99 replies to this topic

[Sean2]

 dpark, on 08 January 2018 - 02:15 AM, said:

 cristphoto, on 03 January 2018 - 07:54 AM, said:

You're right that the Dryjoy Tour XP rain gear doesn't work that well. I remember last year I went to play golf in a league with my buddies. I set my Titleist bag loaded with all Titleist clubs down and went in the pro shop wearing my Icon Blacks. It started to drizzle so I went out to my bag and got my ZR jacket and ZR rain hat. Just so happened the Titleist rep was in the shop. He asked me why I didn't have the Dryjoy rain gear to go with everything else. I told him point blank I only wear gear that works and that means Goretex. Since there were a few others in the shop he defended his product saying it was just as good as Goretex. I've played golf for over 50 years and in that time I've learned what works and what doesn't. Finally he took my name and address and sent me a Dryjoy Tour XP suit for free. It was a nice gesture but compared to my Zero Restriction gear it's thicker, heavier, noisier, less flexible, less adjustable, and is less rainproof. No contest.

It amazes me how many top-tier golf companies are still selling rain gear that does not use Gore-Tex and charging big bucks because of their name.

There is just no comparison between rain gear this uses Gore-Tex and those that use something else. Gore-Tex beats every other product (DryJoys, Storm-Fit etc.) hands down. They can use whatever "statistics" or "test results" they want to claim how their products are "just as good" as Gore-Tex, but the reality is, they are not. Not in the real world anyways.

If you are just playing in a light drizzle, pretty much anything will work, but if you are going to go Scotland or Bandon Dunes or any bucket list destination where real rain is a strong possibility, to go there with anything other than Gore-Tex rain gear is asking for a miserable round of golf if the weather goes south.

I am quite puzzled by that as well. The 2-year water proofing guarantee is a bit of a joke. Probably at the end of the 2 year period the DWR "wears out". Sure you can spray some back onto the garment, but the garment was never water proof to begin with. And, the price they charge for these "water proof" garments is kinda silly.

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[chris975d]

 Sean2, on 20 January 2018 - 12:44 PM, said:

 dpark, on 08 January 2018 - 02:15 AM, said:

 cristphoto, on 03 January 2018 - 07:54 AM, said:

You're right that the Dryjoy Tour XP rain gear doesn't work that well. I remember last year I went to play golf in a league with my buddies. I set my Titleist bag loaded with all Titleist clubs down and went in the pro shop wearing my Icon Blacks. It started to drizzle so I went out to my bag and got my ZR jacket and ZR rain hat. Just so happened the Titleist rep was in the shop. He asked me why I didn't have the Dryjoy rain gear to go with everything else. I told him point blank I only wear gear that works and that means Goretex. Since there were a few others in the shop he defended his product saying it was just as good as Goretex. I've played golf for over 50 years and in that time I've learned what works and what doesn't. Finally he took my name and address and sent me a Dryjoy Tour XP suit for free. It was a nice gesture but compared to my Zero Restriction gear it's thicker, heavier, noisier, less flexible, less adjustable, and is less rainproof. No contest.

It amazes me how many top-tier golf companies are still selling rain gear that does not use Gore-Tex and charging big bucks because of their name.

There is just no comparison between rain gear this uses Gore-Tex and those that use something else. Gore-Tex beats every other product (DryJoys, Storm-Fit etc.) hands down. They can use whatever "statistics" or "test results" they want to claim how their products are "just as good" as Gore-Tex, but the reality is, they are not. Not in the real world anyways.

If you are just playing in a light drizzle, pretty much anything will work, but if you are going to go Scotland or Bandon Dunes or any bucket list destination where real rain is a strong possibility, to go there with anything other than Gore-Tex rain gear is asking for a miserable round of golf if the weather goes south.

I am quite puzzled by that as well. The 2-year water proofing guarantee is a bit of a joke. Probably at the end of the 2 year period the DWR "wears out". Sure you can spray some back onto the garment, but the garment was never water proof to begin with. And, the price they charge for these "water proof" garments is kinda silly.

Again, one always needs to make sure that they are comparing apples to apples.  Make sure that when comparing FJ products with GoreTex, that the FJ products (or any other label) are membrane containing, and the rating.  Waterproof membrane tech is all comparable.   I can tell you first hand I have FJ, as well as other non-Gore waterproofs with hours and hours of heavy rain use that hasn't leaked a bit.  As well as GoreTex products.

If you have time, read the article I linked to in my post just before this.  Gives some insight into how Gore tries to control the industry with some fairly strongarm tactics to stiffle the competition in technology they face now.

