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Best fix for inside-out path?


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#1 Hackinator

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 10:31 AM

Guys, I struggle with this inside-out, my error is a hook.

I think I finally figured out you have to fix the PATH first before messing w/ clubface.
When I've tried tweaking clubface w/o fixing path it seemed to cause more problems.

So I am focusing only on PATH and not CLUBFACE at the moment.

I read that the Right shoulder moving outward is a good idea if you have in-out path.
The article was saying if you are in-out your right shoulder is traveling down too much and needs to go outward more.

Any thoughts?


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#2 cardoustie

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 10:43 AM

Hackinator

I just fixed this over the last two seasons, have gone from as bad as 15 in to out to 2 and I can also go 2-3 outside in now when I want.  Did some trackman work

Swing wise, my coach had me trying to hit 50 yard cuts

However, what turned the tide were two things

1.  The Malaska move (ie not letting the club lay way down coming into impact)

2.  Rotating my torso (I think right shoulder) hard to the left in my downswing

My days of wild hooks with the driver and thin/fat shots with the irons are gone.   I used to "rock and block" .. and Tom Watson has a great video on youtube when he discovered the SAME THING

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#3 Hackinator

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 11:32 AM

 cardoustie, on 07 December 2017 - 10:43 AM, said:

Hackinator

I just fixed this over the last two seasons, have gone from as bad as 15 in to out to 2 and I can also go 2-3 outside in now when I want.  Did some trackman work

Swing wise, my coach had me trying to hit 50 yard cuts

However, what turned the tide were two things

1.  The Malaska move (ie not letting the club lay way down coming into impact)

2.  Rotating my torso (I think right shoulder) hard to the left in my downswing

My days of wild hooks with the driver and thin/fat shots with the irons are gone.   I used to "rock and block" .. and Tom Watson has a great video on youtube when he discovered the SAME THING

You're on the right track

I actually tried the Malaska move but it does not give me the feeling to drive the right shoulder forward and to the left.
If anything, my right shoulder stays back with the Malaska Move.
In the videos with MM, he never seems to talk about the driving the right shoulder forward.

But I could be misinterpreting the MM move.

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#4 Switter

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:41 PM

You may want to try these drills.

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=fq0zw2Q0IeM

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=I7ibcXrH0L0
Hope is not a solution!

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#5 kowalgolf

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:21 PM

This may sound stupid but it helped me. Tee up at the right of every tee box and aim left. Left fairway left rough and wail away. If you can hit your target you might start hitting a fade. Just tell yourself aim left.


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#6 Cwebb

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:26 PM

 kowalgolf, on 07 December 2017 - 01:21 PM, said:

This may sound stupid but it helped me. Tee up at the right of every tee box and aim left. Left fairway left rough and wail away. If you can hit your target you might start hitting a fade. Just tell yourself aim left.

Yeah, it helps a lot to "force the change".  I would also practice a lot with something place outside the ball, which "promotes" a down the line path.  Nobody wants their club to run into anything, so this practice can really force a change.  Instead of thinking of technical position changes, try these things first and see how you respond with feel

Edited by Cwebb, 07 December 2017 - 01:27 PM.


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#7 Krt22

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:42 PM

Im a serial hooker trying to fix an extreme in to out path for 2 seasons as well. I had two big issues

First was the backswing, I was getting too much depth and too flat. From there most reroute and come over the top, but as a hooker I drop my right shoulder big time and fling it to right field. So a steeper shoulder turn and more vertical wrist hinge does quite a bit to help keep path more neutral

The second is pulling the hands down behind me early in transition (made worse by arms too much behind me), this basically stalls the body and them you have no other path but out to the right. If you close the face its a hook, if you leave it open a huge block. So the fix is more hip/body rotation to start the DS without pulling the hands down, hand path needs to move OUT more towards the ball. This one is tough for those serial hookers who developed the hook for fear of the evil "over the top" move. For me it feels over the top, it feels like a big wipey cut, but the results are typically a crisp straight ball

Edited by Krt22, 07 December 2017 - 02:43 PM.


