technique you will miss no matter how committed you are.  Over time, the importance of "level of commitment" to shots is dwarfed by how important your technique is.

This irks me, so forgive the response.  A whole lot of people say these things.

"Always accelerate" isn't true, and in fact it is false for chip shots.  Like almost everything in golf, it is shot dependent and the vast majority of tour players are just starting to decel at impact with their putter and low running short game shots.  The idea that you should always accelerate through the ball in the short game is harmful.  If you strike ball-first (or where-ever your intended strike is) at the correct speed while creating correct loft for the shot you are hitting you will hit a good shot.  The ball has no idea if you are accelerating or decelerating.  And in chip shots, accelerating is almost always bad and makes the shot much harder.

A chip shot is a reverse flop shot.  In a flop shot, you add loft to the club, aim body left but clubface straight, and swing faster than the distance.  In a chip shot, you deloft the club, aim body right but clubface straight, and swing slower than distance (i.e. you don't accelerate).  Its the mirror of a flop.

In other threads, I posted that there are three ways to create loft to hit a flop - attack angle, opening up clubface, dropping hande.  You can't raise the handle higher, so that's out for chipping, which leaves two basic chipping techniques (and every single good chipper, at their heart, uses one or the other).  The trouble comes when you take elements from both - you get handsy./wristy in a chipping motion that delofts by attack angle, or you don't in a chipping motion designed to deloft by closing up.

1. You can chip by doing the except opposite of a opened-up flop.  I like doing it this way because  a lot of people feel comfortable hitting a flop, so just do the opposite.  Turn the club the other way (deloft it), point your body right instead of left while keeping face on target line and swing slower than you normally would (just like you swing faster in a flop).  That is one way to chip the ball.

2.  You can chip by delofting the club via attack angle.  Just like Stricker and Scott hit flops with their wrists by coming in super-steep, you deloft to hit a chip by coming in super-shallow.  You aim square and set up square, and then you simply bring the club back without a wrist hinge.  Think "keep clubhead as low to the ground as possible as long as possible" then come into the ball like a putter.  This is the "dead hands" chip, and Jason Day also chips this way.

Where everyone gets into trouble is they don't plan it out, so they try to deloft with attack angle and hinge their wrists or they try to deloft by closing down the face and then don't hinge their wrists.  Either of these ways works, but combining elements from one and elements from the other is dead.  You have to choose how you are going to deloft the club (by regripping it delofted, or by attack angle "dead hands" chipping) and only chip that way.

99% of pro golfers chip the opposite way they flop.  They don't mix.  If they flop open, they chip closed.  If they flop by attack angle square, they chip by attack angle square.  If you struggle with chipping try thinking about how you hit a high pitch and do the opposite. A chip isn't some weird unusual shot you practice by itself.  All a chip shot is is the extreme end of your short game mechanics - delofted and slow swing, compared to adding loft and faster swing.  Just do exactly the opposite of how you hit the high shot except slower./decelerating and delofting.  Don't reinvent the wheel or try to do some new technique.

Lol! Thanks I think? But I know halfway through the down swing that I mentally backed off. Sure it might be a swing flaw that manifests itself once every 20 chips or so, in fact it 100% has to be a swing flaw or otherwise I wouldn't do it. All bad shots are a swing flaw, no? If I had the ability to slow down time to 1/1000th of regular I'd be able to tell you "oh ****,!! I didn't commit!!" before I even strike the ball. Lol. It almost always happens on short chips from a tight lie. Swing flaw? Probably. Mental error? 100% of the time. I know it's a mental error because I 100% of the time then step right back into the shot from 4ft closer and without thinking, because I'm now ticked, hit a decent shot.

You can say whatever you'd like and I didn't feel like you were attacking me or knocking me. I have all the physical skills to be a great golfer. I can hit every shot. I can drive it far. I can hit my irons to a set distance. I can hit every approach that is ever needed. I can make putts, short and long. I can hit great chips and pitches.

What sets great golfers and me apart is the mental ability. So when I mentally de-commit from a shot, yeah it's mental. I can hit the shot. I do it 95% of the time. I know I'm doing it well before the shot is struck. I do the same thing from tight fairways. 19/20 are struck well. 1/20 aren't. Again if I could slow down time I could tell you prior to striking the ball that it isn't going to end well. You can call it a swing flaw if it makes you feel better. I know me and know that I can hit the shot, so when I don't hit it well at all, it's because I didn't commit to it. Maybe I was worried because there's trouble long and I'm between clubs and took the longer one. Maybe I hated the pin placement with my shot shape and recalculated the bail out in the middle of my swing. Maybe I start thinking that the cart girl is a fox? Again, when I'm playing casual rounds only, most of the time I do this I'll drop another ball before the first lands. Sometimes I'll even hit the second ball before the first lands. The second usually end up just fine.

I'd think a swing flaw wouldn't end fine almost every time.  I'd do the same thing the second time. I don't because I swing without thinking. I hit the shot that I should have in the first place.

My perspective might be different than yours. I've spent a lot of time on the physical side of the game. My swing has flaws but it's consistent and repeatable. Sometimes I'll block one right or even hit the dreaded snap hook left. I don't feel or see those coming. Swing flaws for sure. When I mentally de-commit, I wouldn't call it a swing flaw. It's a mental error. Sure you can say tempo this or swing plane that, but it's in my head. It's not because I can't hit the shot. Its because something went wrong in my head.

Like I said, I need a golf shrink. I've seen the swing doc. He cured my physical ails. What keeps me from being very good is between my ears. You seem knowledgeable and appear to offer good advice. However you don't know me. When I tell you I backed off mentally, whether you can believe it or not, I know I've backed off mentally. Call it whatever you want, I know a swing flaw. I live with many every day. For me short game lack of commitment is exactly that.


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#41 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 10:19 PM

View PostSilicon Valley Dale, on 07 January 2018 - 08:15 PM, said:

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 07 January 2018 - 06:39 PM, said:

View PostdmeeksDC, on 07 January 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

Nothing I like more on a Sunday than NFL playoffs and a little Pinestreetgolf wedge talk! Always goof stuff.

