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No more viewer rule call ins - per USGA/R&A (Merged)

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#1 pureroll

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 07:34 AM

Yea,  good for all.  No more arm chair refs.

http://www.golfchann...ewer-call-ins//


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#2 bullie76

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 07:40 AM

About time.
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#3 North Butte

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 07:47 AM

View Postbullie76, on 11 December 2017 - 07:40 AM, said:

About time.

I know. How was that ever even a thing?
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#4 Sean2

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 07:53 AM

Good. :-)
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#5 Outlier

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 08:03 AM

Caught the discussion on Golf Channel this morning:  USGA/R&A decided new protocol -will assign Tournament Official during play to watch video in booth for "available information" with which to make rulings.  "call-ins, email-ins etc. from 3rd parties will non longer be considered.

Brandel- thumbs-up because it eliminates the "double jeopardy" like Lexi got. (Assessed penalty + additional 2 shot penalty for wrong scorecard).

Damron- "on the fence" - because they accept "some" video as "available information" but would ignore obvious evidence from "a spectators cell phone video" for example.  Damron seemed to be leaning towards relying solely on the integrity of fellow competitors to "protect the field".


Personally, I like getting rid of the "call-in" rules nonsense mostly because the anonymity of it flys  in the face of my American born sense of fairness. For example -anytime Lexi can't know who her "accuser" is I am dubious of their motives and agendas.  I have always suspected that someone in her group made that call or caused it to be made...(either a player or caddie).  Further I believe they didn't have the fortitude to deal with it on the spot so they "stewed" over it...or they intentionally waited for maximum effect.  Either way, the USGA did the game a disservice, by "hiding" all the available information- (which would have included identifying the accuser).


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#6 15th Club

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 08:13 AM

I am sorry to see this change.  I fully understand that baseball, football and basketball would never countenance people calling in what they saw.  I don't expect, or want, golf to be anything like professional football, baseball or basketball.  

I confess to taking some pleasure in all of the general sports fans who freaked out over someone like David Eger, who has forgotten more Rules of Golf information than most people will ever know, calling in to people he knew at Augusta with what he absolutely and clearly understood was a Rules violation with Tiger Woods on the 15th hole.

I learned from these Rules issues.  And all that I ever wanted was the correct Rules result.  I never viewed golf as a passive pro-sports entertainment; I viewed golf as a large community, and that viewers who were knowledgeable about the Rules had as much right as anybody -- indeed, a responsibility -- to point out Rules violations.

And I never, ever understood any risk from that state of affairs.  TV viewers don't assess penalties.  All that TV viewers do, is to call out facts as they see them (and as they are inevitably recorded on digital video).  It is only players and tournament officials who call penalties.  To ignore viewer calls is to say effectively, "We don't want to be aware of all of the facts."

What is going to happen, when a television announcer -- not a fan at home -- sees a Rules infraction on his monitor, and says something about it?  What if Mike Davis is sitting next to the announcer when that announcer sees a violation?  What if a retired tour player is sitting at home, watching the event, and calls that announcer, who is sitting next to Mike Davis?  Golf does not have umpires everywhere.  Golf is not like other sports.

A Rules violation is a Rules violation is a Rules violation.  It doesn't become "not a violation" depending on who notices it.

This seems like yet another dumb occasion on which dumb sports fans and dumb sports writers who are only the most casual golfers (and whose knowledge of the Rules is dangerously low-level) have stampeded the USGA, the R&A and the tours into a public relations decision.

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#7 bladehunter

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 08:26 AM

so glad to see this happen....  had to happen for the game to survive on TV.... only a matter of time before some a** at home decided a major by holding a call until after the fact and dinging the player with penalty plus incorrect card....  too much grey area for the betting houses to gain from possibly by giving them a shred of control in the outcomes...   If they wanted to abolish the incorrect card rule i might have a different opinion... maybe...  BUT doing that destroys the "self policed" ideals of the game.... its imperfect sure.. but at its core it better to let some calls be missed than to bastardize the whole game by allowing people at home to decide outcomes....
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#8 Swisstrader98

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 08:28 AM

Subject says it all, but for me a welcome relief if it happens.

