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What club most dictates your score?


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#271 dnalepoca

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:43 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 07 December 2017 - 08:26 AM, said:

love to see those of us who said driver edit and add swing speed or average drive distance (i know i know ... implosion incoming) ,... my bet is that the ones who hinge on driver or tee game are the ones who hit it longest.... our big misses tend to be automatic double bogey....   its a part of my learning process im working on.... when to be aggresive when to layup....  i blew up a even par round on a long course in the rain and cold yesterday with a layup iron off the tee on 17..... OB right side for approx 220 yards and i pushed a 3 iron OB by 4 feet.... funny thing is if i hit driver or 3 wood i take OB completely out of play and at worst have tree trouble and make bogey..yet i just wanted to lay back and make par to save score...... this game is so much about proper decisions....  even more so than shot execution once you get to a certain consistant level...
I’m by no means a long hitter. I’m not sure my actual distance because I’ve never been on a launch monitor but I would bet my good drives are in the 220-250 range. But the reason I picked driver is because when I’m in the fairway the game is easier. When the driver is off my miss is a slice and boy does that thing go right. Way right, like 2 holes over right, and it’s hard to score from there

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#272 Rosco1216

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:51 PM

View PostNorth Butte, on 07 December 2017 - 02:26 PM, said:

You said that putting was most important to scoring because it represents "... 30-45% of total strokes in a given round..." which is a total non-sequitur. The percentage of strokes in a round has nothing to do with scoring well or badly, mentioning it as justification for the highly unlikely assertion that putting is more important than other parts of the game is nonsensical.
Non-sequitur and nonsensical. Such big words, however you’re mistaken.  I said putting most dictates score on a given round. Score is strokes, putting accounts for most strokes, therefore the club that accounts for the most strokes simply most DIRECTLY dictates your score.  I never said putting was most “important” nor that the percentage has to do with scoring good or bad.

Edited by Rosco1216, 07 December 2017 - 02:53 PM.

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#273 North Butte

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:53 PM

In other words, you gave a totally content-free answer. Well thanks, then.

My own contribution is this. The square root of pi is 1.7725...

Why was Tiger Woods so dominant in majors at his peak? Why it's because 31% of his total strokes were putts.

So why then was Y.E. Yang able to beat him in the '09 PGA? Well, it's because 31% of his total strokes were putts.

And I guess Tiger's problems now really boil down to 31% of his total strokes being putts, eh? Either that or the square root of pi being 1.775, it's hard to say which.

Edited by North Butte, 07 December 2017 - 02:56 PM.

A chicken is just an egg's way of making more eggs.

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#274 SwooshLT

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:07 PM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 06 December 2017 - 10:58 PM, said:

View Postdeadsolid...shank, on 06 December 2017 - 09:18 PM, said:

View PostRosco1216, on 06 December 2017 - 08:52 PM, said:

Putter most dictates my score. Driver most dictates how I’m playing.

I like that.  makes sense to me.

I actually think its a great answer to the question "assuming all your clubs perform at an average level for your ability, which club's performance will result in really low or really high rounds?", which is how most people are answering it (which wasn't the OP's question).

But don't tell me your putter matters the most if you're spraying your irons all over the course.  The best way to improve is to raise your average level, not try to make freak hot streaks with driver or putter happen more often.


I'm no pro but was once scratch and pinestreet tried giving you guys the SIMPLEST way to lower your score.....

HIT. MORE. GREENS.

I played same course with different irons (GOLWRX STYLE) A week apart....82 with 5 girs....73 with 13 girs including a bad drive double bogey....even if your shot game is stellar , relying it to keep your score low is hard pressed....sure I drive it in play most of the time and that's been honed in over time but solid even unspectacular iron play just makes it easier....my goal is and has been 12 plus greens per round...I don't play 7000 yd courses as my lack of distance doesn't allow for it.

