44 replies to this topic

[Skaffa77]

“Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, difficulty…"   ― Theodore Roosevelt

You can't enjoy the sweet without tasting the sour.  If your son truly wants success, he'll have harder days ahead.  Better to learn that you take those tough days in stride.

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[Palmetto Golfer]

heavy_hitter, on 22 December 2017 - 02:10 PM, said:

And it is normal for kids not listening.  Haven't been to the course to watch my kid swing a club in a couple of weeks.  Went last night and this was how the conversation went.

Him:  I don't understand why the ball is going to high.
Me:  You are swinging too hard from the top down.
Him:  No I'm not.

Him:  I don't understand why I am hitting behind the ball.
Me:  You are swinging too hard from the top down.
Him:  No I'm not.

Him:  This new grip is killing me.  I can't hit a green because of it.
Me.  Maybe true, but you can't hit a green because you are swinging too hard from the top down.
Him:  No I'm not.

Get a text from his coach after his lesson.  New grip looking good.  Range session went well.  Went to the course and he started swinging too hard from the top down.  Ball would balloon and he would hit behind the ball at times.

I just shook my head.  I am not an expert, but there are certain things I can tell because I have seen him swing thousands of times.  They hit middle school and you can't tell them a thing because they think they know it all.  Frustrating because if they would just listen they could correct within minutes.  Middle school kids will try everything they can to be right even if it means doing it wrong to try to be right.

I have been in this EXACT situation many times. Like you, I have seen my son hit 1000's of balls and know his swing pretty well. It is nice to know I am not the only one who has been through this.  But...something very interesting has happened with my son in the last 3 months. My time with him on the course and range has decreased dramatically. I have been coaching my younger son in football and basketball lately so my golfer son has had to go at it alone. Since this change, my golfer son has asked me several times to come watch him hit the ball and help him figure it out.  He listens to me a lot more now. Plus, I have more patience with him as I have not been out there as much.

Maybe take a small break from being there so much? I didn't do it on purpose. It just happened b/c I was spending so much time with my other boy.

[theboypinoy]

heavy_hitter, on 27 December 2017 - 02:48 PM, said:

Lincoln_Arcadia, on 27 December 2017 - 02:34 PM, said:

BeerPerHole, on 25 December 2017 - 05:39 PM, said:

Lincoln_Arcadia, on 23 December 2017 - 10:19 PM, said:

BeerPerHole, on 22 December 2017 - 12:02 PM, said:

My boy was struggling on the driving range a little last night. How do you address that with your kiddos afterward? I tried to watch and give a little advice during but he wasn't listening (for unusual reasons I'd rather not get into).

Thanks.

My kids laugh off bad days, and always have. The simple truth is most kids are not going to be Justin Thomas nor any other pro. The best way to deal with a bad day for us is to play video games together until we're all happy or my wife stops us from wasting the rest of the day. Then we all go out for ice cream.

Yeah. In the winter our weeknight sessions are at a big, lighted range, but the grille is closed. The first several years of range rat time with him we'd always hit the grille for fries after each session. I still think that was key in him sticking with it. I'm not one to pressure the kid into anything. But...for some reason I hate video games. Never liked them (I'm strange). The boy plays minecraft, though. That game is like crack, apparently...

Going to the grille and watching other people while you eat is a great father son thing to do.

Yes, MineCraft is pretty addicting for them. That's the other thing we had to deal with, but it was only a passing thing for our kids. Luckily, they like real life stuff much more than virtual stuff.

Golf is like crack for many of us too. LOL.

Seriously, what is Minecraft?  My 12 year doesn't even know what it is.

It's one of the most popular games of this generation, if not all time.

[Hubijerk]

I don't have kids, but I was one, I deal with them on some of the worst says of their lives (trauma/ICU), and I am still a big one.  So here are my thoughts:

#1 the point of the range is to get better.  I know he's probably working on specific movements and techniques but I personally look at days when everything is off as an opportunity.  What makes a great player is the ability to fix the issue on the fly or to make due with a B or even C game.  I finish every range session by playing a few holes, either for real or on the range imagining the holes and the shots I need to hit.  There will be days when you couldn't hit water if you fell out of a boat, you still need to be ale to score.

So this mentality takes the kid away from being pissed off about what he can't do, and really get's him focused on what he can, and has to do.

#2 I have found, when working on technique, a mat, a net and a mirror are much more effective than a range session.  There is no concern about ballflight, or looking stupid.  There is no time constraint, there is no feeling like you're wasting time.  I can go hit balls at 3am in my garage if I want.  And it's much easier to focus on technique and positions there, then out on the range.  Plus I use really soft old balls so as a bonus they don't wear my clubfaces.  This would allow practice time that didn't interfere with something else he wanted to do, because if he's at the range, and his friends are playing or doing other stuff, he may not want to be there and will not have the focus.

#3 Even though they're kids, they're still just like little adults (I find most adults are worse to deal with anyway).  I typically talk to kids like I talk to my friends or how I would talk to myself (with much less swearing).

As far as not listening or following you're instruction, you have to prove you're competency and earn their trust.  They go to a coach and they trust, they get advice from another pro or really good player, they trust.  You wouldn't take advice from some dope on the range who's regurgitating tips he heard from someone else, but Lee Trevino... You'd trust and listen.  For example the kid is quick from the top and is ballooning the ball... The task is not to stop hitting it too high... The task is to hit it low, how do we do that... The kid likely has the knowledge and deep down knows his impulse is wrong, but it's easier to just keep doing it and whine than it is to do the hard work and change.... I'd tell the kid that, and he would get mad, for 5 minutes.. and then realize he has to make a change to get a different result.  The key is to stay calm, and rational, and be able to explain and defend you're position.  As he get's more worked up, you get calmer and more rational and practical till he has nowhere to go... Then, he can perhaps begin to channel the fire that was just disappointment into focus and making the changes.