Another thought along those lines I have with my lower body is to set up 65-35 weight favoring my lead foot (left side for righthander). And my thought is to keep that weight distribution and let the club swing. Don't actually do it but it helps to keep that weignt from moving around too much. I have learned setup is everything and if you get it right and don't move all over the place, pitches and touch wedge shots become a lot cleaner and easier. I think the key to these shots is to take things out of your swing and make them simpler.

Another good trick is to flare your back foot away from the target.  This immobilizes the rear leg pretty effectively and stops the right-knee kick-in which is the cause of 80% of the chilli dips.  Weight left does the same thing, its just about which one fools your brain the best.

View PostSilicon Valley Dale, on 07 January 2018 - 04:17 PM, said:

My issue, and I'm a fairly good chipper when I get this part right, is fully committing to the shot. If I decelarate it's all over. If I commit to it I rarely mishits it. If I don't commit it might go 4 feet. The very definition of a chunk. I need a golf shrink. Roy Mac, any recommends? I'll take R.R. If she's available.

Committing to the shot is kinda nonsense though.  You only know after you've missed.  Its circular.  "Oh I missed... must not have committed".  You have a swing flaw that needs to be fixed.  I'm not trying to call you out, but the short game isn't mystic yoga.  Its a learned skill.  If you have poor technique you will miss no matter how committed you are.  Over time, the importance of "level of commitment" to shots is dwarfed by how important your technique is.

This irks me, so forgive the response.  A whole lot of people say these things.

"Always accelerate" isn't true, and in fact it is false for chip shots.  Like almost everything in golf, it is shot dependent and the vast majority of tour players are just starting to decel at impact with their putter and low running short game shots.  The idea that you should always accelerate through the ball in the short game is harmful.  If you strike ball-first (or where-ever your intended strike is) at the correct speed while creating correct loft for the shot you are hitting you will hit a good shot.  The ball has no idea if you are accelerating or decelerating.  And in chip shots, accelerating is almost always bad and makes the shot much harder.

A chip shot is a reverse flop shot.  In a flop shot, you add loft to the club, aim body left but clubface straight, and swing faster than the distance.  In a chip shot, you deloft the club, aim body right but clubface straight, and swing slower than distance (i.e. you don't accelerate).  Its the mirror of a flop.

In other threads, I posted that there are three ways to create loft to hit a flop - attack angle, opening up clubface, dropping hande.  You can't raise the handle higher, so that's out for chipping, which leaves two basic chipping techniques (and every single good chipper, at their heart, uses one or the other).  The trouble comes when you take elements from both - you get handsy./wristy in a chipping motion that delofts by attack angle, or you don't in a chipping motion designed to deloft by closing up.

1. You can chip by doing the except opposite of a opened-up flop.  I like doing it this way because  a lot of people feel comfortable hitting a flop, so just do the opposite.  Turn the club the other way (deloft it), point your body right instead of left while keeping face on target line and swing slower than you normally would (just like you swing faster in a flop).  That is one way to chip the ball.

2.  You can chip by delofting the club via attack angle.  Just like Stricker and Scott hit flops with their wrists by coming in super-steep, you deloft to hit a chip by coming in super-shallow.  You aim square and set up square, and then you simply bring the club back without a wrist hinge.  Think "keep clubhead as low to the ground as possible as long as possible" then come into the ball like a putter.  This is the "dead hands" chip, and Jason Day also chips this way.

Where everyone gets into trouble is they don't plan it out, so they try to deloft with attack angle and hinge their wrists or they try to deloft by closing down the face and then don't hinge their wrists.  Either of these ways works, but combining elements from one and elements from the other is dead.  You have to choose how you are going to deloft the club (by regripping it delofted, or by attack angle "dead hands" chipping) and only chip that way.

99% of pro golfers chip the opposite way they flop.  They don't mix.  If they flop open, they chip closed.  If they flop by attack angle square, they chip by attack angle square.  If you struggle with chipping try thinking about how you hit a high pitch and do the opposite. A chip isn't some weird unusual shot you practice by itself.  All a chip shot is is the extreme end of your short game mechanics - delofted and slow swing, compared to adding loft and faster swing.  Just do exactly the opposite of how you hit the high shot except slower./decelerating and delofting.  Don't reinvent the wheel or try to do some new technique.

Lol! Thanks I think? But I know halfway through the down swing that I mentally backed off. Sure it might be a swing flaw that manifests itself once every 20 chips or so, in fact it 100% has to be a swing flaw or otherwise I wouldn't do it. All bad shots are a swing flaw, no? If I had the ability to slow down time to 1/1000th of regular I'd be able to tell you "oh ****,!! I didn't commit!!" before I even strike the ball. Lol. It almost always happens on short chips from a tight lie. Swing flaw? Probably. Mental error? 100% of the time. I know it's a mental error because I 100% of the time then step right back into the shot from 4ft closer and without thinking, because I'm now ticked, hit a decent shot.

You can say whatever you'd like and I didn't feel like you were attacking me or knocking me. I have all the physical skills to be a great golfer. I can hit every shot. I can drive it far. I can hit my irons to a set distance. I can hit every approach that is ever needed. I can make putts, short and long. I can hit great chips and pitches.

What sets great golfers and me apart is the mental ability. So when I mentally de-commit from a shot, yeah it's mental. I can hit the shot. I do it 95% of the time. I know I'm doing it well before the shot is struck. I do the same thing from tight fairways. 19/20 are struck well. 1/20 aren't. Again if I could slow down time I could tell you prior to striking the ball that it isn't going to end well. You can call it a swing flaw if it makes you feel better. I know me and know that I can hit the shot, so when I don't hit it well at all, it's because I didn't commit to it. Maybe I was worried because there's trouble long and I'm between clubs and took the longer one. Maybe I hated the pin placement with my shot shape and recalculated the bail out in the middle of my swing. Maybe I start thinking that the cart girl is a fox? Again, when I'm playing casual rounds only, most of the time I do this I'll drop another ball before the first lands. Sometimes I'll even hit the second ball before the first lands. The second usually end up just fine.

