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Blue Printing First Set of Clubs: Completed; Tools, Measurements, ShaftPrep

MOI Swingweight Length

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#31 Golfrnut

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 03:50 PM

View PostStrolf, on 09 January 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

View PostStuart G., on 09 January 2018 - 05:01 AM, said:

Nice posts!

Minor point though - not going to hurt anything using it but you're wasting your time with a bearing based spine finder.  They can be very inaccurate and unreliable.  If you are concerned about spines (and I'm not implying you should be), then just jump right to FLO.  But finding the spine with FLO also requires a frequency check to differentiate FLO from NBP.

Would love to learn more on this.  I've heard these shafts are sooo good that frequency checking is pointless (along with added cost for me as a home builder).

Nothing really too fancy about it, more time consuming than hard.  You just freq check them but do so multiple times while rotating the shaft in increments to find the weak/strong side of the shaft using CPMs as opposed to the deflection using the spine finder.  From there you can FLO just to verify the oscillations are uniform and not wobbling all over the place.

Whether the juice is worth the squeeze will come down to personal preference.

Edited by Golfrnut, 09 January 2018 - 03:51 PM.

TM Supertri V2 w/ AD DI (Testing a new one that's on probation)
Callaway 3Deep w/ 73 BB or Stage 2 3W w/ 73 BB
Stage 2 3H w/ i80 Steelfiber
Callaway Apex UT 21* w/ i80 Steelfiber
Callaway X Prototype MBs 4-PW w/ Steelfiber AMI 99s
Callaway MD3 52* & 58* PM grind (both X100 8 iron SS)
Odyssey MXM 1W

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#32 Strolf

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 04:02 PM

View PostGolfrnut, on 09 January 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

View PostStrolf, on 09 January 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

View PostStuart G., on 09 January 2018 - 05:01 AM, said:

Nice posts!

Minor point though - not going to hurt anything using it but you're wasting your time with a bearing based spine finder.  They can be very inaccurate and unreliable.  If you are concerned about spines (and I'm not implying you should be), then just jump right to FLO.  But finding the spine with FLO also requires a frequency check to differentiate FLO from NBP.

Would love to learn more on this.  I've heard these shafts are sooo good that frequency checking is pointless (along with added cost for me as a home builder).

Nothing really too fancy about it, more time consuming than hard.  You just freq check them but do so multiple times while rotating the shaft in increments to find the weak/strong side of the shaft using CPMs as opposed to the deflection using the spine finder.  From there you can FLO just to verify the oscillations are uniform and not wobbling all over the place.

Whether the juice is worth the squeeze will come down to personal preference.

Thanks, I've been searching for an affordable frequency machine and want to try it.  Can I do a check once the clubs are all assembled?  For what it's worth...I talked with Chris Voshall one time about Pureing shafts, and he said that with today's technology, it wasn't really worth it, particularly with irons.  I'll know real soon if something is off, I'm fairly sensitive to varying weights and flexes.  I wish I could hit anything good, but just can't.

2

#33 Golfrnut

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 04:10 PM

View PostStrolf, on 09 January 2018 - 04:02 PM, said:

View PostGolfrnut, on 09 January 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

View PostStrolf, on 09 January 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

View PostStuart G., on 09 January 2018 - 05:01 AM, said:

Nice posts! Minor point though - not going to hurt anything using it but you're wasting your time with a bearing based spine finder. They can be very inaccurate and unreliable. If you are concerned about spines (and I'm not implying you should be), then just jump right to FLO. But finding the spine with FLO also requires a frequency check to differentiate FLO from NBP.
Would love to learn more on this. I've heard these shafts are sooo good that frequency checking is pointless (along with added cost for me as a home builder).
Nothing really too fancy about it, more time consuming than hard. You just freq check them but do so multiple times while rotating the shaft in increments to find the weak/strong side of the shaft using CPMs as opposed to the deflection using the spine finder. From there you can FLO just to verify the oscillations are uniform and not wobbling all over the place. Whether the juice is worth the squeeze will come down to personal preference.
Thanks, I've been searching for an affordable frequency machine and want to try it. Can I do a check once the clubs are all assembled? For what it's worth...I talked with Chris Voshall one time about Pureing shafts, and he said that with today's technology, it wasn't really worth it, particularly with irons. I'll know real soon if something is off, I'm fairly sensitive to varying weights and flexes. I wish I could hit anything good, but just can't.

