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Streamsong Black


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#1 RBurl

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 07:18 AM

Just curious if anybody is hearing honest reviews for the new Streamsong course? All the golf media is slobbering over how great it is, but I'm hearing different. Yesterday was the third poor review (from three different groups from 4-12 players). All three groups say everyone in their group disliked it or even worse. Here are the things I'm hearing "At the resort the chatter is nobody is wanting to play it again, if they had a second tee time on it." "Caddie are trying to avoid getting rounds there." "Players walking off" on hole 11 or 12? because it's close to the resort rooms. "Really goofy set up."
I understand different strokes for different folks, but I can't remember a course that all 26 people that have played somewhere and all of them dislike to hate it.


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#2 krtgolfing

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 07:19 AM

Walking off after 11-12 holes after spending probably 300 dollars on golf. LOL!
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#3 dcmidnight

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 07:31 AM

I haven't heard or read one bad review on the place. Have had several friends play there that loved it - said the fairways are a mile wide and the greens are huge. The worst review I heard was one of them saying it was similar to the other two courses - which are both top 25 and I loved playing both of them.

So for me, I find it almost impossible to believe that 12 out of 12 people absolutely hated the course.
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#4 krzeczowskimatt

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 08:03 AM

http://www.golfwrx.c...reamsong-black/

check out this thread sounds about 50/50 split on like or not. The big thing seems to be people can not get over how difficult the greens are and the course is a brute to putt and score on.

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#5 jerebear21

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 08:26 AM

it's not a bad course at all; it's just a pain in the butt and there's no letting down.  Hole 17 and 18 are world class.  

I drove the green on the short par4-14 and 5 putted.  It was better to lay up and get a wedge in and maybe be lucky to 3-putt.  Don't expect scoring.

I'll be back to play the black New Years. Maybe I'll change my mind after playing a 2nd time.  It's just stupidly quirky.

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#6 krzeczowskimatt

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 08:39 AM

 jerebear21, on 27 December 2017 - 08:26 AM, said:

it's not a bad course at all; it's just a pain in the butt and there's no letting down.  Hole 17 and 18 are world class.  

I drove the green on the short par4-14 and 5 putted.  It was better to lay up and get a wedge in and maybe be lucky to 3-putt.  Don't expect scoring.

I'll be back to play the black New Years. Maybe I'll change my mind after playing a 2nd time.  It's just stupidly quirky.

Please let us know if you change your mind about the course a second time around. I was very much looking forward to the Black course opening but after a lot of what i have heard and read it just seems like blue and red are much better. I have only played the red and will hopefully get back there next year to play the blue and black.

Edited by krzeczowskimatt, 27 December 2017 - 08:39 AM.


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#7 raynorfan1

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 08:57 AM

I read either here or on GCA that Hanse had designed the greens to be defended / surrounded by big mounds, but that during grow-in, they decided to incorporate the mounds themselves into the greens. This made the greens both dramatically larger and more “crazy” than intended.

I think the psychology of it is interesting, because American golfers are so entitled to the idea of being able to two putt any time they “hit” a green - and in this case, you’re going to be scrambling on the green. Doesn’t surprise me that the results have been polarizing, but I’m looking forward to seeing it myself this winter.

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#8 TheWalkingGolfer

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 10:03 AM

 RBurl, on 27 December 2017 - 07:18 AM, said:

Just curious if anybody is hearing honest reviews for the new Streamsong course? All the golf media is slobbering over how great it is, but I'm hearing different. Yesterday was the third poor review (from three different groups from 4-12 players). All three groups say everyone in their group disliked it or even worse. Here are the things I'm hearing "At the resort the chatter is nobody is wanting to play it again, if they had a second tee time on it." "Caddie are trying to avoid getting rounds there." "Players walking off" on hole 11 or 12? because it's close to the resort rooms. "Really goofy set up."
I understand different strokes for different folks, but I can't remember a course that all 26 people that have played somewhere and all of them dislike to hate it.

I haven't heard anything as bad as this but yes I have heard it seems a little goofy. I had plans to play in April but now I'm thinking Red and Blue instead of Red and Black. From what I gather its the greens that have people questioning the course. Seems like an odd plan to blow the greens out to 3x the original size after the course was seeded and grown in (this is what is mentioned a few posts above about the mounds).

If you can get yourself in the mindset that tough/quirky recoveries and putts are going to be a common occurrence (not sure if that sounds fun) then you will probably enjoy it.

Edited by TheWalkingGolfer, 27 December 2017 - 10:05 AM.


