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Streamsong Black


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#151 TheWalkingGolfer

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 11:50 AM

View Postjerebear21, on 26 April 2018 - 10:10 AM, said:

View PostTheWalkingGolfer, on 26 April 2018 - 09:45 AM, said:

Fishers is supposed to be the best Punchbowl in existence and if you need a partner at Fishers let me know :)

Fishers probably is but there's plenty of good examples out there.  I'd argue if the guys at Yale would put the punchbowl greens back to what it once was on hole4, that would be considered one of the best alps/punchbowl in golf.  It's a shame Yale doesn't know what they have.  Could be a top 25 course of all time IMHO.



That's a great hole too. Agreed, Yale could be Top 25, I gotta get back there again. It's not like the don't have the cash, the administration and chancellor need to understand what they have and its historical context. Seems like its well documented enough to have a proper restoration/update.


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#152 CMCSGolf

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 08:55 PM

View Postjerebear21, on 26 April 2018 - 06:52 AM, said:

View PostCMCSGolf, on 25 April 2018 - 11:53 PM, said:

Just because a course is wide open doesn't mean there isn't strategy.  I haven't played the Black, so can't comment specifically, but I would be a lot that the greens are much more approachable from certain angles. As wide as the course sounds and as wild as the greens are, I bet the pin placement can completely change the optimal way to play a hole for the day.

I know this is true of Hanse's Olympic course in Rio.

It's wide open.  Play it first then try to make an argument.  I like the Black course. No one here is crapping on it. The stretch on the back 9, 12-15 is just super quirky. I've played a lot of golden age punchbowl greens. This is more like a giant moon crater. Your ball can be stuck on a tier inside the crater and you wouldn't even know it. How is that fair Golf considering the blind shot aspect. Most of all punchbowls funnel to the middle. There's literally mountains inside this crater to keep the ball from funneling to the center. The first time I played the flag was on a tier. And if your ball does funnel to the center then you're essentially 3 putts.

It was only playable after they slowed the greens down. I live an hour away and play streamsong probavly 4-5 times a year since it opened. What's that 20+ time already? Heck I already been there threeX since the new year. Great facility. The black doesn't have a tee to green strategy. Maybe a couple holes but for the most part, wide open.

I wouldn't play the resort that much if I didn't like it. I love it. Doesn't mean it's not stupid. Haha

I agree and appreciate the response.  This hole might very well be too far and I don't know.  I was trying to make the more general point that just because a hole is wide, does not mean there isn't strategy.

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#153 jerebear21

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 07:36 AM

View PostCMCSGolf, on 26 April 2018 - 08:55 PM, said:

View Postjerebear21, on 26 April 2018 - 06:52 AM, said:

View PostCMCSGolf, on 25 April 2018 - 11:53 PM, said:

Just because a course is wide open doesn't mean there isn't strategy.  I haven't played the Black, so can't comment specifically, but I would be a lot that the greens are much more approachable from certain angles. As wide as the course sounds and as wild as the greens are, I bet the pin placement can completely change the optimal way to play a hole for the day.

I know this is true of Hanse's Olympic course in Rio.

It's wide open.  Play it first then try to make an argument.  I like the Black course. No one here is crapping on it. The stretch on the back 9, 12-15 is just super quirky. I've played a lot of golden age punchbowl greens. This is more like a giant moon crater. Your ball can be stuck on a tier inside the crater and you wouldn't even know it. How is that fair Golf considering the blind shot aspect. Most of all punchbowls funnel to the middle. There's literally mountains inside this crater to keep the ball from funneling to the center. The first time I played the flag was on a tier. And if your ball does funnel to the center then you're essentially 3 putts.

It was only playable after they slowed the greens down. I live an hour away and play streamsong probavly 4-5 times a year since it opened. What's that 20+ time already? Heck I already been there threeX since the new year. Great facility. The black doesn't have a tee to green strategy. Maybe a couple holes but for the most part, wide open.

I wouldn't play the resort that much if I didn't like it. I love it. Doesn't mean it's not stupid. Haha

I agree and appreciate the response.  This hole might very well be too far and I don't know.  I was trying to make the more general point that just because a hole is wide, does not mean there isn't strategy.

I know what you're saying; I wasn't disputing the fact that there are golf courses which architecturally looks wide open and forces you to pick the correct side. There are certain lines to take off the tee to make the approach easier but you're really at the mercy of the bounce onto the green at streamsong black.  Even if you're on the right side and you get a bad bounce you would still be 3 putting, which defeats the purpose of a correct tee shot in the first place.  

18th on the black is the only memorable hole for me where picking the correct side actually does make a difference;  Playing towards the right side of the edge and keeping it under 280 yards or so off the tee gives you 200 yards left to the par5.  Going pass that yardage and you're in a hidden sand bunker.  Taking the left side with a longer drive would give you a longer approach shot than a shorter tee shot on the right side.  The 18th at streamsong black is WORLD class and I always look forward to playing it.  

