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Played w. an 11-yr Old Ringer


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#31 heavy_hitter

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 09:44 AM

View PostBeerPerHole, on 04 December 2017 - 08:32 PM, said:

I don't understand the angst here on this. Perhaps my use of the word "ringer" triggers some. I've been playing 20 years and I've never seen a player in my group play as well as this 4'10", 90 pound kid did. Ever. I could only outdrive this kid - haha! I have played with a few really good amateurs. I know a lot of people might think that kind of golf is routine. If so, I must be playing in some odd dimension. He was playing the youth tees. I don't know the yardage. His work down the fairways was long and straight as an arrow - really straight. It was something to behold.

My kid was really humbled, shocked even. But, it had my boy saying, "I want to hit it like him." So, we were inspired.

I apologize if I came off wrong.

I think most of us posting in the Junior Section are parents of Junior Tournament golfers.  Whether they are good or bad golfers, the majority are here to chat about Jr. Tournament golf.  I think this section is different than the rest of WRX.  The way I take it, and I could be wrong, the majority of the other sections in WRX are weekend golfers that have no concept how good tournament or Jr. tournament golfers really are.  Us parents living in the Jr. Tournament world are used to seeing those types of scores on a daily basis.  I know that most of the people at our own club don't understand how good my son is.  I associate those types of people as the type posting in other sections here.

The kid shot -4 and it is impressive.  I don't think it is something to get giddy over and call the kid a ringer in the sense of what you are mentioning.  It is an outstanding score.


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#32 kekoa

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 11:55 AM

View PostBeerPerHole, on 04 December 2017 - 08:32 PM, said:

I don't understand the angst here on this. Perhaps my use of the word "ringer" triggers some. I've been playing 20 years and I've never seen a player in my group play as well as this 4'10", 90 pound kid did. Ever. I could only outdrive this kid - haha! I have played with a few really good amateurs. I know a lot of people might think that kind of golf is routine. If so, I must be playing in some odd dimension. He was playing the youth tees. I don't know the yardage. His work down the fairways was long and straight as an arrow - really straight. It was something to behold.

My kid was really humbled, shocked even. But, it had my boy saying, "I want to hit it like him." So, we were inspired.

Don't let it get to you.

I've been called a 'ringer' several times at my work scramble tournaments.  I, like you just thought it meant being a good golfer.  Now that I know what 'ringer' really means I'm going to raise all hell next time someone calls me that.  :superman:

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#33 heavy_hitter

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 12:01 PM

View Postkekoa, on 05 December 2017 - 11:55 AM, said:

View PostBeerPerHole, on 04 December 2017 - 08:32 PM, said:

I don't understand the angst here on this. Perhaps my use of the word "ringer" triggers some. I've been playing 20 years and I've never seen a player in my group play as well as this 4'10", 90 pound kid did. Ever. I could only outdrive this kid - haha! I have played with a few really good amateurs. I know a lot of people might think that kind of golf is routine. If so, I must be playing in some odd dimension. He was playing the youth tees. I don't know the yardage. His work down the fairways was long and straight as an arrow - really straight. It was something to behold.

My kid was really humbled, shocked even. But, it had my boy saying, "I want to hit it like him." So, we were inspired.

Don't let it get to you.

I've been called a 'ringer' several times at my work scramble tournaments.  I, like you just thought it meant being a good golfer.  Now that I know what 'ringer' really means I'm going to raise all hell next time someone calls me that.  :superman:

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#34 CTgolf

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 12:03 PM

View Postiteachgolf, on 05 December 2017 - 04:38 AM, said:

View PostCTgolf, on 05 December 2017 - 02:11 AM, said:

He sounds like a great player

Question for the group: would a boy shooting even par from the forward (formerly ladies’) tees on most courses (with reasonably high slope) by the age of 11-12yo equate to eventually being a better-than-scratch index golfer from the men’s or even championship tees (a level of play that presumably would be the minimum standard to play D1 or competitive D2 college golf)?

Lots of variables I’m sure but just speaking broadly

It’s not linear like that.  At 11-12 the top players are shooting those scores from around 6,000 yards, the white tees not the red tees.  But because kids mature and grow at different rates how that translates to 7,000 yards at 18 isn’t easy to predict.  I think how well they play from 6,700+ is a better predictor.   The top 12 year I teach would shoot under par almost every round from the forward tee but more importantly he shoots high 70s on average from the length competitive high school seniors play.