No, it's done with a 205g tip weight.  An iron head will make things all kind of wonky since the orientation will change as you twang/rotate the shaft.  Personally, I haven't seen too much variation in CPMs in the ones I have experimented with but that's just one person's experience.  The meters are never all that cheap, so it's hard to justify unless you work with a ton of P-tip shafts and build on slopes a lot IMO.  I have one, but found one cheap when I wasn't really hunting for one and didn't have any time constraints or needs to purchase.  Gonna be honest, I hardly use it for 95% of builds.  If I were you, since you don't have the equipment, I would just FLO and move on...but just one person's thoughts.

The whole spine, FLOing, Pureing debate has been going on for years, everyone has their own opinions and at least around here the debates just go in circles.  Best advice I can give is just to follow your own ways, if you think it matters then have it all done, if you think it doesn't then press on and don't look back.
TM Supertri V2 w/ AD DI (Testing a new one that's on probation)
Callaway 3Deep w/ 73 BB or Stage 2 3W w/ 73 BB
Stage 2 3H w/ i80 Steelfiber
Callaway Apex UT 21* w/ i80 Steelfiber
Callaway X Prototype MBs 4-PW w/ Steelfiber AMI 99s
Callaway MD3 52* & 58* PM grind (both X100 8 iron SS)
Odyssey MXM 1W

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#34 Strolf

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 04:14 PM

View PostGolfrnut, on 09 January 2018 - 04:10 PM, said:

View PostStrolf, on 09 January 2018 - 04:02 PM, said:

View PostGolfrnut, on 09 January 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

View PostStrolf, on 09 January 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

View PostStuart G., on 09 January 2018 - 05:01 AM, said:

Nice posts! Minor point though - not going to hurt anything using it but you're wasting your time with a bearing based spine finder. They can be very inaccurate and unreliable. If you are concerned about spines (and I'm not implying you should be), then just jump right to FLO. But finding the spine with FLO also requires a frequency check to differentiate FLO from NBP.
Would love to learn more on this. I've heard these shafts are sooo good that frequency checking is pointless (along with added cost for me as a home builder).
Nothing really too fancy about it, more time consuming than hard. You just freq check them but do so multiple times while rotating the shaft in increments to find the weak/strong side of the shaft using CPMs as opposed to the deflection using the spine finder. From there you can FLO just to verify the oscillations are uniform and not wobbling all over the place. Whether the juice is worth the squeeze will come down to personal preference.
Thanks, I've been searching for an affordable frequency machine and want to try it. Can I do a check once the clubs are all assembled? For what it's worth...I talked with Chris Voshall one time about Pureing shafts, and he said that with today's technology, it wasn't really worth it, particularly with irons. I'll know real soon if something is off, I'm fairly sensitive to varying weights and flexes. I wish I could hit anything good, but just can't.

No, it's done with a 205g tip weight.  An iron head will make things all kind of wonky since the orientation will change as you twang/rotate the shaft.  Personally, I haven't seen too much variation in CPMs in the ones I have experimented with but that's just one person's experience.  The meters are never all that cheap, so it's hard to justify unless you work with a ton of P-tip shafts and build on slopes a lot IMO.  I have one, but found one cheap when I wasn't really hunting for one and didn't have any time constraints or needs to purchase.  Gonna be honest, I hardly use it for 95% of builds.  If I were you, since you don't have the equipment, I would just FLO and move on...but just one person's thoughts.

The whole spine, FLOing, Pureing debate has been going on for years, everyone has their own opinions and at least around here the debates just go in circles.  Best advice I can give is just to follow your own ways, if you think it matters then have it all done, if you think it doesn't then press on and don't look back.