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#9 sir_templar2

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 08:58 PM

I'm looking forward to playing Black in March, as I have already played Red & Blue.
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#10 Andrew Bond of Glencoe

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 10:49 PM

I have played the Black twice. Here is my honest take.
From the tee box to the greens the course is fantastic. There are however 6 greens that are a bit out of hand.

The 5th - am uphill Par 3 is a bit insane. The pin will always be on the far right of the green because the slope is so aggressive that the left side is unusable. To hit it close you aim to miss the green left and let the slope bring the ball down.

The 13th - more of an issue with the fairway than the greens, but there are two greens and both are a bit insane. The left green again is a miss left to get it close on the right.

The 14th - the drivable par 4 has the smallest usable green I have ever seen on a golf course. The usable green space is smaller than my dorm room back in college. The main issue is that this is a resort course and to have a bunch of people 5 putt or putt a ball off a green and into a bunker is horrific.

The 15th - One of the worst ideas in golf course architecture. Gil Hanse signed his initial into the green. When you play it take a look at the green and you will see he basically shaped the mounds into a giant “H”- terrible idea.

The 16th - Another green where the player wants to miss the green left because the slope is hard to the left.

The 17th- Do you see a pattern? Aim way left on the green because the break is hard left to right.

Some dislike the 9th which is an Alps hole- blind shot into a punch bowl green. I actually love this hole, because I love the Alps Hole at Prestwick.

If the greens were mellowed just a tad it could be the best course at Streamsong. I have been told by a caddy/ amateur golfer that the course still needs some time to soften which will help these odd greens.


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#11 jerebear21

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 08:10 AM

oh come on, there was more than one bad greens in the front 9

hole 1 par5 - their is a huge mound in the front of green so you couldn't see the 2 ft dip in difference of the tiers
hole 4, par5 - pin location that day was surrounded by little bumps and mounds within 10 ft
hole 5, par3 - that back left pin location was a hazard; going a touch too long and it funnels all the way to the back right
hole 6, par4 - read hole 4
hole 9, par4 - there are 2-3 feet of slope to differentiate between the tiers; for a punchbowl green you'd assume all the ball would funnel towards the center.  pin location that day was on one of the tiers; it's not bad per se; it was quirky when you can't see where the pin is and essentially taking a blind shot into one of the quadrant.  you're praying for this one.  

if the greens weren't so fast, it is somewhat playable; too bad they were just as fast as the red and blue. I'm hoping it'll soften up.
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#12 RBurl

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 08:21 AM

 jerebear21, on 28 December 2017 - 08:10 AM, said:

oh come on, there was more than one bad greens in the front 9

hole 1 par5 - their is a huge mound in the front of green so you couldn't see the 2 ft dip in difference of the tiers
hole 4, par5 - pin location that day was surrounded by little bumps and mounds within 10 ft
hole 5, par3 - that back left pin location was a hazard; going a touch too long and it funnels all the way to the back right
hole 6, par4 - read hole 4
hole 9, par4 - there are 2-3 feet of slope to differentiate between the tiers; for a punchbowl green you'd assume all the ball would funnel towards the center.  pin location that day was on one of the tiers; it's not bad per se; it was quirky when you can't see where the pin is and essentially taking a blind shot into one of the quadrant.  you're praying for this one.  

if the greens weren't so fast, it is somewhat playable; too bad they were just as fast as the red and blue. I'm hoping it'll soften up.

I've really heard the second par 5 (hole 4?) and the hole with two greens on the back (hole 13?) are the two worst holes they have ever played. Seems extreme, but they really went into detail. Anyway, I think I'll stick to the blue and red when I go down there in a month.  Thanks for all the help!

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#13 mwmgolfx

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 08:51 AM

The Red and the Blue are both fantastic and well worth their ratings.  However, I wouldn't say the same about the Black.  It's said that they wanted to set it up for tournaments, but with the greens the way they are there are not multiple pin locations on a number of greens.  When a green is limited to only 1 or two positions at best, for sure the USGA and PGA won't like it.

To be honest, i actually expected to see some clown mouths and windmills on a couple of greens, they were that ridiculous. A world class course should not have mickey mouse greens.  Even the punchbowl green is silly.  Absolutely everything funnels towards the center.  I missed right by a good 20-30 yards and ended up about 10 feet from the day's pin placement.  It was impossible to not get it close.

As others say, the driveable par-4 has the smallest flat area i've ever seen.  I doubt if it was 8 foot in diameter. More like about 6 foot diameter level.  And holding that area was difficult.