I still have to hit the shots and clearly think my way around a course. Striking an iron consistently from tight Bermuda grass isn't as easy as it once was.....so my pursuit to find irons that allow consistency but nice feedback and looks has been a dilemma......especially for a lefty!!!

Merry Christmas guys and strike those irons!!

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#275 Mych

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:12 PM

My scores improve greatly when I have the correct angle to the pin.That usually means that I'm not only "safe" off the tee, but controlling it well enough to be strategic off the tee. My short game isn't good enough to chase protected flags, so my tee shot needs to set up angles that make the flag more accessible. I'm a pretty decent scrambler, but I'm scrambling to save pars and bogeys. With correct position, I'm making comfortable pars with reasonable birdie chances.

Edited by Mych, 07 December 2017 - 04:13 PM.

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#276 Mcgeeno

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:57 PM

I actually agree with Pinestreet I think.

The more greens I hit the lower my score. Less tricky chips, more rolls at bird and lower overall stress on your game.

I’ve posted before about my stat tracking but my GIR went up 6 percent this year. I played 103 rounds tracked all shots. My putting stayed within one stroke (30.6 vs 31.2 last year). Handicap dropped from 5.X to 2.2

When I hit more greens I had some longer birdie putts instead of short pitches and chips so the putting stats cancel out. But I had fewer chips pitches and poor approaches. I two putted more because I hit more greens. I didn’t have as many up and downs because I didn’t have to chip as often.

Next year proximity to the hole will be my main focus. I hit tons of greens but I didn’t have a lot of easy looks.

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#277 Rosco1216

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:16 PM

Of course the best way to lower scores consistently is to hit more greens consistently. No argument there.

Edited by Rosco1216, 07 December 2017 - 05:19 PM.

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#278 KARL M

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:28 PM

Minority vote for fairway wood tee shots.  I can play driver on par 4 & 5 holes that are relatively straight with decent results.

Back 9 has a par 5 dogleg right, 15 yard wide fairway, with a little right to left slope. 10 yard wide right rough has a severe slope to the left. OB right of the right rough.  Left rough slopes left into the woods. A driver that has a slight fade has an outside chance of staying in the fairway if you can hit a 5 yard wide spot on the right edge of the fairway.  Driver hit to the right rough will bounce left into the left rough. Driver pushed right is OB.  Driver hit straight or left will be in left rough or more likely trees.
Fairway wood hit into right rough usually bounces down into the fairway.  Fairway wood hit straight will usually end up on left side of fairway or left rough  

Next hole is a 90* dog leg left with water hazard right, water hazard long, and Inside of dog leg is woods. Driver goes to far and ends up in the hazard.

Next hole is a 90* dog leg left OB right, OB long, A pond on the inside of the corner and woods left of the pond.  Driver goes to far OB.

These three holes are usually the difference between a good and poor score. Good tee shots must have the correct distance and direction to avoid a double bogey or worse.  Wind and how hard the ground (rollout) must be accounted for
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#279 Petethreeput

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:42 PM

View Posthybrid25, on 07 December 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

View PostPetethreeput, on 07 December 2017 - 10:57 AM, said:

Depends.

If it is an unreasonably high score, it's usually driver issues.

If it is an unusually low round it's my putter.
How can a golfer have an 'unusually low' round without getting off the tee successfully, eliminating penalty strokes, with distance? Sure, you can sink a 30 ft putt, or stick it close for a tap in, but is this after it takes you 4-5 shots to get to the green due to bad drives?

I am not a great driver of the ball, but I might lose a ball once a month.  I might be in the trees 3 times a round on an average round.  If I start firing low 80s it is fairly consistent that I had hit driver into the trees a LOT and had to punch out sideways or manufacture a go at the green.  My GIR drops to 7-8 per round.  My putts drop too because I am probably getting closer to the pin because I am chipping onto the green, but it takes me extra shots to get there.