Thanks for the sage advice.  I'm just trying to spread some knowledge and learn something.  If people want to ask questions or learn from me, that's great, if others want to critique without solutions, well that's just not nice.  :)

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#35 wkuo3

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 05:19 PM

View PostStrolf, on 09 January 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

View Postwkuo3, on 09 January 2018 - 02:49 PM, said:

View PostStrolf, on 09 January 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

View Postwkuo3, on 09 January 2018 - 09:01 AM, said:

Don't bother,  before you try to move these kind of weight to get your spec and probably ended up not getting the best result......send them to me before you start.. LOL .

Seriously, I don't know if the custom ordered spec ( weight of heads ) outside of the custom made for the Touring Pro.  Decades ago, there were a few will make spec to the order, one was from Japan.......

My understanding speaking with the rep is that the Tour Dept. is the same department that sent me these heads.  I didn't specify that they be extra heavy, but probably couldn't have gotten them 10+g heavy across the set.  They actually use very large tip weights that they wouldn't send.  URG!  Thanks for the suggestion on Tungsten powder...didn't want to go there, but I guess that's where I'm going.

If you don't want to add a lot of tip weight or lead tape to get what you want, you'll need to reduce the weight of the shaft.
In that case I could take the Oban shafts off your hands............. LOL

My downswing aggressiveness would disagree.  I need weight.

Was just kidding about it !
Never had the pleasure of trying out the Oban steel, please post your final make and field test.


5

#36 Stuart G.

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 04:52 AM

View PostStrolf, on 09 January 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

View PostStuart G., on 09 January 2018 - 05:01 AM, said:

Nice posts!

Minor point though - not going to hurt anything using it but you're wasting your time with a bearing based spine finder.  They can be very inaccurate and unreliable.  If you are concerned about spines (and I'm not implying you should be), then just jump right to FLO.  But finding the spine with FLO also requires a frequency check to differentiate FLO from NBP.

Would love to learn more on this.  I've heard these shafts are sooo good that frequency checking is pointless (along with added cost for me as a home builder).

Yes, many newer shafts (particularly steel) have very low amounts of asymmetry making alignment pointless even for the most picky of builders.  I personally have my own doubts concerning the various spine alignment 'theorys' even when there is asymmetry - but that's a different topic for a different thread.

Tutelman's site is a great resource on many aspects of the science of golf.

Here is the specific page discussing the different methods of finding spines:

https://www.tutelman...boutSpines2.php

Overall he has 8 pages on various aspects of shaft spines - use the left/right arrows at the top of the page to scroll though them or the 'Article Contents' links on the left side of the page.

6

#37 Stuart G.

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 04:59 AM

View PostGolfrnut, on 09 January 2018 - 04:10 PM, said:

No, it's done with a 205g tip weight.  An iron head will make things all kind of wonky since the orientation will change as you twang/rotate the shaft.

Not according to Tutelman's test results.  Actual head vs a tip weight makes no difference in finding the FLO planes.

7

#38 Golfrnut

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 07:44 AM

View PostStuart G., on 10 January 2018 - 04:59 AM, said:

View PostGolfrnut, on 09 January 2018 - 04:10 PM, said:

No, it's done with a 205g tip weight.  An iron head will make things all kind of wonky since the orientation will change as you twang/rotate the shaft.

Not according to Tutelman's test results.  Actual head vs a tip weight makes no difference in finding the FLO planes.

I've never had the success he has apparently had doing it with the head installed.  I guess maybe if you happen to hit it right the first time or a better way than I have done with the past to secure a non-epoxied head.  Bouncing in line with the face plane has worked for me but not perpendicular to it.  Once the head is permanently installed though, it defeats a lot of the purpose.
TM Supertri V2 w/ AD DI (Testing a new one that's on probation)
Callaway 3Deep w/ 73 BB or Stage 2 3W w/ 73 BB
Stage 2 3H w/ i80 Steelfiber
Callaway Apex UT 21* w/ i80 Steelfiber
Callaway X Prototype MBs 4-PW w/ Steelfiber AMI 99s
Callaway MD3 52* & 58* PM grind (both X100 8 iron SS)
Odyssey MXM 1W

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#39 Stuart G.