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#9 Sean2

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 08:30 AM

View Post15th Club, on 11 December 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

I am sorry to see this change.  I fully understand that baseball, football and basketball would never countenance people calling in what they saw.  I don't expect, or want, golf to be anything like professional football, baseball or basketball.  

I confess to taking some pleasure in all of the general sports fans who freaked out over someone like David Eger, who has forgotten more Rules of Golf information than most people will ever know, calling in to people he knew at Augusta with what he absolutely and clearly understood was a Rules violation with Tiger Woods on the 15th hole.

I learned from these Rules issues.  And all that I ever wanted was the correct Rules result.  I never viewed golf as a passive pro-sports entertainment; I viewed golf as a large community, and that viewers who were knowledgeable about the Rules had as much right as anybody -- indeed, a responsibility -- to point out Rules violations.

And I never, ever understood any risk from that state of affairs.  TV viewers don't assess penalties.  All that TV viewers do, is to call out facts as they see them (and as they are inevitably recorded on digital video).  It is only players and tournament officials who call penalties.  To ignore viewer calls is to say effectively, "We don't want to be aware of all of the facts."

What is going to happen, when a television announcer -- not a fan at home -- sees a Rules infraction on his monitor, and says something about it?  What if Mike Davis is sitting next to the announcer when that announcer sees a violation?  What if a retired tour player is sitting at home, watching the event, and calls that announcer, who is sitting next to Mike Davis?  Golf does not have umpires everywhere.  Golf is not like other sports.

A Rules violation is a Rules violation is a Rules violation.  It doesn't become "not a violation" depending on who notices it.

This seems like yet another dumb occasion on which dumb sports fans and dumb sports writers who are only the most casual golfers (and whose knowledge of the Rules is dangerously low-level) have stampeded the USGA, the R&A and the tours into a public relations decision.

So, as of the first of next year, the USGA, R&A, PGA Tour, LPGA Tour, European Tour, PGA of America and all related tours under their respective umbrellas will adopt protocols that:
  • Assign one or more officials to monitor the video broadcast of a competition to help identify and resolve rules issues as they arise;
  •   Discontinue any steps to facilitate or consider viewer call-ins as part of the rules decision process.
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#10 Popeye64

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 08:32 AM

I'm surprised it took this long.


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#11 pureroll

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 08:39 AM

View Post15th Club, on 11 December 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

This seems like yet another dumb occasion on which dumb sports fans and dumb sports writers who are only the most casual golfers (and whose knowledge of the Rules is dangerously low-level) have stampeded the USGA, the R&A and the tours into a public relations decision.

LOL i'm offended calling me dumb.......a little humility here dude. Too bad you are in the minority.  Golf is struggling to keep a solid base of growing the game and these instances on TV have made the casual golfer shake their head.  I think the tour and the tour players are fully capable of being jury and judge without our/your input.  It is good to know they are smarter than you.

Edited by pureroll, 11 December 2017 - 08:40 AM.


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#12 MattyO1984

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 08:41 AM

View Post15th Club, on 11 December 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

I am sorry to see this change.  I fully understand that baseball, football and basketball would never countenance people calling in what they saw.  I don't expect, or want, golf to be anything like professional football, baseball or basketball.  

I confess to taking some pleasure in all of the general sports fans who freaked out over someone like David Eger, who has forgotten more Rules of Golf information than most people will ever know, calling in to people he knew at Augusta with what he absolutely and clearly understood was a Rules violation with Tiger Woods on the 15th hole.

I learned from these Rules issues.  And all that I ever wanted was the correct Rules result.  I never viewed golf as a passive pro-sports entertainment; I viewed golf as a large community, and that viewers who were knowledgeable about the Rules had as much right as anybody -- indeed, a responsibility -- to point out Rules violations.