If I am driving averagely, I am going to hit between 9-13 greens a round.  My irons are my saving grace.  But the proximity from the hole is going to be worse because I am coming in from 120-170 yards rather than the scrambling from the trees noted above.  So, if I am playing average golf and putting lights out I will shoot really low scores because I might make 5-6 10'ers.

My scoring average is 77 over the season.  My low score this year was a 71, my high score was 83.  So, I am not a great ball striker, but my mediocre striking is pretty consistent.

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#280 dgp17

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:42 PM

For me it's the driver--It's not even close.  So long as I'm not three putting often or missing every three footer I stand over then putting doesn't control my score.  I fight the lefts, and on a bad day, I can hit two out of bounds and miss half of my fairways.  If I'm hitting it hard and straight, then I have wedges into most par 4s--hard to bogey from there, even if I'm putting bad.  My GHIN is a 0.5.  If I have my best driving day on the same day that I have my worst putting day, I'm shooting 76.  If I have my worst driving day on my best putting day, I'm shooting 82.  Making long putts to save double bogey don't help my score too much.

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#281 Arb8889

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:44 PM

Driver and it aint even close, golf is a relatively simple game from the middle of the fairway
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#282 SwooshLT

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:51 PM

View PostArb8889, on 07 December 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:

Driver and it aint even close, golf is a relatively simple game from the middle of the fairway


Have to disagree......how many greens are you hitting on solid driver days?

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#283 North Butte

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:54 PM

View PostSwooshLT, on 07 December 2017 - 05:51 PM, said:

View PostArb8889, on 07 December 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:

Driver and it aint even close, golf is a relatively simple game from the middle of the fairway


Have to disagree......how many greens are you hitting on solid driver days?

A lot more than when he’s in the woods on every other hole. He did say, “relatively simple”.
A chicken is just an egg's way of making more eggs.

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#284 HitEmTrue

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:56 PM

View PostRosco1216, on 07 December 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

I said putting most dictates score on a given round. Score is strokes, putting accounts for most strokes, therefore the club that accounts for the most strokes simply most DIRECTLY dictates your score.

Most of the made putts in a round are tap-ins, and they should be ignored in your calculation.

Where's larrybud?

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#285 North Butte

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:57 PM

View Postdgp17, on 07 December 2017 - 05:42 PM, said:

For me it's the driver--It's not even close.  So long as I'm not three putting often or missing every three footer I stand over then putting doesn't control my score.  I fight the lefts, and on a bad day, I can hit two out of bounds and miss half of my fairways.  If I'm hitting it hard and straight, then I have wedges into most par 4s--hard to bogey from there, even if I'm putting bad.  My GHIN is a 0.5.  If I have my best driving day on the same day that I have my worst putting day, I'm shooting 76.  If I have my worst driving day on my best putting day, I'm shooting 82.  Making long putts to save double bogey don't help my score too much.

I call those my “8 feet for bogey” days. Tee shot in trouble, punch it out to the 200 marker. Hit it up somewhere short of the green, chip on and leave a perfectly reasonable putt...for bogey instead of birdie.

A chicken is just an egg's way of making more eggs.

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#286 ChronicSlicer

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 06:03 PM

I firmly believe the driver is the best chance at scoring low in theory. We all know the fairway is better than the rough. Even if you miss every green from the fairway it`s likely your gonna be in a better spot than missing the green from the rough. Which in turn should lead to an easier chip on. Which hopefully get`s close enough for a one putt. Even if you flub that chip and two or three putt, that initial drive gave you the best chance at a good score.

That`s just my theory.

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#287 hybrid25

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 06:09 PM

View PostPetethreeput, on 07 December 2017 - 05:42 PM, said:

View Posthybrid25, on 07 December 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

View PostPetethreeput, on 07 December 2017 - 10:57 AM, said:

Depends.

If it is an unreasonably high score, it's usually driver issues.