Tha's just my 2 pennies... I could be just talking out of my a**.. I do feel a bit gassy..

Edited by Hubijerk, 28 December 2017 - 10:57 AM.

[VNutz]

Struggles make you better, better at the game and better at how you deal with them in real life. If it was easy everybody could do it.

[8602081]

My son sometimes struggle at the range and gets frustrated..

That's when I usually tell him just to have fun, hit it anyway he wants to and not to take it too seriously..
That's tends to ease his pressure that he puts on himself..

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

8602081, on 28 December 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

My son sometimes struggle at the range and gets frustrated..

That's when I usually tell him just to have fun, hit it anyway he wants to and not to take it too seriously..
That's tends to ease his pressure that he puts on himself..

That’s a good way to keep him interested.

What worries me is seeing Dad's out there acting like Swing coaches. Well meaning intentions, but the absolute worst thing for the kid's Swing and their relationship.

[BeerPerHole]

Lincoln_Arcadia, on 28 December 2017 - 12:53 PM, said:

8602081, on 28 December 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

My son sometimes struggle at the range and gets frustrated..

That's when I usually tell him just to have fun, hit it anyway he wants to and not to take it too seriously..
That's tends to ease his pressure that he puts on himself..

That's a good way to keep him interested.

What worries me is seeing Dad's out there acting like Swing coaches. Well meaning intentions, but the absolute worst thing for the kid's Swing and their relationship.

Yeah. I remain guarded against that. I only know a couple factors in his swing worth mentioning - at most.

But, I'll tell you what: This kid has got one hell of a swing. Often when we are at the range people nearby will stop hitting balls and take a break just to watch him hit balls. Heck, sometimes they'll buy him a bucket of balls! He's at a competition-prep golf camp this week and was told that his swing reminds them of Justin Thomas, and I can see that too. Now, this is the swing he pretty much started with. How? He went with me for several years to hit balls at the range, starting at the age of 4. In all that time I only taught him two things. In year 2 I taught him the grip (which he finally started using in year 3). Then, I taught him how a good lag felt. When he first visited a pro, after a couple sessions the pro said, "I'm not messing with his swing." So, I'm not messing with his swing, either. As Clint Eastwood said in movies, "A man's gotta know his limitations."

[franklin15]

let him figure it out. He will have to if he ever plays tournaments.

[jollysammy]

When my son started playing baseball I was reluctantly recruited to be a T-ball coach.  about 10 minutes before the end of practice he ran off into right field and the other boys said "whats wrong".  I ran after him and realized he was upset because for the first time in his 5 years, his dad was helping and talking to every kid on the team except him.   I looked him in the eye and said the following.  We have a short time here with the team, you and I can work on baseball on our own, but your team  needs us now to get better and I need you to help me get them better by being an example for them of how to play the game.  And if you can't handle that, then I can't coach any longer.  I was giving a 5 year old an ultimatum.  It worked, he eventually became one of the best in the league and applied this to all sports.  

As for golf, I always felt that the best range teacher was his muscle back blades, they honed his accuracy because he was forced to listen to them with every mishit as the painful shock came up the shaft into his hands.  It's funny to see his teammates hit large buckets of balls at the range constantly hitting bad and good shots in an attempt to groove in their swing.   He never hits more than a small bucket and goes through each club.  I just sit and watch.  If over the course of  months I notice  any off flight tendencies I take in account if its another growth spurt and having my own bender, I bend his irons now to correct the flight.  He is so precise with his ball striking that I now know that when something is off, it's because something physically has changed, not that he suddenly got stupid.  I can't play anywhere near his level, but I can function well as chauffeur, club fitter, video analysis, part time caddy and other support functions.

Last month one of the boys on his golf team asked him who he could recommend as a good golf fitter.  My son said, he didn't know, he just said, my dad will just all of a sudden hand me clubs to use and if they work better, I use them...

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[jollysammy]

I'm not sure I answered the OPs question.   But I'm reminded of something I learned  a long time ago.

Those who can't do...teach!

All that aside, I generally ask my son what happens during any shot and he will explain how he contacted it and what he was trying to do.  I just research a lot about shot trajectory and what influences it and we have a discussion.   It's a dual learning experience because he uses an ultra strong grip and there is not much out there on how to exactly implement it.

[leezer99]

jollysammy, on 22 February 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

I'm not sure I answered the OPs question.   But I'm reminded of something I learned  a long time ago.

Those who can't do...teach!

All that aside, I generally ask my son what happens during any shot and he will explain how he contacted it and what he was trying to do.  I just research a lot about shot trajectory and what influences it and we have a discussion.   It's a dual learning experience because he uses an ultra strong grip and there is not much out there on how to exactly implement it.

Zach Johnson and Paul Azinger are the two guys I can think of that have strong grips.  Both have had great careers.

[jollysammy]

My son's grip is a little stronger in the right hand than Azinger's.  Ironically, if you lift your hands toward your chest with the club in the air like a baseball bat, my son's grip would look like you were gripping a baseball bat.  It's a Power grip and a hook grip unless you have a large hip turn and shaft slant which is what he does.  Its a more rotary power swing.  That's also why he uses irons that are 1/2 inch over length even though he's only 5'6-7".  His ballfight is really high, so he comes into greens with very little roll, usually hop and stop.

[KYMAR]

https://youtu.be/kb0zYOuilAk

[leezer99]

KYMAR, on 22 February 2018 - 10:36 AM, said:

https://youtu.be/kb0zYOuilAk

I love SG but that six putt had me rolling.  Poor guy was pleading for the ball to go in.