I'd think a swing flaw wouldn't end fine almost every time.  I'd do the same thing the second time. I don't because I swing without thinking. I hit the shot that I should have in the first place.

My perspective might be different than yours. I've spent a lot of time on the physical side of the game. My swing has flaws but it's consistent and repeatable. Sometimes I'll block one right or even hit the dreaded snap hook left. I don't feel or see those coming. Swing flaws for sure. When I mentally de-commit, I wouldn't call it a swing flaw. It's a mental error. Sure you can say tempo this or swing plane that, but it's in my head. It's not because I can't hit the shot. Its because something went wrong in my head.

Like I said, I need a golf shrink. I've seen the swing doc. He cured my physical ails. What keeps me from being very good is between my ears. You seem knowledgeable and appear to offer good advice. However you don't know me. When I tell you I backed off mentally, whether you can believe it or not, I know I've backed off mentally. Call it whatever you want, I know a swing flaw. I live with many every day. For me short game lack of commitment is exactly that.

I was speaking in the context of a chip shot only.  The mental game is way more important in the full swing than in the short game, simply because of the speed and the capacity for miss.  If you have control over the bottom of your short game swing and you understand how to loft and deloft a greenside wedge you are probably going to be pretty good.  It is very rare that you see a guy hitting every short game shot square and the proper trajectory and just coming up 10 feet short for a decade because of a lack of commitment.  I can't speak to your full swing, but I can say that the commitment required to bend a 7 iron around a tree is a helluva lot different than the commitment required to bump a ball 7-8 yards.  So, we don't need to have this fight, but I want to make clear that I was speaking solely with respect to chipping, which is a short game shot that runs along the ground without obstacles.  The full swing is a completely different animal, and I didn't mean anything there.

No, not all bad chips are a swing flaw.  The second most important aspect of chipping (to swing bottom) is reading the green and choosing a landing spot, which has nothing to do with your chipping motion.

Like you said, I don't know your game.  I'd be willing to bet you have a small hitch somewhere that most of the time you can cover up but when you get under pressure or every once a while you can't save it with timing and struggle.  That feels like a mental issue, but it isn't.  Inconsistency in golf 90% of the time is not mental its physical compensations for a flaw that can't be timed well enough under pressure or over the course of many rounds.

Given your comment about purposefully accelerating through chip shots (which we know professionals do not do) I think something might be off.  BUT as you say, I do not know you or your game.  A random dude on the internet thinks you may have a swing flaw you cover up with a narrative about commitment when your timing gets a bit off.  Don't worry about it.  

The real reason I wanted to respond was the "accelerate" comment, which a ton of people think and makes it basically impossible to chip well.  It would be like telling someone to decelerate through a flop shot.  They are just mirror images.  The higher you want to hit a flop, the more you open the wedge and the faster you swing.  The lower you want to run a chip, the more you close the wedge and the slower you swing.

Edited by pinestreetgolf, 07 January 2018 - 10:25 PM.

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11

#42 BottleCap

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 07:49 AM

Is this made by Taylormade?
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#43 erock9174

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 07:58 AM

View Post95124hacker, on 07 January 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

View PostTheLarch, on 06 January 2018 - 06:18 PM, said:

Been watching the Sentry Championship from Hawaii the past couple days, and have been reminded by whoever this person is every ten to fifteen minutes that if you have a problem "chunking it out" that you might want to try the Square Strike Wedge.  Not sure what "chunking it out" is exactly, but I think it's akin to chunking it up and/or chunking it down.  I haven't seen anyone playing yesterday or today "chunk it out" so I believe everyone at Kapalua is using the Square Strike Wedge, the XG7 Driver, the C3I Wedge, and the Medicus Putter with front wheel drive.  Anyone know where I can get a dozen Kick X balls?

Lol. I would love someone here to do a head to head shootout with the gimmick clubs vs traditional clubs. Would Crossfield or Shiels do it?

MGS recently did a bunker test with the Cleveland Smart Sole, Callaway Sure Out, informercial C3i and a traditional wedge with I think some 10-20 handicappers. The C3i narrowly beat out the Smart Sole. The traditional wedge finished last.
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#44 95124hacker

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 03:56 PM

View Posterock9174, on 08 January 2018 - 07:58 AM, said:

View Post95124hacker, on 07 January 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

View PostTheLarch, on 06 January 2018 - 06:18 PM, said:

Been watching the Sentry Championship from Hawaii the past couple days, and have been reminded by whoever this person is every ten to fifteen minutes that if you have a problem "chunking it out" that you might want to try the Square Strike Wedge.  Not sure what "chunking it out" is exactly, but I think it's akin to chunking it up and/or chunking it down.  I haven't seen anyone playing yesterday or today "chunk it out" so I believe everyone at Kapalua is using the Square Strike Wedge, the XG7 Driver, the C3I Wedge, and the Medicus Putter with front wheel drive.  Anyone know where I can get a dozen Kick X balls?

Lol. I would love someone here to do a head to head shootout with the gimmick clubs vs traditional clubs. Would Crossfield or Shiels do it?

MGS recently did a bunker test with the Cleveland Smart Sole, Callaway Sure Out, informercial C3i and a traditional wedge with I think some 10-20 handicappers. The C3i narrowly beat out the Smart Sole. The traditional wedge finished last.

Just read that MGS article. Good read but no way in hell am I going to put one of those in my bag!  The ribbing from my buddies would be never ending, even if were to hole out with one!
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Ball: still experimenting...

14

#45 buckeyefl

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 05:47 PM

Put it in the bag and laugh at them when you shoot a better score. Would their laughter be any louder than when you leave one in the bunker or skull it over the green?


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#46 DallasSteve

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 11:17 AM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 07 January 2018 - 10:19 PM, said:

View PostSilicon Valley Dale, on 07 January 2018 - 08:15 PM, said:

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 07 January 2018 - 06:39 PM, said:

View PostdmeeksDC, on 07 January 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

Nothing I like more on a Sunday than NFL playoffs and a little Pinestreetgolf wedge talk! Always goof stuff.