If it is an unusually low round it's my putter.
How can a golfer have an 'unusually low' round without getting off the tee successfully, eliminating penalty strokes, with distance? Sure, you can sink a 30 ft putt, or stick it close for a tap in, but is this after it takes you 4-5 shots to get to the green due to bad drives?

I am not a great driver of the ball, but I might lose a ball once a month.  I might be in the trees 3 times a round on an average round.  If I start firing low 80s it is fairly consistent that I had hit driver into the trees a LOT and had to punch out sideways or manufacture a go at the green.  My GIR drops to 7-8 per round.  My putts drop too because I am probably getting closer to the pin because I am chipping onto the green, but it takes me extra shots to get there.

If I am driving averagely, I am going to hit between 9-13 greens a round.  My irons are my saving grace.  But the proximity from the hole is going to be worse because I am coming in from 120-170 yards rather than the scrambling from the trees noted above.  So, if I am playing average golf and putting lights out I will shoot really low scores because I might make 5-6 10'ers.

My scoring average is 77 over the season.  My low score this year was a 71, my high score was 83.  So, I am not a great ball striker, but my mediocre striking is pretty consistent.
sounds like you're pretty consistent to me, and a pretty good golfer.

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#288 ChronicSlicer

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 06:11 PM

Just picture topping every drive 100 yards, a 300 yard approach shot to every par 4 would really suck. Do that for 18 holes and ask yourself what club was the most dictated your score.

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#289 SwooshLT

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 06:12 PM

View PostNorth Butte, on 07 December 2017 - 05:54 PM, said:

View PostSwooshLT, on 07 December 2017 - 05:51 PM, said:

View PostArb8889, on 07 December 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:

Driver and it aint even close, golf is a relatively simple game from the middle of the fairway


Have to disagree......how many greens are you hitting on solid driver days?

A lot more than when he’s in the woods on every other hole. He did say, “relatively simple”.


Still disagree....hitting greens for amateurs is a distinct disadvantage.....as bad as driving is chunked or bladed irons is more prevalent on courses .....and for those that can't keep driver in play, step down until you find a club that does!

Edited by SwooshLT, 07 December 2017 - 06:12 PM.


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#290 SwooshLT

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 06:16 PM

View PostChronicSlicer, on 07 December 2017 - 06:11 PM, said:

Just picture topping every drive 100 yards, a 300 yard approach shot to every par 4 would really suck. Do that for 18 holes and ask yourself what club was the most dictated your score.


Stop hitting driver and move up to your appropriate tee marker


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#291 Rosco1216

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 06:20 PM

View PostHitEmTrue, on 07 December 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

View PostRosco1216, on 07 December 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

I said putting most dictates score on a given round. Score is strokes, putting accounts for most strokes, therefore the club that accounts for the most strokes simply most DIRECTLY dictates your score.

Most of the made putts in a round are tap-ins, and they should be ignored in your calculation.

Where's larrybud?
Most putts made during a round are tap-ins? What number would you consider as “most”?  They are strokes regardless so why wouldn’t they count in my calculation? The putter accounts for the most strokes of any other club. That was all my “calculation” was referencing.
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#292 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 06:38 PM

View PostMrJones, on 07 December 2017 - 08:16 AM, said:

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 06 December 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

Realizing that mechanical / technical perfection doesn't guarantee you anything in this game, and just getting into a cruising mindset where i'm just hitting greens.  Open look, hit green.  Open look, hit green.  On the back 9 of the 46-33 round I hit 8.  It doesn't have to be in the fairway, but open look hit the green.  Open look hit the green. Open look hit the green.  Open look hit the green.  When I try to do more than that (i.e. knock down pins that are tough, worry about hitting it too far on a short pin, etc...) I get in trouble.  Open look hit the green.  I have a tendency to think if I can just make perfect swings I'll make a perfect score, which is nonsense, but doesn't stop me thinking it!  Tee shot creates an open look at the green, iron hits it.  Open look, hit green.  Open look, hit green.  Cruise.