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 07:54 AM

View PostGolfrnut, on 10 January 2018 - 07:44 AM, said:

I've never had the success he has apparently had doing it with the head installed.  I guess maybe if you happen to hit it right the first time or a better way than I have done with the past to secure a non-epoxied head.  Bouncing in line with the face plane has worked for me but not perpendicular to it.  
Once the head is permanently installed though, it defeats a lot of the purpose.

I've never bothered even trying to FLO - so can't really provide any additional insight either way.  I was just pointing out what I read.

View PostGolfrnut, on 10 January 2018 - 07:44 AM, said:

Once the head is permanently installed though, it defeats a lot of the purpose.

Very true.   But Howard used to frequently explain how he used fish line to get the head mounted securely on the shaft in a temporary way when he was doing any type of frequency matching.

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#40 Golfrnut

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 08:05 AM

View PostStuart G., on 10 January 2018 - 07:54 AM, said:

Very true.   But Howard used to frequently explain how he used fish line to get the head mounted securely on the shaft in a temporary way when he was doing any type of frequency matching.

I tried the fishing line after seeing the recommendation from him, I failed at it miserably.  :)   Gave that and unwaxed dental floss a shot.

TM Supertri V2 w/ AD DI (Testing a new one that's on probation)
Callaway 3Deep w/ 73 BB or Stage 2 3W w/ 73 BB
Stage 2 3H w/ i80 Steelfiber
Callaway Apex UT 21* w/ i80 Steelfiber
Callaway X Prototype MBs 4-PW w/ Steelfiber AMI 99s
Callaway MD3 52* & 58* PM grind (both X100 8 iron SS)
Odyssey MXM 1W

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#41 Stuart G.

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 08:13 AM

Maybe it was the wrong line test  :taunt:

Never tried it - just a thought - what about a few wraps of the teflon plumbers sealant tape?

Edited by Stuart G., 10 January 2018 - 08:14 AM.


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#42 JCAG

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 11:15 AM

View PostStuart G., on 10 January 2018 - 08:13 AM, said:

Maybe it was the wrong line test  :taunt:

Never tried it - just a thought - what about a few wraps of the teflon plumbers sealant tape?

Try bubble wrap. The thickness seems to do the trick.

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#43 Strolf

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 11:42 AM

View PostStuart G., on 10 January 2018 - 04:52 AM, said:

View PostStrolf, on 09 January 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

View PostStuart G., on 09 January 2018 - 05:01 AM, said:

Nice posts!

Minor point though - not going to hurt anything using it but you're wasting your time with a bearing based spine finder.  They can be very inaccurate and unreliable.  If you are concerned about spines (and I'm not implying you should be), then just jump right to FLO.  But finding the spine with FLO also requires a frequency check to differentiate FLO from NBP.

Would love to learn more on this.  I've heard these shafts are sooo good that frequency checking is pointless (along with added cost for me as a home builder).

Yes, many newer shafts (particularly steel) have very low amounts of asymmetry making alignment pointless even for the most picky of builders.  I personally have my own doubts concerning the various spine alignment 'theorys' even when there is asymmetry - but that's a different topic for a different thread.

Tutelman's site is a great resource on many aspects of the science of golf.

Here is the specific page discussing the different methods of finding spines:

https://www.tutelman...boutSpines2.php

Overall he has 8 pages on various aspects of shaft spines - use the left/right arrows at the top of the page to scroll though them or the 'Article Contents' links on the left side of the page.

Great stuff here.  Thank you.  After reading this article, what I observed makes a little more sense, I think?

So these Oban Steel shafts have no seam, they are extruded like pasta.  When I "felt" the spine, it was in the exact same spot for all of them based on where the sticker identifying the length was on the butt end of the shaft.  Gives me a little more confidence that I didn't screw things up too much. :superman: Additionally, the FLO of all of these was a very straight line which gives me a tad more confidence that I got things correct, or at least more correct than just throwing the shafts in the heads.  I do have some questions:

I didn't quite understand the difference between the spine and the NBP, and I didn't "feel" it with the spine finder.  I can either reread the Tutelman stuff, or maybe one of you guys can give me the quick answer of how to tell the difference without a Frequency machine.  Thanks in advance.  