And I never, ever understood any risk from that state of affairs.  TV viewers don't assess penalties.  All that TV viewers do, is to call out facts as they see them (and as they are inevitably recorded on digital video).  It is only players and tournament officials who call penalties.  To ignore viewer calls is to say effectively, "We don't want to be aware of all of the facts."

What is going to happen, when a television announcer -- not a fan at home -- sees a Rules infraction on his monitor, and says something about it?  What if Mike Davis is sitting next to the announcer when that announcer sees a violation?  What if a retired tour player is sitting at home, watching the event, and calls that announcer, who is sitting next to Mike Davis?  Golf does not have umpires everywhere.  Golf is not like other sports.

A Rules violation is a Rules violation is a Rules violation.  It doesn't become "not a violation" depending on who notices it.

This seems like yet another dumb occasion on which dumb sports fans and dumb sports writers who are only the most casual golfers (and whose knowledge of the Rules is dangerously low-level) have stampeded the USGA, the R&A and the tours into a public relations decision.

You'll be sailing against the wind with this one I suspect!
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#13 Popeye64

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 08:45 AM

View Post15th Club, on 11 December 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

I am sorry to see this change.  I fully understand that baseball, football and basketball would never countenance people calling in what they saw.  I don't expect, or want, golf to be anything like professional football, baseball or basketball.  

I confess to taking some pleasure in all of the general sports fans who freaked out over someone like David Eger, who has forgotten more Rules of Golf information than most people will ever know, calling in to people he knew at Augusta with what he absolutely and clearly understood was a Rules violation with Tiger Woods on the 15th hole.

I learned from these Rules issues.  And all that I ever wanted was the correct Rules result.  I never viewed golf as a passive pro-sports entertainment; I viewed golf as a large community, and that viewers who were knowledgeable about the Rules had as much right as anybody -- indeed, a responsibility -- to point out Rules violations.

And I never, ever understood any risk from that state of affairs.  TV viewers don't assess penalties.  All that TV viewers do, is to call out facts as they see them (and as they are inevitably recorded on digital video).  It is only players and tournament officials who call penalties.  To ignore viewer calls is to say effectively, "We don't want to be aware of all of the facts."

What is going to happen, when a television announcer -- not a fan at home -- sees a Rules infraction on his monitor, and says something about it?  What if Mike Davis is sitting next to the announcer when that announcer sees a violation?  What if a retired tour player is sitting at home, watching the event, and calls that announcer, who is sitting next to Mike Davis?  Golf does not have umpires everywhere.  Golf is not like other sports.

A Rules violation is a Rules violation is a Rules violation.  It doesn't become "not a violation" depending on who notices it.

This seems like yet another dumb occasion on which dumb sports fans and dumb sports writers who are only the most casual golfers (and whose knowledge of the Rules is dangerously low-level) have stampeded the USGA, the R&A and the tours into a public relations decision.
I just don't share your enthusiasm in the arm chair referee position.
Over and over these call in infractions, resulted in tournament changing decisions were from players who made minute mistakes with zero I'll intent. An inch here, a wrong drop there or a ball that barely moved, only picked up by a zoomed in camera or slow motion.
And then you taking great joy in these decisions after a round has been played??
I understand your position that rules are rules but where there is no intent,,,

I'm glad it's gone!


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#14 jayman2982

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 08:50 AM

The issue is it is unfair to the bigger names. I do find it ridiculous for someone watching tv to call in a penalty however not enough to grow a fuss. However, the guy who tees off at 10 in the morning with no one watching and not one camera on him is allowed to make unnoticed mistakes the guys leading the tournament are not. If every swing of every player was recorded and broadcast (something Id like) I'd have little to argue with. Since this is not the case there should be no called in rules infraction.
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#15 15th Club

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 08:52 AM

View PostMattyO1984, on 11 December 2017 - 08:41 AM, said:

...

You'll be sailing against the wind with this one I suspect!

Doesn't bother me in the slightest.  I think that there are a lot of casual golfers who freak out about the notion of a ball rollback too.  I'm not looking to make friends.  I'm looking to be right and win arguments.