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#8 jmiller2

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:43 PM

I have a drill that I was given by my swing coach when I got into a bad habit of dropping the club too far inside making my path in-to-out.

Get yourself a driveway marker from a hardware store for $2 (it can serve as an alignment stick also).
~ Stick the point in the the ground at a shallow angle so that the other end sticks upwards and towards the target.
~ Place a ball so that the shaft / heel is near the driveway marker and the ball is about 6" from where the marker enters the ground towards the target.
>> You want the ball in a spot that an in-to-out path the bottom of the club or hosel will glance into the driveway marker before the ball and not hurt yourself.
>>> If you do happen to hit the driveway marker it is made of fiberglass, it will shatter before leaving a dent in your club.


EDIT - Placing an object on the toe side of the golf club would be for someone that has an out-to-in swing path that wants to come in-to-dtl or in-to-in

Edited by jmiller2, 07 December 2017 - 02:44 PM.

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#9 kitss

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:03 PM

Take a video of your swing and check if you are early extending.   I was 10 degree in to out before I fixed that.  



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#10 cwglum

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:09 PM

I had success this year teeing a 2nd ball up about 18-24" behind my ball and slightly inside the correct path.
Forced me to swing on correct path and deliver the club to the back of the ball, instead of my normal 'dump it inside and underneath' path.

Actually played 9 holes this way a few times and it helped tremendously.

Also, spent a few times at the range purposely coming over the top, swinging way left and hitting balls into the left trees at the range.

Edited by cwglum, 07 December 2017 - 03:10 PM.


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#11 Mcgeeno

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:18 PM

Still a work in progress.

The pause drill helped me a ton.

Lining up with the tee marker just outside my ball forces it during a round or you will break your club. I do this as well.

Slow swings in a mirror and recording your swing so you can see incremental changes.

Iíve gone from play a big hook to being more controllable. I still couldnít hit a stock fade if you dropped 100 on the tee box and bet me though.

Longest hardest change Iíve ever made.

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#12 Hackinator

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:36 PM

 Mcgeeno, on 07 December 2017 - 04:18 PM, said:

Still a work in progress.

The pause drill helped me a ton.

Lining up with the tee marker just outside my ball forces it during a round or you will break your club. I do this as well.

Slow swings in a mirror and recording your swing so you can see incremental changes.

I've gone from play a big hook to being more controllable. I still couldn't hit a stock fade if you dropped 100 on the tee box and bet me though.

Longest hardest change I've ever made.

If I played with the tee marker just outside the ball.. I would be TERRIFED !!

In the past I put a headcover opposite the ball, and when my swing is too much in-out, I send that headcover flying.

It's good feedback to confirm I am in-out, but unfortunately still have not found a full-proof method to fix the path.

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#13 RichieHunt

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:51 PM

Usually it's an issue with getting your body to rotate enough into impact.  Either a slide of the pelvis forcing the path to the right or some sort of stalling of the torso.

You may also be pulling the arms straight down from the inside so much.

Hard to tell unless there's a video of your swing.





RH

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#14 Krt22

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:51 PM

Physical barriers like that work for some, but for others they just lead to compensations to avoid collision. Best is to take video and see exactly what is going on and fix the key issue

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#15 sethdavidsdad

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:51 PM

 Krt22, on 07 December 2017 - 02:42 PM, said:

Im a serial hooker trying to fix an extreme in to out path for 2 seasons as well. I had two big issues

First was the backswing, I was getting too much depth and too flat. From there most reroute and come over the top, but as a hooker I drop my right shoulder big time and fling it to right field. So a steeper shoulder turn and more vertical wrist hinge does quite a bit to help keep path more neutral

The second is pulling the hands down behind me early in transition (made worse by arms too much behind me), this basically stalls the body and them you have no other path but out to the right. If you close the face its a hook, if you leave it open a huge block. So the fix is more hip/body rotation to start the DS without pulling the hands down, hand path needs to move OUT more towards the ball. This one is tough for those serial hookers who developed the hook for fear of the evil "over the top" move. For me it feels over the top, it feels like a big wipey cut, but the results are typically a crisp straight ball

This was me several years ago. Shoulders were way too flat hands were way too far around behind. It took a combination of working the hands more up in the backswing and shortening the swing to get me to finally stop hooking.