BTW, got the hosels installed (they were the toughest I've ever done) and glued up all the heads with the spine pointed to target.

13

#44 Stuart G.

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 12:07 PM

View PostStrolf, on 10 January 2018 - 11:42 AM, said:

View PostStuart G., on 10 January 2018 - 04:52 AM, said:

View PostStrolf, on 09 January 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

View PostStuart G., on 09 January 2018 - 05:01 AM, said:

Nice posts!

Minor point though - not going to hurt anything using it but you're wasting your time with a bearing based spine finder.  They can be very inaccurate and unreliable.  If you are concerned about spines (and I'm not implying you should be), then just jump right to FLO.  But finding the spine with FLO also requires a frequency check to differentiate FLO from NBP.

Would love to learn more on this.  I've heard these shafts are sooo good that frequency checking is pointless (along with added cost for me as a home builder).

Yes, many newer shafts (particularly steel) have very low amounts of asymmetry making alignment pointless even for the most picky of builders.  I personally have my own doubts concerning the various spine alignment 'theorys' even when there is asymmetry - but that's a different topic for a different thread.

Tutelman's site is a great resource on many aspects of the science of golf.

Here is the specific page discussing the different methods of finding spines:

https://www.tutelman...boutSpines2.php

Overall he has 8 pages on various aspects of shaft spines - use the left/right arrows at the top of the page to scroll though them or the 'Article Contents' links on the left side of the page.

Great stuff here.  Thank you.  After reading this article, what I observed makes a little more sense, I think?

So these Oban Steel shafts have no seam, they are extruded like pasta.  When I "felt" the spine, it was in the exact same spot for all of them based on where the sticker identifying the length was on the butt end of the shaft.  Gives me a little more confidence that I didn't screw things up too much. :superman: Additionally, the FLO of all of these was a very straight line which gives me a tad more confidence that I got things correct, or at least more correct than just throwing the shafts in the heads.  I do have some questions:

I didn't quite understand the difference between the spine and the NBP, and I didn't "feel" it with the spine finder.  I can either reread the Tutelman stuff, or maybe one of you guys can give me the quick answer of how to tell the difference without a Frequency machine.  Thanks in advance.  

BTW, got the hosels installed (they were the toughest I've ever done) and glued up all the heads with the spine pointed to target.

Actually, that's a little bit out of date (not the science but some of the comments on the manufacturing techniques).  Steel shaft manufacturing has improved to the point that no steel shafts have seems anymore that have any influence on a potential spine.  If the spine does exist, they come more from (very small) variations in the wall thickness that might occur during the extrusion.

Spine vs NBP - I'd read the tutelman page (a page or two before the one on the bearing finder) but the short answer is as follows: Basically any asymmetrical strength will result in a strong axis and a weak axis that are 90* offset from each other.  Both will give a good FLO though so that's why you need to measure the frequency to tell the difference.

Edited by Stuart G., 10 January 2018 - 12:08 PM.


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#45 Strolf

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:18 PM

Got the shafts epoxied in and ferrules turned last night. I donít have a great ferrule turning belt so I did it manually. Not ideal but it worked out good. Fourteen ferrules are very stubborn getting in the shaft I must say. Pics soon


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#46 ncglfr

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 04:14 PM

Good stuff...thanks for detailing.

Question - how do you know how much weight you'll need to add during the dry build if you haven't gripped and cut to length yet?

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#47 Strolf

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:19 PM

View Postncglfr, on 11 January 2018 - 04:14 PM, said:

Good stuff...thanks for detailing.

Question - how do you know how much weight you'll need to add during the dry build if you haven't gripped and cut to length yet?

I cut everything to length and use a cut grip and lead tape the weight of the tape on the butt end.

