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Blue Printing First Set of Clubs: Completed; Tools, Measurements, ShaftPrep

MOI Swingweight Length

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#1 Strolf

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 12:43 AM

My Experience:  Back in 2003, I ran the club building department for Golfsmith in Chicago.  I have built & repaired more golf clubs than most guys who do a little tinkering (started back when bore through shafts were still a thing).  I've fit a number of golfers, and messed around with equipment quite a bit...but I've never built myself a set to exacting specs like I plan on doing in the coming weeks and will publish on Golf WRX.  

I got Fit:  While I've fit a number of golfers over the years, and have been fit at Club Champion for my full set, I wanted to double check my specs with the latest equipment.  I'm also hyper sensitive and want to make sure that I've checked out all the options that are out there.  

So I went to Joe Kwok who lives down the road from me to get the ultimate expert opinion on what I needed.  The experience didn't disappoint, and Joe was fantastic.   Some highlights:
  • I'm an aggressive swinger and need a stiffer tip in my irons & woods
  • My PX 6.0s are really comparable to Xtra Stiff in other shafts, and weren't giving me the feel I need in irons.
  • Joe recommended a better feeling iron shaft, Oban Steel, that really helped ball speed 123 to 127 with 6-iron (Joe's numbers were different than mine because he uses FlightScope)
  • Counterbalance driver shaft really helped my consistency
  • Epic Driver much more forgiving than 915 D2
  • Fell in love with some FH 900 heads too (I have the heads already, and they are really beautiful...pics to come)  Fourteen guys are great, and I just opened an account.  I plan on building for guys...if interested, and you know your specs send me a note for pricing on Fourteen/Mizuno or for MOI matching.  
I also know that Joe would build a great set for me, but I told Joe I wanted to build my own clubs, call me crazy...but I know I can do it.  I'm going to try and walk you guys through my build over the course of the coming days/weeks.  

My Sticks:  I've been playing the same set of clubs since 2014, and have made some small tweaks over time to get them to fit me.  This year I tweaked the weights to MOI match the set (see table for details).  Putter is pretty darn perfect, so I won't be futzin around with that.  I'm a single digit Handicap, and I hit my irons pretty well, but I'm not a perfect ball striker. I don't play as often as I'd like, would like a little more forgiveness and find shafts that fit my swing a little better, and all the other excuses golfers use to get new sticks.  

Started the year off right with a round at TPC Harding Park.  Here's the full set that helped me shoot a 41 on the front with two three putt holes, and let's not talk about the back, but I blame my driver.  :)  
1 - 1.jpg
This is pretty much what most of my irons look like.  Some bag marks, some lead tape, MOI matched, etc. (stats in table)
1 - 9.jpg
Data is coming from a calibrated ES16 Tour.  This is a fantastic Launch Monitor.  Now there was a learning curve, and I've had to spend some time on the phone with the Ernest folks, but I'm confident the numbers in the following table and the distances I see on course are real close.  If anything, the ES16 has me a little shorter than I am on a course anywhere else in the country at sea level 70 degrees.  BUT, because I play at TPC Harding Park here in SF most of the time, the numbers are really close to what I experience here at home.
1 - 7.jpg
Here are all my stats and distances of my current set along with what Joe fit me for.  Note that distances and spin are not included for the new set until built and tested on ES16.  These are average strikes really, some longer, some shorter.  Also note, Wedge MOI & Driver MOI's aren't as consistent as irons...I am plan on fixing this, but may do some experimenting along the way with weights before the build.
ClubStat_Before.png
TOOLS: Below are all the tools I'm going to be using to build the set.  I am also going to build a shaft cutting jig because when I use my chop saw to trim shafts that are tapered, the cuts aren't perfectly square.  Call me crazy, but my blueprinting is going to be as perfect as possible.  

MOI & Dial Calipers to measure heads and weights.
1 - 8.jpg
Mitchell Loft Lie Machine SteelClub from early 2000s I believe.  
1 - 4.jpg
I like to compare SW to MOI to make sure I have a nice progression of SW.  I also am going to use SW in the spreadsheet I'll be using along with some calcs.  
1 - 5.jpg
Last Tool is a measurement tool so I can have consistent measurements across the set.
1 - 6.jpg

Edited by Strolf, 07 January 2018 - 08:07 PM.


