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Streamsong Black


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#31 Brizam

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 11:02 AM

All of this makes me think I'd rather go back to Bandon than go to Streamsong... I'm cool with that.


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#32 jerebear21

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 01:19 PM

View PostBrizam, on 29 December 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

All of this makes me think I'd rather go back to Bandon than go to Streamsong... I'm cool with that.

You go ahead and do that but I’ll be playing the black this weekend in 65 degrees while half the country is in sub temperature.

Nothing wrong with contours or humps and bumps and strategy. You just got to go yourself. Some of the complex is borderline unfair and unplayable.

And until we hear it from the architect himself I doubt the greens were extended from the fairway. It’s that huge.
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#33 nix

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 04:15 PM

So this course makes good golfers upset that golf isn't easy. I love it already.

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#34 Chile Dip Master

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 05:12 PM

View PostBrizam, on 29 December 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

All of this makes me think I'd rather go back to Bandon than go to Streamsong... I'm cool with that.

24/7/365 on that...!

Played one time at Streamsong while in Florida for work. Red-Blue are very good tracks....rest of that place and how treated as a "day guest"  for golf... yea I told myself I will never go back... and we almost did again...

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#35 Chile Dip Master

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 05:18 PM

Had lunch with the friends today who played the BLACK....both praised Red/Blue  So asked them would they play Black again. They said yes...shocked me honestly based on how they talk about it. Both stand by the greens need to be re worked.  

I asked could they see a PGA event there, instant response of "no way not with those greens and its too forgiving from the tee".

As we continued having a few "holiday cocktail's" both have the same opinion reflecting on it, the courses only defense is the greens.

Edit: Again I have not played black, but these two are excellent golfers.

Edited by Chile Dip Master, 29 December 2017 - 05:22 PM.


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#36 DrSchteeve

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 06:47 PM

View Postklebs01, on 28 December 2017 - 11:31 AM, said:

View Postvallygolf, on 28 December 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

Sounds super fun, I better get out there to play it before the war drums become so loud they have to change it.  Im always a sucker for a challenge like this, but you have to have a "shot by shot" mentality and enjoy each stupid shot for what it is, rather than a "whats my score" mentality.  At least it sounds like it plays like a links course.  The Blue IMO has no possibility to be played as a links course and poorly designed greens to boot.  Red is awesome.  I wasnt planning to go back to streamsong, but now it seems I need to get out there soon.

Iím with you. These comments make it sound like a great course. I need to get there and play it before the course is ruined. Iím really tired of one dimensional, penal dark ages courses. Itís nice to see strategy and the ground game returning.

How in the world do goofy Putt Putt greens translate into a great course?
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#37 DrSchteeve

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 06:51 PM

View Postnix, on 29 December 2017 - 04:15 PM, said:

So this course makes good golfers upset that golf isn't easy. I love it already.

It sounds more like good golfers saying the greens are silly and the course doesnít present a good challenge where good golf shots are rewarded appropriately. There are plenty of very good very difficult courses that good golfers respect - think Beth Page Black or Merion. This doesnít sound like those at all.
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#38 Tap-in Fore Eagle

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 08:35 PM

View PostDrSchteeve, on 29 December 2017 - 06:51 PM, said:

View Postnix, on 29 December 2017 - 04:15 PM, said:

So this course makes good golfers upset that golf isn't easy. I love it already.

It sounds more like good golfers saying the greens are silly and the course doesn’t present a good challenge where good golf shots are rewarded appropriately. There are plenty of very good very difficult courses that good golfers respect - think Beth Page Black or Merion. This doesn’t sound like those at all.
I think the courses are rated difficult for different reasons, I have not played at Streamsong yet, but I have played Bethpage.

Bethpage is extremely difficult from tee to green with the highest rough I've ever played, but it seemed like half of the greens were just round disks with minimal undulation. After playing Pinehurst #2, I said that if Bethpage had the same greens as Pinehurst it would universally be regarded as the hardest course in the world, but it might already be, lol.

Streamsong Black seems to be the opposite. Easy from tee to green, but the potential for 3, 4, 5 putts are common. I think that would turn the average golfer off more than difficult approach and tee shots. Even if it takes 3 shots to reach the green on a par 4, you can still have a relatively easy two putt for bogey. Were as with Streamsong Black you can reach the green in 2 shots but walk off with a double...