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#48 Strolf

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:32 PM

Gents,

Having some issues nailing down swing weight of D3.0 which is my starting point for the 6-iron.  I'm using an old grip that weighs exactly the same as the grip I'm using for the 6 iron.  I'm also using some lead tape that weighs exactly the same as the grip tape.  Then I put the club in the SW scale and place some lead tape down on the hosel where I think the weight will end up just below the ferrule.  I've been lightly hanging lead tape in a loop over the hosel and not sticking it on (Need to use ~12-15g on each club).

1.  First time, I did a dry SW and got C7.0.  I made a quick calculation of how much weight would get me to D3.0 and added that down on the hosel.  Then I put the Tungsten powder down the shaft and reweighed but kept coming up short vs. what I thought it should be.  So I added enough powder in the club before the cork went in and it weighed D3.0.  I go to put the real grip on and it came out D6 or something ridiculous.  I realized that I miscalculated the weight of my grip tape.  Damn it. Pulled the head, put on new ferrule and started over.
2.  Second time...Redid my grip tape weight to the two wraps I'm using.  I had everything all dry weighted to D3.0 and and added tungsten.  I got it all together and had it totally perfect, it was spot on D3.0...but I forgot to put the cork in.  :angry22:  
3.  Third time...I'm fuming now, tore the club all apart again, re-weighted and put the cork back in.  D4.7ish.  Whaaaat?

I will admit, this is my first time using tungsten powder, and I'm not a fan so far.  What the heck am I missing?  How do you guys figure out how much weight to use, and where to put the test weight?  I must be doing something totally bassackwards?

18

#49 Stuart G.

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 04:50 AM

1. why use a test weight at all?   I wouldn't call myself an expert with the stuff - 95% of my iron shaft work is with graphite - and the powder down the shaft doesn't work so well w/ graphite shafts.    So my approach has always been a bit on the simpler side (but it always has seemed to work fairly well the few times I've needed it).  
  • tape the cork to the hosel on the outside,
  • measure SW,
  • add an amount of powder down the shaft based on how fare the SW reading is out,  (make sure to work the powder down to the tip)
  • re-measure SW,
  • repeat until you got the desired SW
  • then put the cork down the shaft to finalize.  (having it taped to the hosel makes it easy not to forget).

Also, when doing this I find it easier to do these iterations w/o the split grips.  Removing and reinstalling the split grip to add powder is a pain and can also lead to some error if you don't always get the grip back on in an identical fashion.    Just measure SW with the split grip, remove and remeasure noting the difference.  Then use that to figure the target w/o a grip - typically it's about 9 SW pts different.  e.g. I might target E1 instead of D2.


2. why do you keep pulling/reinstalling the heads when it doesn't work out?   The one big benefit of the powder/cork method is that you can use it to adjust SW without having to pull and reinstall the heads.   Just remove the cork from the butt end side, dump out the old powder and start again.  You shouldn't have to touch the heads.

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#50 ncglfr

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:40 AM

View PostStrolf, on 11 January 2018 - 11:19 PM, said:

View Postncglfr, on 11 January 2018 - 04:14 PM, said:

Good stuff...thanks for detailing.

Question - how do you know how much weight you'll need to add during the dry build if you haven't gripped and cut to length yet?

I cut everything to length and use a cut grip and lead tape the weight of the tape on the butt end.

Gotcha...so they're already cut to length...that's the part I must've misread.  Thanks!


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#51 Strolf

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 12:21 PM

View Postncglfr, on 11 January 2018 - 04:14 PM, said:

Good stuff...thanks for detailing.

Question - how do you know how much weight you'll need to add during the dry build if you haven't gripped and cut to length yet?