Thanks for the response

Is distance considered to be the limiting factor?  What kind of driving distances are considered “very good” for various ages?

Maybe I am the opposite of HH and too optimistic, but the kid described in the OP sounds like someone who is going to be playing college golf at a reasonably high level

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#35 golfer55082

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 12:39 PM

View PostCTgolf, on 05 December 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 05 December 2017 - 04:38 AM, said:

View PostCTgolf, on 05 December 2017 - 02:11 AM, said:

He sounds like a great player

Question for the group: would a boy shooting even par from the forward (formerly ladies’) tees on most courses (with reasonably high slope) by the age of 11-12yo equate to eventually being a better-than-scratch index golfer from the men’s or even championship tees (a level of play that presumably would be the minimum standard to play D1 or competitive D2 college golf)?

Lots of variables I’m sure but just speaking broadly

It’s not linear like that.  At 11-12 the top players are shooting those scores from around 6,000 yards, the white tees not the red tees.  But because kids mature and grow at different rates how that translates to 7,000 yards at 18 isn’t easy to predict.  I think how well they play from 6,700+ is a better predictor.   The top 12 year I teach would shoot under par almost every round from the forward tee but more importantly he shoots high 70s on average from the length competitive high school seniors play.

Thanks for the response

Is distance considered to be the limiting factor?  What kind of driving distances are considered “very good” for various ages?

Maybe I am the opposite of HH and too optimistic, but the kid described in the OP sounds like someone who is going to be playing college golf at a reasonably high level

What kind of driving distances are considered “very good” for various ages?

Good question.  If the goal is to become a 310 yard hitter as an adult, there is a near-linear driving distance (with roll) at each age.  This is a math calculation, and most kids will not develop in linear line considering the variety in when they hit growth spurt etc.  But overall I think it is a fair guidance for each age to be considered as a "good golfer with sufficient distance".  
  
Age Total Driver Distance for good golfer
--------------------------------------
9 year old 190
10 year old 210
11 year old 230
12 year old 250
13 year old 265
14 year old 280
---------------------------

Edited by golfer55082, 05 December 2017 - 12:42 PM.


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#36 Noles

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:29 PM

View Postgolfer55082, on 05 December 2017 - 12:39 PM, said:

View PostCTgolf, on 05 December 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 05 December 2017 - 04:38 AM, said:

View PostCTgolf, on 05 December 2017 - 02:11 AM, said:

He sounds like a great player

Question for the group: would a boy shooting even par from the forward (formerly ladies’) tees on most courses (with reasonably high slope) by the age of 11-12yo equate to eventually being a better-than-scratch index golfer from the men’s or even championship tees (a level of play that presumably would be the minimum standard to play D1 or competitive D2 college golf)?

Lots of variables I’m sure but just speaking broadly

It’s not linear like that.  At 11-12 the top players are shooting those scores from around 6,000 yards, the white tees not the red tees.  But because kids mature and grow at different rates how that translates to 7,000 yards at 18 isn’t easy to predict.  I think how well they play from 6,700+ is a better predictor.   The top 12 year I teach would shoot under par almost every round from the forward tee but more importantly he shoots high 70s on average from the length competitive high school seniors play.

Thanks for the response

Is distance considered to be the limiting factor?  What kind of driving distances are considered “very good” for various ages?

Maybe I am the opposite of HH and too optimistic, but the kid described in the OP sounds like someone who is going to be playing college golf at a reasonably high level

What kind of driving distances are considered “very good” for various ages?

Good question.  If the goal is to become a 310 yard hitter as an adult, there is a near-linear driving distance (with roll) at each age.  This is a math calculation, and most kids will not develop in linear line considering the variety in when they hit growth spurt etc.  But overall I think it is a fair guidance for each age to be considered as a "good golfer with sufficient distance".  
  
Age Total Driver Distance for good golfer
--------------------------------------
9 year old 190
10 year old 210
11 year old 230
12 year old 250
13 year old 265
14 year old 280
---------------------------
So much of it depends on where you are in your growth and development.  My son has a 14 year old friend that hits it 280 but he is the same size as his dad already.  I don't think he is going to grow much more so not sure how much more distance he will get as he gets older.  My son, who is 13 hits it 250 on a really good drive but he is 8 inches shorter than me and is getting to the age that I hit a real growth spurt.  So I would imagine that my son will out drive his friend in a few years...but who knows.  Life isn't always so predictable.