[Sean2]

 chris975d, on 20 January 2018 - 12:59 PM, said:

 Sean2, on 20 January 2018 - 12:44 PM, said:

 dpark, on 08 January 2018 - 02:15 AM, said:

 cristphoto, on 03 January 2018 - 07:54 AM, said:

You're right that the Dryjoy Tour XP rain gear doesn't work that well. I remember last year I went to play golf in a league with my buddies. I set my Titleist bag loaded with all Titleist clubs down and went in the pro shop wearing my Icon Blacks. It started to drizzle so I went out to my bag and got my ZR jacket and ZR rain hat. Just so happened the Titleist rep was in the shop. He asked me why I didn't have the Dryjoy rain gear to go with everything else. I told him point blank I only wear gear that works and that means Goretex. Since there were a few others in the shop he defended his product saying it was just as good as Goretex. I've played golf for over 50 years and in that time I've learned what works and what doesn't. Finally he took my name and address and sent me a Dryjoy Tour XP suit for free. It was a nice gesture but compared to my Zero Restriction gear it's thicker, heavier, noisier, less flexible, less adjustable, and is less rainproof. No contest.

It amazes me how many top-tier golf companies are still selling rain gear that does not use Gore-Tex and charging big bucks because of their name.

There is just no comparison between rain gear this uses Gore-Tex and those that use something else. Gore-Tex beats every other product (DryJoys, Storm-Fit etc.) hands down. They can use whatever "statistics" or "test results" they want to claim how their products are "just as good" as Gore-Tex, but the reality is, they are not. Not in the real world anyways.

If you are just playing in a light drizzle, pretty much anything will work, but if you are going to go Scotland or Bandon Dunes or any bucket list destination where real rain is a strong possibility, to go there with anything other than Gore-Tex rain gear is asking for a miserable round of golf if the weather goes south.

I am quite puzzled by that as well. The 2-year water proofing guarantee is a bit of a joke. Probably at the end of the 2 year period the DWR "wears out". Sure you can spray some back onto the garment, but the garment was never water proof to begin with. And, the price they charge for these "water proof" garments is kinda silly.

Again, one always needs to make sure that they are comparing apples to apples.  Make sure that when comparing FJ products with GoreTex, that the FJ products (or any other label) are membrane containing, and the rating.  Waterproof membrane tech is all comparable.   I can tell you first hand I have FJ, as well as other non-Gore waterproofs with hours and hours of heavy rain use that hasn't leaked a bit.  As well as GoreTex products.

If you have time, read the article I linked to in my post just before this.  Gives some insight into how Gore tries to control the industry with some fairly strongarm tactics to stiffle the competition in technology they face now.

Yes, of course. But if a company is going to make rain gear, then make rain gear. :-)  So it is sort of an apple to apples comparison, i.e., rain gear. Just the term "rain gear" intimates that wearing that gear will keep one dry. The rain gear Corey Pavin's Ryder Cup players wore didn't work out so well.

If a garment won't keep a person dry, then it shouldn't be marketed as rain gear. If it is, then be prepared to have it compared to Gore-Tex.

I am familiar with Gore-Tex, but there are other alternative...ProQuip for example has developed a proprietary water proof "shell" that has a lifetime water proofing guarantee. Years ago when I lived in Washington state, I was a search and rescue volunteer. I purchased a pair of water proof trousers that were not Gore-Tex, but promised a water proof guarantee. I still have them, and they are still water proof.

[chris975d]

 Sean2, on 20 January 2018 - 01:07 PM, said:

 chris975d, on 20 January 2018 - 12:59 PM, said:

 Sean2, on 20 January 2018 - 12:44 PM, said:

 dpark, on 08 January 2018 - 02:15 AM, said:

 cristphoto, on 03 January 2018 - 07:54 AM, said:

You're right that the Dryjoy Tour XP rain gear doesn't work that well. I remember last year I went to play golf in a league with my buddies. I set my Titleist bag loaded with all Titleist clubs down and went in the pro shop wearing my Icon Blacks. It started to drizzle so I went out to my bag and got my ZR jacket and ZR rain hat. Just so happened the Titleist rep was in the shop. He asked me why I didn't have the Dryjoy rain gear to go with everything else. I told him point blank I only wear gear that works and that means Goretex. Since there were a few others in the shop he defended his product saying it was just as good as Goretex. I've played golf for over 50 years and in that time I've learned what works and what doesn't. Finally he took my name and address and sent me a Dryjoy Tour XP suit for free. It was a nice gesture but compared to my Zero Restriction gear it's thicker, heavier, noisier, less flexible, less adjustable, and is less rainproof. No contest.