Fairways are huge.  Missing one was almost impossible.  And they did roll.  I think on a couple of drives i got 50-75 or more yards roll.  One hole it seemed like almost 100 yards of roll.  I had less than 70 yards in on a 340 yard hole and I'm an old senior lucky to hit it 170.

Also, if you use a cart, some of the holes are basically unplayable or have huge walks to the ball.  It truly is walking only.  Handicapped need not play really because of the course design.  They will accomodate the handicapped but the course design is such that some holes are unplayable as designed.

I'll play the Red and Blue again in a minute.  But never the Black.  The Red and Blue are eminently playable great designs with very strong green complexes.  The Black is playable (almost super easy) until you get to those putt-putt designed greens.  Old MacDonald at Bandon Dunes has huge greens but they are playable and somewhat reasonable.  Black's are just silly and have extremely limited options for pin placements.

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#14 vallygolf

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 09:12 AM

Sounds super fun, I better get out there to play it before the war drums become so loud they have to change it.  Im always a sucker for a challenge like this, but you have to have a "shot by shot" mentality and enjoy each stupid shot for what it is, rather than a "whats my score" mentality.  At least it sounds like it plays like a links course.  The Blue IMO has no possibility to be played as a links course and poorly designed greens to boot.  Red is awesome.  I wasnt planning to go back to streamsong, but now it seems I need to get out there soon.

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#15 jerebear21

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 09:25 AM

 vallygolf, on 28 December 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

Sounds super fun, I better get out there to play it before the war drums become so loud they have to change it.  Im always a sucker for a challenge like this, but you have to have a "shot by shot" mentality and enjoy each stupid shot for what it is, rather than a "whats my score" mentality.  At least it sounds like it plays like a links course.  The Blue IMO has no possibility to be played as a links course and poorly designed greens to boot.  Red is awesome.  I wasnt planning to go back to streamsong, but now it seems I need to get out there soon.

I wouldn't go as far as saying I'll never play black again. In matter of fact I'll be there for new years just to play the black again.  I think it's a fantastic course if you don't plan to have a "let's score" mentality.

best ball, scramble? oh boy this is the one.  And hole 17 and 18 really is world class. I think it's even better than 17-18 on red as far as finishing hole goes.  

I got on 18 in 2 by taking the tee shot to the right side where water and sand bunkers come into play. It really is a heck of a hole.

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#16 jerebear21

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 09:55 AM

 dcmidnight, on 27 December 2017 - 07:31 AM, said:

I haven't heard or read one bad review on the place. Have had several friends play there that loved it - said the fairways are a mile wide and the greens are huge. The worst review I heard was one of them saying it was similar to the other two courses - which are both top 25 and I loved playing both of them.

So for me, I find it almost impossible to believe that 12 out of 12 people absolutely hated the course.

It is nothing like red and blue. There are no similarities.
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#17 jerebear21

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 09:59 AM

 RBurl, on 28 December 2017 - 08:21 AM, said:

 jerebear21, on 28 December 2017 - 08:10 AM, said:

oh come on, there was more than one bad greens in the front 9

hole 1 par5 - their is a huge mound in the front of green so you couldn't see the 2 ft dip in difference of the tiers
hole 4, par5 - pin location that day was surrounded by little bumps and mounds within 10 ft
hole 5, par3 - that back left pin location was a hazard; going a touch too long and it funnels all the way to the back right
hole 6, par4 - read hole 4
hole 9, par4 - there are 2-3 feet of slope to differentiate between the tiers; for a punchbowl green you'd assume all the ball would funnel towards the center.  pin location that day was on one of the tiers; it's not bad per se; it was quirky when you can't see where the pin is and essentially taking a blind shot into one of the quadrant.  you're praying for this one.  

if the greens weren't so fast, it is somewhat playable; too bad they were just as fast as the red and blue. I'm hoping it'll soften up.

I've really heard the second par 5 (hole 4?) and the hole with two greens on the back (hole 13?) are the two worst holes they have ever played. Seems extreme, but they really went into detail. Anyway, I think I'll stick to the blue and red when I go down there in a month.  Thanks for all the help!

Hole 13 had a principle nose at the 250 marker. Staying back puts you 170-180 out into a green sloping left to right with a huge mound covering the left side of the green so you wouldn’t know the sloping. Right side of the green was bunkers so naturally you want to go left. But you wouldn’t know the slope on the left because of the mound. Pin location that day was on the right side near the bunkers. Go figure.

This was the left green. I didn’t play the right green that day.

Edited by jerebear21, 28 December 2017 - 10:00 AM.

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#18 Chile Dip Master

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 10:37 AM

 jerebear21, on 27 December 2017 - 08:26 AM, said:

it's not a bad course at all; it's just a pain in the butt and there's no letting down.  Hole 17 and 18 are world class.  