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#37 CTgolf

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:32 PM

View PostNoles, on 05 December 2017 - 01:29 PM, said:

View Postgolfer55082, on 05 December 2017 - 12:39 PM, said:

View PostCTgolf, on 05 December 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 05 December 2017 - 04:38 AM, said:

View PostCTgolf, on 05 December 2017 - 02:11 AM, said:

He sounds like a great player

Question for the group: would a boy shooting even par from the forward (formerly ladies’) tees on most courses (with reasonably high slope) by the age of 11-12yo equate to eventually being a better-than-scratch index golfer from the men’s or even championship tees (a level of play that presumably would be the minimum standard to play D1 or competitive D2 college golf)?

Lots of variables I’m sure but just speaking broadly

It’s not linear like that.  At 11-12 the top players are shooting those scores from around 6,000 yards, the white tees not the red tees.  But because kids mature and grow at different rates how that translates to 7,000 yards at 18 isn’t easy to predict.  I think how well they play from 6,700+ is a better predictor.   The top 12 year I teach would shoot under par almost every round from the forward tee but more importantly he shoots high 70s on average from the length competitive high school seniors play.

Thanks for the response

Is distance considered to be the limiting factor?  What kind of driving distances are considered “very good” for various ages?

Maybe I am the opposite of HH and too optimistic, but the kid described in the OP sounds like someone who is going to be playing college golf at a reasonably high level

What kind of driving distances are considered “very good” for various ages?

Good question.  If the goal is to become a 310 yard hitter as an adult, there is a near-linear driving distance (with roll) at each age.  This is a math calculation, and most kids will not develop in linear line considering the variety in when they hit growth spurt etc.  But overall I think it is a fair guidance for each age to be considered as a "good golfer with sufficient distance".  

Age Total Driver Distance for good golfer
--------------------------------------
9 year old 190
10 year old 210
11 year old 230
12 year old 250
13 year old 265
14 year old 280
---------------------------
So much of it depends on where you are in your growth and development.  My son has a 14 year old friend that hits it 280 but he is the same size as his dad already.  I don't think he is going to grow much more so not sure how much more distance he will get as he gets older.  My son, who is 13 hits it 250 on a really good drive but he is 8 inches shorter than me and is getting to the age that I hit a real growth spurt.  So I would imagine that my son will out drive his friend in a few years...but who knows.  Life isn't always so predictable.

Regardless, 280+ seems like plenty of distance to play at the competitive college level

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#38 heavy_hitter

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:09 PM

As a general thumb
D1 270+
D2 260+

It isn’t a long drive competition.  You have to put the ball in the hole.  

One of the problems with youth sports in this country is parents trying to put kids into college on athletic prowess at an early age.  I don’t understand people trying to equate the success of 11 year olds with moving them on to college.  Just let them have fun and play.  If it happens it happens.

Driving the ball 280 at 14 or shooting -4 at 11 doesn’t hive anyone the chance of playing college golf.  You don’t know their swing, you don’t know their disposition on the course, you don’t know their grades.  

Why can’t kids play youth sports without labeling them as college prospects?

Edited by heavy_hitter, 05 December 2017 - 03:10 PM.


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#39 golfer55082

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 03:02 PM

My observation / suspicion is that if a kid hit puberty at 12-13, his swing speed will not increase much after 14.  If he cannot hit 280+ at 14, the chance for him to become a long hitter is slim.  Sure there are always outliers to any rule, but this is my observation by looking at the growth pattern of a few golfers.

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#40 golfer55082

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 03:26 PM

View PostCTgolf, on 05 December 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 05 December 2017 - 04:38 AM, said:

View PostCTgolf, on 05 December 2017 - 02:11 AM, said:

He sounds like a great player

Question for the group: would a boy shooting even par from the forward (formerly ladies’) tees on most courses (with reasonably high slope) by the age of 11-12yo equate to eventually being a better-than-scratch index golfer from the men’s or even championship tees (a level of play that presumably would be the minimum standard to play D1 or competitive D2 college golf)?