It amazes me how many top-tier golf companies are still selling rain gear that does not use Gore-Tex and charging big bucks because of their name.

There is just no comparison between rain gear this uses Gore-Tex and those that use something else. Gore-Tex beats every other product (DryJoys, Storm-Fit etc.) hands down. They can use whatever "statistics" or "test results" they want to claim how their products are "just as good" as Gore-Tex, but the reality is, they are not. Not in the real world anyways.

If you are just playing in a light drizzle, pretty much anything will work, but if you are going to go Scotland or Bandon Dunes or any bucket list destination where real rain is a strong possibility, to go there with anything other than Gore-Tex rain gear is asking for a miserable round of golf if the weather goes south.

I am quite puzzled by that as well. The 2-year water proofing guarantee is a bit of a joke. Probably at the end of the 2 year period the DWR "wears out". Sure you can spray some back onto the garment, but the garment was never water proof to begin with. And, the price they charge for these "water proof" garments is kinda silly.

Again, one always needs to make sure that they are comparing apples to apples.  Make sure that when comparing FJ products with GoreTex, that the FJ products (or any other label) are membrane containing, and the rating.  Waterproof membrane tech is all comparable.   I can tell you first hand I have FJ, as well as other non-Gore waterproofs with hours and hours of heavy rain use that hasn't leaked a bit.  As well as GoreTex products.

If you have time, read the article I linked to in my post just before this.  Gives some insight into how Gore tries to control the industry with some fairly strongarm tactics to stiffle the competition in technology they face now.

Yes, of course. But if a company is going to make rain gear, then make rain gear. :-)  So it is sort of an apple to apples comparison, i.e., rain gear. Just the term "rain gear" intimates that wearing that gear will keep one dry. The rain gear Corey Pavin's Ryder Cup players wore didn't work out so well.

If a garment won't keep a person dry, then it shouldn't be marketed as rain gear. If it is, then be prepared to have it compared to Gore-Tex.

I am familiar with Gore-Tex, but there are other alternative...ProQuip for example has developed a proprietary water proof "shell" that has a lifetime water proofing guarantee. Years ago when I lived in Washington state, I was a search and rescue volunteer. I purchased a pair of water proof trousers that were not Gore-Tex, but promised a water proof guarantee. I still have them, and they are still water proof.

Lol.  Ok, maybe I'll give you that one a bit.  But now we are just talking about questionable marketing.  But more than one company does that.  I see it with UA as well.  They market a lot of things as "Storm", with sooo many levels of water resistance.  From fleece sweaters to their full GoreTex suits.  We all know a darn fleece is just DWR and will not keep water out very long.

Where Gore did/does succeed is in creating a minimum standard for performance/expectation.   So that if you don't want or care to research the garment tech, any consumer knows "GoreTex" will keep them dry inside (unless the DWR wears off and you perspire, but that's a different story).

[cristphoto]

I wouldn't say that Gore uses strong-arm tactics (as implied in the posted article). I'd prefer to say that they are maintaining standards. When you purchase a Goretex product not only does the original manufacturer guarantee it waterproof for life, Gore provides the same guarantee (thereby offering protection in case the original mfg. goes under). Thus their involvement in the manufacturing process. Companies not using Goretex in their products however are free to cut corners as they see fit.

[chris975d]

 cristphoto, on 20 January 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

I wouldn't say that Gore uses strong-arm tactics (as implied in the posted article). I'd prefer to say that they are maintaining standards. When you purchase a Goretex product not only does the original manufacturer guarantee it waterproof for life, Gore provides the same guarantee (thereby offering protection in case the original mfg. goes under). Thus their involvement in the manufacturing process. Companies not using Goretex in their products however are free to cut corners as they see fit.

I don't know...making a clothing manufacturer choose to either only use GoreTex waterproofing membranes, or not allowing them to use GoreTex at all if they want to make other models with non-GoreTex membranes seems pretty strong arm to me.  Basically forcing Gore exclusivity with a manufacturer.  I've heard this for years in the industry before this article was even written.  Telling companies that you either use only Gore, or you get no Gore at all.  It's that type of stuff that has gotten Gore investigated.  

Whether a company wants to make additional waterproof gear with non-Gore products shouldn't be something Gore tries to actively control in my opinion.  Gore still has all the power and influence established by their extensive licensing agreement to control the quality and reputation of Gore technology apparel made by any clothing label.  Why do they need to try to force those labels to use only Gore products?