Another thought along those lines I have with my lower body is to set up 65-35 weight favoring my lead foot (left side for righthander). And my thought is to keep that weight distribution and let the club swing. Don't actually do it but it helps to keep that weignt from moving around too much. I have learned setup is everything and if you get it right and don't move all over the place, pitches and touch wedge shots become a lot cleaner and easier. I think the key to these shots is to take things out of your swing and make them simpler.

Another good trick is to flare your back foot away from the target.  This immobilizes the rear leg pretty effectively and stops the right-knee kick-in which is the cause of 80% of the chilli dips.  Weight left does the same thing, its just about which one fools your brain the best.

View PostSilicon Valley Dale, on 07 January 2018 - 04:17 PM, said:

My issue, and I'm a fairly good chipper when I get this part right, is fully committing to the shot. If I decelarate it's all over. If I commit to it I rarely mishits it. If I don't commit it might go 4 feet. The very definition of a chunk. I need a golf shrink. Roy Mac, any recommends? I'll take R.R. If she's available.

Committing to the shot is kinda nonsense though.  You only know after you've missed.  Its circular.  "Oh I missed... must not have committed".  You have a swing flaw that needs to be fixed.  I'm not trying to call you out, but the short game isn't mystic yoga.  Its a learned skill.  If you have poor technique you will miss no matter how committed you are.  Over time, the importance of "level of commitment" to shots is dwarfed by how important your technique is.

This irks me, so forgive the response.  A whole lot of people say these things.

"Always accelerate" isn't true, and in fact it is false for chip shots.  Like almost everything in golf, it is shot dependent and the vast majority of tour players are just starting to decel at impact with their putter and low running short game shots.  The idea that you should always accelerate through the ball in the short game is harmful.  If you strike ball-first (or where-ever your intended strike is) at the correct speed while creating correct loft for the shot you are hitting you will hit a good shot.  The ball has no idea if you are accelerating or decelerating.  And in chip shots, accelerating is almost always bad and makes the shot much harder.

A chip shot is a reverse flop shot.  In a flop shot, you add loft to the club, aim body left but clubface straight, and swing faster than the distance.  In a chip shot, you deloft the club, aim body right but clubface straight, and swing slower than distance (i.e. you don't accelerate).  Its the mirror of a flop.

In other threads, I posted that there are three ways to create loft to hit a flop - attack angle, opening up clubface, dropping hande.  You can't raise the handle higher, so that's out for chipping, which leaves two basic chipping techniques (and every single good chipper, at their heart, uses one or the other).  The trouble comes when you take elements from both - you get handsy./wristy in a chipping motion that delofts by attack angle, or you don't in a chipping motion designed to deloft by closing up.

1. You can chip by doing the except opposite of a opened-up flop.  I like doing it this way because  a lot of people feel comfortable hitting a flop, so just do the opposite.  Turn the club the other way (deloft it), point your body right instead of left while keeping face on target line and swing slower than you normally would (just like you swing faster in a flop).  That is one way to chip the ball.

2.  You can chip by delofting the club via attack angle.  Just like Stricker and Scott hit flops with their wrists by coming in super-steep, you deloft to hit a chip by coming in super-shallow.  You aim square and set up square, and then you simply bring the club back without a wrist hinge.  Think "keep clubhead as low to the ground as possible as long as possible" then come into the ball like a putter.  This is the "dead hands" chip, and Jason Day also chips this way.

Where everyone gets into trouble is they don't plan it out, so they try to deloft with attack angle and hinge their wrists or they try to deloft by closing down the face and then don't hinge their wrists.  Either of these ways works, but combining elements from one and elements from the other is dead.  You have to choose how you are going to deloft the club (by regripping it delofted, or by attack angle "dead hands" chipping) and only chip that way.

99% of pro golfers chip the opposite way they flop.  They don't mix.  If they flop open, they chip closed.  If they flop by attack angle square, they chip by attack angle square.  If you struggle with chipping try thinking about how you hit a high pitch and do the opposite. A chip isn't some weird unusual shot you practice by itself.  All a chip shot is is the extreme end of your short game mechanics - delofted and slow swing, compared to adding loft and faster swing.  Just do exactly the opposite of how you hit the high shot except slower./decelerating and delofting.  Don't reinvent the wheel or try to do some new technique.

Lol! Thanks I think? But I know halfway through the down swing that I mentally backed off. Sure it might be a swing flaw that manifests itself once every 20 chips or so, in fact it 100% has to be a swing flaw or otherwise I wouldn't do it. All bad shots are a swing flaw, no? If I had the ability to slow down time to 1/1000th of regular I'd be able to tell you "oh ****,!! I didn't commit!!" before I even strike the ball. Lol. It almost always happens on short chips from a tight lie. Swing flaw? Probably. Mental error? 100% of the time. I know it's a mental error because I 100% of the time then step right back into the shot from 4ft closer and without thinking, because I'm now ticked, hit a decent shot.

You can say whatever you'd like and I didn't feel like you were attacking me or knocking me. I have all the physical skills to be a great golfer. I can hit every shot. I can drive it far. I can hit my irons to a set distance. I can hit every approach that is ever needed. I can make putts, short and long. I can hit great chips and pitches.

What sets great golfers and me apart is the mental ability. So when I mentally de-commit from a shot, yeah it's mental. I can hit the shot. I do it 95% of the time. I know I'm doing it well before the shot is struck. I do the same thing from tight fairways. 19/20 are struck well. 1/20 aren't. Again if I could slow down time I could tell you prior to striking the ball that it isn't going to end well. You can call it a swing flaw if it makes you feel better. I know me and know that I can hit the shot, so when I don't hit it well at all, it's because I didn't commit to it. Maybe I was worried because there's trouble long and I'm between clubs and took the longer one. Maybe I hated the pin placement with my shot shape and recalculated the bail out in the middle of my swing. Maybe I start thinking that the cart girl is a fox? Again, when I'm playing casual rounds only, most of the time I do this I'll drop another ball before the first lands. Sometimes I'll even hit the second ball before the first lands. The second usually end up just fine.

