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Launch monitors


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#1 Golfingdawg19

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 03:09 PM

Iím thinking about getting a launch monitor for Christmas. My plan is to use it mainly to keep up with swing speed and figure out my club distances. I was told the ES 14 was a good option. Iíve also heard good things about the Swing Caddie 2. Trying to keep the cost under $500. Anyone have any comments on either of those two units?


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#2 Golfrnut

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 04:01 PM

You are not getting a launch monitor with any real accuracy.  If you are looking to get accurate measurements, you need to forget about those two mentioned.  They don't really measure anything accurately to give you anything more than a random guess based on a lot of predetermined calculations.  At minimum you would have to look at something like the FS MEVO or Skytrak and go up from there.  Neither of those are without some nuances to using them.  The others like the ES 14 are merely toys that don't collect near enough data to give you accurate numbers.
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#3 Golfingdawg19

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 04:15 PM

I’m mainly interested in swing speed and club distances. Both of those devices should be able to handle that.

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#4 Golfrnut

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 05:13 PM

Nope, you are going to get nothing but a random guess as far as distance goes from either of those. They do not measure ball spin, launch angles, etc thatís needed to even begin to accurately calculate distance.
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#5 Golfingdawg19

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 10:50 AM

http://www.ernestspo...m/es14-pro.html

The unit offers a wide range of statistical information including club speed, launch angle, ball speed, smash factor, spin rate & distance.



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#6 Krt22

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 11:03 AM

The ES14 pro only measures ball speed and club speed, all other parameters (mainly spin and launch angle) are estimates based on what club you select and it uses those estimates to calculate carry distance.

Long story short, its not very accurate for dialing in distances for most golfers.

I agree with golfrnut, I'd get a Mevo or Skytrack

Edited by Krt22, 10 December 2017 - 11:05 AM.


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#7 Golfrnut

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 11:19 AM

 Golfingdawg19, on 10 December 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

http://www.ernestspo...m/es14-pro.html

The unit offers a wide range of statistical information including club speed, launch angle, ball speed, smash factor, spin rate & distance.

And their advertisements are completely misleading.  It measures almost none of that as Krt said.
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#8 robs291

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 06:52 AM

 Golfingdawg19, on 09 December 2017 - 03:09 PM, said:

I'm thinking about getting a launch monitor for Christmas. My plan is to use it mainly to keep up with swing speed and figure out my club distances. I was told the ES 14 was a good option. I've also heard good things about the Swing Caddie 2. Trying to keep the cost under $500. Anyone have any comments on either of those two units?
I tested the Swing Caddie against Trackman during a lesson indoors last winter. I entered all my lofts in the SC and the irons were consistently +/- 1-2 yards of carry on full shots compared to Trackman, which is close enough for me at my level. On an outdoor range compared to my laser got the same results. I didn't test short shots (30-70 yards ) compared to Trackmak, but on the range most looked reasonable with a few suspect as by my eye and laser. As the clubs got longer the accuracy went down, but even my 4 iron was mostly within reason. I don't recall how my hybrids tested, but the driver and 3W vs Trackman...forget it. Once in a while it was close, but the driver and 3W could be off as much as 20-30 yards. Results outside vs laser were similar.

I got it because I bought new irons and it helped me with my new yardages. It's an OK toy but one size doesn't fit all. In that price range I am not sure what will. I don't regret the purchase and do use it on occasion for my irons only.

Hope that helps.

Hope that helps.

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#9 Skedaddle

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 04:21 PM

But you might have standard launch and spin that 5hey use in their modelling. Driver spin and launch massively affects distance so to just base on ballspeed is erroneous

 robs291, on 13 December 2017 - 06:52 AM, said:

 Golfingdawg19, on 09 December 2017 - 03:09 PM, said:

I'm thinking about getting a launch monitor for Christmas. My plan is to use it mainly to keep up with swing speed and figure out my club distances. I was told the ES 14 was a good option. I've also heard good things about the Swing Caddie 2. Trying to keep the cost under $500. Anyone have any comments on either of those two units?
I tested the Swing Caddie against Trackman during a lesson indoors last winter. I entered all my lofts in the SC and the irons were consistently +/- 1-2 yards of carry on full shots compared to Trackman, which is close enough for me at my level. On an outdoor range compared to my laser got the same results. I didn't test short shots (30-70 yards ) compared to Trackmak, but on the range most looked reasonable with a few suspect as by my eye and laser. As the clubs got longer the accuracy went down, but even my 4 iron was mostly within reason. I don't recall how my hybrids tested, but the driver and 3W vs Trackman...forget it. Once in a while it was close, but the driver and 3W could be off as much as 20-30 yards. Results outside vs laser were similar.