View Postpureroll, on 11 December 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

View Post15th Club, on 11 December 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

This seems like yet another dumb occasion on which dumb sports fans and dumb sports writers who are only the most casual golfers (and whose knowledge of the Rules is dangerously low-level) have stampeded the USGA, the R&A and the tours into a public relations decision.

LOL i'm offended calling me dumb.......a little humility here dude. Too bad you are in the minority.  Golf is struggling to keep a solid base of growing the game and these instances on TV have made the casual golfer shake their head.  I think the tour and the tour players are fully capable of being jury and judge without our/your input.  It is good to know they are smarter than you.

I don't care the least bit about being in "the minority."  I expect that we proponents of a ball rollback are "in the minority" as well.  I don't want to be popular; I want to be right.

What I don't understand about your reply is what exactly is the problem with making "the casual golfer shake his head"?  If I see what I think is a Rules violation, and notify an official, why is that wrong?  I assuredly won't call any penalty; either the player will himself, or a tournament official, armed with all of the facts (including the facts which I supplied and they did not have) will assess a penalty.  Where is the terrible problem in any of that?


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#16 sandy

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 08:55 AM

Long overdue. People that call in always seemed to me to have some mental deficiency. Thrilled that they could impact the outcome of a game they could only dream about playing as well as the “offender”. Don’t give me the “protect the game” crap. Always wondered how often these guardians of the game stretched the rules when they were playing. Of course since they know the rules, any infraction would have to be on purpose since they obviously aren’t on TV.  A sad day for the pixel peepers alone in “mommies” basement protecting the honor of the great game of golf.

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#17 15th Club

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 08:57 AM

Popeye:  I hope we can quickly dispense with "intent" as a basis for all Rules violations.  Intent has almost nothing to do with any of the Rules of Golf.  There are a few exceptions, of course, but the fewer the better.  I don't want golf rules to be based on "intent," thereby necessitating an official to somehow gauge a player's intent.  Let's please leave "intent" out of it altogether.

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#18 BlackDiamondPar5

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:00 AM

Great move on so many levels. Will keep pro golf from looking like a joke. No more  controversial penalties over minutia seen by outsiders on HDTV and Neuters the couch potato busy bodies.

Edited by BlackDiamondPar5, 11 December 2017 - 09:01 AM.


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#19 pureroll

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:03 AM

View Post15th Club, on 11 December 2017 - 08:52 AM, said:

View PostMattyO1984, on 11 December 2017 - 08:41 AM, said:

...

You'll be sailing against the wind with this one I suspect!

Doesn't bother me in the slightest.  I think that there are a lot of casual golfers who freak out about the notion of a ball rollback too.  I'm not looking to make friends.  I'm looking to be right and win arguments.

View Postpureroll, on 11 December 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

View Post15th Club, on 11 December 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

This seems like yet another dumb occasion on which dumb sports fans and dumb sports writers who are only the most casual golfers (and whose knowledge of the Rules is dangerously low-level) have stampeded the USGA, the R&A and the tours into a public relations decision.

LOL i'm offended calling me dumb.......a little humility here dude. Too bad you are in the minority.  Golf is struggling to keep a solid base of growing the game and these instances on TV have made the casual golfer shake their head.  I think the tour and the tour players are fully capable of being jury and judge without our/your input.  It is good to know they are smarter than you.

I don't care the least bit about being in "the minority."  I expect that we proponents of a ball rollback are "in the minority" as well.  I don't want to be popular; I want to be right.

What I don't understand about your reply is what exactly is the problem with making "the casual golfer shake his head"?  If I see what I think is a Rules violation, and notify an official, why is that wrong?  I assuredly won't call any penalty; either the player will himself, or a tournament official, armed with all of the facts (including the facts which I supplied and they did not have) will assess a penalty.  Where is the terrible problem in any of that?

Why do you think you have to supply the facts and inject yourself into the game?  Like I said before the players and the tours are fully capable without you supplying the facts.  The tour players already know who to watch closely and will handle over time, without the "casual golfer" knowing.