So I've cut a few shafts with my chop saw before and I can never get them perfect. I decided to get a little more anal. I got a length measuring ruler from GolfMechanix where you can dial in the Lie (original pics of tools) and measured each raw club BEFORE gluing together. I marked each shaft with a sharpie, then marked the finish length.
Then I moved to a metric ruler and subtracted 5mm...because a 1/4" is too much. :).
3934BA29-12E0-4FA4-B265-891EB3DA60AE.jpeg
Next I scored each cut line with a hacksaw.
1 - 1 (3).jpg
That way I can bring the chopsaw blade down to where it catches on the score line, holding the shaft down while tightening the shaft to the saw rail. You gotta keep your finger off the trigger for this step.
1 - 2 (3).jpg
Fast forward to epoxy (no pics it's really not that exciting) and ferrule finishing. I want to get a cloth belt to make this step easier in the future. I found some cool sand paper that is pretty tuff. 150 then 320, then Acetone (cloth belt gets the ferrule a little more polished vs. acetone in my experience)
1 - 3 (3).jpg

Attached Thumbnails

  • 35CE44C4-FDFA-467B-9DD4-467D529A24D0.jpeg

Edited by Strolf, 13 January 2018 - 01:11 AM.


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#52 Redpro

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 04:36 PM

View PostStrolf, on 05 January 2018 - 11:57 AM, said:

View PostRedpro, on 05 January 2018 - 08:47 AM, said:

You're not crazy, this is WRX. You are normal. :)

I played many rounds at Harding Park before they decided to save it and renovate it. Pretty rough shape, but great design and layout! Don't live there anymore, am in the DFW area now.

I'm really looking forward to following this build!

What Evnroll putter do you have?

:)

32.5" ER1 Stock Grip, Around 375g headweight

Frequency analyzers and other inexpensive golf building tools.
http://www.csfa.com/accessories.php

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#53 Strolf

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 01:40 AM

So I got to the bottom of the issue I was having.  When I would set up the SW scale with the club without the grip on, I moved the shaft to touch the back of the scale.  It finally hit me when I noticed everything was off by ~1.5 SW points which is pretty darn close to the thickness of the grip butt of 5mm (using the 1/2" = 3 swing weight point rule of thumb). So I had to take some weight out of two of the clubs I built.  When I did, there was going to be no way to get the tungsten powder back up in the shaft with any degree of precision.  (didn't want to remove grips and the cork and all that jazz).  I was trying to get the MOI perfect.

To perfectly MOI match a set you'll want to thank PineWood Derby competitors.  Tungsten Putty. It's great because you can place the putty on the club, roughly where it will sit in the hosel/shaft, and then test MOI.  Then you can get it up in the shaft (pushing it to the sides with a scratch awl) then retest.  
1 - 5 (3).jpg
Note: Ferrule not finished in this shot!  :)
1 - 4 (3).jpg

It is sticky enough to stick to the sides of the inside of the shaft if you don't have enough to have a full slug in there, and hopefully won't move around.  What I like about it is that I can have the grip on (cork down in the shaft a reasonable distance) and push in enough Tungsten Putty to get the MOI perfect.  The risk I might have had would have been if it things weren't all snug up in there when I put everything together, Or if the cork was too low if I needed to upweight a club.  I got lucky this time, and everything fit okay.

To redo the 6-iron that was D4.5, I pulled the head, poured out the tungsten powder, and put back in the tungsten putty.  
This is super important because the 6-iron at D3 was what Joe Kwok fit me for, and I was building the MOI matched set off of that club.  

Bang ON D3.
1 - 6 (3).jpg

I think if I had to get perfect weights all over again, here's the process I would follow to SW or MOI match the set:
1.  Dry fit everything with the hosel on, sans grip, but with the tape you're going to use on the shaft (grip sticks nice to it).
2.  Put club in SW or MOI scale and use the tungsten putty like silly putty to get the weighting absolutely perfect.
4.  Roll the tungsten into a cylinder that will fit perfectly up the shaft.  
5.  Measure the length of the tungsten you  just estimated in #4, and add a little extra
6.  Push a cork down to where you can still get the tungsten and a touch extra in.
7.  Put the grip on
9.  Retest your weighting and adjust as necessary (account for 0.2 g or so for epoxy)
10. Glue it up and Test again...adjust if necessary

Will warm up and hit each club this weekend,  then repost the original spreadsheet with the data all filled in.  MOI's were +/- 1 or 2 MOI unites across irons 4-GW, and same for SW and LW which have a slightly higher MOI.  SW are ~0.5 SW from club to 4-GW
1 - 8 (3).jpg

Edited by Strolf, 13 January 2018 - 01:42 AM.