I got it because I bought new irons and it helped me with my new yardages. It's an OK toy but one size doesn't fit all. In that price range I am not sure what will. I don't regret the purchase and do use it on occasion for my irons only.

Hope that helps.

Hope that helps.


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#10 Tzoid

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 11:02 PM

 robs291, on 13 December 2017 - 06:52 AM, said:

 Golfingdawg19, on 09 December 2017 - 03:09 PM, said:

I'm thinking about getting a launch monitor for Christmas. My plan is to use it mainly to keep up with swing speed and figure out my club distances. I was told the ES 14 was a good option. I've also heard good things about the Swing Caddie 2. Trying to keep the cost under $500. Anyone have any comments on either of those two units?
I tested the Swing Caddie against Trackman during a lesson indoors last winter. I entered all my lofts in the SC and the irons were consistently +/- 1-2 yards of carry on full shots compared to Trackman, which is close enough for me at my level. On an outdoor range compared to my laser got the same results. I didn't test short shots (30-70 yards ) compared to Trackmak, but on the range most looked reasonable with a few suspect as by my eye and laser. As the clubs got longer the accuracy went down, but even my 4 iron was mostly within reason. I don't recall how my hybrids tested, but the driver and 3W vs Trackman...forget it. Once in a while it was close, but the driver and 3W could be off as much as 20-30 yards. Results outside vs laser were similar.

I got it because I bought new irons and it helped me with my new yardages. It's an OK toy but one size doesn't fit all. In that price range I am not sure what will. I don't regret the purchase and do use it on occasion for my irons only.

Hope that helps.

Hope that helps.


  Correct me if I'm wrong but Trackman and FlightScope  aren't intended nor do they work indoors hitting into a screen or net .  I was under the impression that the entire flight of the ball needed to be captured for them to accurately provide data.

  Foresight GC2 with HMT or GC Quad supposedly are better indoors and Sky Trak on the lower end.

Edited by Tzoid, 19 December 2017 - 11:06 PM.

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#11 benzenbe

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 09:01 PM

 Tzoid, on 17 December 2017 - 11:02 PM, said:

  Correct me if I'm wrong but Trackman and FlightScope  aren't intended nor do they work indoors hitting into a screen or net .  I was under the impression that the entire flight of
the ball needed to be captured for them to accurately provide data.

  Foresight GC2 with HMT or GC Quad supposedly are better indoors and Sky Trak on the lower end.
Trackman works indoors, but being a radar system it will clearly be much more accurate outdoors.  Foresight's GC Quad is the most accurate indoor system available right now.
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#12 Krt22

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 05:30 PM

 Tzoid, on 17 December 2017 - 11:02 PM, said:

 robs291, on 13 December 2017 - 06:52 AM, said:

 Golfingdawg19, on 09 December 2017 - 03:09 PM, said:

I'm thinking about getting a launch monitor for Christmas. My plan is to use it mainly to keep up with swing speed and figure out my club distances. I was told the ES 14 was a good option. I've also heard good things about the Swing Caddie 2. Trying to keep the cost under $500. Anyone have any comments on either of those two units?
I tested the Swing Caddie against Trackman during a lesson indoors last winter. I entered all my lofts in the SC and the irons were consistently +/- 1-2 yards of carry on full shots compared to Trackman, which is close enough for me at my level. On an outdoor range compared to my laser got the same results. I didn't test short shots (30-70 yards ) compared to Trackmak, but on the range most looked reasonable with a few suspect as by my eye and laser. As the clubs got longer the accuracy went down, but even my 4 iron was mostly within reason. I don't recall how my hybrids tested, but the driver and 3W vs Trackman...forget it. Once in a while it was close, but the driver and 3W could be off as much as 20-30 yards. Results outside vs laser were similar.

I got it because I bought new irons and it helped me with my new yardages. It's an OK toy but one size doesn't fit all. In that price range I am not sure what will. I don't regret the purchase and do use it on occasion for my irons only.

Hope that helps.

Hope that helps.


  Correct me if I'm wrong but Trackman and FlightScope  aren't intended nor do they work indoors hitting into a screen or net .  I was under the impression that the entire flight of
the ball needed to be captured for them to accurately provide data.