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#16 Petunia Sprinkle

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 07:12 PM

 Hackinator, on 07 December 2017 - 11:32 AM, said:

 cardoustie, on 07 December 2017 - 10:43 AM, said:

Hackinator

I just fixed this over the last two seasons, have gone from as bad as 15 in to out to 2 and I can also go 2-3 outside in now when I want.  Did some trackman work

Swing wise, my coach had me trying to hit 50 yard cuts

However, what turned the tide were two things

1.  The Malaska move (ie not letting the club lay way down coming into impact)

2.  Rotating my torso (I think right shoulder) hard to the left in my downswing

My days of wild hooks with the driver and thin/fat shots with the irons are gone.   I used to "rock and block" .. and Tom Watson has a great video on youtube when he discovered the SAME THING

You're on the right track

I actually tried the Malaska move but it does not give me the feeling to drive the right shoulder forward and to the left.
If anything, my right shoulder stays back with the Malaska Move.
In the videos with MM, he never seems to talk about the driving the right shoulder forward.

But I could be misinterpreting the MM move.

Malaska views moving the right shoulder, as you describe, as the key move to coming over the top. Are you trying to come over the top?

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#17 northgolf

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 08:01 PM

DJ Watts can fix your inside out path but quick, though it as not a total antiseptic due to the flushing.
If I do this 11,548 more times, I will be having fun.  - Zippy the Pinhead

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#18 deathbymuffin

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 08:39 PM

 cardoustie, on 07 December 2017 - 10:43 AM, said:

Hackinator

I just fixed this over the last two seasons, have gone from as bad as 15 in to out to 2 and I can also go 2-3 outside in now when I want.  Did some trackman work

Swing wise, my coach had me trying to hit 50 yard cuts

However, what turned the tide were two things

1.  The Malaska move (ie not letting the club lay way down coming into impact)

2.  Rotating my torso (I think right shoulder) hard to the left in my downswing

My days of wild hooks with the driver and thin/fat shots with the irons are gone.   I used to "rock and block" .. and Tom Watson has a great video on youtube when he discovered the SAME THING

You're on the right track

This was the exact same thing I did over the past year.  The Malaska move was the key for me in straightening out path.  Feels kind of like a little pause in transition where the clubhead tips and catches up with the rest of the body and then I can just turn the right shoulder and pour on the speed from there.  Hit a nice little power fade now instead of my nasty overdraw/hook.

Another way of thinking about it is that you can't release the clubhead too soon.  As soon as you begin transition, start releasing the clubhead (via left arm rotation).

Edited by deathbymuffin, 07 December 2017 - 08:41 PM.


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#19 Hackinator

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 08:45 PM

 deathbymuffin, on 07 December 2017 - 08:39 PM, said:

 cardoustie, on 07 December 2017 - 10:43 AM, said:

Hackinator

I just fixed this over the last two seasons, have gone from as bad as 15 in to out to 2 and I can also go 2-3 outside in now when I want.  Did some trackman work

Swing wise, my coach had me trying to hit 50 yard cuts

However, what turned the tide were two things

1.  The Malaska move (ie not letting the club lay way down coming into impact)

2.  Rotating my torso (I think right shoulder) hard to the left in my downswing

My days of wild hooks with the driver and thin/fat shots with the irons are gone.   I used to "rock and block" .. and Tom Watson has a great video on youtube when he discovered the SAME THING

You're on the right track

This was the exact same thing I did over the past year.  The Malaska move was the key for me in straightening out path.  Feels kind of like a little pause in transition where the clubhead tips and catches up with the rest of the body and then I can just turn the right shoulder and pour on the speed from there.  Hit a nice little power fade now instead of my nasty overdraw/hook.

Interesting..