Lots of variables I’m sure but just speaking broadly

It’s not linear like that.  At 11-12 the top players are shooting those scores from around 6,000 yards, the white tees not the red tees.  But because kids mature and grow at different rates how that translates to 7,000 yards at 18 isn’t easy to predict.  I think how well they play from 6,700+ is a better predictor.   The top 12 year I teach would shoot under par almost every round from the forward tee but more importantly he shoots high 70s on average from the length competitive high school seniors play.

Thanks for the response

Is distance considered to be the limiting factor?  What kind of driving distances are considered “very good” for various ages?

Maybe I am the opposite of HH and too optimistic, but the kid described in the OP sounds like someone who is going to be playing college golf at a reasonably high level

To look at this question in a different way, I would use the total yardage of 72 hole course / 25 to calculate what is the required driver distance to play comfortably. If the course is 6000 yards, the driver distance will be 6000/25 = 240, etc.  By playing comfortably, I mean use a short to mid irons for the 2nd shot of most par4s, 2-on to many par5s.


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#41 buckeyefl

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 03:42 PM

View Postgolfer55082, on 05 December 2017 - 03:02 PM, said:

My observation / suspicion is that if a kid hit puberty at 12-13, his swing speed will not increase much after 14.  If he cannot hit 280+ at 14, the chance for him to become a long hitter is slim.  Sure there are always outliers to any rule, but this is my observation by looking at the growth pattern of a few golfers.

Your suspicion would be wrong as it is far from universal. Take what you said and apply it to other sports and then contemplate what you are suggesting.

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#42 Z1ggy16

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 03:45 PM

Can you even be a ringer in golf? You are playing against yourself technically speaking... It's not like this is an 17yo top junior in the country playing an 11yo on a 5000 yard course for money. That's a ringer. A casual practice round with dad is just... Fun.

Edited by Z1ggy16, 05 December 2017 - 03:46 PM.

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#43 heavy_hitter

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 03:52 PM

View PostZ1ggy16, on 05 December 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

Can you even be a ringer in golf? You are playing against yourself technically speaking... It's not like this is an 17yo top junior in the country playing an 11yo on a 5000 yard course for money. That's a ringer. A casual practice round with dad is just... Fun.

This post makes more sense than any other in this thread.

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#44 golfer55082

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 04:13 PM

View Postbuckeyefl, on 05 December 2017 - 03:42 PM, said:

View Postgolfer55082, on 05 December 2017 - 03:02 PM, said:

My observation / suspicion is that if a kid hit puberty at 12-13, his swing speed will not increase much after 14.  If he cannot hit 280+ at 14, the chance for him to become a long hitter is slim.  Sure there are always outliers to any rule, but this is my observation by looking at the growth pattern of a few golfers.

Your suspicion would be wrong as it is far from universal. Take what you said and apply it to other sports and then contemplate what you are suggesting.

I never said it’s a universal rule. Golf is different from many these “other sports” in your mind. The power is from hips turn which calls for flexibility, which deteriorates as one ages.

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#45 CTgolf

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 04:17 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 05 December 2017 - 02:09 PM, said:

As a general thumb
D1 270+
D2 260+

It isn’t a long drive competition.  You have to put the ball in the hole.  

One of the problems with youth sports in this country is parents trying to put kids into college on athletic prowess at an early age.  I don’t understand people trying to equate the success of 11 year olds with moving them on to college.  Just let them have fun and play.  If it happens it happens.

Driving the ball 280 at 14 or shooting -4 at 11 doesn’t hive anyone the chance of playing college golf.  You don’t know their swing, you don’t know their disposition on the course, you don’t know their grades.  

Why can’t kids play youth sports without labeling them as college prospects?

Thanks HH

I would argue simple economics (scarce resources - be it time, money or both - so need to allocate them as best possible) could be one reason people are trying to project forward

If your son had two passions that he enjoyed equally, yet one had the potential to help him in the future (by helping in college admissions, getting a scholarship, or even professional aspirations) and the other was merely a “nice hobby” he enjoyed, perhaps you would be more willing to invest *your* time and money in helping him to pursue the former?


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#46 blink3665

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 04:20 PM

View Postleezer99, on 04 December 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 04 December 2017 - 12:50 PM, said:

View PostKBong, on 04 December 2017 - 12:16 PM, said:

Only on WRX would people think an 11 yr old posting 4 under to be a POSER....lmao.
Whether the kid was playing 5500 to 6200 yds...it's still quite the feat.