I'd think a swing flaw wouldn't end fine almost every time.  I'd do the same thing the second time. I don't because I swing without thinking. I hit the shot that I should have in the first place.

My perspective might be different than yours. I've spent a lot of time on the physical side of the game. My swing has flaws but it's consistent and repeatable. Sometimes I'll block one right or even hit the dreaded snap hook left. I don't feel or see those coming. Swing flaws for sure. When I mentally de-commit, I wouldn't call it a swing flaw. It's a mental error. Sure you can say tempo this or swing plane that, but it's in my head. It's not because I can't hit the shot. Its because something went wrong in my head.

Like I said, I need a golf shrink. I've seen the swing doc. He cured my physical ails. What keeps me from being very good is between my ears. You seem knowledgeable and appear to offer good advice. However you don't know me. When I tell you I backed off mentally, whether you can believe it or not, I know I've backed off mentally. Call it whatever you want, I know a swing flaw. I live with many every day. For me short game lack of commitment is exactly that.

I was speaking in the context of a chip shot only.  The mental game is way more important in the full swing than in the short game, simply because of the speed and the capacity for miss.  If you have control over the bottom of your short game swing and you understand how to loft and deloft a greenside wedge you are probably going to be pretty good.  It is very rare that you see a guy hitting every short game shot square and the proper trajectory and just coming up 10 feet short for a decade because of a lack of commitment.  I can't speak to your full swing, but I can say that the commitment required to bend a 7 iron around a tree is a helluva lot different than the commitment required to bump a ball 7-8 yards.  So, we don't need to have this fight, but I want to make clear that I was speaking solely with respect to chipping, which is a short game shot that runs along the ground without obstacles.  The full swing is a completely different animal, and I didn't mean anything there.

No, not all bad chips are a swing flaw.  The second most important aspect of chipping (to swing bottom) is reading the green and choosing a landing spot, which has nothing to do with your chipping motion.

Like you said, I don't know your game.  I'd be willing to bet you have a small hitch somewhere that most of the time you can cover up but when you get under pressure or every once a while you can't save it with timing and struggle.  That feels like a mental issue, but it isn't.  Inconsistency in golf 90% of the time is not mental its physical compensations for a flaw that can't be timed well enough under pressure or over the course of many rounds.

Given your comment about purposefully accelerating through chip shots (which we know professionals do not do) I think something might be off.  BUT as you say, I do not know you or your game.  A random dude on the internet thinks you may have a swing flaw you cover up with a narrative about commitment when your timing gets a bit off.  Don't worry about it.  

The real reason I wanted to respond was the "accelerate" comment, which a ton of people think and makes it basically impossible to chip well.  It would be like telling someone to decelerate through a flop shot.  They are just mirror images.  The higher you want to hit a flop, the more you open the wedge and the faster you swing.  The lower you want to run a chip, the more you close the wedge and the slower you swing.

He's describing the chipping yips to you.  It may be borne of bad fundamentals, but it is now between the ears.  I know, I am a sufferer, too.  I used to chip just fine, but my oldest son developed the chipping yips.  In trying to help him through the "technique" side of it, it made me think waaaayyy too much about stuff i was doing very naturally.  After helping him for a couple of years, I caught the disease, too.  I'm basically a scratch golfer, have played for over 50 years, and now have less than 0% confidence that my clubface will strike the ball on a 10' chip.  Unless you've had the yips, you cannot understand it.  I can swing a 6 iron at 85 mph and hit ball first without blading it 99% of the time, but a 5 mph chip is a total crapshoot because of the panic that sets in about halfway down -- is this going to be the blade or the chunk?  It is truly a thing to behold a proficient golfer blade 5 chips in a row.  As Dale says, I hit them fine when I don't care (no mental panic needed), but the yips are just biding their time until I want or "need" to hit the chip well.  Telling someone who suffers from yips that they simply need to hit with more confidence (which is absolutely true) is merely identifying the problem, not the solution.  Three years of intense practice apparently is not the solution.  Maybe hypnosis . . .

16

#47 Meanmachinemoe

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 04:41 PM

I'm going to hold out for a cheap knock-off. Surely, the Chinese have one in production.
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#48 CCTxGolf

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 10:00 PM

Is it just a chipper? Every goodwill in the country probably has one for .50
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#49 Silicon Valley Dale

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:58 AM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 07 January 2018 - 10:19 PM, said:

View PostSilicon Valley Dale, on 07 January 2018 - 08:15 PM, said:

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 07 January 2018 - 06:39 PM, said:

View PostdmeeksDC, on 07 January 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

Nothing I like more on a Sunday than NFL playoffs and a little Pinestreetgolf wedge talk! Always goof stuff.

Another thought along those lines I have with my lower body is to set up 65-35 weight favoring my lead foot (left side for righthander). And my thought is to keep that weight distribution and let the club swing. Don't actually do it but it helps to keep that weignt from moving around too much. I have learned setup is everything and if you get it right and don't move all over the place, pitches and touch wedge shots become a lot cleaner and easier. I think the key to these shots is to take things out of your swing and make them simpler.

Another good trick is to flare your back foot away from the target.  This immobilizes the rear leg pretty effectively and stops the right-knee kick-in which is the cause of 80% of the chilli dips.  Weight left does the same thing, its just about which one fools your brain the best.

View PostSilicon Valley Dale, on 07 January 2018 - 04:17 PM, said:

My issue, and I'm a fairly good chipper when I get this part right, is fully committing to the shot. If I decelarate it's all over. If I commit to it I rarely mishits it. If I don't commit it might go 4 feet. The very definition of a chunk. I need a golf shrink. Roy Mac, any recommends? I'll take R.R. If she's available.