I love target golf and quirky/weird/unique courses, so Streamsong Black sounds right up my alley. But I'd understand why others would walk off and not enjoy the experience.
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#39 youraway2

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 08:37 PM

View Postkrtgolfing, on 29 December 2017 - 10:39 AM, said:

I am hoping to get down in the summertime to play all 3 courses. All about those cheap rates!
July, August?  No trees, no shade, 100% humidity, no wind movement; have fun.  Pick Spring or early summer.

Edited by youraway2, 30 December 2017 - 05:54 PM.


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#40 klebs01

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 09:36 PM

View PostDrSchteeve, on 29 December 2017 - 06:47 PM, said:

View Postklebs01, on 28 December 2017 - 11:31 AM, said:

View Postvallygolf, on 28 December 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

Sounds super fun, I better get out there to play it before the war drums become so loud they have to change it.  Im always a sucker for a challenge like this, but you have to have a "shot by shot" mentality and enjoy each stupid shot for what it is, rather than a "whats my score" mentality.  At least it sounds like it plays like a links course.  The Blue IMO has no possibility to be played as a links course and poorly designed greens to boot.  Red is awesome.  I wasnt planning to go back to streamsong, but now it seems I need to get out there soon.

Iím with you. These comments make it sound like a great course. I need to get there and play it before the course is ruined. Iím really tired of one dimensional, penal dark ages courses. Itís nice to see strategy and the ground game returning.

How in the world do goofy Putt Putt greens translate into a great course?

I donít believe they are truly putt putt but are simply not the easy greens people are used to. Width is a good thing and rough, trees, ob, and water are way overrated. I really appreciate a course where being in the fairway isnít nearly as important as the angle into the green. That being on the green isnít any where near a simple 2 putt. This is good golf. The penal design people on this site demand is boring. Itís the same shots day after day. Courses like the black (as described) are interesting because each day the best shots are different because the pin is different.

I donít get the complaint about the greens being large and difficult. If the were smaller but The mounds cut at fairway height, would that make it better? Why? You missed and are out of position. Why should the recovery be easy?


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#41 FairwayFred

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 10:14 PM

 klebs01, on 29 December 2017 - 09:36 PM, said:

 DrSchteeve, on 29 December 2017 - 06:47 PM, said:

 klebs01, on 28 December 2017 - 11:31 AM, said:

 vallygolf, on 28 December 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

Sounds super fun, I better get out there to play it before the war drums become so loud they have to change it.  Im always a sucker for a challenge like this, but you have to have a "shot by shot" mentality and enjoy each stupid shot for what it is, rather than a "whats my score" mentality.  At least it sounds like it plays like a links course.  The Blue IMO has no possibility to be played as a links course and poorly designed greens to boot.  Red is awesome.  I wasnt planning to go back to streamsong, but now it seems I need to get out there soon.

Iím with you. These comments make it sound like a great course. I need to get there and play it before the course is ruined. Iím really tired of one dimensional, penal dark ages courses. Itís nice to see strategy and the ground game returning.

How in the world do goofy Putt Putt greens translate into a great course?

I donít believe they are truly putt putt but are simply not the easy greens people are used to. Width is a good thing and rough, trees, ob, and water are way overrated. I really appreciate a course where being in the fairway isnít nearly as important as the angle into the green. That being on the green isnít any where near a simple 2 putt. This is good golf. The penal design people on this site demand is boring. Itís the same shots day after day. Courses like the black (as described) are interesting because each day the best shots are different because the pin is different.

I donít get the complaint about the greens being large and difficult. If the were smaller but The mounds cut at fairway height, would that make it better? Why? You missed and are out of position. Why should the recovery be easy?

I think your missing the mark w what people are saying.  I have not played the Black but I know quite a few people who have who hate the penal design school you describe.  They enjoy wide fairways and challenging greens and everything you describe.  Almost all of the disliked Black.  The Red and Blue are well liked but it seems the Black has taken it too far.  Extremely wide fairways are good if there is an advantage for being on one side or the other.  Extremely wide fairways just for width sake can be boring and repetitive.  Greens that are way over the top and impossible to putt aren't fun.  There is a fine line and it sounds to me like Black is on the other side of that line.  That said I will still go down and play it so I can see for myself.  I hope I love it and my impressions are wrong.

Edited by FairwayFred, 29 December 2017 - 10:15 PM.

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#42 az2au

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 11:36 PM

 DrSchteeve, on 29 December 2017 - 06:51 PM, said:

 nix, on 29 December 2017 - 04:15 PM, said:

So this course makes good golfers upset that golf isn't easy. I love it already.