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#20 15th Club

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:06 AM

View Postsandy, on 11 December 2017 - 08:55 AM, said:

Long overdue. People that call in always seemed to me to have some mental deficiency. Thrilled that they could impact the outcome of a game they could only dream about playing as well as the "offender". Don't give me the "protect the game" crap. Always wondered how often these guardians of the game stretched the rules when they were playing. Of course since they know the rules, any infraction would have to be on purpose since they obviously aren't on TV.  A sad day for the pixel peepers alone in "mommies" basement protecting the honor of the great game of golf.

This is the popular -- and wildly inaccurate -- notion.  That a basically ignorant fan at home can call a penalty.  That is comprehensively untrue.  The most notorious call-in incidents have featured some of the best Rules minds in modern golf history.  David Eger's call to Augusta, which I already mentioned, is a prime example.  Here is Eger's Wikipedia page, which is the closest thing I can get to an online resume:

https://en.wikipedia...wiki/David_Eger

No casual fan, in the history of golf, has ever called a penalty in a major championship.  All that any viewer has ever done is to call in with a report of something they saw.  They usually don't even call a tournament official.  (Eger did, because he knew and had worked with many of them.  He was one of the top rules officials in the game.)  They usually call in to a television network.  A message is taken.  Video is reviewed by television staff and rules officials.  A player is interviewed.  A fellow competitor is interviewed.  There is a consultation.  And only then, a penalty.

A question for all; does anyone know of a time when an incorrect penalty was called as a result of a viewer's call?  Ever?


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#21 DON SVO

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:08 AM

View Post15th Club, on 11 December 2017 - 09:06 AM, said:

View Postsandy, on 11 December 2017 - 08:55 AM, said:

Long overdue. People that call in always seemed to me to have some mental deficiency. Thrilled that they could impact the outcome of a game they could only dream about playing as well as the "offender". Don't give me the "protect the game" crap. Always wondered how often these guardians of the game stretched the rules when they were playing. Of course since they know the rules, any infraction would have to be on purpose since they obviously aren't on TV.  A sad day for the pixel peepers alone in "mommies" basement protecting the honor of the great game of golf.

This is the popular -- and wildly inaccurate -- notion.  That a basically ignorant fan at home can call a penalty.  That is comprehensively untrue.  The most notorious call-in incidents have featured some of the best Rules minds in modern golf history.  David Eger's call to Augusta, which I already mentioned, is a prime example.  Here is Eger's Wikipedia page, which is the closest thing I can get to an online resume:

https://en.wikipedia...wiki/David_Eger

No casual fan, in the history of golf, has ever called a penalty in a major championship.  All that any viewer has ever done is to call in with a report of something they saw.  They usually don't even call a tournament official.  (Eger did, because he knew and had worked with many of them.  He was one of the top rules officials in the game.)  They usually call in to a television network.  A message is taken.  Video is reviewed by television staff and rules officials.  A player is interviewed.  A fellow competitor is interviewed.  There is a consultation.  And only then, a penalty.

A question for all; does anyone know of a time when an incorrect penalty was called as a result of a viewer's call?  Ever?

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Edited by DON SVO, 11 December 2017 - 09:08 AM.

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#22 new2g0lf

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:10 AM

The decision was long overdue and only necessary since the move to HD cameras and broadcasts.  You could barely make out peoples faces on the old NTSC broadcasts, no less whether a ball moved but with HD and all the cameras following around golfers it became a problem.  As we move into 4K or higher, this problem would only get worse

The problem I had with giving armchair rules officials the ability to call in was the disparity of the coverage.  The most popular golfers and those in the lead were placed under much greater scrutiny than others who could be just as guilty of rules infractions but would never get caught because they didn't have multiple HD cameras following their every move and getting aired to home viewers.  