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#54 Strolf

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 01:44 AM

One more little gem showed up today, can't wait to get after it.

Rogue SZ 9.0 Tensei Orange 70 TX  

1 - 7 (3).jpg

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#55 Redpro

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 06:46 AM

Amazing process! Truly hope that tungsten putty works well in the shafts and does not move. Ingenious! :)


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#56 ncglfr

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 03:58 PM

View PostStrolf, on 13 January 2018 - 01:44 AM, said:

One more little gem showed up today, can't wait to get after it.

Rogue SZ 9.0 Tensei Orange 70 TX  

Attachment 1 - 7 (3).jpg

Thanks for all the details and interesting idea w/ the tungsten putty.  I just switched to Recoil (my first graphite irons) and taper tip graphite is def a bit harder to work with to get SW dialed in with weights.  

Any issue with air getting trapped while epoxying the club heads?

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#57 Strolf

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 04:09 PM

View Postncglfr, on 13 January 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:

View PostStrolf, on 13 January 2018 - 01:44 AM, said:

One more little gem showed up today, can't wait to get after it.

Rogue SZ 9.0 Tensei Orange 70 TX  

Attachment 1 - 7 (3).jpg

Thanks for all the details and interesting idea w/ the tungsten putty.  I just switched to Recoil (my first graphite irons) and taper tip graphite is def a bit harder to work with to get SW dialed in with weights.  

Any issue with air getting trapped while epoxying the club heads?

I lost a little sleep last night thinking that the air might be a problem. But they weee fine this am

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#58 ncglfr

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 04:14 PM

View PostStrolf, on 13 January 2018 - 04:09 PM, said:

View Postncglfr, on 13 January 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:

View PostStrolf, on 13 January 2018 - 01:44 AM, said:

One more little gem showed up today, can't wait to get after it.

Rogue SZ 9.0 Tensei Orange 70 TX  

Attachment 1 - 7 (3).jpg

Thanks for all the details and interesting idea w/ the tungsten putty.  I just switched to Recoil (my first graphite irons) and taper tip graphite is def a bit harder to work with to get SW dialed in with weights.  

Any issue with air getting trapped while epoxying the club heads?

I lost a little sleep last night thinking that the air might be a problem. But they weee fine this am

Good to know.  Air was a bit of an issue w/ my reshaft as I used graphite tip weights from golfworks...they have a small little channel, but no hole thru the weight.  Anyway, a little back and forth and twisting pushed most of the air out, but then I literally had to hold the shaft and head together for a good minute or so and eventually all the air worked it's way out.  Added a bit of time to the job b/c I had to mix more batches of epoxy than normal, but no big deal.

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#59 Strolf

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 07:15 PM

Update, hit a ton of shots today.  I would say each iron is 1/2 to 1 club longer.  I don't know how, but the ball speeds are just a touch faster than my current Mizunos with PX 6.0s.  ONE BIG Problemo...
1 - 2 (4).jpg
1 - 1 (4).jpg

I am 100% certain I prepped the tip properly.  I was actually a little worried that I didn't get them rough enough.  There was a slight amount of chrome still on them is spots.  

Can you guys think what might have caused this?  Defective shafts?  Wrong Prep?  Too much weight in hosel (only ~15-18gs)?

Going to start a new post on subject.

Edited by Strolf, 13 January 2018 - 07:16 PM.


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#60 Stuart G.

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 04:40 AM

Is that one of the shafts you repeatedly pulled and reinstalled trying to get the SW right?

Unlike graphite, usually steel shafts are fairly robust when it comes to pulling but they are not completely immune to problems.  The amount of heat is not an issue (like w/ graphite) but too much force/pressure in the wrong direction can potentially damage and weaken any tubular structure,.   And once it starts, it doesn't take much to go from a small amount of damage to complete failure when hitting balls.

Of course, it's also certainly possible it was a manufacturing defect.   Unfortunately no way to really tell what might have been the cause.

Edited by Stuart G., 14 January 2018 - 04:40 AM.


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