  Foresight GC2 with HMT or GC Quad supposedly are better indoors and Sky Trak on the lower end.
They still work, but they require more distance between the radar unit and the net so they can capture enough of the ball flight, and from there distance is calculated based on their ball flight models.  Basically the more of the ball flight that is recorded the more accurate the reading.

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#13 Tzoid

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 12:56 AM

 Golfrnut, on 10 December 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

 Golfingdawg19, on 10 December 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

http://www.ernestspo...m/es14-pro.html

The unit offers a wide range of statistical information including club speed, launch angle, ball speed, smash factor, spin rate & distance.

And their advertisements are completely misleading.  It measures almost none of that as Krt said.

  So the GolfWRX review on the product is misleading as well?  I'm curious if you owned one or have data on the claim it's a "Toy"

       http://www.golfwrx.c...launch-monitor/
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#14 Golfrnut

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 04:48 AM

 Tzoid, on 20 December 2017 - 12:56 AM, said:

 Golfrnut, on 10 December 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

 Golfingdawg19, on 10 December 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

http://www.ernestspo...m/es14-pro.html

The unit offers a wide range of statistical information including club speed, launch angle, ball speed, smash factor, spin rate & distance.

And their advertisements are completely misleading.  It measures almost none of that as Krt said.

  So the GolfWRX review on the product is misleading as well?  I'm curious if you owned one or have data on the claim it's a "Toy"

   http://www.golfwrx.c...launch-monitor/

Not sure what your trying to get at. The WRX article clearly mentions that only head speed and ball speed are measured.  That's it. The other numbers are arbitrary numbers that are not measured...at all. They are there for show, nothing more. And no, they aren't accurate as they measure nothing...you can't say something is accurate based on nothing more than numbers that are randomly thrown out based on the software. That's not accurate, that's random guessing. So yes, they are toys. They do no pbysically measure any data other than ball speed and make a guess on what you might be hitting it.

ES's website is far from forthcoming on how they come to display their data.  Many assume that it works like many of the other Doppler units out there and measures all the data when it fact that is nowhere near the case.  They are preying on the consumer assuming they are getting measured data when it's nothing more than random numbers displayed on screen.

And to answer your other question above in the other post....the only thing the high end Doppler units really have trouble with indoors is spin axis because they do not measure it indoor mode.  That comes into effect when we talk offcenter hits and the gear effect.  Outside of that, the numbers are accurate and comparable to each other as well as the other photo-capture based units.

Edited by Golfrnut, 20 December 2017 - 07:36 AM.

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#15 bbp1

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 07:26 AM

I love my GC Quad. I built an indoor simulator/practice area that has about 10 feet of run room between the point of impact and the screen. Works great. I wish the FSX software  would hurry up and get more depth to it.

I had a Skytrak before the GCQuad and liked it alot too, though it would miss the shot occasionally, and of course doesnt give club head data. I liked the bag mapping feature on Skytrak software


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#16 Tzoid

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 09:52 AM

 Golfrnut, on 20 December 2017 - 04:48 AM, said:

 Tzoid, on 20 December 2017 - 12:56 AM, said:

 Golfrnut, on 10 December 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

 Golfingdawg19, on 10 December 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

http://www.ernestspo...m/es14-pro.html

The unit offers a wide range of statistical information including club speed, launch angle, ball speed, smash factor, spin rate & distance.

And their advertisements are completely misleading.  It measures almost none of that as Krt said.

  So the GolfWRX review on the product is misleading as well?  I'm curious if you owned one or have data on the claim it's a "Toy"

   http://www.golfwrx.c...launch-monitor/

Not sure what your trying to get at. The WRX article clearly mentions that only head speed and ball speed are measured.  That's it. The other numbers are arbitrary numbers that are not measured...at all. They are there for show, nothing more. And no, they aren't accurate as they measure nothing...you can't say something is accurate based on nothing more than numbers that are randomly thrown out based on the software. That's not accurate, that's random guessing. So yes, they are toys. They do no pbysically measure any data other than ball speed and make a guess on what you might be hitting it.

ES's website is far from forthcoming on how they come to display their data.  Many assume that it works like many of the other Doppler units out there and measures all the data when it fact that is nowhere near the case.  They are preying on the consumer assuming they are getting measured data when it's nothing more than random numbers displayed on screen.

And to answer your other question above in the other post....the only thing the high end Doppler units really have trouble with indoors is spin axis because they do not measure it indoor mode.  That comes into effect when we talk offcenter hits and the gear effect.  Outside of that, the numbers are accurate and comparable to each other as well as the other photo-capture based units.