I've played golf for 49 years and quite a bit .....and have yet to be paired up with another golf who had sniffed a 68.

So you have played with really bad golfers....  lol

Myself, Leezer, Tiger, and other golf parents are around Junior tournament golf see this everyday.  Maybe this is why we don't see this as a big deal, but in the grand reality of junior golf, it really isn't a big deal.   That is how low you have to go in tournament rounds to win, even at 11.

As a prime example, Kekoa's kid recently played in a US Kids local and came in 3rd place shooting 2 under on 9 holes.  He is around it everyday as well.

And the worst is how easy they make it look... driver down the middle, mid iron or wedge to the green and make a putt.  Meanwhile your average golfer is hitting driver to the right rough, iron to a greenside bunker, wedge out and then two putting.

Wait.  "hitting driver to the right rough, iron to a greenside bunker, wedge out and then two putting." is average?  CRAP.  I suck at golf.  :)
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#47 heavy_hitter

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 04:41 PM

View PostCTgolf, on 05 December 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 05 December 2017 - 02:09 PM, said:

As a general thumb
D1 270+
D2 260+

It isn€™t a long drive competition.  You have to put the ball in the hole.  

One of the problems with youth sports in this country is parents trying to put kids into college on athletic prowess at an early age.  I don€™t understand people trying to equate the success of 11 year olds with moving them on to college.  Just let them have fun and play.  If it happens it happens.

Driving the ball 280 at 14 or shooting -4 at 11 doesn€™t hive anyone the chance of playing college golf.  You don€™t know their swing, you don€™t know their disposition on the course, you don€™t know their grades.  

Why can€™t kids play youth sports without labeling them as college prospects?

Thanks HH

I would argue simple economics (scarce resources - be it time, money or both - so need to allocate them as best possible) could be one reason people are trying to project forward

If your son had two passions that he enjoyed equally, yet one had the potential to help him in the future (by helping in college admissions, getting a scholarship, or even professional aspirations) and the other was merely a “nice hobby” he enjoyed, perhaps you would be more willing to invest *your* time and money in helping him to pursue the former?

At 7-12 years old?  That is nuts.  13-14 then maybe.  15 -18 for sure.  You do realize that the money it takes to play junior golf would pay for college on its own?  Especially on the male side of golf where there is very little money.  4.5 scholarships per 10+ man teams for D1.  DII gets 3.6 and can only offer at most to each kid 50%.  High school male golfers have a 1.8% chance of playing D1 golf.  

Athletics are not a good investment for college. Youth athletics are NOT about going to college.  Those that think it is are living vicariously through their kids.

Edited by heavy_hitter, 05 December 2017 - 04:50 PM.


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#48 CTgolf

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 05:01 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 05 December 2017 - 04:41 PM, said:

View PostCTgolf, on 05 December 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 05 December 2017 - 02:09 PM, said:

As a general thumb
D1 270+
D2 260+

It isn’t a long drive competition.  You have to put the ball in the hole.  

One of the problems with youth sports in this country is parents trying to put kids into college on athletic prowess at an early age.  I don’t understand people trying to equate the success of 11 year olds with moving them on to college.  Just let them have fun and play.  If it happens it happens.

Driving the ball 280 at 14 or shooting -4 at 11 doesn’t hive anyone the chance of playing college golf.  You don’t know their swing, you don’t know their disposition on the course, you don’t know their grades.  

Why can’t kids play youth sports without labeling them as college prospects?

Thanks HH

I would argue simple economics (scarce resources - be it time, money or both - so need to allocate them as best possible) could be one reason people are trying to project forward

If your son had two passions that he enjoyed equally, yet one had the potential to help him in the future (by helping in college admissions, getting a scholarship, or even professional aspirations) and the other was merely a “nice hobby” he enjoyed, perhaps you would be more willing to invest *your* time and money in helping him to pursue the former?

At 7-12 years old?  That is nuts.  13-14 then maybe.  15 -18 for sure.  You do realize that the money it takes to play junior golf would pay for college on its own?  Especially on the male side of golf where there is very little money.  4.5 scholarships per 10+ man teams for D1.  DII gets 3.6 and can only offer at most to each kid 50%.  High school male golfers have a 1.8% chance of playing D1 golf.  

Athletics are not a good investment for college. Youth athletics are NOT about going to college.  Those that think it is are living vicariously through their kids.