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#2 Redpro

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 08:47 AM

You're not crazy, this is WRX. You are normal. :)

I played many rounds at Harding Park before they decided to save it and renovate it. Pretty rough shape, but great design and layout! Don't live there anymore, am in the DFW area now.

I'm really looking forward to following this build!

What Evnroll putter do you have?

:)

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#3 sdandrea

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 08:52 AM

Your post proves what a lightweight hack I am at club building.  I  quit. 😁

Cool project, sweet tools.  Keep us posted!
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#4 Strolf

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 11:57 AM

View PostRedpro, on 05 January 2018 - 08:47 AM, said:

You're not crazy, this is WRX. You are normal. :)

I played many rounds at Harding Park before they decided to save it and renovate it. Pretty rough shape, but great design and layout! Don't live there anymore, am in the DFW area now.

I'm really looking forward to following this build!

What Evnroll putter do you have?

:)

32.5" ER1 Stock Grip, Around 375g headweight

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#5 r7superquad

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 12:01 PM

I'm interested in all the steps as well. Good luck with the build


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#6 r7superquad

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 12:08 PM

I'll add this too, I'm fortunate enough to have a lot of the tools mentioned here, aside from a launch monitor (on my list tho), do you plan on using a frequency machine at to use on the shafts. I know it will bring up a shaft debate, but thought I'd ask.

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#7 Strolf

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 12:23 PM

View Postr7superquad, on 05 January 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

I'll add this too, I'm fortunate enough to have a lot of the tools mentioned here, aside from a launch monitor (on my list tho), do you plan on using a frequency machine at to use on the shafts. I know it will bring up a shaft debate, but thought I'd ask.

Ah Frequency...Yes, I considered it, but after reading a ton of stuff from Tom Wishon and others, I didn't think the cost of the machine was worth the effort.  Maybe if I get a bunch of orders to build MOI matched & BluePrinted sets, I could afford one.  :)

Also, researching the Oban Steel shafts, I found that the quality is pretty tremendous, and didn't think there would be a measurable benefit.  However, If anyone would like to help out here and is in SF, I would love to have the option to see where the frequencies come out.

Would also love to hear input from others.

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#8 r7superquad

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 12:41 PM

View PostStrolf, on 05 January 2018 - 12:23 PM, said:

View Postr7superquad, on 05 January 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

I'll add this too, I'm fortunate enough to have a lot of the tools mentioned here, aside from a launch monitor (on my list tho), do you plan on using a frequency machine at to use on the shafts. I know it will bring up a shaft debate, but thought I'd ask.

Ah Frequency...Yes, I considered it, but after reading a ton of stuff from Tom Wishon and others, I didn't think the cost of the machine was worth the effort.  Maybe if I get a bunch of orders to build MOI matched & BluePrinted sets, I could afford one.  :)

Also, researching the Oban Steel shafts, I found that the quality is pretty tremendous, and didn't think there would be a measurable benefit.  However, If anyone would like to help out here and is in SF, I would love to have the option to see where the frequencies come out.

Would also love to hear input from others.

Fair enough on the frequency of the shafts. I would think the Oban steel are very consistent and play true. Bend profiles and the shaft weight are important based on the advice from Tom Wishon, so I agree with you there, but there's always gonna be the question of to frequency or not to frequency match.

The best part about you, or anyone else who tinkers and whatnot, is you can do as much or as little as you want to build the clubs the way you want to.

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#9 Carvallo Golf

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 09:20 PM

View PostStrolf, on 05 January 2018 - 12:23 PM, said:

View Postr7superquad, on 05 January 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

I'll add this too, I'm fortunate enough to have a lot of the tools mentioned here, aside from a launch monitor (on my list tho), do you plan on using a frequency machine at to use on the shafts. I know it will bring up a shaft debate, but thought I'd ask.

Ah Frequency...Yes, I considered it, but after reading a ton of stuff from Tom Wishon and others, I didn't think the cost of the machine was worth the effort.  Maybe if I get a bunch of orders to build MOI matched & BluePrinted sets, I could afford one.  :)

Also, researching the Oban Steel shafts, I found that the quality is pretty tremendous, and didn't think there would be a measurable benefit.  However, If anyone would like to help out here and is in SF, I would love to have the option to see where the frequencies come out.