Committing to the shot is kinda nonsense though.  You only know after you've missed.  Its circular.  "Oh I missed... must not have committed".  You have a swing flaw that needs to be fixed.  I'm not trying to call you out, but the short game isn't mystic yoga.  Its a learned skill.  If you have poor technique you will miss no matter how committed you are.  Over time, the importance of "level of commitment" to shots is dwarfed by how important your technique is.

This irks me, so forgive the response.  A whole lot of people say these things.

"Always accelerate" isn't true, and in fact it is false for chip shots.  Like almost everything in golf, it is shot dependent and the vast majority of tour players are just starting to decel at impact with their putter and low running short game shots.  The idea that you should always accelerate through the ball in the short game is harmful.  If you strike ball-first (or where-ever your intended strike is) at the correct speed while creating correct loft for the shot you are hitting you will hit a good shot.  The ball has no idea if you are accelerating or decelerating.  And in chip shots, accelerating is almost always bad and makes the shot much harder.

A chip shot is a reverse flop shot.  In a flop shot, you add loft to the club, aim body left but clubface straight, and swing faster than the distance.  In a chip shot, you deloft the club, aim body right but clubface straight, and swing slower than distance (i.e. you don't accelerate).  Its the mirror of a flop.

In other threads, I posted that there are three ways to create loft to hit a flop - attack angle, opening up clubface, dropping hande.  You can't raise the handle higher, so that's out for chipping, which leaves two basic chipping techniques (and every single good chipper, at their heart, uses one or the other).  The trouble comes when you take elements from both - you get handsy./wristy in a chipping motion that delofts by attack angle, or you don't in a chipping motion designed to deloft by closing up.

1. You can chip by doing the except opposite of a opened-up flop.  I like doing it this way because  a lot of people feel comfortable hitting a flop, so just do the opposite.  Turn the club the other way (deloft it), point your body right instead of left while keeping face on target line and swing slower than you normally would (just like you swing faster in a flop).  That is one way to chip the ball.

2.  You can chip by delofting the club via attack angle.  Just like Stricker and Scott hit flops with their wrists by coming in super-steep, you deloft to hit a chip by coming in super-shallow.  You aim square and set up square, and then you simply bring the club back without a wrist hinge.  Think "keep clubhead as low to the ground as possible as long as possible" then come into the ball like a putter.  This is the "dead hands" chip, and Jason Day also chips this way.

Where everyone gets into trouble is they don't plan it out, so they try to deloft with attack angle and hinge their wrists or they try to deloft by closing down the face and then don't hinge their wrists.  Either of these ways works, but combining elements from one and elements from the other is dead.  You have to choose how you are going to deloft the club (by regripping it delofted, or by attack angle "dead hands" chipping) and only chip that way.

99% of pro golfers chip the opposite way they flop.  They don't mix.  If they flop open, they chip closed.  If they flop by attack angle square, they chip by attack angle square.  If you struggle with chipping try thinking about how you hit a high pitch and do the opposite. A chip isn't some weird unusual shot you practice by itself.  All a chip shot is is the extreme end of your short game mechanics - delofted and slow swing, compared to adding loft and faster swing.  Just do exactly the opposite of how you hit the high shot except slower./decelerating and delofting.  Don't reinvent the wheel or try to do some new technique.

Lol! Thanks I think? But I know halfway through the down swing that I mentally backed off. Sure it might be a swing flaw that manifests itself once every 20 chips or so, in fact it 100% has to be a swing flaw or otherwise I wouldn't do it. All bad shots are a swing flaw, no? If I had the ability to slow down time to 1/1000th of regular I'd be able to tell you "oh ****,!! I didn't commit!!" before I even strike the ball. Lol. It almost always happens on short chips from a tight lie. Swing flaw? Probably. Mental error? 100% of the time. I know it's a mental error because I 100% of the time then step right back into the shot from 4ft closer and without thinking, because I'm now ticked, hit a decent shot.

You can say whatever you'd like and I didn't feel like you were attacking me or knocking me. I have all the physical skills to be a great golfer. I can hit every shot. I can drive it far. I can hit my irons to a set distance. I can hit every approach that is ever needed. I can make putts, short and long. I can hit great chips and pitches.

What sets great golfers and me apart is the mental ability. So when I mentally de-commit from a shot, yeah it's mental. I can hit the shot. I do it 95% of the time. I know I'm doing it well before the shot is struck. I do the same thing from tight fairways. 19/20 are struck well. 1/20 aren't. Again if I could slow down time I could tell you prior to striking the ball that it isn't going to end well. You can call it a swing flaw if it makes you feel better. I know me and know that I can hit the shot, so when I don't hit it well at all, it's because I didn't commit to it. Maybe I was worried because there's trouble long and I'm between clubs and took the longer one. Maybe I hated the pin placement with my shot shape and recalculated the bail out in the middle of my swing. Maybe I start thinking that the cart girl is a fox? Again, when I'm playing casual rounds only, most of the time I do this I'll drop another ball before the first lands. Sometimes I'll even hit the second ball before the first lands. The second usually end up just fine.

I'd think a swing flaw wouldn't end fine almost every time.  I'd do the same thing the second time. I don't because I swing without thinking. I hit the shot that I should have in the first place.

My perspective might be different than yours. I've spent a lot of time on the physical side of the game. My swing has flaws but it's consistent and repeatable. Sometimes I'll block one right or even hit the dreaded snap hook left. I don't feel or see those coming. Swing flaws for sure. When I mentally de-commit, I wouldn't call it a swing flaw. It's a mental error. Sure you can say tempo this or swing plane that, but it's in my head. It's not because I can't hit the shot. Its because something went wrong in my head.

Like I said, I need a golf shrink. I've seen the swing doc. He cured my physical ails. What keeps me from being very good is between my ears. You seem knowledgeable and appear to offer good advice. However you don't know me. When I tell you I backed off mentally, whether you can believe it or not, I know I've backed off mentally. Call it whatever you want, I know a swing flaw. I live with many every day. For me short game lack of commitment is exactly that.