[Sean2]

 chris975d, on 20 January 2018 - 01:23 PM, said:

Lol.  Ok, maybe I'll give you that one a bit.  But now we are just talking about questionable marketing.  But more than one company does that.  I see it with UA as well.  They market a lot of things as "Storm", with sooo many levels of water resistance.  From fleece sweaters to their full GoreTex suits.  We all know a darn fleece is just DWR and will not keep water out very long.

Where Gore did/does succeed is in creating a minimum standard for performance/expectation.   So that if you don't want or care to research the garment tech, any consumer knows "GoreTex" will keep them dry inside (unless the DWR wears off and you perspire, but that's a different story).

I agree. :-)  I was just using FJ as an example, since I have sampled their wares. These claims, no matter the vendor, remind of similar claims made by golf shoe manufacturers. lol

On another note, I use two products by Nikwax to clean the garment and restore the DWR: Tech Wash and TX Direct Wash-In.

[chris975d]

 Sean2, on 20 January 2018 - 03:16 PM, said:

 chris975d, on 20 January 2018 - 01:23 PM, said:

Lol.  Ok, maybe I'll give you that one a bit.  But now we are just talking about questionable marketing.  But more than one company does that.  I see it with UA as well.  They market a lot of things as "Storm", with sooo many levels of water resistance.  From fleece sweaters to their full GoreTex suits.  We all know a darn fleece is just DWR and will not keep water out very long.

Where Gore did/does succeed is in creating a minimum standard for performance/expectation.   So that if you don't want or care to research the garment tech, any consumer knows "GoreTex" will keep them dry inside (unless the DWR wears off and you perspire, but that's a different story).

I agree. :-)  I was just using FJ as an example, since I have sampled their wares. These claims, no matter the vendor, remind of similar claims made by golf shoe manufacturers. lol

On another note, I use two products by Nikwax to clean the garment and restore the DWR: Tech Wash and TX Direct Wash-In.

That brings up another good point about GoreTex (especially PacLite since your skin comes into direct contact with the membrane on the inside) and many waterproof membranes...keeping them clean and the face fabrics' DWR maintained.  They (the membranes) do not work as designed if the DWR fails, or body oils/dirt/grease start to clog the micropores of the membrane.  You'll get wet inside from the trapping of your own water vapor/perspiration.  You're basically wearing a big teflon/polyurethane bag with microscopic pores in it...they have to be maintained correctly from time to time.  lol.

[Sean2]

 chris975d, on 20 January 2018 - 03:24 PM, said:

 Sean2, on 20 January 2018 - 03:16 PM, said:

 chris975d, on 20 January 2018 - 01:23 PM, said:

Lol.  Ok, maybe I'll give you that one a bit.  But now we are just talking about questionable marketing.  But more than one company does that.  I see it with UA as well.  They market a lot of things as "Storm", with sooo many levels of water resistance.  From fleece sweaters to their full GoreTex suits.  We all know a darn fleece is just DWR and will not keep water out very long.

Where Gore did/does succeed is in creating a minimum standard for performance/expectation.   So that if you don't want or care to research the garment tech, any consumer knows "GoreTex" will keep them dry inside (unless the DWR wears off and you perspire, but that's a different story).

I agree. :-)  I was just using FJ as an example, since I have sampled their wares. These claims, no matter the vendor, remind of similar claims made by golf shoe manufacturers. lol

On another note, I use two products by Nikwax to clean the garment and restore the DWR: Tech Wash and TX Direct Wash-In.

That brings up another good point about GoreTex (especially PacLite since your skin comes into direct contact with the membrane on the inside) and many waterproof membranes...keeping them clean and the face fabrics' DWR maintained.  They (the membranes) do not work as designed if the DWR fails, or body oils/dirt/grease start to clog the micropores of the membrane.  You'll get wet inside from the trapping of your own water vapor/perspiration.  You're basically wearing a big teflon/polyurethane bag with microscopic pores in it...they have to be maintained correctly from time to time.  lol.

Yes, ironically Gore-Tex needs to "breathe" in order to function properly. As you say, you won't get wet from the rain, but you will end up soaked nonetheless. lol

[cristphoto]

 chris975d, on 20 January 2018 - 03:06 PM, said:

 cristphoto, on 20 January 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

I wouldn't say that Gore uses strong-arm tactics (as implied in the posted article). I'd prefer to say that they are maintaining standards. When you purchase a Goretex product not only does the original manufacturer guarantee it waterproof for life, Gore provides the same guarantee (thereby offering protection in case the original mfg. goes under). Thus their involvement in the manufacturing process. Companies not using Goretex in their products however are free to cut corners as they see fit.