Would also love to hear input from others.

I use my frequency meter mostly to analyze existing clubs/sets for abnormalities/improvements, before assembly of new shafts to make sure there aren't any major abnormalities, and as a final QC on finished clubs/sets to make sure there aren't any major abnormalities.  It's just another tool, not the holy grail of club building.  If I didn't get one cheap from a bankruptcy situation, I wouldn't have one either.


Great choices on the shop gear, I also like to use SW and MOI side by side.
Current WITB:
Driver: Taylormade R7 TP 8.5
Fwy Woods: new woods in process for next season
Irons: new set in process for next season
Wedges: Taylormade Tour Issue EF 54&60 deg w/TT DG X100
Putter: Slotline HMI w/Superstroke Slim 3.0
Ball: TP5 (bye bye bridgestone)

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#10 Redpro

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 10:54 PM

View PostStrolf, on 05 January 2018 - 11:57 AM, said:

View PostRedpro, on 05 January 2018 - 08:47 AM, said:

You're not crazy, this is WRX. You are normal. :)

I played many rounds at Harding Park before they decided to save it and renovate it. Pretty rough shape, but great design and layout! Don't live there anymore, am in the DFW area now.

I'm really looking forward to following this build!

What Evnroll putter do you have?

:)

32.5" ER1 Stock Grip, Around 375g headweight

I had the ER2, then switched to the ER5 Hatchback . . . love the roll!


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#11 Strolf

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 02:11 PM

Most parts are here. Waiting for tip weights. Heads are really nice, and these shafts ainít too bade either. 😬
E7752337-1916-4065-92F0-CB49A4BBDD9E.jpeg
DAC2B4D6-7F7C-432F-BCBB-6AF4763016A8.jpeg
B4520D35-D14F-4E81-89B2-D80A4C5109C9.jpeg

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#12 Cwebb

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 02:22 PM

Is that a typo for the MOI of your Lw in the first spreadsheet?  In looking at the length and swing weight, a 2595 MOI is really low. Should it be 2695?

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#13 Strolf

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 02:29 PM

I think youíre right 2695

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#14 Strolf

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 07:09 PM

Starting the "Build Clock" so I know how long this takes...Weighing all the components; heads, shafts, grips, ferrules took 30 Minutes.  

Next up, once the tip weights arrive, is to trim shafts (need tip weight so I know how much shorter to trim butt) and find the spines before assembly.  

1 - 8 (1).jpg
1 - 9 (1).jpg


Also forgot to show spine finder and Flo laser...never used these items, and interested to see how it works out.

1 - 12.jpg

Attached Thumbnails

  • 1 - 11 (1).jpg


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#15 Strolf

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 08:30 PM

Started estimating MOI and checking on what weights I might need .  

UPDATED Table...I measured the balance point of each shaft which really brought down my SW and the MOI up from previous table.  

Using spreadsheet from Monte.

Untitled.png

Edited by Strolf, 06 January 2018 - 10:38 PM.


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#16 HitaHouse

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 09:58 PM

Thanks for posting this, it will be interesting seeing how all this goes.  A few questions for you that I always have in my amateur projects.  It appears that you are going to cut shafts to length before assembling.  Do you cut them all to exact lengths - or adjust the lengths to try to accommodate bottom of bore dimension discrepancies?   Do you set the ferrules to the same depth ?

What do you do with grip weights?  I put the lighter ones on the shorter irons.

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#17 Strolf

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 10:34 PM

View PostHitaHouse, on 06 January 2018 - 09:58 PM, said:

Thanks for posting this, it will be interesting seeing how all this goes.  A few questions for you that I always have in my amateur projects.  It appears that you are going to cut shafts to length before assembling.  Do you cut them all to exact lengths - or adjust the lengths to try to accommodate bottom of bore dimension discrepancies?   Do you set the ferrules to the same depth ?

What do you do with grip weights?  I put the lighter ones on the shorter irons.