My issue with the quirky stretch on the back 9(13-15) is the limited landing spot on the greens.

Edited by jerebear21, 27 April 2018 - 07:39 AM.

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#154 payerasjl

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 09:41 AM

will be playing black this weekend, hope to try it out for myself and see what all the fuzz is about!

cheers
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#155 TheWalkingGolfer

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 02:46 PM

View Postpayerasjl, on 27 April 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

will be playing black this weekend, hope to try it out for myself and see what all the fuzz is about!

cheers

Looking forward to see what you think. Iíll shut up now so I donít give you a bad feel before playing.


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#156 teejaywhy

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 07:37 PM

The more I read about it being stupid, unfair and goofy, the more I want to play it.

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#157 gatorMD

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 09:20 PM

Ive played black and blue.  thought blue was better.  black is pretty wide open
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#158 payerasjl

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 09:25 PM

atleast i know the food is good!
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#159 CMCSGolf

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 12:22 AM

jerebere, that's a good clarifying point.  I'm pretty sure I have heard Doak talk about  the fact that he does not like when a good shot and bad shot are separated by only a few feet on the green.  Even if you take the correct strategy and hit a good approach given the day's pin, you might not be rewarded if a random slope kicks it into an impossible spot.  I agree, this would make the course tough to enjoy and negate a lot of the thinking that can be fun on a wide course.

Hopefully I'll get a chance to experience it soon.

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#160 jerebear21

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 07:33 AM

View PostCMCSGolf, on 28 April 2018 - 12:22 AM, said:

jerebere, that's a good clarifying point.  I'm pretty sure I have heard Doak talk about  the fact that he does not like when a good shot and bad shot are separated by only a few feet on the green.  Even if you take the correct strategy and hit a good approach given the day's pin, you might not be rewarded if a random slope kicks it into an impossible spot.  I agree, this would make the course tough to enjoy and negate a lot of the thinking that can be fun on a wide course.

Hopefully I'll get a chance to experience it soon.

did you buy his confidential books?  pretty cool.

Though I'm not a fan of his personality the guy does create some cool golf courses and he genuinely wants to make the game easier and fun for golfers.

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#161 vallygolf

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 08:57 AM

View PostCMCSGolf, on 28 April 2018 - 12:22 AM, said:

jerebere, that's a good clarifying point.  I'm pretty sure I have heard Doak talk about  the fact that he does not like when a good shot and bad shot are separated by only a few feet on the green.  Even if you take the correct strategy and hit a good approach given the day's pin, you might not be rewarded if a random slope kicks it into an impossible spot.  I agree, this would make the course tough to enjoy and negate a lot of the thinking that can be fun on a wide course.

Hopefully I'll get a chance to experience it soon.


Interesting by Doak, considering the blue course is rife with greens that good and bad shots are "seperated by only a few feet".  The blue course takes the ground game out.  It forces an aerial attack only, to greens that have 4 or 5 putting levels.  Not his best work.

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#162 TheWalkingGolfer

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 12:39 PM

View Postvallygolf, on 30 April 2018 - 08:57 AM, said:

View PostCMCSGolf, on 28 April 2018 - 12:22 AM, said:

jerebere, that's a good clarifying point.  I'm pretty sure I have heard Doak talk about  the fact that he does not like when a good shot and bad shot are separated by only a few feet on the green.  Even if you take the correct strategy and hit a good approach given the day's pin, you might not be rewarded if a random slope kicks it into an impossible spot.  I agree, this would make the course tough to enjoy and negate a lot of the thinking that can be fun on a wide course.

Hopefully I'll get a chance to experience it soon.


Interesting by Doak, considering the blue course is rife with greens that good and bad shots are "seperated by only a few feet".  The blue course takes the ground game out.  It forces an aerial attack only, to greens that have 4 or 5 putting levels.  Not his best work.

Not sure if I agree. I hit tons of ground shots when I played. First that comes mine was on 6 I hit a pitch from like 80 yards out that rolled half of the way to about 3í. Just because quite a few greens are elevated doesnít take the ground game away. I remember almost always having a way to get to the pin on the ground if you missed in the right spot. 18 basically begs you to hit one left and ride the slope right into the green.

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#163 Greg Lunday

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 01:27 PM

I played this course 2 days ago.  While it is still almost brand new, it does have promise.  Some of the greens are very severe and the "true green" is actually only a fraction of what is mowed.  It played very hard and very fast.  It became a challenge just to keep a ball in the fairway, much less on the green.  #2 may be the toughest short hole in the world with a tail wind and the pin on the right side.  There is absolutely no way to hold that green downwind.  

I did enjoy it though and would gladly play it again.  Although next time, I think I will give it a few years to mature and grow a bit more.  They did say they will be breaking ground on a new course there later this year and have plans for a 5th course as well.  