I don't know...making a clothing manufacturer choose to either only use GoreTex waterproofing membranes, or not allowing them to use GoreTex at all if they want to make other models with non-GoreTex membranes seems pretty strong arm to me.  Basically forcing Gore exclusivity with a manufacturer.  I've heard this for years in the industry before this article was even written.  Telling companies that you either use only Gore, or you get no Gore at all.  It's that type of stuff that has gotten Gore investigated.  

Whether a company wants to make additional waterproof gear with non-Gore products shouldn't be something Gore tries to actively control in my opinion.  Gore still has all the power and influence established by their extensive licensing agreement to control the quality and reputation of Gore technology apparel made by any clothing label.  Why do they need to try to force those labels to use only Gore products?

Gore may request a company make all Goretex products but that is not what occurs every time.  Case in point - I have both eVent and Goretex rain gear made by Sunice.  Goretex and eVent (made by GE I believe) definitely are competitors.

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[chris975d]

 cristphoto, on 20 January 2018 - 05:57 PM, said:

 chris975d, on 20 January 2018 - 03:06 PM, said:

 cristphoto, on 20 January 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

I wouldn't say that Gore uses strong-arm tactics (as implied in the posted article). I'd prefer to say that they are maintaining standards. When you purchase a Goretex product not only does the original manufacturer guarantee it waterproof for life, Gore provides the same guarantee (thereby offering protection in case the original mfg. goes under). Thus their involvement in the manufacturing process. Companies not using Goretex in their products however are free to cut corners as they see fit.

I don't know...making a clothing manufacturer choose to either only use GoreTex waterproofing membranes, or not allowing them to use GoreTex at all if they want to make other models with non-GoreTex membranes seems pretty strong arm to me.  Basically forcing Gore exclusivity with a manufacturer.  I've heard this for years in the industry before this article was even written.  Telling companies that you either use only Gore, or you get no Gore at all.  It's that type of stuff that has gotten Gore investigated.  

Whether a company wants to make additional waterproof gear with non-Gore products shouldn't be something Gore tries to actively control in my opinion.  Gore still has all the power and influence established by their extensive licensing agreement to control the quality and reputation of Gore technology apparel made by any clothing label.  Why do they need to try to force those labels to use only Gore products?

Gore may request a company make all Goretex products but that is not what occurs every time.  Case in point - I have both eVent and Goretex rain gear made by Sunice.  Goretex and eVent (made by GE I believe) definitely are competitors.

Yes, you're more than likely correct in that it's not every time, and not maybe not even as often anymore.  But that could also be due to the FTC's investigation that was launched per the article I linked to.  Point being...Gore has done it...pulled licenses from companies that introduced non-Gore products.

Anyway, overall point being, and one I've said in several of these posts, is that Gore has done an excellent job of creating a minimum standard of performance for apparel with the GoreTex mark.  People at least know what to expect.  My only thing was saying that there ARE waterproof membranes out there that are equal to, and in some measurable characteristics, often better than Gore's product.  Derzimax, eVent, NeoShell, ProQuip's tech all can offer more breathability and/or more stretch.  This is tested and proven.  Look at the recommended lists of the top outdoor/winter sports gear...more and more non-GoreTex products are making it into those lists.  And I often put more stock in those lists in terms of which materials to use, as those sports/activities are a hell of a lot more active and have way more movement than us in golf walking and swinging metal sticks.  Only issue with non-Gore apparel is it's up to the consumer to research it, as many of these membranes are allowed to be sold under generic names, and may not even be mentioned specifically on the garment (Toray/Derzimax, eVent both come to mind).  With Gore, due to the standards they create and very tightly control, you know "what's in it."  Just means it's not necessarily the end all, be all of waterproof gear.

But hey, that's a good thing for us consumers in the end...more great choices!

[Morety]

Want to thank Chris975d for help picking out a new rain suit.  I sent Chris some DMs about the ProQuip PX5 and decided to pull the trigger on it without having seen it in person.  The suit arrived last week and exceeds expectations.  The fit is perfect and I love that it's "softer" and "quieter" than a traditional rain suit.  Taking it to Bandon in 3 weeks.  Hope I don't have to use it, but if I do, know that I'll be protected!

[oregongolf]

 Morety, on 21 January 2018 - 08:59 PM, said:

Want to thank Chris975d for help picking out a new rain suit.  I sent Chris some DMs about the ProQuip PX5 and decided to pull the trigger on it without having seen it in person.  The suit arrived last week and exceeds expectations.  The fit is perfect and I love that it's "softer" and "quieter" than a traditional rain suit.  Taking it to Bandon in 3 weeks.  Hope I don't have to use it, but if I do, know that I'll be protected!

I have the PX5 and took it last February for my annual Bandon trip. Didn't need it much, but when we did, it was bulletproof. Best rain gear I've ever had.