I willingly accept that some infractions may be missed in order to ensure a better sense of fairness is applied overall to the field.
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#23 North Butte

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:10 AM

And if you televised every jury trial in every courtroom in the country, I'm sure the "best legal minds" in the world could find a mistake the judge made at some point, almost every time.
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#24 MidwestGolfBum

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:11 AM

View Postjayman2982, on 11 December 2017 - 08:50 AM, said:

The issue is it is unfair to the bigger names. I do find it ridiculous for someone watching tv to call in a penalty however not enough to grow a fuss. However, the guy who tees off at 10 in the morning with no one watching and not one camera on him is allowed to make unnoticed mistakes the guys leading the tournament are not. If every swing of every player was recorded and broadcast (something Id like) I'd have little to argue with. Since this is not the case there should be no called in rules infraction.

This has always been my argument against this. I have zero issue with the fact that it happens, but when not every player is on camera for the entirety of their round based on where they are in the field, it no longer becomes equitable. If every player in the field was on camera for all that they do in a round and somebody was able to watch all of it, then I can agree with the fact that call-ins are fine but until that day happens (and it most likely won't) it should not be something that is allowed.
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#25 MrJones

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:26 AM

View Post15th Club, on 11 December 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

I confess to taking some pleasure in all of the general sports fans who freaked out over someone like David Eger, who has forgotten more Rules of Golf information than most people will ever know, calling in to people he knew at Augusta with what he absolutely and clearly understood was a Rules violation with Tiger Woods on the 15th hole.

This seems like yet another dumb occasion on which dumb sports fans and dumb sports writers who are only the most casual golfers (and whose knowledge of the Rules is dangerously low-level) have stampeded the USGA, the R&A and the tours into a public relations decision.


Doesn't bother me in the slightest.  I think that there are a lot of casual golfers who freak out about the notion of a ball rollback too.  I'm not looking to make friends.  I'm looking to be right and win arguments.


I don't care the least bit about being in "the minority."  I expect that we proponents of a ball rollback are "in the minority" as well.  I don't want to be popular; I want to be right.


This is the popular -- and wildly inaccurate -- notion.  That a basically ignorant fan at home can call a penalty.

You don't paint a very humble picture of yourself nor do you defend yourself well against an earlier statement that said some seem to have a mental disorder.

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#26 15th Club

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:33 AM

View Postnew2g0lf, on 11 December 2017 - 09:10 AM, said:

The decision was long overdue and only necessary since the move to HD cameras and broadcasts.  You could barely make out peoples faces on the old NTSC broadcasts, no less whether a ball moved but with HD and all the cameras following around golfers it became a problem.  As we move into 4K or higher, this problem would only get worse

The problem I had with giving armchair rules officials the ability to call in was the disparity of the coverage.  The most popular golfers and those in the lead were placed under much greater scrutiny than others who could be just as guilty of rules infractions but would never get caught because they didn't have multiple HD cameras following their every move and getting aired to home viewers.  

I willingly accept that some infractions may be missed in order to ensure a better sense of fairness is applied overall to the field.

So that is a notion with some merit.  But it is a bit limited.  Yes; in the era that Tiger was at his peak (and perhaps even still) television loved Tiger and showed every shot he played.  And so maybe Tiger got some additional scrutiny.  (And a huge gallery who could roll boulders in the Arizona desert, too!)  And lesser players were ignored by telecast directors.  But ordinarily, they are showing all of the important players, and all of the important shots in a tournament.  And recording them.  And really, aren't those the ones that really count?  Do we honestly care so much about a guy who is finishing 20th, or 50th?

I am reminded of a story from Augusta.  Long, long ago a player had an on-course question about something and one of the Masters Tournament committeemen came over to provide a ruling.  The player described the question, and then the committeeman asked, "Where do you stand right now?"  The player replied, "I'm five over."  "Oh, hell," the committeeman said, "You can do whatever you want in that case."

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#27 Man_O_War

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:33 AM

we have to rely on social media to catch the cheaters who were missed on the tv broadcast..hopefully audiences are alert with their phone cams


the 2 shot only penalty..makes sense though...even though i enjoyed the effects of the original rule as much as I loved the stymie.. I love snooker so..