No one is claiming it is an “investment” with a defined or potential payout based on initial or recurring outlay

Everyone is making choices in life based on a whole bunch of factors - presumably with the ultimate goal of maximizing happiness (or at least one’s perception of what will bring happiness)

I find people as a whole to generally be rational actors maximizing their utility (or utility of their kids)

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#49 CTgolf

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 05:04 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 05 December 2017 - 04:41 PM, said:

View PostCTgolf, on 05 December 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 05 December 2017 - 02:09 PM, said:

As a general thumb
D1 270+
D2 260+

It isn’t a long drive competition.  You have to put the ball in the hole.  

One of the problems with youth sports in this country is parents trying to put kids into college on athletic prowess at an early age.  I don’t understand people trying to equate the success of 11 year olds with moving them on to college.  Just let them have fun and play.  If it happens it happens.

Driving the ball 280 at 14 or shooting -4 at 11 doesn’t hive anyone the chance of playing college golf.  You don’t know their swing, you don’t know their disposition on the course, you don’t know their grades.  

Why can’t kids play youth sports without labeling them as college prospects?

Thanks HH

I would argue simple economics (scarce resources - be it time, money or both - so need to allocate them as best possible) could be one reason people are trying to project forward

If your son had two passions that he enjoyed equally, yet one had the potential to help him in the future (by helping in college admissions, getting a scholarship, or even professional aspirations) and the other was merely a “nice hobby” he enjoyed, perhaps you would be more willing to invest *your* time and money in helping him to pursue the former?

At 7-12 years old?  That is nuts.  13-14 then maybe.  15 -18 for sure.  You do realize that the money it takes to play junior golf would pay for college on its own?  Especially on the male side of golf where there is very little money.  4.5 scholarships per 10+ man teams for D1.  DII gets 3.6 and can only offer at most to each kid 50%.  High school male golfers have a 1.8% chance of playing D1 golf.  

Athletics are not a good investment for college. Youth athletics are NOT about going to college.  Those that think it is are living vicariously through their kids.

I would also add that there are A LOT of parents who would (and do) write large checks to help their children get into certain colleges

There is unquestionably value to “access” - perhaps the only part that is subjective is the value of it for each individual

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#50 heavy_hitter

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 05:48 PM

View PostCTgolf, on 05 December 2017 - 05:01 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 05 December 2017 - 04:41 PM, said:

View PostCTgolf, on 05 December 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 05 December 2017 - 02:09 PM, said:

As a general thumb
D1 270+
D2 260+

It isn‚„t a long drive competition.  You have to put the ball in the hole.  

One of the problems with youth sports in this country is parents trying to put kids into college on athletic prowess at an early age.  I don‚„t understand people trying to equate the success of 11 year olds with moving them on to college.  Just let them have fun and play.  If it happens it happens.

Driving the ball 280 at 14 or shooting -4 at 11 doesn‚„t hive anyone the chance of playing college golf.  You don‚„t know their swing, you don‚„t know their disposition on the course, you don‚„t know their grades.  

Why can‚„t kids play youth sports without labeling them as college prospects?

Thanks HH

I would argue simple economics (scarce resources - be it time, money or both - so need to allocate them as best possible) could be one reason people are trying to project forward

If your son had two passions that he enjoyed equally, yet one had the potential to help him in the future (by helping in college admissions, getting a scholarship, or even professional aspirations) and the other was merely a €œnice hobby€ he enjoyed, perhaps you would be more willing to invest *your* time and money in helping him to pursue the former?

At 7-12 years old?  That is nuts.  13-14 then maybe.  15 -18 for sure.  You do realize that the money it takes to play junior golf would pay for college on its own?  Especially on the male side of golf where there is very little money.  4.5 scholarships per 10+ man teams for D1.  DII gets 3.6 and can only offer at most to each kid 50%.  High school male golfers have a 1.8% chance of playing D1 golf.  

Athletics are not a good investment for college. Youth athletics are NOT about going to college.  Those that think it is are living vicariously through their kids.