Not sure you'll find a better place to test a suit's full measure than the PNW.

I'm curious to see how they'll improve it with their next iteration.

[pierso2]

 Sean2, on 20 January 2018 - 01:07 PM, said:

 chris975d, on 20 January 2018 - 12:59 PM, said:

 Sean2, on 20 January 2018 - 12:44 PM, said:

 dpark, on 08 January 2018 - 02:15 AM, said:

 cristphoto, on 03 January 2018 - 07:54 AM, said:

You're right that the Dryjoy Tour XP rain gear doesn't work that well. I remember last year I went to play golf in a league with my buddies. I set my Titleist bag loaded with all Titleist clubs down and went in the pro shop wearing my Icon Blacks. It started to drizzle so I went out to my bag and got my ZR jacket and ZR rain hat. Just so happened the Titleist rep was in the shop. He asked me why I didn't have the Dryjoy rain gear to go with everything else. I told him point blank I only wear gear that works and that means Goretex. Since there were a few others in the shop he defended his product saying it was just as good as Goretex. I've played golf for over 50 years and in that time I've learned what works and what doesn't. Finally he took my name and address and sent me a Dryjoy Tour XP suit for free. It was a nice gesture but compared to my Zero Restriction gear it's thicker, heavier, noisier, less flexible, less adjustable, and is less rainproof. No contest.

It amazes me how many top-tier golf companies are still selling rain gear that does not use Gore-Tex and charging big bucks because of their name.

There is just no comparison between rain gear this uses Gore-Tex and those that use something else. Gore-Tex beats every other product (DryJoys, Storm-Fit etc.) hands down. They can use whatever "statistics" or "test results" they want to claim how their products are "just as good" as Gore-Tex, but the reality is, they are not. Not in the real world anyways.

If you are just playing in a light drizzle, pretty much anything will work, but if you are going to go Scotland or Bandon Dunes or any bucket list destination where real rain is a strong possibility, to go there with anything other than Gore-Tex rain gear is asking for a miserable round of golf if the weather goes south.

I am quite puzzled by that as well. The 2-year water proofing guarantee is a bit of a joke. Probably at the end of the 2 year period the DWR "wears out". Sure you can spray some back onto the garment, but the garment was never water proof to begin with. And, the price they charge for these "water proof" garments is kinda silly.

Again, one always needs to make sure that they are comparing apples to apples.  Make sure that when comparing FJ products with GoreTex, that the FJ products (or any other label) are membrane containing, and the rating.  Waterproof membrane tech is all comparable.   I can tell you first hand I have FJ, as well as other non-Gore waterproofs with hours and hours of heavy rain use that hasn't leaked a bit.  As well as GoreTex products.

If you have time, read the article I linked to in my post just before this.  Gives some insight into how Gore tries to control the industry with some fairly strongarm tactics to stiffle the competition in technology they face now.

Yes, of course. But if a company is going to make rain gear, then make rain gear. :-)  So it is sort of an apple to apples comparison, i.e., rain gear. Just the term "rain gear" intimates that wearing that gear will keep one dry. The rain gear Corey Pavin's Ryder Cup players wore didn't work out so well.

If a garment won't keep a person dry, then it shouldn't be marketed as rain gear. If it is, then be prepared to have it compared to Gore-Tex.

I am familiar with Gore-Tex, but there are other alternative...ProQuip for example has developed a proprietary water proof "shell" that has a lifetime water proofing guarantee. Years ago when I lived in Washington state, I was a search and rescue volunteer. I purchased a pair of water proof trousers that were not Gore-Tex, but promised a water proof guarantee. I still have them, and they are still water proof.

I bought a pair of proquip rain pants and really like the feel of them as well as the weight. I have a pair of Gore-Tex and a few others as well but from my experience, Gore-Tex works great but is really really heat trapping and heavy to start with. I get why they're so good at trapping heat (waterproofing means nothing comes in and nothing goes out). But good golly! When you're out on the course and a strong rain storm comes in quick and you toss on your gear (if you're smart enough to pack it) it's great stuff. But once the rain passes and the course is wet but playable so you keep your rain pants on, gore-tex is great but boy do they get toasty quick! I haven't tried my proquip yet but they seem lighter weight yet waterproof.

[USAF Retired E7]

Thanks to Chris975d and Morety for the info.  Got my ProQuip PX5 suit ordered and looking forward to it being delivered.