It sounds more like good golfers saying the greens are silly and the course doesnít present a good challenge where good golf shots are rewarded appropriately. There are plenty of very good very difficult courses that good golfers respect - think Beth Page Black or Merion. This doesnít sound like those at all.
I generally find that to mean that a low handicap is bitter because they donít shoot what they expect and they want to pout about how the course is unfair. Iíd have to see it for myself but thatís my bet.

Edited by az2au, 29 December 2017 - 11:37 PM.


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#43 CMCSGolf

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 12:17 AM

 FairwayFred, on 29 December 2017 - 10:14 PM, said:

 klebs01, on 29 December 2017 - 09:36 PM, said:

 DrSchteeve, on 29 December 2017 - 06:47 PM, said:

 klebs01, on 28 December 2017 - 11:31 AM, said:

 vallygolf, on 28 December 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

Sounds super fun, I better get out there to play it before the war drums become so loud they have to change it.  Im always a sucker for a challenge like this, but you have to have a "shot by shot" mentality and enjoy each stupid shot for what it is, rather than a "whats my score" mentality.  At least it sounds like it plays like a links course.  The Blue IMO has no possibility to be played as a links course and poorly designed greens to boot.  Red is awesome.  I wasnt planning to go back to streamsong, but now it seems I need to get out there soon.

I'm with you. These comments make it sound like a great course. I need to get there and play it before the course is ruined. I'm really tired of one dimensional, penal dark ages courses. It's nice to see strategy and the ground game returning.

How in the world do goofy Putt Putt greens translate into a great course?

I don't believe they are truly putt putt but are simply not the easy greens people are used to. Width is a good thing and rough, trees, ob, and water are way overrated. I really appreciate a course where being in the fairway isn't nearly as important as the angle into the green. That being on the green isn't any where near a simple 2 putt. This is good golf. The penal design people on this site demand is boring. It's the same shots day after day. Courses like the black (as described) are interesting because each day the best shots are different because the pin is different.

I don't get the complaint about the greens being large and difficult. If the were smaller but The mounds cut at fairway height, would that make it better? Why? You missed and are out of position. Why should the recovery be easy?

I think your missing the mark w what people are saying.  I have not played the Black but I know quite a few people who have who hate the penal design school you describe.  They enjoy wide fairways and challenging greens and everything you describe.  Almost all of the disliked Black.  The Red and Blue are well liked but it seems the Black has taken it too far.  Extremely wide fairways are good if there is an advantage for being on one side or the other.  Extremely wide fairways just for width sake can be boring and repetitive.  Greens that are way over the top and impossible to putt aren't fun.  There is a fine line and it sounds to me like Black is on the other side of that line.  That said I will still go down and play it so I can see for myself.  I hope I love it and my impressions are wrong.

I also haven't played it, so I am speculating... but I doubt it is width for width's sake.  With greens as tough as they sound, I'm guessing the proper angle of approach is necessary to get to the right spots on these impossible greens.  You can hit it anywhere off the tee, but being on the proper segment of the 100 yard wide fairway is the only way to get it close to the pin.  The lack of defined rough makes it hard to find where the proper spot off the tee is and the massive undulating greens might mean the proper spot off the tee changes from round to round.  

Like I said, I haven't played the black, but I would be stunned if a thoughtful architect like Hanse designed a course that could not be played with properly planned shots.  Since this course is resort golf where people play once and hit the road, I can see it being very frustrating on a one time play where it looks like you can hit it anywhere off the tee, only to be punished with a tough approach.  Just because you are in the fairway, doesn't mean it's a good spot to be.  This is an idea that violates the average golfer's idea of what good golf is, so I think that drives some of the criticism.  With that being said, it seems like the greens might still be a little too much...

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#44 FairwayFred

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 06:34 AM

IMO Gil Hanse is a big disappointment. He does great restoration work but his original courses all leave something to be desired.
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#45 krtgolfing

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 07:03 AM

 youraway2, on 29 December 2017 - 08:37 PM, said:

 krtgolfing, on 29 December 2017 - 10:39 AM, said:

I am hoping to get down in the summertime to play all 3 courses. All about those cheap rates!
July, August?  Not trees, no shade, 100% humidity, no wind movement; have fun.  Pick Spring or early summer.

Iím used to the heat and humidity. So nothing to worry about.