At this point in time, there is little doubt that the Red and Blue are much better courses.  But I do believe the Black will mature into a very nice 3rd course one day.

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#164 TheWalkingGolfer

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 01:33 PM

View PostGreg Lunday, on 04 May 2018 - 01:27 PM, said:

I played this course 2 days ago.  While it is still almost brand new, it does have promise.  Some of the greens are very severe and the "true green" is actually only a fraction of what is mowed.  It played very hard and very fast.  It became a challenge just to keep a ball in the fairway, much less on the green.  #2 may be the toughest short hole in the world with a tail wind and the pin on the right side.  There is absolutely no way to hold that green downwind.  

I did enjoy it though and would gladly play it again.  Although next time, I think I will give it a few years to mature and grow a bit more.  They did say they will be breaking ground on a new course there later this year and have plans for a 5th course as well.  

At this point in time, there is little doubt that the Red and Blue are much better courses.  But I do believe the Black will mature into a very nice 3rd course one day.

2 is impossible no matter what the wind direction is. Huge fronting bunker to a hard sloped green. Must be as far left as possible of the tee to have a chance.

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#165 AMM315

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Posted 09 May 2018 - 11:36 AM

Sitting on my flight home reflecting on the past three days, and each round over the three courses. I absolutely loved black. Canít believe how many things Iíve read/heard about quirky greens. I could see that if someone was playing for the first time, and did not utilize a caddy. Had we not been helped by one, I may have felt similar. My buddy and I had Ryan, and he was great. Love that this place also keeps the same caddy with you over the course of the trip. I shot my new low on black, so that probably helps it get the nod over red and blue. The Gauntlet and roundabout are awesome as well. Great way to add another element of fun to the experience. IMO Gil did a wonderful job with black. Canít wait to see what heís done with Pinehurst in a few weeks!


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#166 vallygolf

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 09:54 AM

Finally got my shot at the Black this week. After it has been panned and ripped by many as too severe, or putt putt, it was really fun to see if for myself.  This course is phenomenal. I get that many will find the greens very severe; however fairway placement off the tee is critical, and changes the shot into the greens substantially, and it took me three rounds to even begin to appreciate the nuances. Literally hundreds of ways to play each hole, similar to the red. Played the blue one time, still pretty much one way to play most holes requiring an atrial approach to wonky pins, not a fan. Two of my rounds on the Black were with a 10, 15, and 18 handicaps. Right now I play to about a 3. They all struggled around the greens, but really appreciated it for what it was and loved the course. I had one three putt each round, and yes they were because of really tricky putts downhill over 4-5 breaks......but all were a result of me having poor angles into greens due to badly placed tee balls. I donít get the hate for # 14. Itís only defense (as a 250ish par 4) is an incredibly difficult green. I played 3 wood all three days and made par birdie and bogey. Loved the course, hope they donít change a thing.

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#167 tiderider

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 09:07 PM

anyone complaining about the black doesn't understand that much about golf and/or the things it teaches you, to be honest ... they probably went to streamsong just so they could say they played a top ranked course ... there are no guarantees, a few holes give you surprises or even random results and you need to play it a few times to begin to master it ...

that's golf and that's life ...

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#168 jerebear21

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 11:14 AM

View Posttiderider, on 11 June 2018 - 09:07 PM, said:

anyone complaining about the black doesn't understand that much about golf and/or the things it teaches you, to be honest ... they probably went to streamsong just so they could say they played a top ranked course ... there are no guarantees, a few holes give you surprises or even random results and you need to play it a few times to begin to master it ...

that's golf and that's life ...

Uh talking about being on the extreme end of the spectrum. Iíve golf with those belonging to exclusives and they share the same sentiment. Itís not everyoneís cup of tea. Some will like it. Some will donít. Canít be forcing it onto some. I rather play red over and over again.
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#169 shackmangolf

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 11:47 AM

I've played Black twice. IMHO, it is a superb course that is super fun and makes you think a lot. It is a golf experience that you won't find elsewhere. I highly recommend it. You need to throw your pre-conceptions about a golf course out the window before you play it.

There is nothing unfair about the golf course. You can play each hole several different ways. Good shots are always rewarded.

That said, playing it only once is tough. You need to play it several times to appreciate how to play it and the lines needed to be successful. The front nine is one of the most creative set of golf holes  I've played. I like the back nine except 2 or 3 holes. This was echo'ed by the caddies I spoke to. At first, they were like WTF and now they are like - wow, we really appreciate it and love playing it.

My only beef with Black - It takes forever to play. You have a bunch of old people in the blazing sun on carts trying to get up and down tough slopes and it can easily take 5 plus hours. My suggestion to Streamsong would be to dis-allow carts and play would speed up 30 minutes. That is why caddies don't like looping Black - it takes too long. I carried my bag on one round and finished in 3:30.

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