I'll dry fit all the shafts with weights so that I can account for the weight sticking out of the bottom of the shaft, then cut.  Then I'll add or take weight away (usually same amount sticks out for heavier weights that I need to use).  I will set ferrules for each iron when I dry fit.  These bad boys are pretty tight and will stay put.  

Grips are specific to each iron yes...I haven't gotten that far ahead.  :)  But I'm thinking that I'll put each grip on and dry fit everything and then simply change tip weights.

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#18 Strolf

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 08:29 PM

Updated Build Clock:
30 Minutes - Weighing Components; heads, shafts, grips, ferrules took
60 Minutes - Dialing in Loft & Lie to my specs (50% of Lie angles were off
15 Minutes - Spine all 10-shafts
10 Minutes - Flow all 10-shafts
15 Minutes - Tip Prep

I make sure that the scoring lines are level, then check each loft/lie and bend to my specs (FH900 Std Loft, ~2-Flat)  Use Mitchell Steelclub.  This step is a little nerve-racking with a new set of irons, but the Mitchell pry bar does a pretty good job of keeping the heads mark free.
1 - 2 (2).jpg
1 - 3 (2).jpg
1 - 1 (2).jpg

Using a simple spine finder to get all the spines and mark them.  
1 - 4 (2).jpg

I put the spine to the target, then check FLO.
1 - 6 (2).jpg

I then twang each shaft in the shot direction.  Goal is to get a red laser line that is a straight line.  :)  An oval would be bad.  These shafts all produced a straight line when I put the spine towards the target.
1 - 8 (2).jpg

Prepped all the shafts with this little belt sander attachment.  It's called the Multi-Tool, and Jet makes it.
1 - 9 (2).jpg

Cleaned up and ready for the weights to arrive, set MOI, trim shafts, and grip.  
1 - 10 (2).jpg

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#19 Golfrnut

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 10:49 PM

I personally would not be bending with either no shaft installed or one only dry fit, makes it much easier to deform the hosels that way.
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#20 apprenti23

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 11:26 PM

I hope you picked up a calibration club from Tom wishon so that you can ensure your Mitchell and SW scales are spot on. Could be pretty catastrophic


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#21 Strolf

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 03:38 PM

View Postapprenti23, on 07 January 2018 - 11:26 PM, said:

I hope you picked up a calibration club from Tom wishon so that you can ensure your Mitchell and SW scales are spot on. Could be pretty catastrophic

Thanks for the heads up for future sets!  This was a machine that had very light use, and I have done several sets on it, so I know that the lofts/lies I'm dialing in at least work for me.

Edited by Strolf, 08 January 2018 - 03:41 PM.


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#22 Strolf

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 03:40 PM

View PostGolfrnut, on 07 January 2018 - 10:49 PM, said:

I personally would not be bending with either no shaft installed or one only dry fit, makes it much easier to deform the hosels that way.

Maybe, if I eat my Wheaties and bend the heck out of the hosel aggressively...but these are taper tipped, they were a very tight fit, and I went really slow and methodical.  If I'd rather have the right loft/lie when doing SW and MOI.

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#23 Strolf

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 11:42 PM

I didn't know this, but Fourteen weights their heads progressively which is good and bad.  Good in that the longer irons aren't too heavy, so I don't need to remove weight.  Bad in that I need to add some serious weight to get my specs.  Here are the weights I need to add to the tip.  Reading up on the affect of weight on the tip/hosel, these are well within the allowable weight.  i.e. CG won't be affected.

My question is, how do I get this much weight in the tip outside of lead tape?  Heaviest tip weights I've seen are 10g; do you guys know anyone who sells a 14 or 12g weight.  How can I adjust if I'm a little off... :)  
Weights g LW 6.68 SW 5.17 GW PW 8.65 9I 12.63 8I 12.13 7I 10.14 6I 11.35 5I 9.87 4I 9.25

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#24 Golfrnut

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 12:33 AM

Tungsten powder and cork on top of the tip weights or just tungsten powder alone.
TM Supertri V2 w/ AD DI (Testing a new one that's on probation)
Callaway 3Deep w/ 73 BB or Stage 2 3W w/ 73 BB
Stage 2 3H w/ i80 Steelfiber
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Callaway MD3 52* & 58* PM grind (both X100 8 iron SS)
Odyssey MXM 1W

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#25 Stuart G.