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#46 outgolfing

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 04:34 PM

I just played the "Black" course on 12/27/17.  I had mixed feelings about it.  First off I only payed $99.00 which was a special they had for Florida residents over Christmas/New Years.  My group of 4 walked and used their pull carts (you can't bring your own I'm told.)  I really enjoyed the front 9 of the course, the back not so much.  I think as a group we only lost 2 or 3 golf balls, the fairways are expansive and there are not a lot of hazards where you'd lose a ball.  The greens are ginormous...too big in my opinion and there are so many undulations it makes some putts nearly impossible.  Course conditions were great, tee boxes to greens were in fantastic condition.  The club house is small and is only a small pro shop, restrooms, and a restaurant/bar.  Staff was friendly.  We did not utilize a caddy even though the staff recommended one numerous times, I don't feel we really missed out not having one.  

I have played the Blue before and if I was going back to play I would stick to the Blue or Red.  They are more interesting courses and not so punishing on the greens.  All in all for $99 we all had a great time, even though we were beat by the end of the round.
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#47 jerebear21

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 12:25 PM

Posted Image

Live at the punch bowl. Two putt for par from there.

Greens down to about 9-10. Super playable. After the 2nd time I’m perfectly ok with recommending the course. Red and blue is still my preferred.
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#48 2putttom

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 12:59 PM

 jerebear21, on 01 January 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

Posted Image

Live at the punch bowl. Two putt for par from there.

Greens down to about 9-10. Super playable. After the 2nd time I’m perfectly ok with recommending the course. Red and blue is still my preferred.
great post..looks a tad breezy. Be sure to post on the first round of 2018 thread.. looks like fun.

Edited by 2putttom, 01 January 2018 - 01:29 PM.

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#49 Barracuda

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 03:29 PM

My friends hated black. I did not pay it. I am not really a fan of streamsong, red is overrated, blue is much better imo.

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#50 bluejeeprubi

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 06:19 PM

Headed out next Monday to play the black.  Played red and blue a few times and enjoyed them both.  Iím sure black will be a fun experience.  

Hard not to give it a chance with the holiday rates.

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#51 Andrew Bond of Glencoe

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 11:46 PM

I will be playing the Black for the third consecutive time to Streamsong in the next couple of weeks. Not because it is my favorite - Red and Blue are better overall courses, but itís possible that from the tee up until the greens that the Black is the best of the three.

I get a kick out of some of the comments. I will respond to a couple of them.

-> a Green canít be too big- itís not possible.
-> The greens are a bit insane zero doubt. My biggest issue was the lack of variety of the greens. Too many greens have severe Left to Right Break. I think variety is needed. I love the 9th green but the 15th May be the worst designed green in the history of golf.
Hanse literally put a damn ďHĒ across the green. He signed his name on the green!
-> Someone said that a great golf course should be controversial- that people should love it and hate it. Ummmm no- how many people have played and hate Pine Valley, Cypress Point, Augusta National, Shinnecock, Oakmont etc?

The Black is a fun course. The first time I played it i walked off the course saying I would never play it again. Then I played it a second time and I disliked it less and took the time to appreciate the layout and took some notes on the greens.

I think the caddies have to LOVE THIS COURSE. Why? Because you need a caddy to help you with the greens.

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#52 carrera

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 01:15 AM

 Andrew Bond of Glencoe, on 02 January 2018 - 11:46 PM, said:

I think the caddies have to LOVE THIS COURSE. Why? Because you need a caddy to help you with the greens.

So they would get more loops?  I think most caddies would prefer an easier course for their players, both on and off the greens.  Pointing out difficult lines and speeds for "average" players all day would get old.

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#53 CMCSGolf

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:04 PM

 Andrew Bond of Glencoe, on 02 January 2018 - 11:46 PM, said:

-> Someone said that a great golf course should be controversial- that people should love it and hate it. Ummmm no- how many people have played and hate Pine Valley, Cypress Point, Augusta National, Shinnecock, Oakmont etc?


I'm not sure if this was directed at my post or not because I did not say this exactly, but I disagree with it either way.  Many of the greatest golf courses are quite divisive.  There are people who say The Old Course is a boring cow pasture. Many people think Pine Valley is much too difficult of a golf course to be fun for an average golfer (same for Oakmont).  If the the greens at Augusta were built today, people would call them ridiculous and putt putt-like.  There is a lot of history and fame at all of these places, but I don't think they are universally loved.  And I think opinions would be a lot more diverse on these courses if it were't so ingrained in us to conform and love what the magazines say we should love.