I think my right shoulder "drops down" a bit too much on the downswing and I feel I have too much secondary tilt because of this.
I also feel the right shoulder is "staying back" thru impact.

So, perhaps getting that right shoulder moving forward is something I can try

I have watched the MM videos, and I don't believe Mike has ever said anything about driving the right shoulder forward.

Edited by Hackinator, 07 December 2017 - 09:25 PM.


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#20 NotForeLong

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 10:36 PM

IMO seems like a ton of random guessing here.  OP, whatís your path number?  Itís basically impossible to tell what your path actually is without having it measured. It may be that path isnít even an issue and attempts to correct it will just make things worse.


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#21 scotee

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 11:24 PM

 Hackinator, on 07 December 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

Guys, I struggle with this inside-out, my error is a hook.

I think I finally figured out you have to fix the PATH first before messing w/ clubface.
When I've tried tweaking clubface w/o fixing path it seemed to cause more problems.

So I am focusing only on PATH and not CLUBFACE at the moment.

I read that the Right shoulder moving outward is a good idea if you have in-out path.
The article was saying if you are in-out your right shoulder is traveling down too much and needs to go outward more.

Any thoughts?

Martin Chuck helped me with this a few years ago. This towel drill gave me an intention without lots of swing thoughts and got me more in to in instead of the stuck in to out that was my habit. I would hit the inside of the towel before the ball with my inside out path. The correction for me felt over the top out to in but was just on plane.


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#22 The Mad Bomber

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 12:01 AM

 RichieHunt, on 07 December 2017 - 04:51 PM, said:

Usually it's an issue with getting your body to rotate enough into impact.  Either a slide of the pelvis forcing the path to the right or some sort of stalling of the torso.

You may also be pulling the arms straight down from the inside so much.

Hard to tell unless there's a video of your swing.





RH

So many times, this is the case. If you have an excessive lateral move towards the target, the club will drop dramatically to the inside.

If you're still looking for a drill to try, swing to the top and on the downswing focus on posting up or straightening the left leg. It will get you hips moving up, not at the target and it's very difficult to drop the club inside when you do that drill.
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#23 oikos1

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 12:08 AM

Still on the first page and you've got at least 3 & 1/2 years of drills to work with.  Sweet!

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#24 uitar9

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 08:25 AM

Been reading the two hogan books since the courses closed and now just hitting at the indoor range. Concentrating on the takeaway- hands, arms, shoulders, hips starting at the same time and the downswing-concentrating on starting with the hips. It feels like the hands, arms just drop naturally, driving back to the ball. Recognizing its indoors but initial ball flight appears reasonably straight-a slight fade in my case.



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 uitar9, on 08 December 2017 - 08:24 AM, said:

Been reading the two hogan books since the courses closed and now just hitting at the indoor range. Concentrating on the takeaway- hands, arms, shoulders, hips starting at the same time and the downswing-concentrating on starting with the hips. It feels like the hands, arms just drop naturally, driving back to the ball. Recognizing its indoors but initial ball flight appears reasonably straight-a slight fade in my case.



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#25 gvogel

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 09:54 AM

 Hackinator, on 07 December 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

 deathbymuffin, on 07 December 2017 - 08:39 PM, said:

 cardoustie, on 07 December 2017 - 10:43 AM, said:

Hackinator

I just fixed this over the last two seasons, have gone from as bad as 15 in to out to 2 and I can also go 2-3 outside in now when I want.  Did some trackman work

Swing wise, my coach had me trying to hit 50 yard cuts

However, what turned the tide were two things

1.  The Malaska move (ie not letting the club lay way down coming into impact)

2.  Rotating my torso (I think right shoulder) hard to the left in my downswing

My days of wild hooks with the driver and thin/fat shots with the irons are gone.   I used to "rock and block" .. and Tom Watson has a great video on youtube when he discovered the SAME THING

You're on the right track

This was the exact same thing I did over the past year.  The Malaska move was the key for me in straightening out path.  Feels kind of like a little pause in transition where the clubhead tips and catches up with the rest of the body and then I can just turn the right shoulder and pour on the speed from there.  Hit a nice little power fade now instead of my nasty overdraw/hook.