I drove the green on the short par4-14 and 5 putted.  It was better to lay up and get a wedge in and maybe be lucky to 3-putt.  Don't expect scoring.

I'll be back to play the black New Years. Maybe I'll change my mind after playing a 2nd time.  It's just stupidly quirky.

I have not played it but two friends who I play 80% of my rounds a year with did play it recently.  Both are excellent players (0.5 and 3.5 Hcdp) and each said the same thing. Don't expect to score well the first time you play it....even after 10 rounds it will still be hard. Forget it if the wind is blowing.

Each noted It is just a hard course to score on. Each said the greens are very tough to read and would take a lot of play to know them well.

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#19 klebs01

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 11:31 AM

 vallygolf, on 28 December 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

Sounds super fun, I better get out there to play it before the war drums become so loud they have to change it.  Im always a sucker for a challenge like this, but you have to have a "shot by shot" mentality and enjoy each stupid shot for what it is, rather than a "whats my score" mentality.  At least it sounds like it plays like a links course.  The Blue IMO has no possibility to be played as a links course and poorly designed greens to boot.  Red is awesome.  I wasnt planning to go back to streamsong, but now it seems I need to get out there soon.

I’m with you. These comments make it sound like a great course. I need to get there and play it before the course is ruined. I’m really tired of one dimensional, penal dark ages courses. It’s nice to see strategy and the ground game returning.

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#20 GTgolf

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 08:12 PM

Goofy golf is all I've heard.


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#21 Andrew Bond of Glencoe

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 08:38 AM

It’s not goofy golf. The greens are tough, zero doubt about it.

If you just free yourself to just play golf and accept the challenge it can be a lot of fun. The greens require a lot of imagination.

Now on the flip side:

I have said this before but it is worth saying again: The greens would be amazing at a private club. Imagine the home field advantage these greens would offer a member. This being a resort course the greens may turn off the 20 handicapper. The greens also slow down play.

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#22 raynorfan1

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 08:43 AM

 Andrew Bond of Glencoe, on 29 December 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

I have said this before but it is worth saying again: The greens would be amazing at a private club. Imagine the home field advantage these greens would offer a member.

I find it easier to imagine the petty bitching of the visitors who chronically lose to a sandbagging home team.

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#23 tbarlow11

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 08:44 AM

I played the Black yesterday. I played well, but I had my fair share of bad hole and 4/5 putts so I got enough of a taste of the bad.

Are some of the greens crazy? Yes, absolutely.

Are they as bad as a lot of people are making them out to be? No.

The greens are huge. In terms of them enlarging them during grown in, the caddies told me that they weren’t sure about that, they thought some got enlarged for good reason (they mentioned the punch bowl #9 as one) and some others were enlarged solely to follow suit with the rest of the course. But they also included that you can putt from 20-30 yards off the green in some places, and they’ve watched people chip from on the green so green size didn’t really matter.

I think they definitely could use some softening up. Some spots were just tough to get to or hold something on.

Fairways, yes they’re huge, but everything’s strategically placed. If you play the right tees for your length, you have to play target golf. I played the Blacks, and my caddy literally told me ONCE all day that I had a little room to rip one. The 16th, he gave me a window that seemed no wider than the teeing ground and said it’s that, bunker, or through the fairway.

yes the fairways are massive but I’m sorry you can’t stick the ball in the ground, hit it anywhere and expect to get away with it.

The 14th? Great hole. What do you guys want a 280 yard Par 4 with a punchbowl fairway and green where everything funnels to the pin? Cmon, classic risk reward hole. Go for it? You can get on or catch a nice collection area or a good spot in a bunker. OR you can miss and end up somewhere funky. That’s how driveable par 4s should be. Want to lay up? Better pick the right spot. Even if you’re in the right spot, you have a classic risk reward on that approach shot too. Try to squeeze it in tight for bird or risk having it come all the way back to you, or play out to the flat area and guarantee a flat lag putt.

I will say, that the 13th right green is a joke. We played the left and the caddies told us they have been starting the favor the left one more. The right literally has a playable area with a diameter of like 10 yards, anything else is impossible. I think the screwed the pooch on that one.

Overall though, it was a good time. It was challenging. There were a lot of tough putts of course but I wouldn’t call the course a failure. You can’t go to a place like this and expect to score. There’s no guaranteed pars or 2 putts and even on the best golfers best day they are going to be grinding or even lagging some par putts. That’s golf. If it was easy, wed all be on the PGA Tour


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#24 Roody

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 09:08 AM

Sounds a lot like Kaluyhat at Turning Stone. Resort course, huge fairways, but lots of challenge because of setup. I love Kaluyhat. Every time I play it I know it will test my patience. I feel like I accomplished something if I come away with a decent score.