Also, many of the great courses were tweaked over time to become the versions we see today.  To think Augusta or the TOC started out perfect if false.  I don't think a bad course every became great with some later tweaks, but golf courses evolve and we should keep that in mind when something new opens up and is compared to a course that has had a century to figure out what works and doesn't work.

Edited by CMCSGolf, 03 January 2018 - 02:07 PM.


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#54 raynorfan1

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:20 PM

 CMCSGolf, on 03 January 2018 - 02:04 PM, said:

 Andrew Bond of Glencoe, on 02 January 2018 - 11:46 PM, said:

-> Someone said that a great golf course should be controversial- that people should love it and hate it. Ummmm no- how many people have played and hate Pine Valley, Cypress Point, Augusta National, Shinnecock, Oakmont etc?


I'm not sure if this was directed at my post or not because I did not say this exactly, but I disagree with it either way.  Many of the greatest golf courses are quite divisive.  There are people who say The Old Course is a boring cow pasture. Many people think Pine Valley is much too difficult of a golf course to be fun for an average golfer (same for Oakmont).  If the the greens at Augusta were built today, people would call them ridiculous and putt putt-like.  There is a lot of history and fame at all of these places, but I don't think they are universally loved.  And I think opinions would be a lot more diverse on these courses if it were't so ingrained in us to conform and love what the magazines say we should love.

Also, many of the great courses were tweaked over time to become the versions we see today.  To think Augusta or the TOC started out perfect if false.  I don't think a bad course every became great with some later tweaks, but golf courses evolve and we should keep that in mind when something new opens up and is compared to a course that has had a century to figure out what works and doesn't work.

Strongly agree with this sentiment. A lot of what we admire about the "great" golf courses would be very poorly received if the course didn't bring its reputation to the table. Imagine if a new resort course built the Road Hole? Or Hell's Half Acre? The reviews would not be good.

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#55 DrSchteeve

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 04:38 PM

But let's not fall into the trap of thinking that because a course is controversial, that makes it a great course.

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#56 vallygolf

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 04:44 PM

 DrSchteeve, on 03 January 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

But let's not fall into the trap of thinking that because a course is controversial, that makes it a great course.




But lets not fall into the trap of thinking that because a course we have never played has so called putt putt greens panned by some, that it makes it a bad course.

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#57 DrSchteeve

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 05:28 PM

 vallygolf, on 03 January 2018 - 04:44 PM, said:

 DrSchteeve, on 03 January 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

But let's not fall into the trap of thinking that because a course is controversial, that makes it a great course.

Can you name a great course with Putt Putt greens?




But lets not fall into the trap of thinking that because a course we have never played has so called putt putt greens panned by some, that it makes it a bad course.

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#58 raynorfan1

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 05:51 PM

 DrSchteeve, on 03 January 2018 - 05:28 PM, said:

 vallygolf, on 03 January 2018 - 04:44 PM, said:

 DrSchteeve, on 03 January 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

But let's not fall into the trap of thinking that because a course is controversial, that makes it a great course.

Can you name a great course with Putt Putt greens?




But lets not fall into the trap of thinking that because a course we have never played has so called putt putt greens panned by some, that it makes it a bad course.

Oakmont.

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#59 DrSchteeve

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 07:04 PM

 raynorfan1, on 03 January 2018 - 05:51 PM, said:

 DrSchteeve, on 03 January 2018 - 05:28 PM, said:

 vallygolf, on 03 January 2018 - 04:44 PM, said:

 DrSchteeve, on 03 January 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

But let's not fall into the trap of thinking that because a course is controversial, that makes it a great course.

Can you name a great course with Putt Putt greens?




But lets not fall into the trap of thinking that because a course we have never played has so called putt putt greens panned by some, that it makes it a bad course.

Oakmont.

Fair enough.
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#60 raynorfan1

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 07:21 PM

 DrSchteeve, on 03 January 2018 - 07:04 PM, said:

 raynorfan1, on 03 January 2018 - 05:51 PM, said:

 DrSchteeve, on 03 January 2018 - 05:28 PM, said:

 vallygolf, on 03 January 2018 - 04:44 PM, said:

 DrSchteeve, on 03 January 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

But let's not fall into the trap of thinking that because a course is controversial, that makes it a great course.

Can you name a great course with Putt Putt greens?




But lets not fall into the trap of thinking that because a course we have never played has so called putt putt greens panned by some, that it makes it a bad course.

Oakmont.

Fair enough.

In fairness, I canít name a second.

Maybe ANGC, but I donít know from personal experience.


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