When I'm at my best I'm planning my second shot while standing on the tee box.  When I'm at my worst I'm thinking technical thoughts about my driver swing while standing on the tee box.
Hahaha we have very similar games. Even the long blast out of the bunker and occasional skulls.

I feel like I can hit every green if I can see it with no obstacles in my path. But my course is one where a drive too far left or right will leave you in the trees or with a tree fully/partially blocking the hole.

This is why when I read the topic title asking (the way I read it), "what club most dictates your score", I answered Driver. How I hit it and where my tee shots end up will most dictate how I score on any given round. My best round ever I happen to hit 12 of 14 fairways.

I look at it like we reach skill levels with different parts of our game. Right now my irons and putting are strong. Driver is ok. Wedge game is sketchy. I honestly don't believe me improving my iron play from where I'm at would lower my scores.

How often do you practice your irons from anything other than a perfect range lie? Ever hit a bucket every single one out of a divot? Or pretend your behind a tree and have to curve it 30 feet? Or hit a range bucket out of sand or pull up the grass and hit off bare dirt for an hour?

If all you do is practice hitting irons off range mats and grass the fairway is vital - you can't hit from anywhere else, you haven't practiced it.

"Improving irons" includes being able to hit shots when your driver is bad. The pros are incredible at this. Most amateurs never practice anywhere but perfect lies and then act stunned when they can't hit out of bad lies. A bad a** iron player doesn't need a good driver. Most people assume a good iron shot is impossible without a good lie and that isn't true.

Just throwing it out there. I got a LOT better when I started practicing out of crap on the range. If you practice only from fairway lies it's no wonder you have to hit it to score.

Edited by pinestreetgolf, 07 December 2017 - 06:43 PM.

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#293 HitEmTrue

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 06:39 PM

View PostRosco1216, on 07 December 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

View PostHitEmTrue, on 07 December 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

View PostRosco1216, on 07 December 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

I said putting most dictates score on a given round. Score is strokes, putting accounts for most strokes, therefore the club that accounts for the most strokes simply most DIRECTLY dictates your score.

Most of the made putts in a round are tap-ins, and they should be ignored in your calculation.

Where's larrybud?
Most putts made during a round are tap-ins? What number would you consider as "most"?  They are strokes regardless so why wouldn't they count in my calculation? The putter accounts for the most strokes of any other club. That was all my "calculation" was referencing.

More than half?

Let's say someone averages making 10 legitimate tap-ins per round.  When analyzing the shots taken with each club to decide what clubs to work on, the tap-in's that were made should be ignored.  You are going to make them anyway.

When someone two-putts from a long distance, he hasn't lost a stroke.  When someone makes a tap-in, he hasn't gained a stroke.

< edit >
I'm NOT suggesting to ignore practicing short putts.

Edited by HitEmTrue, 07 December 2017 - 06:43 PM.


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#294 hybrid25

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 06:42 PM

View PostRosco1216, on 07 December 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

View PostHitEmTrue, on 07 December 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

View PostRosco1216, on 07 December 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

I said putting most dictates score on a given round. Score is strokes, putting accounts for most strokes, therefore the club that accounts for the most strokes simply most DIRECTLY dictates your score.

Most of the made putts in a round are tap-ins, and they should be ignored in your calculation.

Where's larrybud?
Most putts made during a round are tap-ins? What number would you consider as “most”?  They are strokes regardless so why wouldn’t they count in my calculation? The putter accounts for the most strokes of any other club. That was all my “calculation” was referencing.
Drive goes ob, 3 off tee lands in play, 4th lands greenside rough, 5 chips to 10 ft, 2 putts for trple 7. Which club cost you most strokes? Driver, hands down.

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#295 DrRob1963

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 06:46 PM

Putting.
How well I putt, particularly in the 4'-10' range, would be the single biggest determinant of my final score on any given day.
And when I am holing them, it gives so much more confidence to the rest of my game!