[ceejay81]

I just scooped up a John Daly Golf rain suit for $50 this week.  The reviews were solid, but I guess I'll find out when I use it.  When I tried it on, everything felt great and I liked the style.  I have one of their waterproof windbreakers already and really like it, so I figured I'd give them another try with the rain suit.  My friends and I will walk up to the first tee when it's raining, so this isn't just for emergency situations - the suit will get plenty of use!  I'm headed to Pinehurst and to a Masters practice round in April, but hopefully won't have to use it.

Those ProQuip PX5 suits look super nice.  Question to those who have it - if it's 75 degrees and pouring down rain, do you get hot and sweaty in the suit or does it keep you cool?

[Uhit]

 ceejay81, on 02 February 2018 - 08:10 AM, said:

I just scooped up a John Daly Golf rain suit for $50 this week.  The reviews were solid, but I guess I'll find out when I use it.  When I tried it on, everything felt great and I liked the style.  I have one of their waterproof windbreakers already and really like it, so I figured I'd give them another try with the rain suit.  My friends and I will walk up to the first tee when it's raining, so this isn't just for emergency situations - the suit will get plenty of use!  I'm headed to Pinehurst and to a Masters practice round in April, but hopefully won't have to use it.

Those ProQuip PX5 suits look super nice.  Question to those who have it - if it's 75 degrees and pouring down rain, do you get hot and sweaty in the suit or does it keep you cool?

I think, that you can't give a general answer to this question, because everyone is an individual with a different comfort zone...

...however for me, my Galvin Green Avery which is said to have "maximum breathability that enables the release of excess heat and moisture",
is noticeable less suited for temperatures above 70 degrees, than my ProQuip PX5 - despite it is considerably lighter in weight.

[Even]

I just went through this same dilemma this past season. After playing in a local qualifier in what can only be described as a mini monsoon. I did a ton of research. Read all the reviews and finally settled on Galvin Green.

I looked thru a slew of retailers, being in the States didn't help.  Finally found https://www.function18.com/
Their prices were unbeatable. Shipping was faster then if it came from in-state (not even sure how they did that). My order was at my door in like 3 days.

There is a lot to choose from within their line. I looked at it like it was a one time purchase as I'm 45 and past growing out of stuff. So buy the best available materials and technology. I opted for their C-Knit line of stuff. I can honestly say I couldn't be happier. I'm amazed at how dry, flexible and just plain comfortable this stuff is to play in.

Here are the items I went with:
Jacket - https://www.function...cket-black.html
Pants - https://www.function...users-iron.html

I was sold after seeing this review...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU0IbhrGo-E

Hope this helps.

[short game]

yeah f18 and golfposer have some great deals on GG - especially at the end of the year. only problem is if they don't fit - you have to pay postage back to the UK and thats a pain in the rear.

that said you cant beat GG for quality. check out the sales when they come up - great bargains!

Edited by short game, 07 February 2018 - 08:01 PM.

[bmellisen]

 ceejay81, on 02 February 2018 - 08:10 AM, said:

I just scooped up a John Daly Golf rain suit for $50 this week.  The reviews were solid, but I guess I'll find out when I use it.  When I tried it on, everything felt great and I liked the style.  I have one of their waterproof windbreakers already and really like it, so I figured I'd give them another try with the rain suit.  My friends and I will walk up to the first tee when it's raining, so this isn't just for emergency situations - the suit will get plenty of use!  I'm headed to Pinehurst and to a Masters practice round in April, but hopefully won't have to use it.

Those ProQuip PX5 suits look super nice.  Question to those who have it - if it's 75 degrees and pouring down rain, do you get hot and sweaty in the suit or does it keep you cool?

Don’t know if you’d get sweaty but it might be a little warm at 75 degrees. The sleeves are a material where it is comfortable wearing a short sleeve shirt under it. But I wouldnt wear much warmer than 60 degrees or so.  Played today in rain and 60 and it was fine.

But I’ve got a nice short sleeve Kjus that I wear when it’s 75 and raining.

Edited by bmellisen, 10 February 2018 - 03:09 PM.

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[MarkFromTheUK]

Just picked up a new GG C-Knit waterproof suit today. It’s an amazing piece of kit. Just need it to rain now...

[chris975d]

I've added it to some of the other "rain gear" threads I've participated in, but apparently not this one yet.  As big as I am on Galvin Green and saying that it's one of the best out there, I've recently acquired several Kjus pieces.  And I have to say, that despite the price (more often than not, even more expensive than Galvin..ugh), it's now my favorite brand of raingear.  The quality is untouched by other brands, in my opinion.  The ultralightweight "Dexter" waterproofs are simply insane.  Will pack down to basically cell phone sized...you could literally carry them in a loose pants pocket if you wanted...yet are fully waterproof and breathable.  Their premier jacket, the Pro 3L, is the best (in terms of movement and stretch) 3-layer waterproof I've tried.  