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 05:01 AM

Nice posts!

Minor point though - not going to hurt anything using it but you're wasting your time with a bearing based spine finder.  They can be very inaccurate and unreliable.  If you are concerned about spines (and I'm not implying you should be), then just jump right to FLO.  But finding the spine with FLO also requires a frequency check to differentiate FLO from NBP.


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#26 wkuo3

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 09:01 AM

Don't bother,  before you try to move these kind of weight to get your spec and probably ended up not getting the best result......send them to me before you start.. LOL .

Seriously, I don't know if the custom ordered spec ( weight of heads ) outside of the custom made for the Touring Pro.  Decades ago, there were a few will make spec to the order, one was from Japan.......

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#27 Strolf

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 02:34 PM

View Postwkuo3, on 09 January 2018 - 09:01 AM, said:

Don't bother,  before you try to move these kind of weight to get your spec and probably ended up not getting the best result......send them to me before you start.. LOL .

Seriously, I don't know if the custom ordered spec ( weight of heads ) outside of the custom made for the Touring Pro.  Decades ago, there were a few will make spec to the order, one was from Japan.......

My understanding speaking with the rep is that the Tour Dept. is the same department that sent me these heads.  I didn't specify that they be extra heavy, but probably couldn't have gotten them 10+g heavy across the set.  They actually use very large tip weights that they wouldn't send.  URG!  Thanks for the suggestion on Tungsten powder...didn't want to go there, but I guess that's where I'm going.

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#28 Strolf

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 02:35 PM

View PostStuart G., on 09 January 2018 - 05:01 AM, said:

Nice posts!

Minor point though - not going to hurt anything using it but you're wasting your time with a bearing based spine finder.  They can be very inaccurate and unreliable.  If you are concerned about spines (and I'm not implying you should be), then just jump right to FLO.  But finding the spine with FLO also requires a frequency check to differentiate FLO from NBP.

Would love to learn more on this.  I've heard these shafts are sooo good that frequency checking is pointless (along with added cost for me as a home builder).

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#29 wkuo3

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 02:49 PM

View PostStrolf, on 09 January 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

View Postwkuo3, on 09 January 2018 - 09:01 AM, said:

Don't bother,  before you try to move these kind of weight to get your spec and probably ended up not getting the best result......send them to me before you start.. LOL .

Seriously, I don't know if the custom ordered spec ( weight of heads ) outside of the custom made for the Touring Pro.  Decades ago, there were a few will make spec to the order, one was from Japan.......

My understanding speaking with the rep is that the Tour Dept. is the same department that sent me these heads.  I didn't specify that they be extra heavy, but probably couldn't have gotten them 10+g heavy across the set.  They actually use very large tip weights that they wouldn't send.  URG!  Thanks for the suggestion on Tungsten powder...didn't want to go there, but I guess that's where I'm going.

If you don't want to add a lot of tip weight or lead tape to get what you want, you'll need to reduce the weight of the shaft.
In that case I could take the Oban shafts off your hands............. LOL

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#30 Strolf

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 03:44 PM

View Postwkuo3, on 09 January 2018 - 02:49 PM, said:

View PostStrolf, on 09 January 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

View Postwkuo3, on 09 January 2018 - 09:01 AM, said:

Don't bother,  before you try to move these kind of weight to get your spec and probably ended up not getting the best result......send them to me before you start.. LOL .

Seriously, I don't know if the custom ordered spec ( weight of heads ) outside of the custom made for the Touring Pro.  Decades ago, there were a few will make spec to the order, one was from Japan.......

My understanding speaking with the rep is that the Tour Dept. is the same department that sent me these heads.  I didn't specify that they be extra heavy, but probably couldn't have gotten them 10+g heavy across the set.  They actually use very large tip weights that they wouldn't send.  URG!  Thanks for the suggestion on Tungsten powder...didn't want to go there, but I guess that's where I'm going.

If you don't want to add a lot of tip weight or lead tape to get what you want, you'll need to reduce the weight of the shaft.
In that case I could take the Oban shafts off your hands............. LOL

My downswing aggressiveness would disagree.  I need weight.


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