Edited by Man_O_War, 11 December 2017 - 09:37 AM.

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#28 North Butte

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:34 AM

View Post15th Club, on 11 December 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

View Postnew2g0lf, on 11 December 2017 - 09:10 AM, said:

The decision was long overdue and only necessary since the move to HD cameras and broadcasts.  You could barely make out peoples faces on the old NTSC broadcasts, no less whether a ball moved but with HD and all the cameras following around golfers it became a problem.  As we move into 4K or higher, this problem would only get worse

The problem I had with giving armchair rules officials the ability to call in was the disparity of the coverage.  The most popular golfers and those in the lead were placed under much greater scrutiny than others who could be just as guilty of rules infractions but would never get caught because they didn't have multiple HD cameras following their every move and getting aired to home viewers.  

I willingly accept that some infractions may be missed in order to ensure a better sense of fairness is applied overall to the field.

So that is a notion with some merit.  But it is a bit limited.  Yes; in the era that Tiger was at his peak (and perhaps even still) television loved Tiger and showed every shot he played.  And so maybe Tiger got some additional scrutiny.  (And a huge gallery who could roll boulders in the Arizona desert, too!)  And lesser players were ignored by telecast directors.  But ordinarily, they are showing all of the important players, and all of the important shots in a tournament.  And recording them.  And really, aren't those the ones that really count?  Do we honestly care so much about a guy who is finishing 20th, or 50th?

I am reminded of a story from Augusta.  Long, long ago a player had an on-course question about something and one of the Masters Tournament committeemen came over to provide a ruling.  The player described the question, and then the committeeman asked, "Where do you stand right now?"  The player replied, "I'm five over."  "Oh, hell," the committeeman said, "You can do whatever you want in that case."

That "committeeman" was Bobby Jones' father aka "The Colonel".
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#29 bogeypro

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:39 AM

I think it's great.  

Also, lets not overlook the new rule to not assess the 2 stroke penalty for signing an incorrect score card for a penalty the player didn't know they had committed.

Finally, I wish Golf channel and people on this forum would stop using Lexi as an example... she cheated and deserved to have the strokes called on her.  I wouldn't be surprised if someone in her playing group called it in on her.  I'm sure they knew the LPGA wouldn't come down on their media darling Lexi for possible cheating violations.
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#30 cardoustie

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:41 AM

View PostMrJones, on 11 December 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

View Post15th Club, on 11 December 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

I confess to taking some pleasure in all of the general sports fans who freaked out over someone like David Eger, who has forgotten more Rules of Golf information than most people will ever know, calling in to people he knew at Augusta with what he absolutely and clearly understood was a Rules violation with Tiger Woods on the 15th hole.

This seems like yet another dumb occasion on which dumb sports fans and dumb sports writers who are only the most casual golfers (and whose knowledge of the Rules is dangerously low-level) have stampeded the USGA, the R&A and the tours into a public relations decision.


Doesn't bother me in the slightest.  I think that there are a lot of casual golfers who freak out about the notion of a ball rollback too.  I'm not looking to make friends.  I'm looking to be right and win arguments.


I don't care the least bit about being in "the minority."  I expect that we proponents of a ball rollback are "in the minority" as well.  I don't want to be popular; I want to be right.


This is the popular -- and wildly inaccurate -- notion.  That a basically ignorant fan at home can call a penalty.

You don't paint a very humble picture of yourself nor do you defend yourself well against an earlier statement that said some seem to have a mental disorder.

15th CLUB .. c'mon dude.  The world is not purely black and white, get off your ridiculously high horse.  Intent, parity, fairness, equity etc etc are big parts of the honour of the game.

Step back and realize that the rules are overly complicated as it is and this is part of the ongoing process to simplify for the the masses and to help make golf more attractive/less intimidating for potential new players and existing players that are not rules gurus

This is a great move, surprisingly, by the USGA etc, they've blown it recently with long putters and grooves

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