I was speaking in the context of a chip shot only.  The mental game is way more important in the full swing than in the short game, simply because of the speed and the capacity for miss.  If you have control over the bottom of your short game swing and you understand how to loft and deloft a greenside wedge you are probably going to be pretty good.  It is very rare that you see a guy hitting every short game shot square and the proper trajectory and just coming up 10 feet short for a decade because of a lack of commitment.  I can't speak to your full swing, but I can say that the commitment required to bend a 7 iron around a tree is a helluva lot different than the commitment required to bump a ball 7-8 yards.  So, we don't need to have this fight, but I want to make clear that I was speaking solely with respect to chipping, which is a short game shot that runs along the ground without obstacles.  The full swing is a completely different animal, and I didn't mean anything there.

No, not all bad chips are a swing flaw.  The second most important aspect of chipping (to swing bottom) is reading the green and choosing a landing spot, which has nothing to do with your chipping motion.

Like you said, I don't know your game.  I'd be willing to bet you have a small hitch somewhere that most of the time you can cover up but when you get under pressure or every once a while you can't save it with timing and struggle.  That feels like a mental issue, but it isn't.  Inconsistency in golf 90% of the time is not mental its physical compensations for a flaw that can't be timed well enough under pressure or over the course of many rounds.

Given your comment about purposefully accelerating through chip shots (which we know professionals do not do) I think something might be off.  BUT as you say, I do not know you or your game.  A random dude on the internet thinks you may have a swing flaw you cover up with a narrative about commitment when your timing gets a bit off.  Don't worry about it.  

The real reason I wanted to respond was the "accelerate" comment, which a ton of people think and makes it basically impossible to chip well.  It would be like telling someone to decelerate through a flop shot.  They are just mirror images.  The higher you want to hit a flop, the more you open the wedge and the faster you swing.  The lower you want to run a chip, the more you close the wedge and the slower you swing.

Thanks for the reply. Everything you said made sense for sure. By "accelerate through" I probably meant more along the lines of "don't stop the swing or go dead hands". I'm never under any pressure golfing, I mostly play with my dad for 1.00 a round and neither of us ever pay up. I give him 18 strokes, ha. I usually win and should give him more but I know on a good day he's a bogey golfer and on a good day I'm a par golfer. Knowing that,  I just can't give him more, lol. I wasn't  trying to argue or start a fight, I was just trying to explain how I saw things. My bad short chips from a tight lie look like the old guy on the square strike commercial. Probably a fear of blading the shot and rolling into the abyss that is long hits me at the last second. Sure there's swing flaw there, if there wasn't I wouldn't do that. But where I disagree is that it's the reason why I do it. We both have valid points and we can disagree on the root cause. I'm fine with that. So I'll wish you a pleasant evening and thanks for the insight! It's well thought out and I'm the reverse of being offended.

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#50 grm24

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 01:14 AM

View PostBMC, on 06 January 2018 - 08:42 PM, said:

View Postspineshank, on 06 January 2018 - 06:40 PM, said:

I like that dudes title that says “2x US open champion” but underneath it says analyst but it’s fast enough you can easily miss the analyst part.

That dude is Andy North.  He won two US Opens.
Be careful. Some people here hate when you post facts and cause their simple little minds distress.


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#51 grm24

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 01:21 AM

View Postspineshank, on 06 January 2018 - 06:40 PM, said:

I like that dudes title that says “2x US open champion” but underneath it says analyst but it’s fast enough you can easily miss the analyst part.
That "dude" is an actual two time US Open champion and has been a golf analyst on ESPN/ABC since 1993. Funny how that "title" works out.

Edited by grm24, 11 January 2018 - 01:44 AM.


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#52 msnorwood

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 09:58 PM

View Postspineshank, on 06 January 2018 - 06:40 PM, said:

I like that dudes title that says ď2x US open championĒ but underneath it says analyst but itís fast enough you can easily miss the analyst part.

Thatís Andy North. He actually won the US Open twice. 😂

Edited by msnorwood, 12 January 2018 - 09:59 PM.


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#53 zebra2955

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 09:07 AM

Question about this club. Could you actually take a full shot with one ? If not it's taking up space in your bag for one that you could
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#54 caniac6

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 09:44 AM

View Postsdandrea, on 07 January 2018 - 06:42 PM, said:

Is tour stiff an option?  If not, I'm out......
How about a headcover?

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#55 hybrid25

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 11:49 AM

The ability to control the pressure of the moment is a big factor in wedge play. Most know how the mechanics are supposed to work, but are afraid to let it happen.


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#56 bogeypro

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 12:30 PM

View PostHackATK, on 07 January 2018 - 09:48 AM, said:

Haha no club will fix SHI#$Y execution.

another candidate for post of the year!!!  short, sweet, and to the point.  Would make a good bumper sticker or political slogan....
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#57 dmb3535

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 01:01 PM

I won a sure out wedge at a golf tournament I was playing in for getting closest to pin. Kinda a weird prize, but figured I would try to sell somewhere for few bucks. After the tournament (just a fun tournament, so had a few beverages in me) we tried it out of the bunker and thick rough. That thing really works. I do not carry it in my bag, but if I ever start having bunker issues again, I am def putting the sure out wedge in the bag. Just hitting out of super long rough, it would stop on a dime. Thing is ugly as hell, but I can def see it helping a higher handicap. I do not see it as a teaching club, but more as an alternative.

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#58 gioguy21

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 01:04 PM

View Postdmb3535, on 08 February 2018 - 01:01 PM, said:

I won a sure out wedge at a golf tournament I was playing in for getting closest to pin. Kinda a weird prize, but figured I would try to sell somewhere for few bucks. After the tournament (just a fun tournament, so had a few beverages in me) we tried it out of the bunker and thick rough. That thing really works. I do not carry it in my bag, but if I ever start having bunker issues again, I am def putting the sure out wedge in the bag. Just hitting out of super long rough, it would stop on a dime. Thing is ugly as hell, but I can def see it helping a higher handicap. I do not see it as a teaching club, but more as an alternative.
but why can't you just hit a regular wedge?