I think I need to add the Streamsong courses to my bucket list.
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#25 az2au

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 09:31 AM

 klebs01, on 28 December 2017 - 11:31 AM, said:

 vallygolf, on 28 December 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

Sounds super fun, I better get out there to play it before the war drums become so loud they have to change it.  Im always a sucker for a challenge like this, but you have to have a "shot by shot" mentality and enjoy each stupid shot for what it is, rather than a "whats my score" mentality.  At least it sounds like it plays like a links course.  The Blue IMO has no possibility to be played as a links course and poorly designed greens to boot.  Red is awesome.  I wasnt planning to go back to streamsong, but now it seems I need to get out there soon.

I’m with you. These comments make it sound like a great course. I need to get there and play it before the course is ruined. I’m really tired of one dimensional, penal dark ages courses. It’s nice to see strategy and the ground game returning.
Yep, me too. The more I read the anger from people who expect it to be like everything else the more I feel like I would enjoy it. Challenges like this are fun.


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#26 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 09:41 AM

Sounds intriguing.

When talking about those greens, has anyone that played it also played the Dunes Course at The Prairie Club in Nebraska?

I feel like that’s how those greens are and it give a good comparison.
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#27 CMCSGolf

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 10:13 AM

 az2au, on 29 December 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

 klebs01, on 28 December 2017 - 11:31 AM, said:

 vallygolf, on 28 December 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

Sounds super fun, I better get out there to play it before the war drums become so loud they have to change it.  Im always a sucker for a challenge like this, but you have to have a "shot by shot" mentality and enjoy each stupid shot for what it is, rather than a "whats my score" mentality.  At least it sounds like it plays like a links course.  The Blue IMO has no possibility to be played as a links course and poorly designed greens to boot.  Red is awesome.  I wasnt planning to go back to streamsong, but now it seems I need to get out there soon.

I'm with you. These comments make it sound like a great course. I need to get there and play it before the course is ruined. I'm really tired of one dimensional, penal dark ages courses. It's nice to see strategy and the ground game returning.
Yep, me too. The more I read the anger from people who expect it to be like everything else the more I feel like I would enjoy it. Challenges like this are fun.

I agree.  In my opinion, it's awesome to hear the course is so divisive.  If all these people are complaining about it, it must mean this course did something different and has unique features which will be fun to see.  If a course is universally praised, then it's doubtful the architect took any risks and the product is fairly generic or safe.  Even if some of Hanse's greens are too wild and unfair to start (and it sounds like some definitely are), I appreciate that he took risks to create a different kind of course.  There is value in something that is different, even if it is not universally good.

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#28 Jimmyjs

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 10:29 AM

I went down to Streamsong with 7 other guys about two weeks after the Black course opened. Our group had a handicap range of 0 - 25 with most in the high single digits and low double digits. After we walked off the Black course, 5 people said they would never play the course again. They hated it.. Basically called it mini golf on steroids once you get within 30 yards of the pin. The ones who disliked it had a ton of 3 putts, 4 putts, etc. What was a shame is that even they thought tee to green was pretty and fun but the green complexes ruined the whole experience. The other 3 people, including myself, thought it was a good time. As I thought about it more, I realized the 3 who liked it were the 3 lowest HC's on the trip. We could control irons to a point where we didn't have a lot of 30+ foot putts with 5 different breaks and huge mounds to deal with. We heard the caddies and a number of other people on the ground say the course wasn't getting a lot of love and people were sticking to the Red and Blue courses.

For the record, everyone in our group loved the Red and Blue courses.
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#29 krtgolfing

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 10:39 AM

I am hoping to get down in the summertime to play all 3 courses. All about those cheap rates!
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#30 Lacey Underall

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 10:48 AM

Very interesting to hear all of this.  I have not played any of the courses yet but plan to soon.  I'm one of those crazy people that really likes playing the most difficult courses from the tips.....so I may actually like it.  

Funny story:  I was just in Florida last week and ran into a guy at the grocery store that had a Streamsong shirt on.  We started talking and it turns out he was the General Manager there for several years.  He said the owner's ultimate vision is to be BIGGER than Pinehurst.  They own 16,000 acres of land there.  It generally takes 200 acres or less to build a golf course so do the math on that.

Edited by Lacey Underall, 29 December 2017 - 10:50 AM.

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