The number being there for just "show" arbitrary or not are pretty damn close to the unit that's not a toy.  I guess it's Snake Oil ?

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#17 Golfrnut

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 10:08 AM

 Tzoid, on 20 December 2017 - 09:52 AM, said:

 Golfrnut, on 20 December 2017 - 04:48 AM, said:

 Tzoid, on 20 December 2017 - 12:56 AM, said:

 Golfrnut, on 10 December 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

 Golfingdawg19, on 10 December 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

http://www.ernestspo...m/es14-pro.html

The unit offers a wide range of statistical information including club speed, launch angle, ball speed, smash factor, spin rate & distance.

And their advertisements are completely misleading.  It measures almost none of that as Krt said.

  So the GolfWRX review on the product is misleading as well?  I'm curious if you owned one or have data on the claim it's a "Toy"

   http://www.golfwrx.c...launch-monitor/

Not sure what your trying to get at. The WRX article clearly mentions that only head speed and ball speed are measured.  That's it. The other numbers are arbitrary numbers that are not measured...at all. They are there for show, nothing more. And no, they aren't accurate as they measure nothing...you can't say something is accurate based on nothing more than numbers that are randomly thrown out based on the software. That's not accurate, that's random guessing. So yes, they are toys. They do no pbysically measure any data other than ball speed and make a guess on what you might be hitting it.

ES's website is far from forthcoming on how they come to display their data.  Many assume that it works like many of the other Doppler units out there and measures all the data when it fact that is nowhere near the case.  They are preying on the consumer assuming they are getting measured data when it's nothing more than random numbers displayed on screen.

And to answer your other question above in the other post....the only thing the high end Doppler units really have trouble with indoors is spin axis because they do not measure it indoor mode.  That comes into effect when we talk offcenter hits and the gear effect.  Outside of that, the numbers are accurate and comparable to each other as well as the other photo-capture based units.


The number being there for just "show" arbitrary or not are pretty damn close to the unit that's not a toy.  I guess it's Snake Oil ?

Posted Image


Seeing as how you don't seem to have any experience with actual units or seeing the results of multiple people on them, I can assure you that when you have a larger demographic of people on a unit, the accuracy of a unit that "guesses" at numbers does not have any real accuracy at all.  Irons, + - a few degrees of launch and +- a couple hundred RPMs of spin do not vary too much in carry distance but total distance and decent angle based on roll can be huge.  And that doesn't mean that the majority of players all launch the ball even within a few degrees of each other as the variance is very spread out, same goes for spin.

Start talking about drivers and the variance becomes very large and not even close to accurate except for a few individuals that might fit into the "default" profile that the ES units have programmed.  Someone just posted a review of the ES16 in another thread.  It's supposed to be their more "advanced" launch monitor, and it's junk in terms of accuracy.  There are plenty of reviews that say the same thing.

There are very large difference between what's out there on the market that is "accurate" and in comparison, the two aren't even close.
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#18 Tzoid

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 10:31 AM

Thanks for the feedback....  So if you don't spend the money for a Flight Scope , Trackman or a Foresight product like GC2 or Quad you're buying a Toy that guesses at the actually outcome based on preset predicted numbers.  

       I'll wait and see what technology brings us in hopefully the near future.  My teaching pro uses Flight Scope and I value what I see when I spend time on it as I'm a very analytical person.  

    spin numbers,  dynamic loft, face angle and attack angle in my opinion tell the real story and drastically can improve ball striking
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#19 Golfrnut

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 10:46 AM

 Tzoid, on 20 December 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

Thanks for the feedback.... So if you don't spend the money for a Flight Scope , Trackman or a Foresight product like GC2 or Quad you're buying a Toy that guesses at the actually outcome based on preset predicted numbers. I'll wait and see what technology brings us in hopefully the near future. My teaching pro uses Flight Scope and I value what I see when I spend time on it as I'm a very analytical person. spin numbers, dynamic loft, face angle and attack angle in my opinion tell the real story and drastically can improve ball striking


Closest you are going to get right now is the MEVO or SKYTRAK if looking for something that is measuring all the right ball data.  Both still have their shortcomings, but that's about as cheap as you can go to this point and get something that collects enough data to make an informed calculation.  Little higher would be the FS XI, some club data would be the XI+, then continue going up from there into the GC2, higher end FS units etc.  I've seen some used X2 units going for 3500-4000.  Accuracy is still going to cost us money....
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Callaway RAZR MBs 4-PW w/ i95 Steelfiber
Callaway MD3 50* & 54*/58* PM grind
Odyssey MXM 1W

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