I mean, all you have to do is open the stance, open the clubface and hit exactly 2" behind the ball. not every amateur has hours and hours of practice to perfect this shot....

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28

#59 cb24

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 01:12 PM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 07 January 2018 - 06:39 PM, said:

View PostdmeeksDC, on 07 January 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

Nothing I like more on a Sunday than NFL playoffs and a little Pinestreetgolf wedge talk! Always goof stuff.

Another thought along those lines I have with my lower body is to set up 65-35 weight favoring my lead foot (left side for righthander). And my thought is to keep that weight distribution and let the club swing. Don't actually do it but it helps to keep that weignt from moving around too much. I have learned setup is everything and if you get it right and don't move all over the place, pitches and touch wedge shots become a lot cleaner and easier. I think the key to these shots is to take things out of your swing and make them simpler.

Another good trick is to flare your back foot away from the target.  This immobilizes the rear leg pretty effectively and stops the right-knee kick-in which is the cause of 80% of the chilli dips.  Weight left does the same thing, its just about which one fools your brain the best.

View PostSilicon Valley Dale, on 07 January 2018 - 04:17 PM, said:

My issue, and I'm a fairly good chipper when I get this part right, is fully committing to the shot. If I decelarate it's all over. If I commit to it I rarely mishits it. If I don't commit it might go 4 feet. The very definition of a chunk. I need a golf shrink. Roy Mac, any recommends? I'll take R.R. If she's available.

Committing to the shot is kinda nonsense though.  You only know after you've missed.  Its circular.  "Oh I missed... must not have committed".  You have a swing flaw that needs to be fixed.  I'm not trying to call you out, but the short game isn't mystic yoga.  Its a learned skill.  If you have poor technique you will miss no matter how committed you are.  Over time, the importance of "level of commitment" to shots is dwarfed by how important your technique is.

This irks me, so forgive the response.  A whole lot of people say these things.

"Always accelerate" isn't true, and in fact it is false for chip shots.  Like almost everything in golf, it is shot dependent and the vast majority of tour players are just starting to decel at impact with their putter and low running short game shots.  The idea that you should always accelerate through the ball in the short game is harmful.  If you strike ball-first (or where-ever your intended strike is) at the correct speed while creating correct loft for the shot you are hitting you will hit a good shot.  The ball has no idea if you are accelerating or decelerating.  And in chip shots, accelerating is almost always bad and makes the shot much harder.

A chip shot is a reverse flop shot.  In a flop shot, you add loft to the club, aim body left but clubface straight, and swing faster than the distance.  In a chip shot, you deloft the club, aim body right but clubface straight, and swing slower than distance (i.e. you don't accelerate).  Its the mirror of a flop.

In other threads, I posted that there are three ways to create loft to hit a flop - attack angle, opening up clubface, dropping hande.  You can't raise the handle higher, so that's out for chipping, which leaves two basic chipping techniques (and every single good chipper, at their heart, uses one or the other).  The trouble comes when you take elements from both - you get handsy./wristy in a chipping motion that delofts by attack angle, or you don't in a chipping motion designed to deloft by closing up.

1. You can chip by doing the except opposite of a opened-up flop.  I like doing it this way because  a lot of people feel comfortable hitting a flop, so just do the opposite.  Turn the club the other way (deloft it), point your body right instead of left while keeping face on target line and swing slower than you normally would (just like you swing faster in a flop).  That is one way to chip the ball.

2.  You can chip by delofting the club via attack angle.  Just like Stricker and Scott hit flops with their wrists by coming in super-steep, you deloft to hit a chip by coming in super-shallow.  You aim square and set up square, and then you simply bring the club back without a wrist hinge.  Think "keep clubhead as low to the ground as possible as long as possible" then come into the ball like a putter.  This is the "dead hands" chip, and Jason Day also chips this way.

Where everyone gets into trouble is they don't plan it out, so they try to deloft with attack angle and hinge their wrists or they try to deloft by closing down the face and then don't hinge their wrists.  Either of these ways works, but combining elements from one and elements from the other is dead.  You have to choose how you are going to deloft the club (by regripping it delofted, or by attack angle "dead hands" chipping) and only chip that way.

99% of pro golfers chip the opposite way they flop.  They don't mix.  If they flop open, they chip closed.  If they flop by attack angle square, they chip by attack angle square.  If you struggle with chipping try thinking about how you hit a high pitch and do the opposite. A chip isn't some weird unusual shot you practice by itself.  All a chip shot is is the extreme end of your short game mechanics - delofted and slow swing, compared to adding loft and faster swing.  Just do exactly the opposite of how you hit the high shot except slower./decelerating and delofting.  Don't reinvent the wheel or try to do some new technique.

I agree technique is a lot but itís not everything.  If a player has a mental problem where fear causes them to panic on the downswing, I wouldnít say thatís a technique issue.  I love chipping and itís probably the strongest part of my game but I have a couple friends whose technique isnít great but itís workable, and man when they get the yips itís insane.  It literally is liking their brain and body stop communicating.  Fear can literally be paralyzing.

  I was scratch up until a recent wrist injury (havenít played in 7 months) and confidence and tempo and consistency can over come relatively poor mechanics.  If you are paralyzed by fear, itís tough to help someone like that.  My full swing had the flaws you are discussing and when faced with the pressure of tournaments I failed miserably.  Now I am going to do a full swing rebuild, hope it works out well, but yeah on the chipping side, I actually think mental is bigger than technique. I was a perfect example would hinge my wrists doing all kinds of things but it worked because I practiced and trusted it.  People who chipped much worse would always try to correct me but whatís the point?  I was chipping closer to the pin, holing chips out every few rounds and able to get up and down from anywhere.  Confidence is huge in the short game of course combined with decent fundamentals.

Edited by cb24, 19 March 2018 - 01:13 PM.


29

#60 Derek666

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 01:18 PM

Ive seen things like this before, better just getting to terms with a normal wedge than wasting your money on something like this but i dont struggle with the short game so im sure some would try anything to stop thinning shots and fatting chips etc.


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