No one is claiming it is an “investment” with a defined or potential payout based on initial or recurring outlay

Everyone is making choices in life based on a whole bunch of factors - presumably with the ultimate goal of maximizing happiness (or at least one’s perception of what will bring happiness)

I find people as a whole to generally be rational actors maximizing their utility (or utility of their kids)

Spin.....  zoom zoom


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#51 BeerPerHole

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 03:56 PM

View PostQEight, on 05 December 2017 - 02:31 AM, said:

View PostBeerPerHole, on 04 December 2017 - 08:32 PM, said:

I don't understand the angst here on this. Perhaps my use of the word "ringer" triggers some.

So why did you use that word?
...Probably the strangest comment I've ever seen in a thread I've started. It's possible people have a different definition of that word(?)
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#52 buckeyefl

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:36 AM

View Postgolfer55082, on 05 December 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

View Postbuckeyefl, on 05 December 2017 - 03:42 PM, said:

View Postgolfer55082, on 05 December 2017 - 03:02 PM, said:

My observation / suspicion is that if a kid hit puberty at 12-13, his swing speed will not increase much after 14.  If he cannot hit 280+ at 14, the chance for him to become a long hitter is slim.  Sure there are always outliers to any rule, but this is my observation by looking at the growth pattern of a few golfers.

Your suspicion would be wrong as it is far from universal. Take what you said and apply it to other sports and then contemplate what you are suggesting.

I never said it’s a universal rule. Golf is different from many these “other sports” in your mind. The power is from hips turn which calls for flexibility, which deteriorates as one ages.

So at 15 hip flexibility goes out the window?

Universal or not your premise is simply wrong and there are literally millions of examples why.

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#53 joey2aces

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:39 AM

what makes him a ringer? I guess I don't get that part. I was waiting for a betting story.... :dntknw:

ETA: and no... there are no other definitions or meanings to the word except for horseshoes, a crowbar, marbles and a dude with a bell.

Edited by joey2aces, 07 December 2017 - 09:42 AM.

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#54 golfer55082

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:27 PM

View Postbuckeyefl, on 07 December 2017 - 09:36 AM, said:

View Postgolfer55082, on 05 December 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

View Postbuckeyefl, on 05 December 2017 - 03:42 PM, said:

View Postgolfer55082, on 05 December 2017 - 03:02 PM, said:

My observation / suspicion is that if a kid hit puberty at 12-13, his swing speed will not increase much after 14.  If he cannot hit 280+ at 14, the chance for him to become a long hitter is slim.  Sure there are always outliers to any rule, but this is my observation by looking at the growth pattern of a few golfers.

Your suspicion would be wrong as it is far from universal. Take what you said and apply it to other sports and then contemplate what you are suggesting.

I never said it’s a universal rule. Golf is different from many these “other sports” in your mind. The power is from hips turn which calls for flexibility, which deteriorates as one ages.

So at 15 hip flexibility goes out the window?

Universal or not your premise is simply wrong and there are literally millions of examples why.
Let me tell you that I really hope you are right on this. I have skin in the game. My theory/suspicion is more of an explanation to a concern by looking at a few junior golfers who peaked  at 14-15 and did not pan out.

Edited by golfer55082, 07 December 2017 - 01:32 PM.


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#55 BeerPerHole

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:33 PM

View Postjoey2aces, on 07 December 2017 - 09:39 AM, said:

what makes him a ringer? I guess I don't get that part.


To some people it means "very, very good".

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#56 wildcatden

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:44 PM

Note to self: Be wary of your use of adjectives here on GolfWRX.

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#57 kekoa

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:48 PM

View Postwildcatden, on 07 December 2017 - 03:44 PM, said:

Note to self: Be wary of your use of adjectives here on GolfWRX.

+ 1,000,000,000,000

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#58 leezer99

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:57 PM

View Postkekoa, on 07 December 2017 - 03:48 PM, said:

View Postwildcatden, on 07 December 2017 - 03:44 PM, said:

Note to self: Be wary of your use of adjectives here on GolfWRX.

+ 1,000,000,000,000

Here I was thinking a Ringer was someone that was just a huge Tolkien fan.

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#59 BeerPerHole

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:13 PM

I have used the term "killer" to describe a coworker who is extremely effective. Man!...I'm glad I didn't use that one here.

Thanks for the laugh, guys...
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#60 heavy_hitter

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:29 PM

View PostBeerPerHole, on 07 December 2017 - 05:13 PM, said:

I have used the term "killer" to describe a coworker who is extremely effective. Man!...I'm glad I didn't use that one here.

Thanks for the laugh, guys...

That would have been a better term than ringer....lol


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