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#296 Rosco1216

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 06:47 PM

View Posthybrid25, on 07 December 2017 - 06:42 PM, said:

View PostRosco1216, on 07 December 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

View PostHitEmTrue, on 07 December 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

View PostRosco1216, on 07 December 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

I said putting most dictates score on a given round. Score is strokes, putting accounts for most strokes, therefore the club that accounts for the most strokes simply most DIRECTLY dictates your score.

Most of the made putts in a round are tap-ins, and they should be ignored in your calculation.

Where's larrybud?
Most putts made during a round are tap-ins? What number would you consider as “most”?  They are strokes regardless so why wouldn’t they count in my calculation? The putter accounts for the most strokes of any other club. That was all my “calculation” was referencing.
Drive goes ob, 3 off tee lands in play, 4th lands greenside rough, 5 chips to 10 ft, 2 putts for trple 7. Which club cost you most strokes? Driver, hands down.
I wasn’t under the impression the question was what club can potentially cost you the most when you hit a terrible shot?
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#297 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 06:55 PM

View PostRosco1216, on 07 December 2017 - 06:47 PM, said:

View Posthybrid25, on 07 December 2017 - 06:42 PM, said:

View PostRosco1216, on 07 December 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

View PostHitEmTrue, on 07 December 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

View PostRosco1216, on 07 December 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

I said putting most dictates score on a given round. Score is strokes, putting accounts for most strokes, therefore the club that accounts for the most strokes simply most DIRECTLY dictates your score.

Most of the made putts in a round are tap-ins, and they should be ignored in your calculation.

Where's larrybud?
Most putts made during a round are tap-ins? What number would you consider as "most"?  They are strokes regardless so why wouldn't they count in my calculation? The putter accounts for the most strokes of any other club. That was all my "calculation" was referencing.
Drive goes ob, 3 off tee lands in play, 4th lands greenside rough, 5 chips to 10 ft, 2 putts for trple 7. Which club cost you most strokes? Driver, hands down.
I wasn't under the impression the question was what club can potentially cost you the most when you hit a terrible shot?

I'm assuming most people answering putter in this thread do this a lot.

https://www.youtube....h?v=YefULut6YrA

https://www.youtube....h?v=YziMGJuarNQ

Edited by pinestreetgolf, 07 December 2017 - 06:57 PM.

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#298 Rosco1216

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 06:57 PM

View PostDrRob1963, on 07 December 2017 - 06:46 PM, said:

Putting.
How well I putt, particularly in the 4'-10' range, would be the single biggest determinant of my final score on any given day.
And when I am holing them, it gives so much more confidence to the rest of my game!
This is what I was going to get to before things got off track. 4’-12’ are crucial on scoring well on most rounds regardless of you’re hitting the ball or playing.  If you’re hitting the ball great and hitting multiple approach shots in this range or you’re trying to save par from this range if your not hitting greens.

If you’re putting bad in this range youre never going to get the best score out of your round. On the other hand, if you’re good/great from this range, whether trying to save par or make birdies, you’re going to get the best score out of your round.


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#299 Rosco1216

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 07:05 PM

I’m assuming the guys saying it’s not the putter do this most days.
https://youtu.be/StBVTU0EC2w
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#300 ChronicSlicer

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 07:06 PM

View PostSwooshLT, on 07 December 2017 - 06:16 PM, said:

View PostChronicSlicer, on 07 December 2017 - 06:11 PM, said:

Just picture topping every drive 100 yards, a 300 yard approach shot to every par 4 would really suck. Do that for 18 holes and ask yourself what club was the most dictated your score.


Stop hitting driver and move up to your appropriate tee marker

lol, ok dude. It`s hypothetical situation. It`s an example of how IMO the driver can dictate a round a golf. It has nothing to do with playing from a different tee box.


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