So for saying that Galvin Green has been my preferred raingear line, I'm changing that to Kjus.  I still like some of Galvin Green's more "lifestyle" designed pieces (styles that don't look so golf specific), but for actual on course, playing golf use, Kjus wins hands down to me.  And I'd say that ProQuip is a lot like a value oriented (when purchased at the right retailers, NOT direct from ProQuip) Kjus, if I had to describe it in relation to another brand.

[bmellisen]

Had a great opportunity to stress test my Proquip proforce rain jacket this weekend on a trip to Pinehurst. Started raining on hole 2, and poured pretty hard through 8. So hard that #9 green was actually holding water on it which is amazing for the sand hills area. Jacket held up great. Was bone dry underneath. Also kept me warm, was 40 at the most. Only had polo and long sleeve underneath.  Wasn’t toasty but was still easily able to play. Would highly recommend, especially since you can find that jacket at a reasonable price.

Also. Can attest to what Chris says about Kjus. Have their short sleeve rain jacket. Very good. Pricy but worth it.

[oregongolf]

I saw Kjus at the Bandon Dunes pro shop. Looks like nice stuff, but was really thin. Probably not the same piece Chris mentioned above.

[chris975d]

oregongolf, on 28 March 2018 - 08:07 PM, said:

I saw Kjus at the Bandon Dunes pro shop. Looks like nice stuff, but was really thin. Probably not the same piece Chris mentioned above.

Actually the "Dexter" models of waterproofs by Kjus are insanely thin.  Like the lightest full waterproofs on the market.   They pack down to nothing, and weigh less than nothing.  Of course they also have more standard weight waterproofs, like the Pro 3L, but the Dexter is stupidly light.  Kjus refers to it as "emergency" gear, as it can be carried anywhere and ready for "emergency" use in a rainstorm.

Here is a photo of the carry pouch for the Dexter waterproofs.  That's a 3x3 inch Post-It notepad for size reference.

Edited by chris975d, 28 March 2018 - 08:49 PM.

[oregongolf]

chris975d, on 28 March 2018 - 08:46 PM, said:

oregongolf, on 28 March 2018 - 08:07 PM, said:

I saw Kjus at the Bandon Dunes pro shop. Looks like nice stuff, but was really thin. Probably not the same piece Chris mentioned above.

Actually the "Dexter" models of waterproofs by Kjus are insanely thin.  Like the lightest full waterproofs on the market.   They pack down to nothing, and weigh less than nothing.  Of course they also have more standard weight waterproofs, like the Pro 3L, but the Dexter is stupidly light.  Kjus refers to it as "emergency" gear, as it can be carried anywhere and ready for "emergency" use in a rainstorm.

Here is a photo of the carry pouch for the Dexter waterproofs.  That's a 3x3 inch Post-It notepad for size reference.

Yikes... that's crazy.

I'm amazed they can get a fabric that thin to be fully waterproof?

[hlca]

I live in San Diego now, so when it rains, I just stay home.  Going to Ireland this summer, though.  Would hate to spend a ton of money on gear I hardly use.  I just bought a pre-owned ZR Goretex jacket on eBay for $60...Now gotta find some pants...

I take it the Euro brands like Proquip, GG, KJUS will be slimmer than U.S. pants?  Any U.S. pant that comes in slim too?  I guess I could size down as well as long as the inseam is at least 30"...

[mich750]

I am a rather portly guy and most if not all of the European rainwear doesn't seem to come in my size (5'9"/56 chest/46waist).  I live in Michigan, so I play in the rain and cold all the time, if I want to extend my season beyond 4 months.  So far I've had good luck with the Cabela's rainwear (great clearance prices for Gore-Tex rain wear) and the older Sun Mountain stuff.  Nothing better than wearing you cameo on the golf course:-)

Jeff

[jd502]

Nike pants are good but the jacket is only useful in light rain. The zero restriction stuff I’ve used has been great but next rain set up I get is going to be Galvin Green no question

[mallrat]

From a greenskeeper in Oregon, Galvin Green is the best I have tried so far. Nike’s stuff starts out good but when it stops being waterproof you are hating life and you never know when that is gonna be.

Adidas and FJ make decent light or drizzle rain gear, but when the heavy stuff comes down I want GG or ZR. They both are better than my Columbia gear.

But there are some days only the fishing rubbers will do and those days stink no matter what you are wearing (mine is Grunden).

EDIT... I got my GG set on sale from Golf Poser for about $390.

Edited by mallrat, 11 April 2018 - 11:21 PM.

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