Interesting..

I think my right shoulder "drops down" a bit too much on the downswing and I feel I have too much secondary tilt because of this.
I also feel the right shoulder is "staying back" thru impact.

So, perhaps getting that right shoulder moving forward is something I can try

I have watched the MM videos, and I don't believe Mike has ever said anything about driving the right shoulder forward.

Of all people, Dustin Johnson also had this problem some time ago.  His "cure" was to feel that his right side was high through impact.

I guess that worked for him, and now he plays a fade.

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#26 getitdaily

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 10:17 AM

Either get on the range and hit 1000 cut shots or move ball position way forward and hit a ton of shots.

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#27 Cpm881

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 12:07 PM

Agree with everyone saying to line up left of target or at target and never to the right of it. The more you aim right to compensate for a draw/hook the more you will prob hook it. Like a vicious circle. Take this with grain of salt as your reasons for hooking may be different than mine but I worked with my instructor on getting rid of lefts and it was: 1. Always square alignment (never aim right to play for the draw) 2. keep body rotating 3. Getting club to exit left as much as possible, not chasing down the line.

After that, worked on releasing the club head as years of draws/hooks had me holding off to prevent the hook. It's still scary to release the club head fully after years of hooking
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#28 Hackinator

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 12:10 PM

 NotForeLong, on 07 December 2017 - 10:36 PM, said:

IMO seems like a ton of random guessing here.  OP, what's your path number?  It's basically impossible to tell what your path actually is without having it measured. It may be that path isn't even an issue and attempts to correct it will just make things worse.

I agree about getting my path measured.  I have taken a few lessons recently but the instructor does not use trackman or video at all.

Do you think it be worthwhile to find another instructor that uses trackman?

So far he's modified my grip (neutral grip) and made sure my body alignment is perfect.  He thinks my posture already looks good.

He  feels like the swing path should fall into place with good grip, stance and alignment.
Do you think it really can be this easy?

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#29 Krt22

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 04:23 PM

You can have a great setup and still hit a mean hook. Im not sure I'd use an instructor that doesnt use video OR a LM. Feel isnt real so its tough to make changes without some sort of media to have record of the changes. Also impossible to self diagnose down the road if you fall back into your old habbits

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#30 mws92

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 04:33 PM

 Hackinator, on 08 December 2017 - 12:10 PM, said:

 NotForeLong, on 07 December 2017 - 10:36 PM, said:

IMO seems like a ton of random guessing here.  OP, what's your path number?  It's basically impossible to tell what your path actually is without having it measured. It may be that path isn't even an issue and attempts to correct it will just make things worse.

I agree about getting my path measured.  I have taken a few lessons recently but the instructor does not use trackman or video at all.

Do you think it be worthwhile to find another instructor that uses trackman?

So far he's modified my grip (neutral grip) and made sure my body alignment is perfect.  He thinks my posture already looks good.

He  feels like the swing path should fall into place with good grip, stance and alignment.
Do you think it really can be this easy?

It definitely helps but is not the complete fix.  If your hands don't have the correct depth in the backswing but your intention is to hit a draw, your body is going to do what it can to get the hands deeper on the transition and voila super dumped under way in-to-out path.

The headcover / water bottle, tee marker outside and ahead of the ball should work - but the key is you need to swing at about 40-50% speed to allow your mind to handle the new movement pattern.  Otherwise at full speed it's going to go into compensation emergency mode which will turn into raising the handle, dragging it forward, early extension, etc.

I would try a modification to the headcover drill because you can get the head to move more down the target line without fixing the underlying problem which is handpath.  Use an alignment stick just outside and ahead of the ball at the same angle as the lie angle of the club you are using.  This will force you to swing in a way that gets the hands moving more left through impact with your chest covering the ball better / less secondary tilt.  Again do this at a very slow speed and tee up the ball at first to start to let your body understand the motion.


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